(Exhaustive) Hydroid rework REFORMATTED

[kapn655321]

7 minutes ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

Since mechanics like rubble, spores, restraint are all fairly simple it might be safe to reduce the complication of his passive

The pools are something many people have discussed in previous threads.
Much like Atlas' Rubble, these work in the same way as remainders that build the meter.
It's like Ember's meter in the respect that enemies effected activate it, but without exhausting energy for damage.
It's like Atlas in that it's scattered, but instead of buffing defense, works into passive CC and range bonus.
The stacking meter per enemy afflicted is the good side of Ember and Saryn's meter.
The bad part of embers, is that it's a narrow margin that cost's folks energy.
There's been no unanimous problems with Atlas or Saryn's meters, because there's no negative.
So I put no negative into this one.. and increased utility is far cheaper in a kit than damage/reduction.

The pools are passive bi-products, that could be utilized to a small degree to help guide where you want CC.
.It's a lot to explain, but in practice it would be really minor, and not something to focus on as much as to mark areas of influence.
Things get deep when you try to have a provision for every player I possibly can in mind.
Besides... water is deep, and leaves puddles.. so the kit should respect that in both spirit and function.
I can understand it looking like a lot for a passive, but it's not deeper than our current passives,
and is very reserved in it's influence, which still having a tangible effect.

Perhaps there's a better way to word it or work it, and I'm open to suggestions. 😃
Thanks for the reply.

 

[NuclearCoffeePot]

5 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

Much like Atlas' Rubble, these work in the same way as remainders that build the meter.
It's like Ember's meter in the respect that enemies effected activate it, but without exhausting energy for damage.
It's like Atlas in that it's scattered, but instead of buffing defense, works into passive CC and range bonus.

I see your point here but the difference is that rubble is a pickup that has no direct effect on enemies- the wet effect could simply be applied by abilities to generate additional tide meter per enemy effected-  with a puddle it effects enemies and assists hydroid at the same time no matter his location, a it's mechanics are a bit funky- ex: wet enemies have a chance to spawn a puddle- enemies get wet by stepping in puddles- get one enemy wet and with some rng you perpetually create a free cc debuf zone for enemies which(according to the list of wet effects- energy orbs chance on kill, slip while in puddle, weapon malfunction)-plus enemy debilitation from 1 it stacks up to be very active and has so much direct effect on the battlefield it could hardly be called a passive- it sounds more like an ability- imagine this for a second-

Ability- Tide pools- drain energy to randomly create tidepools around you and guarantee spawning in any area effected by other abilities-

Tidepools soak enemies with water, jamming weapon fire and causing them to return energy upon death-

🙂 - let that "sink" in- bad pun ill stop soon

[kapn655321]

16 minutes ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

🙂 - let that "sink" in

Other than tossing a whole ability for this, I already have one doing it.
The suggested effect is already in the Tidal Surge.
The reason I went for the passive is, it would be odd for one water based ability to start leaving wet spots,
and no other water ability doing it.

While convoluted, it was the most elegant way to work it in.

People want the puddles thematically, but basing a whole move around them would be underwhelming.
So they're just a peripheral effect.

You're right that at least some further parameters for the puddles should be explained.
It's a tough balance, whether to cover every bit of minutia so the parameters are clear,
or to leave some out to make it less daunting to read.
Balance isn't quite there yet.. though I'm not sure they ever could.

The catch for the endless CC loop was the timing for it.
May have messed up the numbers.. but the intent was to be statistically self exhausting.
I'll think this one over and get back to it tomorrow to see what I can do.

There's every chance with that much text that I overlooked a detail or condition.
...perhaps a diminishing return on duration so that can't happen..
Was also really cautious not to make them sound any more insignificant than they already are.

But, it's a totally fair call that it could use a looking over.
Likely have that in tomorrow afternoon.
Feel free to post here or DM me if you think of a way to fit the passive best.

To me, it's like how fire or spores are a bi-product,
but stay around generating their own respective benefit but purely utility.
If that doesn't sound like the result we'd have, or not in the right way,
then there's room for me to at least try to improve it.
I'll run it by you when I get something in mind.

Edited December 20, 2019 by kapn655321

[Wolfdoggie]

Hydroid's current passive doesn't even work with charged slam, to make it more disappointing.

[kapn655321]

19 hours ago, Wolfdoggie said:

Hydroid's current passive doesn't even work with charged slam, to make it more disappointing.

If you could add or change anything about Hydroid's kit, would what you do?

