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Empyrean and the decline of Warframe

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4 minutes ago, LazyKnight said:

Warframe has reached a point where I do not believe any of DE's staff remembers all the systems added to the game. Tweaking system to get the result they want might not be faster than just striping assets they know work and making a new game. 

I'm sadly inclined to agree. To be frank, if I knew for sure that Warframe will never get better, I'll take a new game over what we have right now. It's just that pathetic sliver of hope I hold onto that someday DE will decide that enough is enough. Long shot.

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5 minutes ago, Tellakey said:

Mind you, I'll reply as someone who only played like 2 Railjack matches and haven't encountered the aforementioned difficulty issue.

As far as this quoted line of yours, I'd argue that it's good we're not superstrong. When I think back on my best time in Warframe, it's definitely the beginning, when I wasn't yet so OP as to make every game a cheese-fest. There is value in being the underdog and making smart combat decisions stemming from this quality. I think Warframe should adopt that direction over the power-fantasy one. I mean look at the Soulsborne genre. People really enjoy playing as the underdog, and for a good reason. It's more stimulating.

So yea, I'd argue that, as you said, Railjack's difficulty doesn't so much mirror early gameplay as it does employ poor design. Just my two cents.

The difficulty is manageable on earth with at least one other person that knows what they are doing, 

Just one intrinsic in all fields is good enough. Haven't repaired any mk 1 parts yet. 

But I honestly did not play this game to be the underdog, I played the game to be the big bad wolf. 

The current game mode makes me feel like a kitten thrown in a shallow river with hungry dogs around. I won't drown if I keep my head above water, but doing so is likely to get my head bitten off. 

People like different things, I don't need to feel superstrong per se to enjoy the game, but drowning kitten is something I will defintely avoid. 

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The real question you should be asking is why do you think the game should never change?

This ***** game changes every other month since the launch of the second dream. What the heck are you on about?

But saying so, 'space opera' is the absolute trash course of action one can take. All the micro-management and space battles are infinitely boring. In all other games that had such things be it mass effect or something like dead space, you always wished it would just end already so you can start playing da game again.

Ive yet to see a single person not lying through his teeth that he "liked archwing very much" or saying I like it buuut and archwing was never a core gameplay element, Ive yet to see a single person that signed up for a shooter and got space battles being happy as a result.

And dont even make me start on the "but wait theres more - its a coop!" thing. Absolute dumpster fire.

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DE isn't just going to remove Railjack because you don't like it.

And thast why this game is on a steady decline.

Developers are chasing their delusions and dreams instead of listening to players. Well its not something uncommon these days, lots of media prefer to push their own agendas and lose money rather than giving consumers what they want and gain money.

Edited by -Temp0-
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1 minute ago, 0_The_F00l said:

The difficulty is manageable on earth with at least one other person that knows what they are doing, 

Just one intrinsic in all fields is good enough. Haven't repaired any mk 1 parts yet. 

But I honestly did not play this game to be the underdog, I played the game to be the big bad wolf. 

The current game mode makes me feel like a kitten thrown in a shallow river with hungry dogs around. I won't drown if I keep my head above water, but doing so is likely to get my head bitten off. 

People like different things, I don't need to feel superstrong per se to enjoy the game, but drowning kitten is something I will defintely avoid. 

Fair enough. You want a fighting chance and the game treats you like a total noob. It would also make ludo-narrative sense for Tenno to not be underdogs but rather competent soldiers. I'll take it. I'll take competent over a god, and you'll take super-competent over a drowning kitty. Works for me.

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DE managed to tie Open World and Archwing together to make Railjack... but it's missing the normal mission play. Your Warframe powers don't seem very used in Railjack aside of destroying a crewship or boarding party.

How will DE tie normal mission play into Railjack? It seems they are trying to combine all the concepts and this is what's missing.

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The bugs and some gameplay mechanics are annoying. I think that will eventually even out and the Railjacks could be made a little less fragile, especially against enemies early on. but it is a fun game mode

 

Edited by Prexades

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2 hours ago, ValinorAtani said:

Who said that i‘m playing it right now? I only tried the first RJ mission. You know what happened? Indefinitely loading screen after the mission ended without any ressources we gained through the mission. That as a first impression of the new hot S#&$? Come on.

I just try to emphatize you for other opionions which you should noticed already because I wasnt speaking from my perspective in my last 2 replies.

That's logically the only thing people should be complaining about, and rightfully so. But I dont care if someone doesn't like the update because they hate archwing, it's not a real reason it's just finding something to not like and thinking the game caters to what you want. Not you personally, just random people.

