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Caine2112

Railjack fails on Day 1

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Good evening Tennos.

As much as I was seriously looking forward to Railjack, unfortunately, it fails right out of the dry dock.

Where to start?

Well, playing the first lowliest level mission is brutally difficult even in a squad because resources to build things in-mission are practically non-existant, and resource you have collected OUTSIDE space missions HAVE to be built beforehand.  This needs to be changed so that ALL resources collected, whether in space missions or ground missions, are in ONE pool of resources.

Secondly, the WHOLE concept of manually repairing the ship with the omni tool is a colossal chore that should never have been even place on the design board.  In an age of truly advanced technology, did the cephalons forget how to operate an automated repair system???  Get rid of this terrible omni tool idea and implement an automated repair system.  I'm fine if the Engineer needs to keep omnigel (or whatever it's called) supplied, but FFS get rid of manual repairs.  Or at the very least, have these no-name NPCs do it.  Isn't that the point of having NPC crew anyways?

Third, being swarmed constantly by never ending waves of fighters that spawn right on top of you kills your new ship pratically instantly, and keep in mind that this is on the LOWBIE mission.  I can't even imagine if you go to a tougher mission.  Space these waves out and have them spawn FAR away so that they need to close the distance to the current fight for a level of realism at least.

Fourth, and this is a BIG ONE.  Aiming your cannons with the mouse should not instantly move the ship left or right.  Let there be some dead zone so you can actually aim at fighters in order to better shoot them down.  And dear gods, where the hell is my missile tracking?  Dumbfire missiles?  Seriously?  Why am I spending a ton of resources on dumbfire missiles that do next to no damage to large ships?  And these are level 2 ships?

DE, you released Railjack WAY too soon.  It's in a state of mission failure ad nauseum.  How can we possibly progress if we can't even keep the resources we loot because every mission ends in failure because our ship can't take any sort of punishment, AND we obtain zero resources needed to fix the damn thing?

I have tried 10, count them TEN, missions with my brother, and ALL of them end in failure.  Whether we try to fight the enemy ships with the Railjack or use our Archwings, or combos of both, EVERY mission ended in failure because NO RESOURCES drop from kills.  And the Omni Tool needing omnigel, which you can't make in mission, the ones we could make before the mission got spent SO QUICKLY we couldn't even keep up with repairs.

 

TL;DR:  Railjack, in this broken state, is NOT FUN.  It is another endless chore that ends in constant mission failure because the mechanics and resources needed to make this FUN are NOT THERE.  Railjack needs to be seriously taken back to the drawing board.  Hopefully, it'll be a game system that might be fun come this Spring.  For Xmas, I'll play Battletech while I wait.

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Well DE take community feedback they will fix it with time dont sress about it but yeah it haz problems but its new so they will 100% fix it 

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Dude, we jumped into a naked, non upgraded railjack and failed the first mission. Won the second. Then upgraded almost everything we had after the 5th.

2 people are not enough. You might want to actually form a crew, or play it public.

It´s doable and it´s not even that hard after putting some points into gunnery, piloting etc., so you speed up the process.

You´re mad - I see and understand, but don´t try to fly a ship with 2 people that is designed for 4.

 

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vor 7 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Hikuro-93:

I'd be more concerned if it failed week 2 tbh. That's what unpolished content is expected to do, for better or worse.

I know that bugs were to be expected, but honestly. I get stuck so much in grineer ships, get stuck in loading screens. My railjack doesnt spawn in my dojo and so many more that it is , for me at least, not fun to play, since i always have to hope that i dont get stuck somewhere.

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1 minute ago, realBiONiC said:

I know that bugs were to be expected, but honestly. I get stuck so much in grineer ships, get stuck in loading screens. My railjack doesnt spawn in my dojo and so many more that it is , for me at least, not fun to play, since i always have to hope that i dont get stuck somewhere.

Yup. I remember this very kind of game breaking bugs during pretty much all flagship releases, like PoE, Fortuna, War Within, etc.

Thankfully enough you can be sure DE will release a preliminary hotfix very soon to adress the worst issues.

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Gerade eben schrieb (PS4)Hikuro-93:

Yup. I remember this very kind of game breaking bugs during pretty much all flagship releases, like PoE, Fortuna, War Within, etc.

