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DrakeWurrum

Can't seem to kill RJ enemies with AW

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I dont know if this is some client side stuff but I noticed that some of the greener ships, like fighters, regen their health at abnormal speeds.

If you dont have enough DPS then they just regen their health to full in under 5 secs.

Basically you need to have enough fire power and ammo to kill it because if you have to reload then it will regen instantly.

Rad-cold Imperator Vandal with its massive ammo pool will still wreck them though.

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3 hours ago, H.Katsura_999 said:

I dont know if this is some client side stuff but I noticed that some of the greener ships, like fighters, regen their health at abnormal speeds.

If you dont have enough DPS then they just regen their health to full in under 5 secs.

Basically you need to have enough fire power and ammo to kill it because if you have to reload then it will regen instantly.

Rad-cold Imperator Vandal with its massive ammo pool will still wreck them though.

In the Veil the crew ships spit out expanding white orbs that heal things inside them and eat shots like nullifier bubbles. Half the time they are invisible to clients.

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11 minutes ago, Hedrax said:

In the Veil the crew ships spit out expanding white orbs that heal things inside them and eat shots like nullifier bubbles. Half the time they are invisible to clients.

I see, so thats why. I cant see the effects because I was a client.

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5 hours ago, Skye_Archer said:

 

If side gunners are having a problem hitting fighters, then don't put APOC weapons on the side gunnary slot, the thing is for them again it is also a matter of being accustomed the ship moving around whilst they are trying to shoot stuff... Precision weapons like the APOC class of weapons isn't ideal unless they're hitting somehting very big... however there is one railjack weapon which is similar to the archwing Fluctus which fires like a wave like AOE, and that will hit a large area.. I forgot which weapon type it is but it has a massive heat gain, but it hits hard (very large damage values compared to similar mk weapons) and has a fairly large aoe hit radius... You may want to put these weapons on your side gunner slots on your railjack.

The thing is as a pilot if you got gunners on your ship, you can't fly as if you were flying a single seat jet fighter, you can't make sudden movements, everything needs to be smooth and gradual to allow your gunners to become accustomed to the pilot's movement of the railjack... This can be a lot harder when the pilot can not take into account the gunner's lag to the host or indeed their own lag...

i believe you're talking about the cryophon. i've never used it myself but the ingame description matches yours. also, like you said earlier, i do believe it is just a mattar of practice. i've played many many hours of guns of icarus online, so i took to gunning in railjack like a duck to water, but i remember back when i was first starting in that game, leading a moving target from a moving firing position is quite difficult, especially when both are moving somewhat unpredictably.

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15 hours ago, HyokaChan said:

composite elements kind of "don't exist" except for blast.

they kinda exist, however they have no status procs.

while they are shown as "non-specific-damage" they still interact with the individual damage resistances of the enemies.

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20 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

So I noticed, but I still don't know what the Rank 5 even DOES. How does it work? The description doesn't apply to me because it involves holding and releasing the Sprint/Boost key while I use Toggle Sprint. Near as I can tell, it's basically a held bullet jump. I initiate a Slide, Boost during the Slide to move REALLY fast, then disable the Boost which shoots me forward (always forward, regardless of which direction I'm pressing) with velocity relative to how long I Slide-Boosted? Am I reading this correctly? Because yes, with that Intrinsic the Railjack does become pretty damn fast, as long as it has boost meter.

Yep that's it, faster than archwings.

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20 hours ago, HyokaChan said:

Elements in Railjack combat were re-named:
Impact: ballistics
Puncture: plasma
Slash: particle

Heat: Incendiary 
Electric: Ionic
Cold: Frost
Toxin: Chem

composite elements kind of "don't exist" except for blast.

Well I dunno about that, their status don't match the ones you listed.

For example, Chem acts like Radiation, makes them shoot eachother, Plasma acts as both Heat and Magnetic, reducing armor and shields.

The wiki was updated with the railjack types: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Damage#Railjack_Damage

 

But there's no concrete corelation with the regular damage types, the scanner says the fighters have alloy armor and alloy armor: 2Wxge6x.png

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To answer the original post relevantly.... aim for the glowing jet engine first. It will temporarily immobilize the ship for the kill.

