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TheKurtiStryke

grendel, the forgotten one

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So, i presume, De forgot about our bug guy, since after his release, he got only few small fixes, and not even a single Qol change, nor buffs.

tremendous energy drain, hard to know and understend what bonuses are active or you're activating with his 2, bad..really bad maneuvrability with his 4, varius bugs that affect the already bad energy drain.

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2 minutes ago, TheKurtiStryke said:

So, i presume, De forgot about our bug guy, since after his release, he got only few small fixes, and not even a single Qol change, nor buffs.

tremendous energy drain, hard to know and understend what bonuses are active or you're activating with his 2, bad..really bad maneuvrability with his 4, varius bugs that affect the already bad energy drain.

Didn't he get a buff on his 1 becoming a shotgun blast as well as the energy drain on his 1 being reduced?

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1 minute ago, Aadi880 said:

Didn't he get a buff on his 1 becoming a shotgun blast as well as the energy drain on his 1 being reduced?

Doesn't kinda make up for the fact that Grendel just has no place in ANY game mode or any purpose. He is just... F tier.

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1 hour ago, TheKurtiStryke said:

hard to know and understend what bonuses are active or you're activating with his 2

Yeah, I don't understand why he didn't get a Minelayer-style selector thingie for that.

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Not forgotten. Just misunderstood.

Though the buff selector thing is a definite requirement. 

Edited by Xepthrichros
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Grendel is literally the most recently released frame. For anyone new to Warframe, the pattern of ‘release, bug fix, move to next project, revisit six months to a year down the line’ (or up to four years down the line) might not be apparent.

Grendel is currently balanced to where DE wants him. Any problems we have will not be addressed for some time. This is not only normal for DE, it’s their preferred method so that the community can dig out and collate all the problems for them and they don’t have to put out dozens of micro-adjustments and take time away from their bigger projects.

Grendel is not forgotten. He’s brand new.

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Il y a 2 heures, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 a dit :

He did get buffs tho

That's how they're reworking and designing stuff now. Get some buff, problem solved. It also works with your kids, if they bother you, give them some cash - problem solved.

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He's been improved significantly  via the changes they already made to him.  Gauss to truly be better took a lot longer to be addressed.  Is Grendel perfect now?  Absolutely not.  He could still absolutely be improved.  But don't pretend like they ignored him.  DE's currently sorting out liches and railjack.  I wouldn't expect anything fresh on frames till that's "taken care of."

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Maybe when he's been out for longer he can be considered "forgotten"  but he's very new still and will likely get more attention paid to him once the fire that is railjack has been reigned in more.

 

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On 2019-12-14 at 7:08 AM, TheKurtiStryke said:

So, i presume, De forgot about our bug guy, since after his release, he got only few small fixes, and not even a single Qol change, nor buffs.

He literally got multiple QoL changes and buffs. I haven't even touched him yet and I knew that.

Where have you been?

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1 hour ago, (PS4)thefallenloser said:

He literally got multiple QoL changes and buffs. I haven't even touched him yet and I knew that.

Where have you been?

since his release, i didn't noticed such Qol changes, he still has awful energy drain problems.

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5 hours ago, TheKurtiStryke said:

since his release, i didn't noticed such Qol changes, he still has awful energy drain problems.

Hotfix 26.0.5

  • Grendel Changes & Fixes:
    • Grendel can now cast Nourish while Pulverize is active - to which we’ve added a new sound!
    • Grendel Feast expel deals increased damage based on the number and level of enemies. Also deals the same damage as a radial AoE.
    • Grendel Regurgitate damage radius increased from 3/3/3/3 to 3/4/5/5 and increased damage scaling.
    • Grendel Pulverize no longer ends when he runs out of consumed targets, instead it starts draining Energy like Ember’s Immolation.
    • Grendel also gets extra acceleration for Pulverize if he uses Nourish during it.
    • Added sound to when Grendel stumbles due to running out of Energy.
    • Fixed Grendel having fast legs after using Pulverize

Considering that they did not, in any way, address his actual energy drain, and actually added energy drain to compensate for his running out of Consumed enemies... This is almost certainly what DE wants him to be for now.

