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railjack, the space hostage that you have to babysit....


BloodKitten
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so, i just did a level 30+ fighter area, 90 fighters and 6 crew ships, i just park the railjack as far as possible, kill a few fighters with archwing, the hijack a crew ship with, 40k health and flak cannons, and all the fighters that swarming it can hardly dent it.

meanwhile at railjack, it will go critical the moment those fighter and crew ships sneeze at it....

okay DE, i get you want difficult, but you sure you havent made mistake with the scaling? bothe fights and crew have way too much effective health and i dont want to think how long the third space area will take.

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Personally, I solo'd the first mission 2 times and I'm just done.

Randoms never join until I've killed like 27/30 fighters and 1 crewship, and when they join, they got nothing to do because the stock railjack is so underpowered that flying backwards and sniping people is the only way things work.

All they got to do was repair a single hull breach all mission, because one of the 2 crewships launched a ramsledge or whatever those are called before I could wreck the reactor.

And since none of them bothered to use their AW, I had to go out alone to kill that crewship, meanwhile they were just standing around.

 

Not only is the scaling broken as hell, the overhyped co-op also dosn't really work without premade squads, meaning that you're basically forced to join or make a clan with multiple people to even have a chance at getting a good crew.

 

I'm just done with this. Until next year, when we finally get NPC crews, this Railjack is gonna collect a ton of dust. It's just bad game design when I have to use AW instead of the ship because said ship is completely worthless.

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We definitely need more archwing mods, at the very least. The mods we have as is... is seriously lacking. Making archguns into projectile is also kind of a bad move since enemy fighters are so damn agile, and anyone can tell you that hitting a moving target is much harder than hitting a stationary. At least Amesha's 3 works...

The railjack definitely could use a boost or two. It's like a battleship with the durability and armament of a patrol ship.

The gameplay itself is fun, though. Always wanted a space battle simulator game, or something like that.

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Have you already installed upgraded parts on your railjack ?
The values increase by a lot when you get different parts, for a example Pulsar deal 52 damages per shot and goes to 185 with Zetki Pulsar Mk II. Some shield, engines and reactor are pretty strong too, but there are also some mods that do a lot especially when you increase both the mod and the mod slot.

From what I understand, Railjack missions are designed to be played multiple time and farm for resources and upgrades before trying higher level missions, which is not that bad. So just give it time and see how it goes.

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The main source of frustration is that they imported the same style of "difficulty" as the rest of the game:

There is no skill, only grinding. You WILL take damage, but you grind for the ability to negate it. Enemies cannot be killed skillfully, only by having the right gun and mods ahead of time. If you grind enough, the enemies die and you win. If you don't grind enough, the enemies don't die and they shoot you to death

Now take a look at Railjack. Enemies just spawn and shoot relentlessly and surround you and you have to grind for the ability to negate the damage or the weapons to kill them before they shoot you? Check check and double check

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It's almost as if you're running a rank 0 frame with modless mk-1 weaponry in a sortie level mission. Stop trying to smash your head into a wall by bringing under-geared railjacks to missions they're not supposed to be able to handle easily and complain that it's too hard. The entire game is literally all about trivializing difficult content with high level mods and weapons, why do people think railjack is any different?

A week or two from now people are gonna be complaining how easy it is to clear T3 railjack missions when the higher-end weaponry finishes research.

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il y a 3 minutes, TARINunit9 a dit :

The main source of frustration is that they imported the same style of "difficulty" as the rest of the game:

There is no skill, only grinding. You WILL take damage, but you grind for the ability to negate it. Enemies cannot be killed skillfully, only by having the right gun and mods ahead of time. If you grind enough, the enemies die and you win. If you don't grind enough, the enemies don't die and they shoot you to death

Now take a look at Railjack. Enemies just spawn and shoot relentlessly and surround you and you have to grind for the ability to negate the damage or the weapons to kill them before they shoot you? Check check and double check

That's not fully true for the main game, since stealth is a thing and you can evade with decent parkour skills, use slam attacks to down the targets and increase your damages, etc...