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53 minutes ago, HunterDigi said:

Well I dunno about that, their status don't match the ones you listed.

For example, Chem acts like Radiation, makes them shoot eachother, Plasma acts as both Heat and Magnetic, reducing armor and shields.

The wiki was updated with the railjack types: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Damage#Railjack_Damage

 

But there's no concrete corelation with the regular damage types, the scanner says the fighters have alloy armor and alloy armor: 2Wxge6x.png

Their status effects don't match, but the damage type does. For example, if you go into archwing and shoot them with a main toxin status weapon, you will proc chem effect.

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14 hours ago, Mackanstein said:

Codex indicates Kosma ships have Alloy armor.

Ugh... I'm going to have to jump out in my Archwing and scan spaceships, aren't I? Thanks for the info regardless.

 

14 hours ago, Skye_Archer said:

If side gunners are having a problem hitting fighters, then don't put APOC weapons on the side gunnary slot, the thing is for them again it is also a matter of being accustomed the ship moving around whilst they are trying to shoot stuff... Precision weapons like the APOC class of weapons isn't ideal unless they're hitting somehting very big... however there is one railjack weapon which is similar to the archwing Fluctus which fires like a wave like AOE, and that will hit a large area.. I forgot which weapon type it is but it has a massive heat gain, but it hits hard (very large damage values compared to similar mk weapons) and has a fairly large aoe hit radius... You may want to put these weapons on your side gunner slots on your railjack.

I would if I had access to anything BUT Apoc turrets... I mean, I swapped the side guns to the default Pulsar the game starts me out with and that helped. My side gunners are now consistently able to hit fighters on orthogonal flight paths due to the weapon being hitscan, but that came at the cost of a major damage reduction. I'll try and get myself a Carcinox for the side guns since that seels like a good balance between decent DPS, fast rate of fire and a fast-travelling projectile. These cannons are NOT cheap, however, and Railjack's rewards currently have too much of a habit of just disappearing from my inventory.

The weapon you're describing there is the Cryohon - the cold blast cannon. That's not bad either, but I personally don't like it due to its substantial heat build up. You can only really fire a few shots before waiting on cooldown, and the projectile is REALLY slow. You can reasonably hit fighters up-close with it, but reliability drastically drops off with distance. So far, the Carcinox seems to be the best choice for a side gun, at least for me.

Realistically speaking, I feel the pilot can afford to have a harder-to-use gun due to controlling the ship. It's easier to force fighters to come at you or run away from you when you control the vessel, not so much when you're on the side guns. So I'll probably leave the pilot with an Apoc or something similar, but move the side guns to Carcinox or Pulsar, as resources (and bugs) permit.

 

14 hours ago, Skye_Archer said:

The thing is as a pilot if you got gunners on your ship, you can't fly as if you were flying a single seat jet fighter, you can't make sudden movements, everything needs to be smooth and gradual to allow your gunners to become accustomed to the pilot's movement of the railjack... This can be a lot harder when the pilot can not take into account the gunner's lag to the host or indeed their own lag...

I strongly disagree. Keeping the ship stable is the PROBLEM with side guns, rather than the solution. I don't have trouble aiming at the enemy's lead indicator, I have a problem with that lead indicator constantly changing as the enemy ship flies circles around mine. A pilot who can successfully disengage from enemy fighters and force them to approach us dead-on does a lot more for the side gunners than a pilot holding a steady course. The issue I have with fighters isn't my "accuracy." It's that shooting at the lead indicator doesn't help when they're flying in circles, and they fly in circles a lot once they're near my ship.

 

8 hours ago, Podge said:

like you said earlier, i do believe it is just a mattar of practice. i've played many many hours of guns of icarus online, so i took to gunning in railjack like a duck to water, but i remember back when i was first starting in that game, leading a moving target from a moving firing position is quite difficult, especially when both are moving somewhat unpredictably.