'For now' being the operative wording. He's literally just been released. He will certainly get a revisit. For now DE is at the point of 'He's not stupidly OP and he doesn't have any game breaking glitches, that means we can move on'.

Only time and data will give him any more changes, so the more people actually play him and report on what they feel is actually wrong with him, the more they have to go on.

Until then? Nothing will change. And 'then' might be anywhere from six months to four years down the line.

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On 2019-12-14 at 7:14 AM, Acersecomic said:

Doesn't kinda make up for the fact that Grendel just has no place in ANY game mode or any purpose. He is just... F tier.

My dude. No offense but grendel has plenty of tankiness and effectivenees and his shotgun blast is very effective. Check out Triburos vid and you can see,

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On 2019-12-14 at 7:08 AM, TheKurtiStryke said:

So, i presume, De forgot about our bug guy, since after his release, he got only few small fixes, and not even a single Qol change, nor buffs.

tremendous energy drain, hard to know and understend what bonuses are active or you're activating with his 2, bad..really bad maneuvrability with his 4, varius bugs that affect the already bad energy drain.

I hope I don't seem pissy with this comment but, Titania exists. The forgotten one? grendel is the latest frame released- Titania has existed for over a year and all she got was an okay qol change along with nyx who got the same deal. Frost exists. Rhino is practically unchanged. Grendel has been out for 2 months, I think we can wait and focus on other frames getting changes before our dad bod god

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6 hours ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

I hope I don't seem pissy with this comment but, Titania exists. The forgotten one? grendel is the latest frame released- Titania has existed for over a year and all she got was an okay qol change along with nyx who got the same deal. Frost exists. Rhino is practically unchanged. Grendel has been out for 2 months, I think we can wait and focus on other frames getting changes before our dad bod god

i agree wth you, but in here i'm talking about grendel, even more so if he's new and was released 2 months ago, he should get changes and qol changes after his release, just like has happened to  garuda or or khora.

titania/nyx are another thing, but like i said i'll agree with you.

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8 hours ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

My dude. No offense but grendel has plenty of tankiness and effectivenees and his shotgun blast is very effective. Check out Triburos vid and you can see,

Will do. I'm not holding out any hopes for him yet though 😞 Which is disappointing considering he and Gauss are best buddies apparently and Gauss is just so fkin badass.

It kinda feels like that pretty-girl-ugly-girl kind of friendly relationship atm 😕

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2 hours ago, TheKurtiStryke said:

i agree wth you, but in here i'm talking about grendel, even more so if he's new and was released 2 months ago, he should get changes and qol changes after his release, just like has happened to  garuda or or khora.

Mk. He did get some early on including his damage blast and others. Currently DE is kinda wrapped up in all their roadmap nonsense but we will prob see something early next year after DE finishes their christmas break

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I reckon to just be viable he just needs that stupid energy increase over time removed from his 1, it'd make surviving using his passive far more viable and would make using your 4 not chew all your energy up in one use.

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On 2019-12-14 at 9:12 AM, Aadi880 said:

Didn't he get a buff on his 1 becoming a shotgun blast as well as the energy drain on his 1 being reduced?

the 1 shotgun makes regurgitate mostly pointless and pulverize having no means of dealing with armor is bads

regurgitate needs smth, dealing true dmg would be an option, adding armor removal(a big ammount) that applies before dmg would be another solution

pulverize also needs some way of dealing with armor

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1 hour ago, TKDancer said:

the 1 shotgun makes regurgitate mostly pointless and pulverize having no means of dealing with armor is bads

regurgitate needs smth, dealing true dmg would be an option, adding armor removal(a big ammount) that applies before dmg would be another solution

pulverize also needs some way of dealing with armor

Bet-

Regurgitate- now reduces the spit enemies armor by 10% per additional enemy within his gut on cast- this is applied before damage is dealt and applies to enemies at the explosion radius before they take damage

Pulverize- Pulverize reduces the armor of enemies hit by pulverize or within his stomach during ground slam- this effect starts at 5% base- ramping up to 25% the longer pulverize lasts, ramp up speed based on mods- power strength or duration-  keep in mind this is on every instance of damage- 4 ground slams will reduce enemy armor by 100%- and if you make it scaled to power strength it will be even better- 