I personally have been around the block too much: on most games new updates have bugs, they're reported and fixed anywhere from 2 days to a month. People just have to accept that and not try to throw all your eggs in one basket on the 1st day of a content drop. You're setting yourself up for failure just like people who magically forget that rivens are adjusted every few months.

It's a sad part of the gaming world but we're just newly reformed cave men manipulating code. There's gonna be issues and setbacks just like with anything humans do.

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1 hour ago, Tellakey said:

Excuse me? "If you don't have anything positive to say, then your opinion is invalid." Are you kidding me? So now disliking things is equated with trolling? God save us all from anti-critics.

Maybe I'm not a mindless drone who just slurps up everything I'm being spoon-fed with a $hit-eating grin. I used to like the base game but DE kinda gave up on it in favor of big expansions.

The game wasn't always in the horrible state it is today. Rivens weren't always a thing. Insane spawn rates weren't always a thing. Spasmodic parkour wasn't always a thing. Saryn wasn't always meta and Vauban used to be relevant.

I'm allowed to provide negative feedback on a game that used to adopt a certain direction that I liked and doesn't anymore. Imagine signing up for a literature club for it to slowly become a cinema club. This ain't what you signed for. Maybe you should just shut your mouth and accept this incoherent change. Don't be negative! Just shut up! What? You're kid is misbehaving? Well don't be a party-pooper. Just tell them how good they're being. We don't wanna be negative after all. You can't possibly love your kid while at the same time admonish them for their acting up, you bigot!

I won't be surprised if you're one of those people who say that people who disliked The Last Jedi are not real fans.

No, more like if you think the base game is horrible, then all you are here to do is criticize. It would be like me playing fortnite, not liking it and posting on their forums what a terrible game it is. What's the point if I don't like the base game anyway?

Nothing wrong with criticism, but why would a dev listen to players that don't even think the base game is good? You can't please that person unless you create an entirely new game.

Anyway, have fun playing a game that you find so flawed. I personally would find it a waste of time. But you do you.

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22 minutes ago, nslay said:

DE managed to tie Open World and Archwing together to make Railjack... but it's missing the normal mission play. Your Warframe powers don't seem very used in Railjack aside of destroying a crewship or boarding party.

How will DE tie normal mission play into Railjack? It seems they are trying to combine all the concepts and this is what's missing.

One way to do that is if we get out of the normal missions the same way we do with the Asteroids/Galeons in the Railjack missions.

It makes me worry of the loading time if such can be the case.

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2 hours ago, Goodwill said:

I'm happy, this is pretty much why I funded Warframe from the beginning when it was relatively nothing. Not because it was a shooter, not because it had parkour in it. There were other games where I could get my fix of hack and slash shooters with abilities and whatnot.

I funded Warframe because it "looked" cool. Hell, I dropped $200+ before I actually played the game. And now they've came out with all this stuff that was completely beyond my expectations. I am 10 billion percent happy I have supported Warframe to see their original idea take form.

Keep this up DE and don't settle for mediocrity and just do what you want to do. I'm paying YOU for YOUR game, I'm not paying player's for their game. Railjack update has definitely made Ivara Prime Access a buy for me (would've probably bought it anyway)

In saying all of that, Warframe still needs A LOT of work and I hope maybe in 2021 you guys chill a bit and do a rework of the starchart, questlines, UI and player experience. Warframe is a jumbled mess full of inconsistencies. Then you guys need to sit down and think of providing more story content that is consistently experienced across the starchart instead of a handful that are few inbetween. Railjack also demonstrates how inconsistent the UI is across different systems and UI design 101 dictates that less clicks are better. Might want to consider that for a future overhaul. Honestly, there are a metric ton of things I can criticize Warframe about. But the presence of Railjack is not one of them (but the implementation... yeah...)

This is 1 mature and level headed response in a sea of 1-complaint punch lines.

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58 minutes ago, DerGreif2 said:

Warframe is a loot Shooter. WTF has Railjack to do with it? Nothing. I wait now a long time for new planets, bosses and such. Nothing. BUT now they wasted 2 years (and more in the future) in Archwing 2.0 that has nothing to do with the core of the game. Why people are pissed? Because they throw out the same thing archwing just with more micro management and a lot more bugs. Yes they will fix it but how long will that take? 1 month? 1 Year? And what will we get in the mean time?

