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Overcomplicated, Bane of Warframe


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As complex as improvement is, and as grindy, the actual gameplay feels like the same old same after making it through earth. Enemy variation is nonexistent and making aw gear so weak just to justify using rj was a bad idea imo. I was really enjoying it but once i hit saturn and saw little to no change i was saddened. And then i played a higher level mission with a galleon to infiltrate and it was exactly like a normal missions assassination with a new looking enemy that died before it could show me anything i hadnt already seen. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Clowee said:

I'm not displeased that they are adding a bunch of new content, but I am a bit displeased that the game experience has changed so much over time and it's actually kept me away from playing lately because it's just too annoying to keep up with.

I don't know if I'm the only one, but I don't want to have to learn an entire new "thing" every update.  I just play to log in, kill stuff for a while, and log out.  Sure, I can still do this, but now everybody is rail jacking, Kuva Liching, Orb-whatever, Requim fissuring, zookeeping and who knows what else.  If you take a serious break for a month or two, catching up just becomes a chore.  This means that trying to get a good old ODD stomp going on gets harder and harder with each new thing added.

I miss the more simpler times when banging out 20-40 mindless waves of a T3D accompanied by some tunes and a good bottle of something was a viable way to kill some time with this game.  I have no interest in any of this new stuff, and it's diluting the pool of violent old dinosaurs like myself 😞

Absolutely nothing has taken away the core violence you're talking about.  Go and kill and have fun!  There are just more variations on that same thing and different directions of advancement if you want to pursue them.  It's not all perfect, but virtually every activity in game is advancing you in some direction, and it virtually always boils down to going somewhere and murdering the hordes who are there with your awesome space ninja wizardry.

If railjack doesn't interest you, just ignore it for now!  Especially if you've been away there's sooooooooooooo much else to do that's still the same satisfying murder it ever was.

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23 minutes ago, moondog548 said:

Absolutely nothing has taken away the core violence you're talking about.  Go and kill and have fun!  There are just more variations on that same thing and different directions of advancement if you want to pursue them.  It's not all perfect, but virtually every activity in game is advancing you in some direction, and it virtually always boils down to going somewhere and murdering the hordes who are there with your awesome space ninja wizardry.

If railjack doesn't interest you, just ignore it for now!  Especially if you've been away there's sooooooooooooo much else to do that's still the same satisfying murder it ever was.

Well it's not satisfying is what the problem is and there's less of it the more they add.

I am a fan of jumping on, finding an endless, and mowing monsters.  It used to be, before spectres of the rail, that I could just shout for what I wanted to run with my limited playtime, find a group, and go.  Now, I have to hope what I want to play is even available otherwise there's no real reward for doing it other than another copy of pressure point.  It takes a lot longer to find a group, and the groups don't stay as long because they want to hit a day/night cycle or something.  There's been a gradual decline in the quality and value of the time I spend on Warframe because there's so much to do that I don't really want to do.  It's gone from mindless fun to reading a 1990's computer manual every patch.

I'm not saying all changes have been bad and that the game shouldn't advance, but the mindless fun factor has gone way down if your the type who just wants to smash some stuff for 45 min or an hour and log off.  Sometimes 30 minutes of that is spent trying to find like-minded individuals who aren't too busy with one of the 10 billion things there are now to do in the game. 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Clowee said:

Well it's not satisfying is what the problem is and there's less of it the more they add.

I am a fan of jumping on, finding an endless, and mowing monsters.  It used to be, before spectres of the rail, that I could just shout for what I wanted to run with my limited playtime, find a group, and go.  Now, I have to hope what I want to play is even available otherwise there's no real reward for doing it other than another copy of pressure point.  It takes a lot longer to find a group, and the groups don't stay as long because they want to hit a day/night cycle or something.  There's been a gradual decline in the quality and value of the time I spend on Warframe because there's so much to do that I don't really want to do.  It's gone from mindless fun to reading a 1990's computer manual every patch.

I'm not saying all changes have been bad and that the game shouldn't advance, but the mindless fun factor has gone way down if your the type who just wants to smash some stuff for 45 min or an hour and log off.  Sometimes 30 minutes of that is spent trying to find like-minded individuals who aren't too busy with one of the 10 billion things there are now to do in the game. 

 

 

Sorry, but I don't understand.  Endless Sanctuary Onslaught, Arbitrations, 2 Dark Sectors per planet, and the new Disruption nodes are exactly what you say you can't do.   Is the problem that you feel the need to pre-con a squad instead of pugging?

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If the game gets more punishing and complex,
then it would seem DE listened to some of it's fanbase.
People have been saying for ages that the game is braindead and easy.
Maybe this is the start of a change of course against that trend.
Whatever the case OP, I hope future updates offer something more pleasing.
If there are any ideas to improve the system that come up between you and your friend,
by all means, keep us posted.

Lich didn't hit all the pressing points that players wanted addressed, but they hit a few at least.
Can't get those small wins without the community feeding each other's concepts and imaginations.
Best of luck.

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On 2019-12-13 at 7:34 PM, DrBorris said:

Cumbersome? Sure, I guess, although another way to interpret that is depth. I can understand this though.

Complexity and depth are two different things, though. You can load a game with overcomplicated mechanics, yet still have it be incredibly shallow if all of that information overhead fails to provide varied gameplay or meaningful choices. As it stands, many of the complications of Railjack not only feel unnecessary, but sometimes reductive to gameplay, as the whole forge and fire mechanics are a key reason why people hate to stay on their Railjack, itself necessary because enemies scaling against a pointless power progression system prevent Railjacks from truly going into combat. Really, the core concept of Railjack is space exploration and combat, which would normally be easy to understand, and was what DE marketed with what has now proven to be an almost entirely fake Tennocon demo. Railjack does not need to be about pointless ship busywork or being prevented from progressing at an organic pace, simply because one doesn't have the MK3 items to deal with overstatted, regenerating enemies. In fact, cutting down on all of this pointless complexity would likely benefit the mode overall, as it's already turned off many players simply because of all the crap it's been saddled with, in addition to its rocky balance and many technical issues.

