Jump to content
Jade Shadows: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

[guide] Engineering & You (for budding engineers & those who can't stop touching the forge)


Argenex
 Share

Recommended Posts

[PSA] The Forge, Your Engineer & You

The Forge

  1. Has four stations that can operate at a time.
  2. Each station has a job time required when you craft something; base is 300 seconds <--- Needs clarification! [TBD]
    1. When a job is in process (during the cooldown), another job at that station can not be started.
      • The cooldown of the current job is not currently displaying when in mission. [BUG] So keep mental track of which station you use and come back to it last. FIXED
    2. Engineers Unlock the ability to craft Flux Energy at Rank 2, Ordnance (Missiles/Third Weapon/Munitions) at rank 3, and Dome Charges (Forward Artillery) at rank 5, during combat in the forge.
    3. Items crafted, appear to be available immediately, which helps in frantic-mid-combat builds. (Possibly due to ranks 2 and 3)
    4. Engineers receive a boost to forge yields at rank 4, by 25%, and another 25% at rank 7. (This is why you let the engineer craft stuff you naughty boarder!)
      • Increases the amount of consumables - namely Revolite, Flux Energy, Ordnance, and Dome Charges - crafted per use of the Forge.
    5. Engineers receive a boost to forge crafting speed at rank 6, by 25%. (This is why you let the engineer craft stuff you naughty gunner!)
      • Increases the speed of a forge station job, currently appears to set it at 215 seconds.
    6. Each station allows one to replenish one of the payloads.
      • It is SUPER nice if an engineer is doing this because;
        • Boosts obviously
        • Replenishes stock from a group pool of resources in-mission, instead of draining the hosts's own resources
          • This is because when you return to drydock, the host's dry dock will automatically replenish the payloads from the host's personal pool (could use better clarification TBD) No longer appears to be the case. Seems to need to be manually restocked by the host at the dock. It is still ultimately better to refine at end of mission, so you get the double yield of items, the host will still get more resources after refining so it technically will cost less in the dry dock.
  3. At the very top of the UI, you will see a Refine button
    • This refines all of the currently gathered "Group Resources" and dishes them out to everyone in the party.
    • The yield without boosters appear to be double what is in the forge; IE 200 Carbides yields 400 Carbides to everyone without boosters. <--- Needs Clarification [TBD]
    • It is very important to note that each resource, has a hold capacity of only 200
      • If a resource is at 200 and you don't need any payload immediately, refine it! Otherwise more resources of that type that are looted, are lost!
        • IMPORTANT! As of 12/20/19 and extensive testing, the overflow resources past the 200 cap picked up, will not be refined, but will still be "picked up" by the players, and in their inventory. You will not see a pop message however of this after refining, it will simply be in your mission rewards dialog as an extra total. Example: There are 200 Carbides in the refinery. You looted 16 more for the group. You refine the Carbides, everyone should see the typical 400 Carbides as a reward, but in the mission reward screen they will actually see 416 Carbides. (This does not include boosters or smeeta boost.) It is important to note that this is hard to track as players may pick up stuff in-station/ship as well. We tested this with 3 people over a several missions to figure this out.
        • Conclusion based upon the above; it is still best to refine whenever you hit the cap especially if you are in need of resources.
      • Currently 12/14/19, any resources NOT REFINED will be lost once you have left the mission!
      • When performing as an engineer, it is helpful to let everyone know you have finished refining before the host picks the next node or dry dock!
    • Engineers receive a boost to refine yields at rank 9, by 10%. (This is why you let the engineer refine stuff you naughty pilot!)
    • It also appears that the other ranks of engineer do indeed boost an engineer's refining more than players without. Still needs de-facto clarification to those amounts. When it is nailed down I will place that information here. [TBD]
      • This was simply due to the confusion as to both the mission reward screen, item-pop-up counts, and the jumbled way we are given factual information in-game. It appears that anyone hitting the refine button, who isn't an Engineer rank 9, will always net double the resources in the forge.
    • Bringing a Smeeta Kavat and getting the Doubled Pickups & Affinity Buff via Charm, also increase refining yields!
  4. There is an Avionic, which lowers the cooldown of all active stations, called "Battle Forge".
    • Accessed via the Tactical Menu (see point 5!)
    • Has a cooldown itself of 480 seconds. (8 minutes).
    • Unranked reduces cooldown of active stations by 35 seconds. (increased by 5 per rank)
  5. Rank 3 Tactical, gives you access to teleporting around the ship!
    • Make sure and double check the keybind for this, as it makes repairing and using the forge super easy! The default key is L.
    • You will see an overlay of the ship, and nodes you can click on to teleport there.
    • [WARNING] [BUG] If you have in your Options > Display, High Dynamic Range & Adaptive Exposure on, as soon as you teleport everything will be extremely dark! However if you disable those two, everything will be crazy and insanely bright! Maybe some day they will address this...