Why do they even release new prime frames and weapons when we now got another mode where they are usless? I really wished that they would create a new system with missions, planets, and new bosses that also have new items to farm or frame to unlock all together with calssic quests... nope. Now we have waited a long time for archwing 2.0 and the new war that also has the focus of archwing 2.0 will come out in a few months. So when do we get new REAL content?

That the Lich system was more popular is because it was core gameplay. This stuff here is another minigame... and it is not huge spaciship battles like I thoght. Its simply archwing 1.0 with micromanagemnt and a little bigger enemies...

 

You are not seeing the potential here. This will become the core gameplay. When it comes to explorer new content, going to the Sentient world, exploring other solar systems you'll need a ship for it. The orbiter can't jump to another solar system but the Railjack can. The potential is massive here. Especially if they can start in cooperating the normal missions into Railjack.

So I am loving this new expansion I see where they are heading regarding the lore and teaser trailers, we needed this badly to explore that stuff and take Warframe to the next level. Did you know if you look through your sunroof you'll see your Railjack? This is too cool. 😄

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4 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

No, more like if you think the base game is horrible, then all you are here to do is criticize. It would be like me playing fortnite, not liking it and posting on their forums what a terrible game it is. What's the point if I don't like the base game anyway?

Nothing wrong with criticism, but why would a dev listen to players that don't even think the base game is good? You can't please that person unless you create an entirely new game.

Anyway, have fun playing a game that you find so flawed. I personally would find it a waste of time. But you do you.

My analogy clearly went over you head. I stated that I used to enjoy the base game, back when DE didn't neglect it and made baffling choices about difficulty and balance. I'm not some rando who one day decided to try Warframe and didn't find it good. I'm a long-timer, I was here when the game started and I stayed with it until this point. Isn't that enough evidence that I have some love for the game? Do I instantly lose all rights to criticize the game if it takes a turn I don't like? Is it just "not for me" anymore and that's that?

I also used to write long and tedious feedback threads that, like most long and tedious feedback thread, went completely ignored. There is no point in being constructive when the company's main goal is money. It's a fool's errand. But I guess I'm no better than a fool if I think there's a chance DE will get back to their senses.

Edited by Tellakey
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4 minutes ago, Tellakey said:

My analogy clearly went over you head. I stated that I used to enjoy the base game, back when DE didn't neglect it and made baffling choices about difficulty and balance. I'm not some rando who one day decided to try Warframe and didn't find it good. I'm a long-timer, I was here when the game started and I stayed with it until this point. Isn't that enough evidence that I have some love for the game? Do I instantly lose all rights to criticize the game if it takes a turn I don't like? Is it just "not for me" anymore and that's that?

I also used to write long and tedious feedback threads that, like most long and tedious feedback thread, went completely ignored. There is no point in being constructive when the company's main goal is money. It's a fool's errand. But I guess I'm no better than a fool if I think there's a chance DE will get back to their senses.

If you can't handle rivens, the parkour, or the higher enemy spawns, then you aren't close to the "end game" of Warframe. You signed up for a looter shooter space ninja fighting game... in space.

What the is the update? Space ninja fighting in space! I don't see the problem here. If you want them to tweak old, forgotten game mechanics then forget it. Tweaking stuff, never makes it much better. They would have to reinvent that content and there's no point now when Railjack is the future of Warframe.

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5 minutes ago, Kajin_Style said:

If you can't handle rivens, the parkour, or the higher enemy spawns, then you aren't close to the "end game" of Warframe. You signed up for a looter shooter space ninja fighting game... in space.

What the is the update? Space ninja fighting in space! I don't see the problem here. If you want them to tweak old, forgotten game mechanics then forget it. Tweaking stuff, never makes it much better. They would have to reinvent that content and there's no point now when Railjack is the future of Warframe.

Dude I'm definitely endgame-worthy and have been for a few years. I don't have any higher to go. I have some god-roll rivens and a few dozen formas available after having formad everything. If your argument is that I'm not good enough and should keep playing, stop right there, because I have nowhere to improve. My problem is not that I can't hold my own. It's that the manner in which I hold my own is stupid, artificial and boring. This is literally how Bethesda implements difficulty in their games. Just gives enemies more health and damage.

Also, where did you get the idea that I dislike Railjack? I stated before that I like the concept. Never have I stated anything negative. Don't strawman.

DE never tweaked stuff properly because their design philosophy wasn't right in the first place. They think Saryn's 4 is proper gameplay ffs. Why ever use a pistol when you can spam 4?! That there is the best symptom of DE's design philosophy.