 

Even with his current flaws I still stand firm in that he does not require an immediate buff as he at least fits a role and performs it, he tank, he provides some minor buffs, and when it comes down to it he deals damage- compare to other frames who havent recieved REAL changes in extensive periods and either serve one role but not as well as any others do to outdated mechanics and stats, or serve no place as they are designed as generalist's but fall short enough that they can't do much of anything(poor titania), then you have frames like nyx, who, while fan favorite's are relics of an older game with slower paced abilities(absorb), lackluster mechanical implementation(mind control) and overall subpar delivery on their themes( Ember and Vaub had these probs, Rev, Nyx, Titania, Frost, and Hydroid are the new kings and queens of the DEsolate forgotten rework DEsert)

While Grendel could be better with a couple hotfixes and minor changes other frames need entire mechanics and abilities removed and altered if they want to be viable. While Grendels issue could be solved in the bottom of a patch note's as an afterthought without any big hubbub others require entire pages dedicated to how they need to be changed and could easily be considered big news. If Grendel gets a fix i go meh, but if DE says they are finally going to wipe the dust off of their abandoned baby Titania tons of people would be hyped for them

Edited by NuclearCoffeePot

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On 2019-12-17 at 7:22 PM, NuclearCoffeePot said:

Bet-

Regurgitate- now reduces the spit enemies armor by 10% per additional enemy within his gut on cast- this is applied before damage is dealt and applies to enemies at the explosion radius before they take damage

Pulverize- Pulverize reduces the armor of enemies hit by pulverize or within his stomach during ground slam- this effect starts at 5% base- ramping up to 25% the longer pulverize lasts, ramp up speed based on mods- power strength or duration-  keep in mind this is on every instance of damage- 4 ground slams will reduce enemy armor by 100%- and if you make it scaled to power strength it will be even better- 

 

Even with his current flaws I still stand firm in that he does not require an immediate buff as he at least fits a role and performs it, he tank, he provides some minor buffs, and when it comes down to it he deals damage- compare to other frames who havent recieved REAL changes in extensive periods and either serve one role but not as well as any others do to outdated mechanics and stats, or serve no place as they are designed as generalist's but fall short enough that they can't do much of anything(poor titania), then you have frames like nyx, who, while fan favorite's are relics of an older game with slower paced abilities(absorb), lackluster mechanical implementation(mind control) and overall subpar delivery on their themes( Ember and Vaub had these probs, Rev, Nyx, Titania, Frost, and Hydroid are the new kings and queens of the DEsolate forgotten rework DEsert)

While Grendel could be better with a couple hotfixes and minor changes other frames need entire mechanics and abilities removed and altered if they want to be viable. While Grendels issue could be solved in the bottom of a patch note's as an afterthought without any big hubbub others require entire pages dedicated to how they need to be changed and could easily be considered big news. If Grendel gets a fix i go meh, but if DE says they are finally going to wipe the dust off of their abandoned baby Titania tons of people would be hyped for them

Thats not really the problem some people have with him though. The reason why some, me included, want to see some more changes to him is because hes arguably as one note as it gets. He was effective from the start and I personally found the buffs he got not really improving thaaat much.

The real issue is how all that makes him good in later levels is a single ability. It can delete a room, costs a relatively small amount if used purely offensively with you never really holding enemies, and provide a temporary buff i suppose. What else in his kit is good? Well nourish spike is good damage for sure but I already 1 shot everything using feast without it so I cant say i use it often, and nourish energy is honestly only good because he drains energy so much that even buffing hunter adrenaline by 50% feels like its almost not enough if you intend to use anything but his 1 as a quick nuke. If theres anyone in your party who can restore energy they already can do it at a high enough rate that, while interesting idea for a buff, is ultimately meh in my eyes.

Nourish armor is bad, regurgitate was useless even before the shotgun was added because it doesnt have any of the reasons feast is so powerful, and pulverize is impact with no way of dealing with armor and locks you out of everything except nourish. Not to mention the controls which are honestly made worse with nourish's speed boost in my eyes since the physics are still the same and moving at higher speeds just makes you bounce further off stuff.