About raijack,  this true which is very sad, exept your parkour skills work inside to repare the ship but that's all... Enemies even shoot at you where you are invisible.
So yeah, it sounds lke they just want us to farm until we can do the "hard missions".

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22 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

Have you already installed upgraded parts on your railjack ?
The values increase by a lot when you get different parts, for a example Pulsar deal 52 damages per shot and goes to 185 with Zetki Pulsar Mk II. Some shield, engines and reactor are pretty strong too, but there are also some mods that do a lot especially when you increase both the mod and the mod slot.

From what I understand, Railjack missions are designed to be played multiple time and farm for resources and upgrades before trying higher level missions, which is not that bad. So just give it time and see how it goes.

Yes. It is that bad. Especially considering.....pustrels. 

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1 minute ago, lukinu_u said:

since stealth is a thing

Pressing a button and turning off any and all enemy AI? Sorry, but stealth being in the game as a skill based way of engaging the enemy is a really bad argument. There is no skill in stealth. Nobody can detect you unless you're dumb enough to run through a giant nullifier bubble.

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Starting out is the worst part in Empyrean.

Run Earth a few times, get your intrinsics up. Specifically, get the piloting intrinsics up so you can keep your mobility going. You can easily out-maneuver most attacks from Grineer ships.

Get your first few weapon parts, start building those and take a break.

Once you get replacement weapons, start running more missions and you should be able to complete the planet with a full set of Mk. 1 gear. Then go to Saturn, repeat the process.

Then go to Veil and pray to whatever god you have or don't have that you can survive long enough to get parts and finish the mission, because it is hard.

 

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1 hour ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Pressing a button and turning off any and all enemy AI? Sorry, but stealth being in the game as a skill based way of engaging the enemy is a really bad argument. There is no skill in stealth. Nobody can detect you unless you're dumb enough to run through a giant nullifier bubble.

What he means is that you can, even with low lvl gear, you can still sneak behind enemies, knock them down to give you time to kill them, etc...

But with Railjack, you don't have that option, it's either you're tanky enough to kill everyone, or everyone kills you as soon as you show up

Edited by Xenox_Ilz-ot
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18 minutes ago, Fleuretty said:

It's almost as if you're running a rank 0 frame with modless mk-1 weaponry in a sortie level mission. Stop trying to smash your head into a wall by bringing under-geared railjacks to missions they're not supposed to be able to handle easily and complain that it's too hard. The entire game is literally all about trivializing difficult content with high level mods and weapons, why do people think railjack is any different?

A week or two from now people are gonna be complaining how easy it is to clear T3 railjack missions when the higher-end weaponry finishes research.

The very first mission is already hard enough, it is not like the first mission of the game, not by far

Edited by Xenox_Ilz-ot
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à l’instant, AuroraSonicBoom a dit :

Pressing a button and turning off any and all enemy AI? Sorry, but stealth being in the game as a skill based way of engaging the enemy is a really bad argument. There is no skill in stealth. Nobody can detect you unless you're dumb enough to run through a giant nullifier bubble.

No I mean stealth, not "invulnerability until you get hit by a random corups grenade, aka invisiblity". So killing alone enemies one to one and use silent weapons to get the job done without enemies seeing you, not pressing a freaking button and kill everything with rockets launcher without being seen because "you're invisible".

Stealth is rarely a viable option at average and late game, but it's definitely usable and skillful (compared to other warframe mechanics) and allow you do to play missions above what you could do with your current loadout.

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32 минуты назад, Fazel412 сказал:

We definitely need more archwing mods, at the very least. The mods we have as is... is seriously lacking. Making archguns into projectile is also kind of a bad move since enemy fighters are so damn agile, and anyone can tell you that hitting a moving target is much harder than hitting a stationary. At least Amesha's 3 works...

The railjack definitely could use a boost or two. It's like a battleship with the durability and armament of a patrol ship.

The gameplay itself is fun, though. Always wanted a space battle simulator game, or something like that.

Honestly, with all the changes to arsewing, it's pretty clear DE doesn't want them actually used for combat in Railjack. My modded Amesha gets obliterated just on approach to crewship. Guns are borderline unusable against interceptors. Once I'm done leveling gunnery to get arsewing catapult, I'm never manually flying on them again in those missions.

