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Rivyn

Why all the negativity?

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2 hours ago, Mikhael222 said:

Sadly, the Loud Minority is generally a problem in society.

I prefer them to be able to voice their concerns and evaluate their validity, the gaming industry is no place for developers with an ego made out of glass.

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5 minutes ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

I prefer them to be able to voice their concerns and evaluate their validity, the gaming industry is no place for developers with an ego made out of glass.

Nah, it is better just to shut everyone up by screaming at them until they are happy by force or go away.

...I'm being sarcastic just in case nobody got that.

Edit: Two posts later exactly what I'm talking about happened, I'm psychic, fear me.

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reception can be more lukewarm than hoped, when things break hard enough to halt Gameplay. not to mention that what we have at this moment is like 1/10th of what Railjack is supposed to be, that doesn't entirely help either.

if people expected to get Empyrean, well what we got so far is 7* 12 hrs to wait for before as a starting point, and then a sliver of what the Railjack is supposed to be for being offered for now.
so like, an Empyrean... V 0.2, if you will? if reception to that sort of situation is lukewarm, it is what it is.

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4 minutes ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

I prefer them to be able to voice their concerns and evaluate their validity, the gaming industry is no place for developers with an ego made out of glass

It's also no place for angry stubborn self-entitled gamers that screech on the forums because they refuse to adapt, and yet the forums are flooded with them right now.

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10 hours ago, ChaosSabre said:

Because clearly barely any actual playtesting went into this update and they just rushed it out to get attention on Game Awards.

This exactly 

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3 hours ago, Mikhael222 said:

A lot of people on the forums are spoiled children who never had a taste of reality and don't understand the importance of patience, respect, and dignity.  Spoiled rich kids (95% of average Americans) are rarely ever happy in life.

You personally know 95% of the American people and can say they are not happy in life? How do you manage to fit Warframe into your tight schedule?

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The random stat of Railjack upgrades really sucks. On top of all the new layers of RNG added lately the fact that they put RNG on Railjack upgrades this time really makes me worrying the future of this game.

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Remember Forum’s reaction to Fortuna? Remember Forum’s reaction to Nightwave? Remember Forum’s reaction to The Old Blood? 
 

You “Veterans” already know DE’s Modus Operandi on big updates. They always release them in a “balanced” state so they can gather enough feedback from the community so they can adjust it accordingly. Why mad about it, I am sure after a few hotfixes we can grind those items in less than 4 hours.

 

But in the end, this message or advice is futile because this is an internet forum.

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I am waiting for them to fix and rebalance the game, it been a freaking real nut shell fixing all the haul in the ships for I wonder they are going buff the shield and armor for this one on the railjack for the truth.

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Here's how i feel about railjack...

I do like it and I find it a cool addition. But I feel like they missed the mark just a bit. I kinda feel like there should be separate progression systems, rewards, and quests for people who only crew a railjack. Other then just building one of your own. Maybe it's just a new system and I'm still getting used to it. But what encourages ppl to "crew" railjack, and not just host their own? Other then spending time with friends or whatever?

I dunno maybe I'm having trouble wrapping my head around having to build my own to do things in the system, when you don't need one to play it. It's like why bother at all playing it if you didn't build one? This is just how I feel.

It the equivalent of being able to play an unmodded/unleveled warframe, that you didn't build. You can't make any changes or progress it unless you build that frame. So why play it? Until you build it....? Again I like it but seems like I'm just waiting for now...playing it. This is my BIGGEST BEEF about it.

AS far as running around putting out fire and what not. I'm sure ppl enjoy this kinda "immersion" to it. But as a space ninja myself, I just want to hack and slash, and shoot in space. It's the reason why I never bought into those games like sea of thieves. I didn't enjoy the "run around". I'm sure there are plenty of people that love this coordination style of play. For me though it's off putting. I just want to fly and shoot/slash/upgrade/be rewarded. Again I like railjack, for me though if I join you wont see me putting out those fires, and what not.

I feel like that part of game play should be tied to an intrinsic progression where the person that specializes in it, gets the prompts for them. Then has to deal with them. Call them separate quests inside the joint quest for each person. All intrinsic should have those little jobs there for each person, and each person gets prompted accordingly. So if I'm a gunner I get prompts about fighters and boarding parties incoming.  But fire and repair stuff would be sent to the person with that intrinsic. It's like their own quest inside the co-op quest.

The way the system is now, it's like everyone does everything all the time. How is that working together? In a team, ppl do specific jobs, and it all comes together. You wont see a quarter back running to catch his own ball.

 

Also I would like the option for different ships, maybe I just want to join someones game as a single seated fighter. Or have a 2 crew ship fire firelighter/repairer. I mean if we going all out space sim/sea of thieves pirate ship.