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2 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Complexity and depth are two different things, though. You can load a game with overcomplicated mechanics, yet still have it be incredibly shallow if all of that information overhead fails to provide varied gameplay or meaningful choices. As it stands, many of the complications of Railjack not only feel unnecessary, but sometimes reductive to gameplay, as the whole forge and fire mechanics are a key reason why people hate to stay on their Railjack, itself necessary because enemies scaling against a pointless power progression system prevent Railjacks from truly going into combat. Really, the core concept of Railjack is space exploration and combat, which would normally be easy to understand, and was what DE marketed with what has now proven to be an almost entirely fake Tennocon demo. Railjack does not need to be about pointless ship busywork or being prevented from progressing at an organic pace, simply because one doesn't have the MK3 items to deal with overstatted, regenerating enemies. In fact, cutting down on all of this pointless complexity would likely benefit the mode overall, as it's already turned off many players simply because of all the crap it's been saddled with, in addition to its rocky balance and many technical issues.

But here's the thing though, it doesn't feel over-complicated to me. To me it just feels deep. And that is not a "git gud", it is just... what I like, and you like what you like. I actually really enjoy the forge mechanics and think that the entire Railjack experience would suffer greatly if it were removed (as it has a lot of tendril effects on every aspect of Railjack). If DE were to remove all of the "pointless" complexity than the mode would, in my opinion, be less fun. I like that there is always something to do and what you are doing varies so wildly.

The complexity to avionics, balancing mission objectives, and the differences between the manufacturers is all there for a reason and are what make your choices meaningful. The Avionics grid alone is a system that will lead to a whole new world of build diversity and is probably the single best designed thing DE has released in years (mechanically at least, the UI is questionable).

 

I get it, making something complicated doesn't make it deep, I just believe that this form of complexity does make it deep. If the mode was able to be grasped in its entirety immediately I very much believe that it would have considerably less staying power.

 

Side note, the problems with the equipment progression (not Avionics) is not as much a problem with complexity as it is a problem with progression. Equipment is rather simple, it is just implemented extremely poorly (this is the biggest issue with Railjack outside bugs imo).

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I got some awesome tactical mods to help reduce forge cooldown and put out fires. I searched the entire ship for some kind of tactical console when I desperately needed to use them! Didn't see anything obvious for triggering these mods. It turns out you have to press 'L'? How is anyone supposed to figure that out? Pressing random keys? Fine if it's like a console like the guns, forge and pilot seat. Not fine if you need to magically know keyboard shortcuts to access a feature (what, you have to look at keybindings for this? seriously?).

That's Primed Bane of Warframe for sure.

Edited by nslay
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On 2019-12-14 at 4:49 AM, Zakual said:

I still don't see whats complicated about anything there in the notes. Either you didn't want to read it and just posted it to say "hey look at all these words I dont wanna read but it looks complicated!" or you're legitimately confused about something specific because the only thing that isn't really fleshed out in the entire thing is the explanation of certain interactions via intrinsic levels.... thats it... I really dont understand how any of this is complicated lol

👍

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On 2019-12-13 at 2:26 PM, Atekron said:

try to explain railjack to a friend who does not follow all DE's streams. yeah, good luck

You use a spaceship to go shoot bad guys in space, loot their wreckage, and repair the broken parts you pick up so you can use them on your ship. Pretty simple and easy to describe bro.

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In anything, forcing yourself to learn something you are not interested with or worst, do not enjoy doing is just wasting time. I was a Freelancer nut back then, so space games is like home to me. Now all of Veil is my newest romping ground because I had chaotic fun with all the random crews I fought with.

IMHO, Railjacks biggest contribution to the game is not even Railjack itself but Intrinsics. it is a genius way of earning "space cred" as a "Railjacker." Just give your best effort in any situation even when the mission eventually fails and you will still be compensated. It is the only thing you still have with you after failing so you come back stronger the next time you leave your dock.

Everything you do not see between the dotted line, you can test drive in our space simulacrum at your own leisure in Free flight. Too much hand holding is generally looked down upon in any game, so why should this game differ. in fact, one quick read of [DE]Megan's release notes is enough info already if you apply it with practice.

Edited by Alpha_Tango
damn phone keys...
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Here's the problem as I see it, DE has given the Railjack enough duty positions for a small attack vessel in the range of a modern corvette. But unfortunately it only has a crew of 4. IMO with the small amount of playtime I have in it, it needs some kind of automated evasive maneuvers, an automated ship repair system and automated secondary weapons. If the cephalons can't do it, bring in NPCs to handle the tasks. Leave the players the role of combat without resorting to hiding the Railjack and taking to Archwing.

And releasing it in a rush just so it could be done on the game awards show was...well, it wasn't optimal. 

Isn't there someone at DE who can say "That idea sucks, let's NOT do that!".

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7 minutes ago, 3rdpig said:

And releasing it in a rush just so it could be done on the game awards show was...well, it wasn't optimal. 

Longest dry season in Warframe history ends: Playerbase asks "Why did you give us content too soon?"

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Im not denying you, but its a co-op game in its title. And to be honest, DE has given us solo opportunity and experience for us since 2012 despite the co-op concept. Now they need something to truly brings the co-op experience, hence all different roles in railjack and systematic planning before flight. But yeah, they need to add rewarding feels after mission and fixing bugs. Sorry if im being rude.

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