Wile that might be true, I've yet to find a reliable way to hit an enemy fighter flying in a circle. As I said - the lead indicator does nothing in that case, as the ship's trajectorly constantly changes. I guess DE could update to indicator to account for angular moment as well as linear momentum and that MIGHT help a little but. But as it stands, the only way to hit those ships reliably with slower projectiles is to simply GUESS where they're going to in the 2 seconds or so it takes for my shots to fly in a lot of cases. You're likely better at this than I am, but I feel the system is needlessly punishing for most of the available guns.

Additionally, the game gives us no distance indicators, so it's hard to judge how long my shots will take to reach the target anyway. If my currently locked target displayed distance in meters then maybe lining up my shots might be a bit easier, but right now there's just too much eyeballing in a game where we lack binocular vision.

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4 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

I strongly disagree. Keeping the ship stable is the PROBLEM with side guns, rather than the solution. I don't have trouble aiming at the enemy's lead indicator, I have a problem with that lead indicator constantly changing as the enemy ship flies circles around mine. A pilot who can successfully disengage from enemy fighters and force them to approach us dead-on does a lot more for the side gunners than a pilot holding a steady course. The issue I have with fighters isn't my "accuracy." It's that shooting at the lead indicator doesn't help when they're flying in circles, and they fly in circles a lot once they're near my ship.

 

If I sound patronizing here, that is not my intent. It would help a lot if I could visually see what you are seeing rather than try to visualise it from what you have written.. That aside gonna make a lot of assumptions here.

Just so I ain't confused, are you talking about that spinning thing they do or they literally fly around your railjack in a circle? If it's the former, I've found these super easy to hit... Based on your reply I'm assuming it's the latter, that is fairly common AI flaw in space combat sims, it's not something new to Space combat sims. What you do here is you need your pilot to fly in a straight line rather than try to "out stare/maneuver" the AI, this will break the AI loop as it completes the AI string it is attempting, otherwise it will keep flying in a circle around you trying to complete that AI string. This can also happen if you stop your ship in a sweet spot that causes the AI not to complete that AI command too, but this is only really common in early space combat sims, you shouldn't really see it these days.

Now the other thing, the lead indicator isn't ever an exact point to hit a target. If you don't already you need to get it out of your head it's an exact spot on target... Depending on the game you are playing, certain AI maneuvers you actually need to lead the target indicator or lag behind it slightly compared to normal (this I have noticed in railjack)... In some other games this will change based on the ship weapon you are using (slower moving projectiles, you lead; faster projectiles, you lag behind)(not sure this mechanic is present in warframe's railjack, as I've only used APOC weapons extensively, and the others very briefly), 

Now all that aside, judging by what you have written in other replies, I suspect you are seeing something that is akin to lag... cause it sounds like you are talking about very janky/jerky unpredictable movements.. I've not seen this in Railjack mostly because I've been hosting, and whenever I join another person's railjack and if it takes longer than a second to connect to their game, I force close warframe and find another group that I can connect to better... But that aside it sounds very similar to what I used to see playing Jump To Lightspeed in SWG when for whatever reason my connection to their servers had issues. Ships would just place about everywhere, there is no smoothness in movement at all in the AI.. If this is what you are seeing, then it's frankly an unplayable game. So with regards to warframe, if you are hosting and seeing this, then something is seriously wrong, if you're on someone else's railjack, you need to find another host

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10 minutes ago, Skye_Archer said:

Just so I ain't confused, are you talking about that spinning thing they do or they literally fly around your railjack in a circle? If it's the former, I've found these super easy to hit... Based on your reply I'm assuming it's the latter, that is fairly common AI flaw in space combat sims, it's not something new to Space combat sims. What you do here is you need your pilot to fly in a straight line rather than try to "out stare/maneuver" the AI, this will break the AI loop as it completes the AI string it is attempting, otherwise it will keep flying in a circle around you trying to complete that AI string. This can also happen if you stop your ship in a sweet spot that causes the AI not to complete that AI command too, but this is only really common in early space combat sims, you shouldn't really see it these days.