Your Engineer & You:

If you didn't read the above because you don't really have a hankerin' for tinkering with doohickeys and thingamabobs during a bunch of hullabaloo:

  1. Please let the engineer take care of the forge. It's their job.
  2. You don't need to refine things; let your competent engineer who has bonuses to the forge, refine the stuff.
  3. If you are really worried you won't get the preccccczzzzzious resources, ask before mission if the engineer knows about refining. Here's a sample question you can cut and paste:
    • If you're a new engie, don't forget to refine when a resource hits 200 and before we leave mission. Thanks!
  4. If you are a boarder and there is a minor lull in the combat, do your engineer a favor, quickly pop out and loot resources!
    • PLEASE loot the containers on ships & inside stations! They have preccccczzzzzious resources
      • Sadly these loot drops are Client-side only. If you are on a farming mission, let everyone else know that they can loot those areas before leaving, the drops are pretty darn high and help everyone else out tremendously.
    • Please loot stuff in space! That precious space loot goes into the group-pool resources, that the engineer needs to keep the boat afloat, literally!
      • These are also the resources the engineer refines with greater yields for everyone, you pick up 16 copernics, and get 48 in return! (spitball guess)
  5. If you are a pilot and do manage to see floaty cyan-glowing thingies, and as long as it doesn't compromise the mission, please zoom around and grab them
    • This helps a ton even during combat as enemies pretty much drop resources, avionics, and ship parts!
      • (I do realise that the view is kinda narrow, did you know that you can press the right+control button and switch to railjack camera view? 😎)
  6. If you are a gunner, please don't touch the forge, it's really very far from where you should be which is mowing down the enemy wholesale so your engineer feels safe as they tinker with doohickeys and thingamabobs! Keep them safe, mow down the enemy!
  7. Please let budding engineers know these things!

Engineer Rank Table (Courtesy of the wonderful folks who keep the wiki up to date thank you!)

From this Wiki Page

Rank Ability Description Notes
1 Applied Omni Accelerated hazard suppression and hull repair.
  • Increases the speed at which the Omni can repair various internal hazards, including fires, electrical faults, hull ruptures, and freezing.
2 Flux Forge Forge Flux Energy in realtime to power vessel Battle Avionics.
  • Unlocks the ability to craft Flux Energy at the Railjack's Forge during a mission.
3 Ordnance Forge Replenish combat Ordnance while deployed.
  • Unlocks the ability to craft Ordnance at the Railjack's Forge during a mission.
4 Optimization Pass Increase Forge yields by 25%.
  • Increases the amount of consumables - namely Revolite, Flux Energy, Ordnance, and Dome Charges - crafted per use of the Forge.
5 Dome Charge Forge Resupply forward Artillery cannon during combat.'
  • Unlocks the ability to craft Dome Charges at the Railjack's Forge during a mission.
6 Forge Accelerator Increase Forge processing speed by 25%.  
7 Full Optimization: . Further increase Forge yields by 25%.
  • Stacks with the previous Optimization Pass upgrade, increasing yields to a total of 50%.
8 Vigilant Archwing Increase Archwing defense. Health +30%, Shield +30%, and Armor +30%.  
9 Surplus Yield Increase Refinement yields by 10%.  
10 Anastasis Remotely repair onboard hazards.

Final Words blah blah yackity schmackity.

I actually have encountered during heavy battle, someone who re-boarded and immediatly refined everything right as I needed to make more repair goop. I asked them to disembark and go loot some more because we literally were out of repair goop. Repair Goop is Life!

