Empyrean and the decline of Warframe

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

22 minutes ago, X_96 said:

To make it short, people don't play warframe like it's intended to. As soon as Empyrean launched, everyone started to look for the fastest way to complete it, missing out on most of the experience. Everyone leaves the ship behind because they don't bother to upgrade it. To put it simply, it would take too long. It's not the experience they looking for, it's those items and upgrades. Not playing for fun, but for completions sake.

If you are one of those people, please do us all a favor and don't complain once you got the content done within a week or two. Maybe it's time to stop playing. Or maybe look for another game you can finish in a week.

Since I haven't played Railjack yet, did the tutorial not explain how the gamemode was supposed to be played?

[bananacat89]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

Since I haven't played Railjack yet, did the tutorial not explain how the gamemode was supposed to be played?

There is no tutorial. You just jump in blind. If you read the release notes then you kinda have some type of grasp about it. Although in DE fashion it has lots of errors and game breaking bugs that contradict the initial release notes. As well as a whole lot missing. It can be a tad overwhelming. 

Trial and error and forum info is about the only thing we got. Since most players don't even use the forums, reddit or fan sites this has turned upside down. All co operation was thrown out the window. Every frame for themselves now.  Once the word got out that Umbra forma was a rare lootable reward from crates and rocks and lockers. , Rail jack quickly went from a co op zerg fest to a umbra foraging simulator. 

[Awazx]

il y a 41 minutes, Serafim_94 a dit :

Now that people got exactly what they cried for

No. Players (like me) who love the core of the game have not obtained what they have asked for in this forum for years. No PoE, Fortuna, or Lunaro, Conclave, Archwing, or now Empyrean is what Warframe needed. DE is wasting time.

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

3 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

... Someone got butthurt...

But is he actually wrong?

I have 3 avionics slots upgraded to +3, and have enough ranks in health and armor avionics to have over 4k health and almost 2.5k armor, and I still haven't done a mission beyond the first two nodes because you can't join a mission you haven't unlocked, and I'm not about to start a mission I can't solo if I have to rely on public matchmaking to fill my ship. Then there is the fact that if you complete one mission, go to another mission, and fail that mission, you lose everything from both missions. Thus, if I get anything of value from the first mission, I am pretty much forced to go back to the drydock to save my progress.

If DE made each mission completion write to server (the way that catching a fish does in PoE/OV), then maybe I would have incentive to see how far I can push my ship and random crew. But since any ambition is rewarded with a high price of failure, I have no reason to push forward. Instead, I am farming as many MK1 weapons and parts as I can from the first two nodes, along with the resources to build them (pustrels costs either need to be lowered, or the drop rate/size increased, because they seem to be extremely rare on Earth missions, and are necessary for all upgrades). Only after I have depleted these node of usefulness will I even attempt to move forwards, because anything I may have gained from the first mission I used to get my random crew will have no rewards I can't afford to lose.

Overall, I understand what DE was going for, but this mission type doesn't have the rewards (outside of the very high level missions) to attract the highly sophisticated, tightly-knit groups that did raids and do Tridolons, but they are asking for that level of gameplay at even the lowest levels. Maybe if I was in a big, mostly impersonal clan with a Discord server and weekly donation requirements I might be able to get a half-decent crew with the means to communicate together, but my small, friends-only clan doesn't fit DE's vision for Empyrean, so I am forced to use randoms (recruit chat seems to be pretty bad right now, with all the same problems that Tridolon hunts have).

 

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

3 minutes ago, bananacat89 said:

Once the word got out that Umbra forma was a rare lootable reward from crates and rocks and lockers. , Rail jack quickly went from a co op zerg fest to a umbra foraging simulator. 

I cannot even begin to express how disappointed I was to find out that Umbra Forma could be acquired by extremely stingy RNG. Before, everyone who put in the work had the same number of Umbra Forma; the only difference was how you used it. Now, the no-lifer and the extremely lucky can have an Umbral build on every frame and melee weapon, while the rest of us continue as we are.

Shame on you, DE, for getting rid of the only system in this game that rewarded players equally for their effort.

[Awazx]

il y a 49 minutes, X_96 a dit :

Maybe it's time to stop playing. Or maybe look for another game you can finish in a week.