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I feel they did pretty good with the update given how utterly different it is from the rest of the game. They basically made warframe 2.0 but as an expansion pack of warframe 1.0. Yes there are tons of gamebreaking bugs but how much they got right is crazy. I was expecting this to be wonky and meh at best but they have surprised me.Pretty sure they'll have to build on it over the years since this content they can easily monetize unlike poe and fortuna. Overall I think this horizontal branching is a much better direction than releasing new stuff only to let power creep make obsolete the old stuff.This also opens up avenues for interesting raid scenarios if those are ever coming back.

It's interesting how my experience has been on pub matches. Sure there are newbies but none can grief so hard that you lose the game. If you're a vet like me you can solo earth missions after a while and farm stuff at your own pace and if you're a newbie with not great archwing stuff, you can work as crew and gain experience till you're ready to solo stuff yourself. That said, having a crew is always more fun than not having a crew. Unless crew expecations mismatch for post-game.

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I think Warframe, like any 'endless' game, cannot avoid complainers because it is trying to cater to two very different groups of players.  

Grinding is boring.  Some people derive more satisfaction from reaching a goal than the journey.  These people are efficient at grinding.  These people reach objectives first.  They blast through content.  When there are no more goals, they complain. 

Now there is a second group of players.  These people like the journey more than the achievement of reaching the goal.  They play the game.  In the eyes of the first group, they grind inefficiently.  They are inefficient because they want the journey to be fun, not tedious.  They engage with the content more, and do not complain about it.  But they do complain about the grind.

A player can move from one of the two groups to the other.  Somewhat obviously, the endgame players are more likely to be in the goal-oriented group, and newer players are more likely to be in the journey-oriented group.

DE has a problem with juggling these two groups.  The only way to keep the goal-oriented players from blasting through content is to make it more grindy, or to put longer timers on things.  (Ever wondered why the game has timers and caps?  It is all there to hold the goal-oriented players back.)  Unfortunately, grind is what the second group hate.

So, when DE release new content, they get complaints about the grind from the journey group.  Then, when the goal group blast through the content, DE get complaints about the content.  The grind complaints are biased, in the sense that the complainers hate grind and do not engage with it.  Also, the content complaints are biased because the people complaining do not engage with content except for the goals.  The two groups have different motivations, which means each group does not have a problem with the thing the other group is complaining about.

DE is caught between a rock and a hard place.  Making the game less grindy enables one group of players to get bored sooner, while making it more grindy annoys the other group.  One effect of this is that you see content get less grindy the longer it is in the game.  Generally, for the first few months the content is harder to reach to try and keep the goal-oriented group in check, but then they make changes to enable the other group to cut through the grind easier.  It appears that DE are reacting to the journey group whining - and DE will even say they are reacting to player complaints - but really the initial over-grind was probably intentional. 

Where DE goes wrong, IMO, is not sending clear messages to either group.  Take Railjack.  The grind is either no big deal to you or massive.  If it is no big deal to you it is probably because you are in the group Railjack is currently aimed at.  However, DE are scared to send a clear message to the other group that Railjack is not meant for everyone.  Instead, they say that you can do it if you grind for it.  This causes the non-grind group to get resentful and complain about the grind.  Arguably, Railjack should be more gated than it is.  If you gate something in a non-grind way then the people who enjoy the journey tend not to complain about it because it is clearly a thing that comes later in the journey.  But DE appear reluctant to do that.

With new content, you get people complaining about the grind and people complaining about the content.  In general, these two groups have opposing motivations.  DE appear to do a poor job of balancing these two groups, but - to be fair - it cannot be an easy task.  DE seem unable to set the right expectations.  If Railjack is "endgame" then tailor it to the expectations of endgame players, and gate it from the rest.  DE try to have their cake and eat it too - which is why there IS no endgame, and why everyone has something to complain about.

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OP, don't you know? These days, any time a new game or update comes out, the first month all you see is *@##$ing and moaning, whether its actually warranted or not.

Gamers absolutely excel at complaining.

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Its part and parcel of any major update because for the time its taken to get it out its still a buggy mess and DE and new systems have a proven track record of taking a long time to iron out all the problems that would have been ironed out had they had a proper QA period and not relay on the playerbase to do it for them.

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Il y a 3 heures, DrivaMain a dit :

Remember Forum’s reaction to Fortuna? Remember Forum’s reaction to Nightwave? Remember Forum’s reaction to The Old Blood? 
 

You “Veterans” already know DE’s Modus Operandi on big updates. They always release them in a “balanced” state so they can gather enough feedback from the community so they can adjust it accordingly. Why mad about it, I am sure after a few hotfixes we can grind those items in less than 4 hours.