So all in all I think grendel needs a ton of work. Yeah, hes useful and effective, but as whole he basically has 1 ability which does everything and another which is just meant to offset the harsh penalties he has. Also heal a bit.

For reference, hes been my goto for when i want to play a brainless tank. I like his destructive capability paired with just being a machine of damage soaking. So i say this out of love that grendel is a powerful frame in a mediocre state overall.

Edited by Annnoth

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2 hours ago, Annnoth said:

Thats not really the problem some people have with him though. The reason why some, me included, want to see some more changes to him is because hes arguably as one note as it gets. He was effective from the start and I personally found the buffs he got not really improving thaaat much.

The real issue is how all that makes him good in later levels is a single ability. It can delete a room, costs a relatively small amount if used purely offensively with you never really holding enemies, and provide a temporary buff i suppose. What else in his kit is good? Well nourish spike is good damage for sure but I already 1 shot everything using feast without it so I cant say i use it often, and nourish energy is honestly only good because he drains energy so much that even buffing hunter adrenaline by 50% feels like its almost not enough if you intend to use anything but his 1 as a quick nuke. If theres anyone in your party who can restore energy they already can do it at a high enough rate that, while interesting idea for a buff, is ultimately meh in my eyes.

Nourish armor is bad, regurgitate was useless even before the shotgun was added because it doesnt have any of the reasons feast is so powerful, and pulverize is impact with no way of dealing with armor and locks you out of everything except nourish. Not to mention the controls which are honestly made worse with nourish's speed boost in my eyes since the physics are still the same and moving at higher speeds just makes you bounce further off stuff.

So all in all I think grendel needs a ton of work. Yeah, hes useful and effective, but as whole he basically has 1 ability which does everything and another which is just meant to offset the harsh penalties he has. Also heal a bit.

For reference, hes been my goto for when i want to play a brainless tank. I like his destructive capability paired with just being a machine of damage soaking. So i say this out of love that grendel is a powerful frame in a mediocre state overall.

I do not disagree with your points, the proposal I made there was in response to another individual talking about including armor strip for killing enemies more effectively. I still disagree however that grendel deserves reworks more then others, frames like titania, nyx, frost, zephyr, banshee, hydroid, and even nekros and mag. Some of these frames mentioned are to weak in most roles to do anything especially at high levels, fail at all roles, excel in one role when built right but are not useful(zephyr cc is great but like old vauban thats all she is, and cc is beaten out by death), some frames like frost or hydroid have one core ability or mechanic that they are played for or else all in all have mechanics that make them boring and not fun to play, and then their are frames like mag and nekros who while not inherently bad have potential that they do not live up to and could deliver on their themes in a more interesting way. 

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1 hour ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

I do not disagree with your points, the proposal I made there was in response to another individual talking about including armor strip for killing enemies more effectively. I still disagree however that grendel deserves reworks more then others, frames like titania, nyx, frost, zephyr, banshee, hydroid, and even nekros and mag. Some of these frames mentioned are to weak in most roles to do anything especially at high levels, fail at all roles, excel in one role when built right but are not useful(zephyr cc is great but like old vauban thats all she is, and cc is beaten out by death), some frames like frost or hydroid have one core ability or mechanic that they are played for or else all in all have mechanics that make them boring and not fun to play, and then their are frames like mag and nekros who while not inherently bad have potential that they do not live up to and could deliver on their themes in a more interesting way. 

That's fair, I imagine a lot of it is people worried DE will just forget about him if they don't get to him quick enough. For example garuda, while not in the worst state, got some pretty good changes pretty quick but still had a number of issues people would have liked to see fixed. Then one whole year later she gets some of them. Warframes aren't the only ones with the "fire and forget" issue DE has at times. I remember back in update 14 or so when they added kubrows they did get a change or 2 but were ultimately forgotten until they got one thing in 14.5 where they added the color changing system. It took several updates to fix the problem of them running in front of you and tanking your bullets. Many won't remember this but when the dogs started to crouch when you aimed, that was a huge deal and made people use them again.

As it stands I kind of don't expect to see much else added to grendel for a good while. Especially with empyrean part 3 and new war on the horizon? Yeah maybe not lol.

Edited by Annnoth

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