I do realise of course, that eventually, everyone will have maxed out all Intrinsics; this is mostly for folks new to railjack and I also wanted to try and shed some light on a few things. Hopefully this post is helpful and at the least entertaining.

I will say this, so far when I join a group I quickly run down what I'm doing as an engineer, and that also helps tremendously. But I also use a microphone which vastly improves keeping the ship safe! I have been having a ton of fun with every group I have been in, I feel like this is the best update I have ever seen to Warframe after all of these years.

Have fun & thanks for reading.
(If anyone knows more specific numbers please let me know and I'll fix it, I sorta spitballed a couple of them.)

Edited by Argenex
  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Argenex said:

 

 

    • It is very important to note that each resource, has a hold capacity of only 200
      • If a resource is at 200 and you don't need any payload immediately, refine it! Otherwise more resources of that type that are looted, are lost!

 

Is this 100% confirmed? If so then that's a horrible design mechanic. Refining should be done individually for each material and have a refine percentage so you don't end up with nothing at all.

 

If you're 1 away from crafting a dome charge but have 200 of another item you're basically throwing that one down the drain the longer you wait.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, zakaryx said:

 

Is this 100% confirmed? If so then that's a horrible design mechanic. Refining should be done individually for each material and have a refine percentage so you don't end up with nothing at all.

 

If you're 1 away from crafting a dome charge but have 200 of another item you're basically throwing that one down the drain the longer you wait.

 

Yes, I've watched loot come in while I was waiting to replenish something several times. It simply is lost. So mostly, my policy is, depending on how far along we are in the mission and how things are going, if I've got at least half repair goop available, I will refine anything that hits 200 now.

Edit: I even checked that resource in mission tab real fast to see if the 16 that were picked up added to my reward pool, it didn't change. I'm not certain if that is intended or what.

Edited by Argenex
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I sure hope it's not intended. DE Rebecca did say on her twitter that one of their top issues to address it the refining process. I can't imagine how many resources we've been wasting, because our ship never took any damage, thus keeping the stocks at max capacity.

 

Not to mention when all four players leave the ship to go loot after the battle. Nobody's thinking about refining then.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, zakaryx said:

I sure hope it's not intended. DE Rebecca did say on her twitter that one of their top issues to address it the refining process. I can't imagine how many resources we've been wasting, because our ship never took any damage, thus keeping the stocks at max capacity.

 

Not to mention when all four players leave the ship to go loot after the battle. Nobody's thinking about refining then.

Indeed, when I first noticed the cap way back on Earth, I started just staying in the ship refining things; this is also how I learned about the payload replenishing when dry docking. I thought it was unfair that the host had to replenish so I sit in the rear with the gear and replenish then refine.

What I don't understand, is why there is a capacity limit at all to begin with?
I don't see the game mechanic advantage of it I guess.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Argenex said:

 

  1. At the very top of the UI, you will see a Refine button
    • This refines all of the currently gathered "Group Resources" and dishes them out to everyone in the party.
    • The yield without boosters appear to be double what is in the forge; IE 200 Carbides yields 400 Carbides to everyone without boosters

You get an extra 20%, or 30% with the Engineering perk

21 minutes ago, zakaryx said:

 

Is this 100% confirmed? If so then that's a horrible design mechanic. Refining should be done individually for each material and have a refine percentage so you don't end up with nothing at all.

It's a bug that's getting fixed early next week, from my understanding.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Chebinger said:

You get an extra 20%, or 30% with the Engineering perk

It's a bug that's getting fixed early next week, from my understanding.

It's 10% at rank 9 for resource refining yield.

From what I can tell, the forge processing yields, at rank 4 and 7, simply give the engineer more of a payload when they craft it.

Edited by Argenex
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Argenex said:

Engineers receive a boost to refine yields at rank 9, by 10%. (This is why you let the engineer refine stuff you naughty pilot!)

Just as a note, the regular forge yield boosts also seem to apply to refining.  At least the loot popups after I hit refine have all been 25% higher than the amounts shown in the forge.  No idea whether or not this is intended.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really appreciate what you've done here. I'm trying to become an effective engineer, but I'm having difficulty understanding some of the information. Primarily rank 2 and 3 of the engineering intrinsic. For the life of me I cannot figure out what they do or how to utilize them. Can you help me out?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, zuraja said:

Just as a note, the regular forge yield boosts also seem to apply to refining.  At least the loot popups after I hit refine have all been 25% higher than the amounts shown in the forge.  No idea whether or not this is intended.