And don't assume that Railjack is the future of Warframe. Would you consider PoE or Fortuna the future of Warframe? Cuz it sure ain't.

Edited by Tellakey
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5 minutes ago, Tellakey said:

Dude I'm definitely endgame-worthy and have been for a few years. I don't have any higher to go. I have some god-roll rivens and a few dozen formas available after having formad everything. If your argument is that I'm not good enough and should keep playing, stop right there, because I have nowhere to improve. My problem is not that I can't hold my own. It's that the manner in which I hold my own is stupid, artificial and boring. This is literally how Bethesda implements difficulty in their games. Just gives enemies more health and damage.

Also, where did you get the idea that I dislike Railjack? I stated before that I like the concept. Never have I stated anything negative. Don't strawman.

DE never tweaked stuff properly because their design philosophy wasn't right in the first place. They think Saryn's 4 is proper gameplay ffs. Why ever use a pistol when you can spam 4?! That there is the best symptom of DE's design philosophy.

And don't assume that Railjack is the future of Warframe. Would you consider PoE or Fortuna the future of Warframe? Cuz it sure ain't.

Well DE said Railjack is the future of Warframe, so...

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1 minute ago, Tellakey said:

Dude I'm definitely endgame-worthy and have been for a few years. I don't have any higher to go. I have some god-roll rivens and a few dozen formas available after having formad everything. If your argument is that I'm not good enough and should keep playing, stop right there, because I have nowhere to improve. My problem is not that I can't hold my own. It's that the manner in which I hold my own is stupid, artificial and boring. This is literally how Bethesda implements difficulty in their games. Just gives enemies more health and damage.

Also, where did you get the idea that I dislike Railjack? I stated before that I like the concept. Nowhere else have I stated anything negative. Don't strawman.

DE never tweaked stuff properly because their design philosophy wasn't right in the first place. They think Saryn's 4 is proper gameplay ffs. Why ever use a pistol when you can spam 4?! That there is the best symptom of DE's design philosophy.

And don't assume that Railjack is the future of Warframe. Would you consider PoE or Fortuna the future of Warframe? Cuz it sure ain't.

 

You don't know the lore then if you can't see how Railjacks are necessary for future content.

For someone who has so much you seem to be having trouble with this that the rest of us seem to handle just fine. I don't care about Saryn's 4 to win. I use Ember's 2 to win with her amazing armor stripping. Or I run around as Gara with 2mil+ shatterstorm damage and laugh as everything I try to hug dies.

But you know what, let's assume you are the god you and have gained every frame and weapon, forma 'ed it all up to the best of your ability and having nothing to do. Good for you! It is as this point you've exhausted the game's content and it might be time to take a back seat and grab another game to fiddle around with for a few months while DE makes more stuff. Me on the other hand I still got plenty to gather, make and forma up. So I am happy with that.

Go, find something else to play while DE makes more content for you to burn through.

 

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10 minutes ago, Kajin_Style said:

 

You don't know the lore then if you can't see how Railjacks are necessary for future content.

For someone who has so much you seem to be having trouble with this that the rest of us seem to handle just fine. I don't care about Saryn's 4 to win. I use Ember's 2 to win with her amazing armor stripping. Or I run around as Gara with 2mil+ shatterstorm damage and laugh as everything I try to hug dies.

But you know what, let's assume you are the god you and have gained every frame and weapon, forma 'ed it all up to the best of your ability and having nothing to do. Good for you! It is as this point you've exhausted the game's content and it might be time to take a back seat and grab another game to fiddle around with for a few months while DE makes more stuff. Me on the other hand I still got plenty to gather, make and forma up. So I am happy with that.

Go, find something else to play while DE makes more content for you to burn through.

 

How many times do I need to specify that I'm not having trouble winning in the game? I just don't find it engaging. Saryn is the best example out of all the nuke-frames out there. I didn't say that no other frame exists with nuke-potentials. 

And again you're assuming that I don't have anything else to play, or that I haven't been taking a break from Warframe. Indeed I have. For at least half a year now I've not so much as logged in to the game because of how bored I got with it. Now I got back for Railjack. It doesn't suddenly make my criticism invalid. What I have is not burn-out. This is not Monster Hunter World, where the gameplay is engaging no matter how long you play. I did get burned out on MHW because it hardly offers new content, but when it does and when Iceborne comes to PC, I'm not gonna be bored to death like I am in Warframe because MHW handles combat and difficulty exceptionally.