Thankfully enough you can be sure DE will release a preliminary hotfix very soon to adress the worst issues.

I just ask myself, how are these gamebraking bugs not discovered beforehand?

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Been playing through the missions on Earth with my brother today and it's really not that hard. We had a couple fails at first, but as you learn how things work, it's very managable with a 2 man crew. Got plenty of resources and points to upgrade and unlock abilities before we move on to next planet. I was mostly piloting and keeping the ship patched up while my brother was mostly outside taking care of the bigger ships. 

And no you don't need to spend resources during the missions at this level. Just the Omni, but that's practically nothing. It will likely be more important later on, but by then I imagine resources won't be a problem. 

Also, there is actually a Tactical Avionic that can put out fires through the Tactical menu. There are plenty of QoL upgrades coming later. 

 

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5 hours ago, realBiONiC said:

I just ask myself, how are these gamebraking bugs not discovered beforehand?

simple, DE doesn't have the hundreds of thousands of players to TEST THE GAME. They are a small company. Its a damn good thing they can pump out hotfixes based on PLAYER feedback as quick as they can (consoles not withstanding ofc, but they DO get a more polished version due to PC player's TESTING things and breaking things on purpose (or accident)

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5 hours ago, realBiONiC said:

I just ask myself, how are these gamebraking bugs not discovered beforehand?

From what I can tell:

1. Probably not enough players in the beta program.

2. They don't even have a proper open issue/bug tracking suite deployed. Maybe internally, but what use is that, really? Well, good for a ToDo/feature list, I guess.

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You can solo several of the early missions. Amesha bubble to protect your hull. Imperator v to take out fodder. Rush to crew ships, destroy the cores and head back to dog fight. You also get a whole minute to fix your ship once its critical. You dont just instasplode. 

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I've played the first two missions solo, and only failed once because I tried to Archwing only. Every success has come from within the Railjack, and with good aiming and good dodging. If you can't far away from the crewship to fly to it in Archwing to take it out from the inside, then slip in behind them and take out their engines. Then just drop in, take out the reactor and slip out.

Also in terms of bugs all I've managed to see was my cat multiplying and my warframe multiplying. Nothing game breaking so far. Smooth sailing across the board.

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I'm also doing it Solo so far but I'm sure I'm going to get reemed soon before finishing off the few earth missions left.

I hear your concerns on some of it but you'll find the more you play it you'll get a feel for it. Be tactical and park your railjack in cosy spot in the level go out with an archwing with a shield and just board the bigger ships take control of it then start shooting down all the fighters, when you see other big ship park near to it and on the way out blow up the reactor make sure to break all the crates to get resources, head to second ship shoot all the fighters.

On the way out blow up the reactor, go back to your ship kick off any enemy borders, defuse the bomb put out the fires fly around a bit and you'll find resources to pick up and blow up everything with your guns, it's amazing what is lying around after a battle..

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Have to admit, my first experience was a mixed bag. Several mission fails (playing as a duo with my missus) and several bugs and crashes. Things like being unable to interact with stuff on ship, my railjack going AWOL and leaving the ship to ho into archwing, only for archwing to not fire up and falling to the bottom of the map and being unable to do anything (I got some cool screenshots from that one)

Once we got through the first mission I can say I enjoyed myself. We chased off the Grineer and then went exploring and looting. We'll probably rerun the first node a few times to stock up on stuff before deciding on what to upgrade and progress.

Thing is DE doesn't have a public test realm like Diabo 3 does where people opt in to try new content and find out the bugs before it goes main, and given how people scream like pteradactyls about there being no content they're between a rock and a hard place on that one.

But I know things will get better and most of the bugs will get ironed out

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Wouldja look at that. Another Tenno who tried the new thing once, wasn't handed an easy win and declared this thing a failure instead of realizing what was going on.

This is a whole new ballpark of content, and we're all starting in on the ground floor. I know we're all used to being at the middle/end of our Warframe progression with all the power and capability, but with Empyrean we are at the start of a progression, so we're gonna be weak and we'll need to claw our way upward, accruing upgrades and customizations to make ourselves stronger. Earn our power.