Not really. Refined with Engineering Rank 4 and 7, no change. Always 480 with resource booster.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Argenex said:

 

  1. At the very top of the UI, you will see a Refine button
    • This refines all of the currently gathered "Group Resources" and dishes them out to everyone in the party.
    • The yield without boosters appear to be double what is in the forge; IE 200 Carbides yields 400 Carbides to everyone without boosters. <--- Needs Clarification TBD
    • It is very important to note that each resource, has a hold capacity of only 200

 

As an engineer, I should clarify this part. the Boost appears to give you 20% of the amount back as a bonus, and I've seen to notice my cat when resource double is up that it can double the refine. [the double resource cat thing is still <---- TBD....] So the norm is 240 at 200 and 480 when doubled. There is a possibility that there are stuff that increases the forge capacity, and if true means it can hold more for refining at once. also side note I would recommend to put in here for engineers; before everyone leaves the ship to go grab rocks for resources at the end of the mission, refine the current materials so you can get more resources to refine instead of the 200

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Flameduel said:

As an engineer, I should clarify this part. the Boost appears to give you 20% of the amount back as a bonus, and I've seen to notice my cat when resource double is up that it can double the refine. [the double resource cat thing is still <---- TBD....] So the norm is 240 at 200 and 480 when doubled. There is a possibility that there are stuff that increases the forge capacity, and if true means it can hold more for refining at once. also side note I would recommend to put in here for engineers; before everyone leaves the ship to go grab rocks for resources at the end of the mission, refine the current materials so you can get more resources to refine instead of the 200

The Smeeta Kavat buff works.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Tyrellus said:

I really appreciate what you've done here. I'm trying to become an effective engineer, but I'm having difficulty understanding some of the information. Primarily rank 2 and 3 of the engineering intrinsic. For the life of me I cannot figure out what they do or how to utilize them. Can you help me out?

Rank 2:

Forge Flux Energy (The energy used by battle ability intrinsics) in realtime to power vessel Battle Avionics.

-This should mean that when you use the forge to craft more flux energy, it is added right away to the flux energy pull and usable right away. However, as I mentioned, this appears to be true for everything that you craft during a mission, so either that is broken wholesale or it's a rather pointless rank attribute. OR, all of the ranks up to 7 combine to give the engineer the ability to insta-craft payload making it all available immediately although the forge is on a cooldown. Thing is not everything is explained very well...

Rank 3:

Ordnance Forge; Replenish combat Ordnance while deployed.

-Honestly, this sounds just like rank 2 only for missles (The straight shot missles, or whatever ordnance you have in that slot, the third slot from the top of munitions installed on the railjack). I can only guess, that without Rank 2 and 3, anyone trying to craft stuff during a mission, must be forced to wait for the job to complete?

Considering that the first couple ranks are rather cheap, most people even now probably have rank 1 to 2 engineer even if they literally don't focus on it. But still, this is kind of another good reason to let the engineer do all of that.

Edited by Argenex
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Argenex said:

Rank 2:

Forge Flux Energy (The energy used by battle ability intrinsics) in realtime to power vessel Battle Avionics.

-This should mean that when you use the forge to craft more flux energy, it is added right away to the flux energy pull and usable right away. However, as I mentioned, this appears to be true for everything that you craft during a mission, so either that is broken wholesale or it's a rather pointless rank attribute. OR, all of the ranks up to 7 combine to give the engineer the ability to insta-craft payload making it all available immediately although the forge is on a cooldown. Thing is not everything is explained very well...

Rank 3:

Ordnance Forge; Replenish combat Ordnance while deployed.

-Honestly, this sounds just like rank 2 only for missles (The straight shot missles, or whatever ordnance you have in that slot, the third slot from the top of munitions installed on the railjack). I can only guess, that without Rank 2 and 3, anyone trying to craft stuff during a mission, must be forced to wait for the job to complete?