You can't invalidate my opinion because you enjoy something and I don't. I am as much a part of this community as you are. I gave DE my time and money throughout the years and I'm not suddenly deligitimized because I don't have fun with their new direction.

It's also baffling that you replied to me saying that I don't dislike Railjack with "you can't see how Railjacks are necessary for future content." I clearly don't dislike Railjacks. In fact I really love the concept. Still haven't played much of it to judge, but from what I've seen alone I'm more predisposed to like it then to dislike it. But again, Railjack being ok or good doesn't magically invalidate all the awful and boring gameplay that exists outside it.

Edited by Tellakey
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20 minutes ago, TheGildedOni said:

Well DE said Railjack is the future of Warframe, so...

Ah... are we really going with this argument? You know, EA says that their games are about pride and accomplishment.

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Railjack has always been a part of DE's vision for Warframe,  if you don't know this, you haven't been paying attention.  This is  the kind of stuff they wanted in the game back when they were deving dark sector.  There isn't good excuse to be surprised and angry at this 7+ years later.

 

Also if they just killed Warframe, they're doing an odd job of it.  83k concurrent players in a 7 year old game is nothing to sniff at.

Edited by Aggh

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8 minutes ago, Aggh said:

Railjack has always been a part of DE's vision for Warframe,  if you don't know this, you haven't been paying attention.  This is  the kind of stuff they wanted in the game back when they were deving dark sector.  There isn't good excuse to be surprised and angry at this 7+ years later.

 

Also if they just killed Warframe, they're doing an odd job of it.  83k concurrent players in a 7 year old game is nothing to sniff at.

I am neither surprised nor angry. I just don't think the developer's vision is the chief variable in determining the game's future. Money is. And I'm not saying Railjack isn't the future, but I won't be surprised if it isn't.

Nobody claimed that Warframe is being killed by DE. The game is clearly more and more successful. It doesn't make it good, otherwise you'd argue the same for EA games. At the end of the day, though, if the game is successful despite its glaring flaws, then the joke's on me and others like me. 

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2 minutes ago, Tellakey said:

if the game is successful despite its glaring flaws, then the joke's on me and others like me. 

Well the community seems pretty divided, even if it works, there's still much more that they can change to make it better

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Just now, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

Well the community seems pretty divided, even if it works, there's still much more that they can change to make it better

Unfortunately, I think enough people are okay with Warframe's current state to have DE sit on their laurels. Either that or the game receives a steady influx of new players who pay just enough to keep it afloat. We forum-goers are a minority. 

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Just now, Tellakey said:

Unfortunately, I think enough people are okay with Warframe's current state to have DE sit on their laurels. Either that or the game receives a steady influx of new players who pay just enough to keep it afloat. We forum-goers are a minority. 

Not wrong, I like Archwing despite people sh*ting on it, & like Empyrean too, but now that I come back after a few months of not playing, the grind & RNG killed me this time, I just don't want to play it

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I predict that when DE has realized its full vision, Warframe will be like one giant space open world and the Railjack will transport us anywhere to do anything. There will not be this waiting room where we navigate to a mission anymore. How they tie normal Warframe play into this concept remains to be seen.

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15 hours ago, TheGildedOni said:

This. Thing is, new modes aren't the problem. New modes are great when they can expand on the scale and scope of Warframe's core gameplay. They're terrible when they don't fit Warframe's core scifi combat-based gameplay (like Lunaro, Frame Fighter, and Mining and Fishing activities), and when they aren't designed in a way that enhances the core gameplay experience. Open world could've been great if it had been focused on integrating Warframe's various tileset game modes into one location: the open world map. Instead, DE made it all about farming, mining, and grinding for resources and standing, as well as on the terrible Operator amp mechanics and their associated boss fights (imo). A space combat mode would've been great, had it reinforced Warframe's fast pace by drawing inspiration from something like Battlefront 2's space modes (Pandemic and EA versions) instead of Sea of Thieves. The problem isn't that Warframe tries something new. It's that often, what's new doesn't fit Warframe's gameplay, and when it does, it's based on something other than the core Warframe gameplay experience.

This is agree with. I actually prefer AW when it felt more like Warframe controls in space. It almost had the same beat to it as the core gameplay.  

As long as railjack integrates into bringing us back to core gameplay, it may become a nice change of pace between grinding. 

I'm disappointed that they aren't implementing more into the open world. There was all of those doors they never utilized that shouldve connected to procedural dungeons. On release I was hoping that we could stay in the plains and transition to dungeons, etc. 

I really hope they don't forget about railjack

Edited by Hypernaut1

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