And the earning isn't even that hard. I've been playing Empyrean off and on for just a day, and I already have double the base Health on my Railjack and well over 1500 Armor. Where my ship used to get into critical condition every minute against Level 5 fighters, now it's getting there maybe once or twice a mission versus Level 20 fighters.

Yes, there are bugs. Yes, connecting to other players can be spotty. It's Warframe. But Empyrean is doing just fine. You just gotta recall that we're starting at essentially Level 1 here. DE will probably make changes and adjustments in the near future, but I'm hoping they keep this earned progression scheme and don't cave to players whining that their easy power fantasy isn't instantly theirs.

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Apart from the bug the railjack system till now,have been promising to me... It is the first rime DE put something in the game, which makes ot more traditional roleplaying multiplayer games (different players focusing differently in the skill tree). And that is a good thing.

Bugs are a problem. Which i reckon is due to the fact they have shipped out the content maybe a week early. The thing is,for so many so called long term players,it looks like,very few do appreciate the fact DE patch things real real quick. So given the track record, Empyrean wont be different.

Finally the difficulty curve. The mode actually is tough, in the sense of enemy level,complexity as well as co ordination. Now that sjould not be a bad thing.... Having mission failed a few times,( not due to technical fails) is not a bad thing,rather good....many of us in warframe,have become press-4-brain-dead-zombie. Now having smething which requires some thinking,and execution is good.....

All it requires to be successful,to see,where de goes from here...its not a bad platform unlike kuva lich es.....lets just wait and give de the benefit of doubt

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10 hours ago, Caine2112 said:

Good evening Tennos.

As much as I was seriously looking forward to Railjack, unfortunately, it fails right out of the dry dock.

Where to start?

Well, playing the first lowliest level mission is brutally difficult even in a squad because resources to build things in-mission are practically non-existant, and resource you have collected OUTSIDE space missions HAVE to be built beforehand.  This needs to be changed so that ALL resources collected, whether in space missions or ground missions, are in ONE pool of resources.

Secondly, the WHOLE concept of manually repairing the ship with the omni tool is a colossal chore that should never have been even place on the design board.  In an age of truly advanced technology, did the cephalons forget how to operate an automated repair system???  Get rid of this terrible omni tool idea and implement an automated repair system.  I'm fine if the Engineer needs to keep omnigel (or whatever it's called) supplied, but FFS get rid of manual repairs.  Or at the very least, have these no-name NPCs do it.  Isn't that the point of having NPC crew anyways?

Third, being swarmed constantly by never ending waves of fighters that spawn right on top of you kills your new ship pratically instantly, and keep in mind that this is on the LOWBIE mission.  I can't even imagine if you go to a tougher mission.  Space these waves out and have them spawn FAR away so that they need to close the distance to the current fight for a level of realism at least.

Fourth, and this is a BIG ONE.  Aiming your cannons with the mouse should not instantly move the ship left or right.  Let there be some dead zone so you can actually aim at fighters in order to better shoot them down.  And dear gods, where the hell is my missile tracking?  Dumbfire missiles?  Seriously?  Why am I spending a ton of resources on dumbfire missiles that do next to no damage to large ships?  And these are level 2 ships?

DE, you released Railjack WAY too soon.  It's in a state of mission failure ad nauseum.  How can we possibly progress if we can't even keep the resources we loot because every mission ends in failure because our ship can't take any sort of punishment, AND we obtain zero resources needed to fix the damn thing?

I have tried 10, count them TEN, missions with my brother, and ALL of them end in failure.  Whether we try to fight the enemy ships with the Railjack or use our Archwings, or combos of both, EVERY mission ended in failure because NO RESOURCES drop from kills.  And the Omni Tool needing omnigel, which you can't make in mission, the ones we could make before the mission got spent SO QUICKLY we couldn't even keep up with repairs.

 

TL;DR:  Railjack, in this broken state, is NOT FUN.  It is another endless chore that ends in constant mission failure because the mechanics and resources needed to make this FUN are NOT THERE.  Railjack needs to be seriously taken back to the drawing board.  Hopefully, it'll be a game system that might be fun come this Spring.  For Xmas, I'll play Battletech while I wait.