I do not think that DE is funny about his suggestion.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

13 minutes ago, bananacat89 said:

There is no tutorial. You just jump in blind. If you read the release notes then you kinda have some type of grasp about it. Although in DE fashion it has lots of errors and game breaking bugs that contradict the initial release notes. As well as a whole lot missing. It can be a tad overwhelming. 

Trial and error and forum info is about the only thing we got. Since most players don't even use the forums, reddit or fan sites this has turned upside down. All co operation was thrown out the window. Every frame for themselves now.  Once the word got out that Umbra forma was a rare lootable reward from crates and rocks and lockers. , Rail jack quickly went from a co op zerg fest to a umbra foraging simulator. 

That was kind of the point I was trying to make since there is no tutorial then how are players supposed to learn the proper way to play? Maybe there is no proper or improper way to play. Over time the meta will develop, but for now it is just learning the basics and seeing what strategies are the most efficient. The non-shared loot is another horrible design choice that deseve's it's own topic (or more).

Edited December 16, 2019 by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph

[bananacat89]

2 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

I cannot even begin to express how disappointed I was to find out that Umbra Forma could be acquired by extremely stingy RNG. Before, everyone who put in the work had the same number of Umbra Forma; the only difference was how you used it. Now, the no-lifer and the extremely lucky can have an Umbral build on every frame and melee weapon, while the rest of us continue as we are.

Shame on you, DE, for getting rid of the only system in this game that rewarded players equally for their effort.

I would prefer if it was just a ultra rare random bonus reward we got after completing the mission. That way everyone can have one and we can still have fun in our railjack without every mission turning into a 45 minute rock breaking hunt.  

 

[X_96]

@o0Despair0o What you are saying sounds like you are not enjoying the game for what it is. You try to make something you want it to be. Games are made for fun and enjoyment. If you are not having fun or enjoying the time you spend in a game, then it's clearly not made for you.

[X_96]

@Awazx Having a huge playerbase is one thing; Having a playerbase that supports the game and helps it improve is another. In this discussion alone are a lot of people giving constructive criticism instead of just complaining.

[Voltage]

30 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Shame on you, DE, for getting rid of the only system in this game that rewarded players equally for their effort.

DE consistently undermines their own systems. Don't be so surprised anymore. Ever since Aura Forma was added to the market, I knew Umbral Forma was next on the list for "items to make easier to get". And yes, rare containers are easier than multiple weeks/months of Nightwave challenges.

[bananacat89]

Back on topic though. 

Warframe has always been a zerg fest to many. People love the fast paced godly powers bestowed upon them. People love being able to obliterate stuff. The devs know this very well.  To tell people to go find a new game and not play warframe is a bit harsh. It is the same as telling flower sniffers who like to savor every star and new sound effect to go find a new game if they dislike the fast paced nature of Warframe. That is not cool to say to them. 

There is no right way to play. You can go slow. Medium or over 9000. All types of players have always been welcome in Warframe. It can hinder developer choices sometimes and make content seem trivial but the players are not to blame for this. DE is to blame for this for not making content that caters to everyone. People will zerg this RailJack and complain there is nothing to do. We know this and the devs know this.  One simple way to keep everyone playing is to just throw in a few survival railjack missions. Then everyone's happy. You can't zerg your way through a endless survival because it is never ending. 

Whether your a zerger or a flower sniffer. Neither is to blame and no party should be shunned. If you want to point fingers then point em at the Devs! 

I consider myself a mix of a flower sniffing zerger. I like to savor every inch of new content solo. Find all the easter eggs and new things. Then once I have grasped a basic concept of it and am used to the scenery. I go in there and grind like a darned stripper who is late for tuition payments. No harm in that. 

Edited December 16, 2019 by bananacat89
spelling

[kevoisvevo]

1 hour ago, X_96 said:

To make it short, people don't play warframe like it's intended to. As soon as Empyrean launched, everyone started to look for the fastest way to complete it, missing out on most of the experience. Everyone leaves the ship behind because they don't bother to upgrade it. To put it simply, it would take too long. It's not the experience they looking for, it's those items and upgrades. Not playing for fun, but for completions sake.

If you are one of those people, please do us all a favor and don't complain once you got the content done within a week or two. Maybe it's time to stop playing. Or maybe look for another game you can finish in a week.

ah the classic it's not my fault, it has to be someone else's. a tale as old as time

[Aldain]

Yes, blame the players, it is their fault for everything and definitely not ours, we're perfect and cannot be faulted for anything.