 

But in the end, this message or advice is futile because this is an internet forum.

Leech need more than few hotfixes to be fixed. It is garbage from a to z. And so much content needed hotfixes in this game, we are still waiting for the to finish things started years ago. 

It's getting worse every update.

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15 hours ago, Aldain said:

None of them.

Which is why people being disgruntled and "negative" shouldn't be a surprise, it happens every time any update happens.

Nor should the disappointment or negativity be dismissed outright. If people never said anything bugs would run rampant and things would never get changed at all.

I'm noticing a growing trend where anybody saying anything negative is "throwing a temper tantrum like a child" and anyone defending de is "white knighting".

It makes me want to eat copious amounts of pie. 

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7 hours ago, Rivyn said:

I do acknowledge it. There are things I would most certainly like changed. The varying stats on wreckage, now that I have a decent haul to compare. The sheer amount of resources requires between upgrades. The difficulty spike between missions. O, that long, long list of bugs, or course. Heck, even a tutorial would be nice. 

My issue, though, is when people lump it all in as negative. A lot of the threads I've read today do just that. Because this, this, and this are poor, then the whole pie must be rotten. It's how I separate the constructive criticism from the whining. If I came off as using a broad stroke on black and white, I should have been more clear. I get there can be a lot of frustration, especially when the launch is buggy. But to act like somebody stole their pizza they just ordered while starving is a little over the top.

Yeah, I suppose we all are vulnerable to making statements that over-generalize, myself included

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7 hours ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

I prefer them to be able to voice their concerns and evaluate their validity, the gaming industry is no place for developers with an ego made out of glass.

Voicing concerns and providing constructive feedback is acceptable until it reaches the point of immaturity.

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18 hours ago, Uan91 said:

You wouldn't flame your friends if they give you a cake for your birthday that you don't like, so you shouldn't flame a company for delivering a not perfect update for a game that you play for free. You don't like It? Leave it.

THIS IS HOW FREE TO PLAY WORKS.

The only fault DE has don Is raising the bar too high with older updates.

 

???? That's not at all how anything works.

Companies aren't my friends.

As a customer I have every right to complain, no matter how much money I spent or not. Learn to fight for your rights, instead of molly coddling people that are already way more powerful than you are (and more powerful than they should be).

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9 hours ago, continue said:

Amend this statement and I'll believe it.

America has a Commercialist holiday coming up pretty soon on December 25th that celebrates Materialism.

I'm not opposed to giving things to people on occasion, but when giving things to people becomes a cultural/religious requirement/ritual, it gives children the impression that they are entitled to be given anything they want, and anything less is unacceptable.

Children who don't grow out of that nonsense are generally those who whine on the forums over stupid trivial matters.

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10 hours ago, continue said:

There's "negativity" because you group people into "negative" and "positive" people instead of acknowledging that things can have good and bad aspects at the same time, that people can like and hate things at the same time, and that they want only the parts they hate to be fixed because you don't try to fix what isn't broken

How is this comment not like pinned everywhere on the forums?

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From what I've read, most of the complainers simply refuse to learn how to dodge, full stop.

I hope DE doesn't listen to these people at all. You have blink in archwing and evasive maneuvers in the rail. Use 'em and quit whining.

Has no one played a space flight sim before? Sheesh.

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20 hours ago, Rivyn said:

Empyrean hasn't even been out two full days, yet the forums have been consumed by 'doom and gloom' threads. We've had, what, two hotfixes for some bugs? Hasn't even been given a proper chance to settle, and already people are screaming that the sky is falling. Why? Most of it isn't even constructive criticism, just 'I don't like this, thus Warframe must be dying.' Maybe I'm just biased, since I really enjoy the release, but I like to think I can see things somewhat objectively. Can't we at least give it a week before claiming the game is doomed?

Bugs aside (that will mostly all be fixed inside of a week anyway), the update is pretty amazing. Most of the complaining I've seen can be boiled down to, "waaahhhhh it's too hard. Make it easier." which I couldn't disagree with more. The general complaint about Warframe as a whole for vet players is that it's too easy. People get used to facerolling everything in their sleep. Empyrean is a fresh start where we don't have high lvl gear/skills etc so high level content will be hard and won't get 1 shot by everything we do and so to some it's a shock to the system.

 

Player: "I'm not 1 shotting everything."

DE: "But your gear isn't levelled, and you're new to this system and haven't figured everything out yet."

Player: "...yea... but..... I'm not 1 shotting everything."

 

Personally I'm loving it and looking forward to seeing where it goes from here.

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7 hours ago, Mikhael222 said:

Voicing concerns and providing constructive feedback is acceptable until it reaches the point of immaturity.

By that point you just ignore the immature ones and move on.

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