1. Railjack is intended for full squads, so yes, the difficulty was dialed up. That said, I agree that it is ridiculous for even the first area to shred you right out of the gate.

2. I can't disagree with an auto-repair system. However, NPC crew is gated behind the Command Intrinsic, which isn't due until sometime next year.

3. Agreed... however, with the recent hotfix, the number of fighters that spawns in goes down as the kill objective is met... further, if you have a couple teammates, hijacking a crewship gives you access to its' homing salvo launcher, which has proven devastatingly effective against fighters. Unfortunately, with even low-level crewship possessing over 6,000 Hull, it's almost impossible to kill them from the outside.

4.More agreement all around... the mobility could use a bit of reworking... and yes, dumbfire missiles was rather dumb, pun unintended... unless they're meant for dealing with emplaced defenses like the Cannon Batteries you can find scattered across the various missions.

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9 hours ago, realBiONiC said:

I just ask myself, how are these gamebraking bugs not discovered beforehand?

honestly i believe that a lot of them are known to happen before in the development process, i think what it comes down to is the version control. You know an animator works on one thing, set dresser works on another, sound team on another, mission logic programmers on another and when they get combined they create issues. So what ends up happening is those issues get sorted out but everyone is working on different versions of the same game so when they put those versions back together some old bugs that were already fixed slip back into the development.

i think the main reason for the hotfixes being so fast to fix the problems is now they have a live version of the game that is the most up to date instead of working on project files that are months old and no one remembers how they worked together before. And the fact that its likely mainly programmers working on the bugs NOT all the other departments so its alot easier to coordinate version control.

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10 hours ago, Caine2112 said:

1 Well, playing the first lowliest level mission is brutally difficult even in a squad because resources to build things in-mission are practically non-existant, and resource you have collected OUTSIDE space missions HAVE to be built beforehand.  This needs to be changed so that ALL resources collected, whether in space missions or ground missions, are in ONE pool of resources.

2. Secondly, the WHOLE concept of manually repairing the ship with the omni tool is a colossal chore that should never have been even place on the design board.  In an age of truly advanced technology, did the cephalons forget how to operate an automated repair system???  Get rid of this terrible omni tool idea and implement an automated repair system.  I'm fine if the Engineer needs to keep omnigel (or whatever it's called) supplied, but FFS get rid of manual repairs.  Or at the very least, have these no-name NPCs do it.  Isn't that the point of having NPC crew anyways?

3. Third, being swarmed constantly by never ending waves of fighters that spawn right on top of you kills your new ship pratically instantly, and keep in mind that this is on the LOWBIE mission.  I can't even imagine if you go to a tougher mission.  Space these waves out and have them spawn FAR away so that they need to close the distance to the current fight for a level of realism at least.

4. Fourth, and this is a BIG ONE.  Aiming your cannons with the mouse should not instantly move the ship left or right.  Let there be some dead zone so you can actually aim at fighters in order to better shoot them down.  And dear gods, where the hell is my missile tracking?  Dumbfire missiles?  Seriously?  Why am I spending a ton of resources on dumbfire missiles that do next to no damage to large ships?  And these are level 2 ships?

5. DE, you released Railjack WAY too soon.  It's in a state of mission failure ad nauseum.  How can we possibly progress if we can't even keep the resources we loot because every mission ends in failure because our ship can't take any sort of punishment, AND we obtain zero resources needed to fix the damn thing?

I have tried 10, count them TEN, missions with my brother, and ALL of them end in failure.  Whether we try to fight the enemy ships with the Railjack or use our Archwings, or combos of both, EVERY mission ended in failure because NO RESOURCES drop from kills.  And the Omni Tool needing omnigel, which you can't make in mission, the ones we could make before the mission got spent SO QUICKLY we couldn't even keep up with repairs.

 

TL;DR:  Railjack, in this broken state, is NOT FUN.  It is another endless chore that ends in constant mission failure because the mechanics and resources needed to make this FUN are NOT THERE.  Railjack needs to be seriously taken back to the drawing board.  Hopefully, it'll be a game system that might be fun come this Spring.  For Xmas, I'll play Battletech while I wait.