-John "Don't you guys have phones?" Blizzard

[kapn655321]

53 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

hurt...

37 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

But is he actually wrong?

Not mutually exclusive. It's totally possible to have a good point, but get in a state about it where it's hard to communicate.
I reckon everybody's been there. It's makes it harder to hear them out, which is not necessarily being deliberate ignorant to their cause.


 

[X_96]

@bananacat89 The Devs are partially at fault. Over the last few years we had very different content. From raids to Eidolons to Railjack, nothing was "connected" to the other. The Devs should pick a direction they want to go and allow the players to judge for themselves if that's what they want to play.

[X_96]

16 minutes ago, kevoisvevo said:

ah the classic it's not my fault, it has to be someone else's.

Don't take it as blaming, take it more like advice to move on instead of clinging to something that you clearly don't enjoy. If warframe isn't what you want, why try to make it that way. There are a lot of games out there, A LOT. You don't need to stick with something that you so desperately try to change. It's unhealthy. You can move on and find something you actually enjoy.

[RX-3DR]

As someone who barely uses Warframe abilities, it's perfectly understandable why the Railjack should and borderline needs to be left behind.

Bringing the Railjack into combat does two things, it makes it possible to fail the mission, and it locks people down to constantly having to babysit it. It's very much like bringing your Rescue target into a sea of Bombards. The cost reward of it is horrible, as the Railjack can barely deal with a group of Interceptors without taking massive damage and the arrival of a Crewship means you're going to be plugging critical holes instantly. Whatever fun there is to be had is simply bogged down with a vehicle that can't deal with enemies quick enough to avoid having to play the management game of repair and refine.

[X_96]

2 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

play the management game of repair and refine.

The "Engineer" role is specifically made for this. There is a whole Intrinsics category for this.

[Teljaxx]

I have seen a lot of people talk about DE's intentions. Not just with this update, but many others as well. But they never talk about whether or not the actual execution matches the intention. If the execution is bad, it doesn't matter if your intentions are good, the end result is still bad. If DE wants us to enjoy something for weeks and weeks, but it isn't even fun for a single day, then it just plain isn't fun, end of story. If something is supposed to take a long time, but people find an exploit and rush through it, then its broken, end of story.

DE tends to make simple systems that get boring quickly, then try to stretch them out with a massive grind. This pretty much always means that you have to spend a long time not having fun, before you get to actually start enjoying the game. And if a game isn't fun, then why should you play it? This is why I only barely play anymore. All the fun parts of the game are locked behind long tedious parts that I don't enjoy.

Games should strive to be fun 100% of the time, from beginning to end. And even if that is what DE intends, as I assume they do, their execution doesn't match. Way too much of this game is just time consuming and not fun. If DE wants us to slow down and take our time, they need to make that the most enjoyable option. Their intentions need to match their execution for once.

[DeathDweller]

Yeah going by that logic i dare you to go play Tetris and win 1 stage by placing all the blocks outside the designated area, but you know what?You can't and you can't because the game designer "designed" that game as to you not having a choice on the matter.When you understand that we can continue.

[X_96]

6 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

The cost reward of it is horrible

A simple solution to this would be increasing the damage and firerate of enemy ships making it impossible to use archiwing, aswell as balancing out the damage output of the Railjack to be more effective against single fighters. Those are small things that can and will be changed at a later date. And in my honest opinion, it isn't that bad right now.

[(PSN)thecoolman575]

Believe me man I haven’t been rushing through the new content at all but these updates have layers of grind and rng. Also DE keeps implementing a bunch of poor mechanics and they’re generally being incompetent and definitely not testing out these updates. They keep rushing and delivering them super buggy. 

[X_96]

3 minutes ago, DeathDweller said:

the game designer "designed" that game as to you not having a choice on the matter.

You want to tell me that you don't have a choice to not rush through content in the most efficient way possible? "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game." -Soren Johnson

[Aldain]

3 minutes ago, X_96 said:

A simple solution to this would be increasing the damage and firerate of enemy ships making it impossible to use archiwing

...So force people to play the game one way and only one way despite the entire game being built on options?

That would be like if you made a game where you have 100 weapons but only 1 of them actually deals damage and the rest kill you when you use them.

Warframe has had options for years, but yeah sure, let's just start getting rid of them, next we'll get rid of every Warframe that isn't Volt Equinox or Saryn because DPS is the "right" way to play the game. /s