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5 minutes ago, Serafim_94 said:

Honestly, with all the changes to arsewing, it's pretty clear DE doesn't want them actually used for combat in Railjack. My modded Amesha gets obliterated just on approach to crewship. Guns are borderline unusable against interceptors. Once I'm done leveling gunnery to get arsewing catapult, I'm never manually flying on them again in those missions.

Archwings are only usable up to Saturn, and only up to Saturn if you are using some pretty disgusting builds.

On Veil Proxima, if you aren't using the catapult you are losing the mission.

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Balance is great. After lvl 5 fly skill u can dodge most of atacks and rockets.

 

Right now on Veil Proxima.

My railjack with 2000 hp falls only 1-2 times per mission if I am a pilot.

 

so...

 

git gud and build fast engine

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23 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

That's not fully true for the main game, since stealth is a thing

Even stealth (or at least, combat stealth) relies on grinding. For example, Loki starts out with 5 seconds of invisibility, unless you level him up and give him some duration mods. Only Rescue Jails and Spy Vaults rely on actual skill for stealth (and by skill I mean patience and planning, but that's how stealth games work normally)

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il y a 7 minutes, TARINunit9 a dit :

Even stealth (or at least, combat stealth) relies on grinding. For example, Loki starts out with 5 seconds of invisibility, unless you level him up and give him some duration mods. Only Rescue Jails and Spy Vaults rely on actual skill for stealth (and by skill I mean patience and planning, but that's how stealth games work normally)

As mentionned earlier, I talk about actual stealth gameplay, not invisibility.

Edited by lukinu_u
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8 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Even stealth (or at least, combat stealth) relies on grinding. For example, Loki starts out with 5 seconds of invisibility, unless you level him up and give him some duration mods. Only Rescue Jails and Spy Vaults rely on actual skill for stealth (and by skill I mean patience and planning, but that's how stealth games work normally)

You can, theoretically, play Stealth combat without ever using a stealth frame using silent weapons and killing enemies before they see you.

You even have a tiny leniency window where you are detected but can still kill the enemy to prevent them from sounding alarms.

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54 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

The main source of frustration is that they imported the same style of "difficulty" as the rest of the game:

There is no skill, only grinding. You WILL take damage, but you grind for the ability to negate it. Enemies cannot be killed skillfully, only by having the right gun and mods ahead of time. If you grind enough, the enemies die and you win. If you don't grind enough, the enemies don't die and they shoot you to death

Now take a look at Railjack. Enemies just spawn and shoot relentlessly and surround you and you have to grind for the ability to negate the damage or the weapons to kill them before they shoot you? Check check and double check

One thing which makes an absolutely phenomenal amount of difference is picking up the early ranks of the Piloting skill tree. Suddenly, you can dodge enemy fire. It feels amazing, you see loads of missiles homing in and you juke left and they just coast on by.

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12 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

As mentionned earlier, I talk about actual stealth gameplay, not invisibility.

To which, apart from an affinity multiplier that you also get when using invisibility, there is no benefit apart from bragging rights. Yes, it is actually somewhat challenging and dare I say fun to clear a mission without invisibility or sleep mechanics and not get seen. People recorded doing it way back in '13, and the drive by the community to enhance stealth play, or simply give people rewards for taking longer per kill, was there for years. All DE implemented was an affinity multiplier, only works for kills, before nixing any talk about stealth as a whole.

Bottom line is, the game doesn't reward skill because all the progression centers around power creep. There is no stat ceiling that DE would never cross, and that's why you can't design things like spy vaults to be challenging unless you constantly revise them to take power creep into account.

That said, spy vaults were kinda of a fail in terms of providing a challenge from the get go, since perma invisibility existed back then already. Now with parazon mods, it's little more than a joke.

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1 hour ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

The very first mission is already hard enough, it is not like the first mission of the game, not by far

No it isn't, unless you're soloing it. With a full team a single player can invade crewships and blow them up from the inside while a single gunner coupled with the pilot (or just the pilot, if the gunner decides to go archwing) can take care of the fighters. All this with no revolite pre-stocked and no intrinsics.

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