1. Yes, finally, some content that has a semblance of difficulty. I was so pleasanly surprised that I actually had to do something in order to be victorious in missions. It's very pleasant and rewarding. And if your pool of outside resources was added to your railjack inventory, it would all -sigh- again, be piss easy. If that were to happen, the only thing you would have to do is just have someone spam the resource making process and again, all content would be practically without any chance of you failing at all. 
If you don't like difficulty, that's fine, but a lot of people like a challenge, and I'm sure if you stick with this and actually upgrade your starter ship you might see things aren't as bad. And as other people have said, don't play something intended for a full squad with 2 people and expect it to be as easy as playing Saryn in regular missions. 

2. Again, you want everything to be easy and effortless. While that is a valid opinion, I could only really recommend you to play non-Railjack content, if you like that better. And I'm sure there will be NPCs at some point to do it for you. I, for one, like the stress of having to actually pay attention to what is going on, and make decision, such as; "Do I fix the hull first or do I have enough time to take out that crew ship first?"

3. No. Again, it doesn't have to be easy.

4. This is actually the only thing that's debatable. I can get behind you disliking the way the ship moves when aiming the front cannons, however, maybe this is an indication that you're more of a side-gunner, instead of a pilot? Also, missile tracking works just fine, and you'd have noticed that if you took the time to look at what was going on. When targeting enemies, do you see that additional reticule made out of 4 small triangles around enemy ships? When those are locked on, then your missile tracking is ready and functional, and it will work properly. Give the missile time to lock on.

5. Constant mission failure? Good. Players finally have something that they will need to learn and master, and I'm so glad DE finally released something that requires actual cooperation in a co-op game. It's not that the missions can't be beat, players will simply need to pay attention and learn new mechanics.

In general, your concept of fun seems to revolve around effortlessly blasting your way through hordes of enemies without a chance of failure, and if that is the case, this is still the best game for you, because 99% of all content in Warframe is exactly like that. Maybe just hold off on Railjack for now until they introduce the NPC crews they are currently working on?

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10 hours ago, Caine2112 said:

Well, playing the first lowliest level mission is brutally difficult

It's entirely possible to solo lowest level mission chief. I did it several times. You can easily solo pretty much anything that doesn't involve a secondary objective that requires an Away Team. No new content release is going to be perfect and you're fully capable of just waiting until they hotfix things to play it. They didn't release it too soon, you played it too soon. If you can't handle the bugs and obviously FUBAR difficulty curve stay away for a while.

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Basically all that boils down to....

"Waaaaah, new game mode is not EXACTLY what i wanted, cant nuke everything with one button, reeeeeeee. Cant get everything on day one and i actually need to put some effort into it. Hiw dare you #ruinedthegame #deadframe "

Seriously you dont like it dont play it. Pretend it doesnt exist like lunaro, conclave, arbis etc. Keep your salt to yourself ( you might need it, winter is coming) and let other people enjoy it. 

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11 hours ago, Caine2112 said:

Third, being swarmed constantly by never ending waves of fighters that spawn right on top of you kills your new ship pratically instantly

I thought shields in warframe were useless, but to my surprise shields in railjack could be completely absent and I wouldn't even notice because they are gone in one second, also, you still get ruptures at full health, reminds me of the horrible way DE implements difficulty by giving enemies 100% slash procs when they want you to feel "the challenge" although considering their focus testing seems to be just a couple of GAMRGURRL tier players who can't deal with Lv40 enemies maybe I am giving them too much credit.

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10 hours ago, realBiONiC said:

I just ask myself, how are these gamebraking bugs not discovered beforehand?

Because "its a beta" and guess who are the testers?

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11 hours ago, Caine2112 said:

TL;DR:  Railjack, in this broken state, is NOT FUN.  It is another endless chore that ends in constant mission failure because the mechanics and resources needed to make this FUN are NOT THERE.  Railjack needs to be seriously taken back to the drawing board.  Hopefully, it'll be a game system that might be fun come this Spring.  For Xmas, I'll play Battletech while I wait.

Absolutely, from the depths of my soul, disagree.  You didn't play railjack you want to skip through it like daisies in a field.  I got a small team together of 3 people and we aced it.  The only failures came from solo attempts and a lack of preparation.  Are you allergic to a little failure?

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