That would be the latter, and not even circles around my ship. Sometimes enemy fighters will just double back on themselves for seemingly no reason. Their behaviour when near my ship is chaotic and turbulent, causing them to switch direction rapidly and unpredictably, making it damn near impossible - for me anyway - to anticipate where they're going to go. If they flew in at least somewhat ballistic trajectories or some kind of strafing runs - some kind of pattern I could easily predict - this would be one thing. As it stands, it's like trying to shoot a fly in a hurricane. And yes, a proper pilot can usually pull enemy fighters out of this, either by disengaging or by straight-up chasing them. I've had good results boosting after a fighter. At THAT point they stop trying to out-turn me and just fly away, giving me easy shots. The problem is that that's something the pilot can do that door gunners can't. In an ideal world with a skilled pilot on voice comms this could be doable, but we don't live in a perfect world. We live in a world where I need to expect a random pubbie to fly my ship, meaning I can't rely on the pilot to set me up for shots. Consequently, I intend to fit my door gunners with potentially weaker guns, but guns which are easier to hit chaotically-moving targets with... As soon as I'm able, anyway.

 

15 minutes ago, Skye_Archer said:

Now the other thing, the lead indicator isn't ever an exact point to hit a target. If you don't already you need to get it out of your head it's an exact spot on target... Depending on the game you are playing, certain AI maneuvers you actually need to lead the target indicator or lag behind it slightly compared to normal (this I have noticed in railjack)... In some other games this will change based on the ship weapon you are using (slower moving projectiles, you lead; faster projectiles, you lag behind)(not sure this mechanic is present in warframe's railjack, as I've only used APOC weapons extensively, and the others very briefly), 

Oh, I'm aware. The lead indicator is only accurate if the enemy ship continues to move in a fixed direction at a fixed speed, and so isn't applicable to a ship pulling off turns. I rather believe it should be - the math about it isn't THAT hard, even if it's also not going to be perfectly reliable. The problem, though, is that this leaves me with the same initial problem - I need to lead a target with no real ability to read its heading, speed or even distance from me. The lead indicator is a good reference for the former two, but without an actual distance gauge I'm still eyeballing it... And it appears my eyeballs are not very well-calibrated. I honestly don't see why we CAN'T have a distance gauge, even if it's not entirely accurate. Let's face it - no distance measurement outside the Railjack is ever going to be accurate when viewed from inside due to the camera hack DE used to render the outside. Our view out the ship will always be offset by 50-100 meters just based on where we THINK we are vs. where we're actually viewing from. Even then, a 50-100 meters discrepancy is still fine if I can tell the difference between a small ship at 300 meters and a slightly larger ship at 600 meters and a Crew Ship at 2 Km without having to mouse over them and wait for the game to show me a name.

Point being, I feel DE went too hard on the "flight sim" and have produced an aiming experience that's just too hard to handle relative to pretty much every other part of the game. If the distances are going to stay as they are, then I'd like for either projectiles to fly faster or for the enemy AI to not fidget around as much when close to my ship. Because right now it seems like they're trying to fly parallel to me keeping distance rather than making runs on me like I feel they should be.

 

21 minutes ago, Skye_Archer said:

Now all that aside, judging by what you have written in other replies, I suspect you are seeing something that is akin to lag... cause it sounds like you are talking about very janky/jerky unpredictable movements.

I mean, maybe? But I don't think so, since I very often host my own Railjack games. I just think the AI pathing is janky on its own. As I said before - it feels like enemy fighters prioritise orbiting my Railjack over doing passes, which is what I think the main issue is. While it's been 20 years since I played Descent Freespace and I might just be getting old, I don't remember any of this in that game. There, I was able to go full throttle and chase enemy fighters as we tried to out-turn each other. If I ever stood still, they'd rush me, shoot and rush past. Fighters in Railjack will only do that if they're engaging me from a distance. The first time they pass by me, they slow down and start orbiting me like flies, at which point hitting them becomes a nightmare unless my pilot is able to slide-boost (I guess that's what we're calling the Railjack bullet jump) sufficiently far away to push the fighters back into an actual approach vector. THEN we can actually get shots on them, up until they close distance and start orbiting again. I've even had plenty of success just slide-boosting backwards out of their engagement range, which seems to similarly make them chase me.

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