Considering that the first couple ranks are rather cheap, most people even now probably have rank 1 to 2 engineer even if they literally don't focus on it. But still, this is kind of another good reason to let the engineer do all of that.

Thanks for responding. 

I opened a topic of my own to see if anyone knew the answer, and it seems that without those ranks you can't even forge flux or munitions with the railjack forge. Anybody may forge them at the dock, but not on mission. 

If you have information contradictory to that,  please let me know. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tyrellus said:

Thanks for responding. 

I opened a topic of my own to see if anyone knew the answer, and it seems that without those ranks you can't even forge flux or munitions with the railjack forge. Anybody may forge them at the dock, but not on mission. 

If you have information contradictory to that,  please let me know. 

Sounds like when I take a break next, I should just add a small table explaining each engineer rank. As usual the wording of things doesn't immediatly give one the absolute knowledge of what something does. I started from the get-go with engineer ranks so I really haven't noticed the differences. Glad you figured that out!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Argenex said:

Sounds like when I take a break next, I should just add a small table explaining each engineer rank. As usual the wording of things doesn't immediatly give one the absolute knowledge of what something does. I started from the get-go with engineer ranks so I really haven't noticed the differences. Glad you figured that out!

That's a good idea.

Truly. It isn't very clear with the descriptions on some of those.

Thank you. I appreciate your work, and good luck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2019-12-15 at 10:36 AM, Chebinger said:

You get an extra 20%, or 30% with the Engineering perk

It's a bug that's getting fixed early next week, from my understanding.

Sweet, But are u sure? Is there need to leave a comment on the 27.03 hot-fix about the refining stuff? Maybe they could add a short tutorial about how to use all guns, avionics (Incl battle and the other one) and forge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2019-12-15 at 2:05 AM, Argenex said:

f you are a boarder and there is a minor lull in the combat, do your engineer a favor, quickly pop out and loot resources!

  • PLEASE loot the containers on ships & inside stations! They have preccccczzzzzious resources

I actually tested this last night but pickups from inside ships and bases are not shared with the rest of your team, nor do they go to the forge (people reported picking up Pustrels but they didn't become usable at the forge for making omnis), only the person that picks them up gets them.
This also applies to any BPs  (Rip Quellor BP, since I was a pilot keeping the ship alive and it dropped in a asteroid base I didn't get it when it blew up) and mods you might pick up in bases/ships.

Further once the mission "ends" and you get your bonus rewards if no one is on the ship/base you can't enter it meaning those resources/mods/bps are lost to everyone else!
SO the best strategy is once you clear out the area and board the base/ship at the end keep one person on it until everyone has a chance to loot from it or they will miss out on the mods/resources.

Only space drops are shared with everyone on the team.

Edited by Tsukinoki
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2019-12-15 at 3:05 AM, Argenex said:

Rank 3 Tactical, gives you access to teleporting around the ship!

  • Make sure and double check the keybind for this, as it makes repairing and using the forge super easy! The default key is L.
  • You will see an overlay of the ship, and nodes you can click on to teleport there.

 

Wow...I was losing my mind trying to figure this out. Thanks. 

L doesn't seem very intuitive. I have never bound anything to the L key in my life. Lol

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

I actually tested this last night but pickups from inside ships and bases are not shared with the rest of your team, nor do they go to the forge (people reported picking up Pustrels but they didn't become usable at the forge for making omnis), only the person that picks them up gets them.
This also applies to any BPs  (Rip Quellor BP, since I was a pilot keeping the ship alive and it dropped in a asteroid base I didn't get it when it blew up) and mods you might pick up in bases/ships.

Further once the mission "ends" and you get your bonus rewards if no one is on the ship/base you can't enter it meaning those resources/mods/bps are lost to everyone else!
SO the best strategy is once you clear out the area and board the base/ship at the end keep one person on it until everyone has a chance to loot from it or they will miss out on the mods/resources.

Only space drops are shared with everyone on the team.

Yup. I guess I should have mentioned that, Sometimes boarders will purposely not toast all the crewships and leave them unmanned and floating so that everyone else can enter and loot them. I will update that section to reflect that issue.

I have been able to enter stations & ships after the mission is complete to loot stuff. Mostly its communicating well with your group so that everyone can benefit the most from each mission.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...