[Wolfdoggie]

2 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

If you could add or change anything about Hydroid's kit, would what you do?

I like his current powers so some simple tweaks I'd be happy with.

Make his passive 100% chance on slam and charged slam.

Give some form of damage scaling to his Barrage, it's outdated at this point and just tickles enemies, and it's CC is not needed when his Tentacles and Undertow revolve around it.

Allow steering with his Tidal and pressing it again to stop like Revenent's.

Hitting tentacles should damage enemies they're holding. Abilites that move enemies around randomly annoy teammates which is why that was already changed with Zephyr.

This one may be controversial but... Pilfering Swarm should be baseline rather than augment. His whole theme is being a Pirate. Pirates steal. Pilfering Swarm should be a normal part of him as much as Ivara's Prowl steal is a part of her.

 

[kapn655321]

6 hours ago, Wolfdoggie said:

Allow steering with his Tidal and pressing it again to stop like Revenent's.

Hitting tentacles should damage enemies they're holding.

I've added these suggestions and clarifications. Thank you for bringing those to my attention. 😃
*Also created an exception for energy cost total to be divided across total of distance% covered.
Meaning, stopping it early can conserve energy, without costing more for distance/range bonuses.

The loot being base function, I'd leave that to DE to do if they wished.
I feel that compromising for that would remove top end on other functions.

Frankly, I'm ok with All warframe's having a way to flex loot drop when needed,
but would not specifically wish that into Hydroid unless DE did that for others.
That augment might already be part of his balance. If it's core kit, it might result in a nerf.
Could just be paranoid there, but it gives me pause.

Edited December 23, 2019 by kapn655321

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

6 hours ago, Wolfdoggie said:

I like his current powers so some simple tweaks I'd be happy with.

Make his passive 100% chance on slam and charged slam.

Give some form of damage scaling to his Barrage, it's outdated at this point and just tickles enemies, and it's CC is not needed when his Tentacles and Undertow revolve around it.

Allow steering with his Tidal and pressing it again to stop like Revenent's.

Hitting tentacles should damage enemies they're holding. Abilites that move enemies around randomly annoy teammates which is why that was already changed with Zephyr.

This one may be controversial but... Pilfering Swarm should be baseline rather than augment. His whole theme is being a Pirate. Pirates steal. Pilfering Swarm should be a normal part of him as much as Ivara's Prowl steal is a part of her.

 

I absolutely love this! His tidal wave tho, i wish it grouped up enemies rather than ragdoll them. Especially when i have a few enemies and there is a swarm of enemies somewhere else. A quick carry to that location so that when i swing my melee weapon, ill hit more enemies would be lovely. 

But yea, i like youre ideas a lot! 

Edited December 23, 2019 by (PS4)IIFrost_GhostII

[kapn655321]

38 minutes ago, (PS4)IIFrost_GhostII said:

His tidal wave tho, i wish it grouped up enemies rather than ragdoll them.

This is what lead to me thinking of pull-to-location for "Thing From THE DEEP."
I'll think this one over to see how I can fit it in.

I feel like the ragdoll is only a big deal when you want to use it, not just disperse a crowd.
There's an advantage to being able to scatter enemies.. like when you're moving
through a clogged hallway full of high levels.. grouping them would make the clog worse.
However, there are situations where it would be absolutely handy.

Thanks for the feedback. Got to think over where I can make it work best for the option,
without it being inconvenient to use on the fly. Maybe Pirate Mode's waves group.. like,
tentacles can reach out to pull them in tight.. while non-pirate mode scatters.
*This has been added as such. Will update if necessary.

I'm open to suggestion.

Edited December 23, 2019 by kapn655321

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

17 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

through a clogged hallway full of high levels.. grouping them would make the clog worse.
However, there are situations where it would be

Sort of, but i mean like carrying type of grouping. As if the enemies get stuck inside the water while your a wave, and are carried to the location where your ability stops at

[kapn655321]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)IIFrost_GhostII said:

Sort of, but i mean like carrying type of grouping. As if the enemies get stuck inside the water while your a wave, and are carried to the location where your ability stops at

Right.
You would get this effect with my intended change, grouping and dragging enemies together in the wave
I'll see if I can't clean that up a bit to explain it better in the revision.
Also, maybe I do it the other way around. Any preference?
Would it make more sense to bunch them up in power mode, or disperse them?
Both have their advantage, so it's more a matter of which utility fits which mode best.

Thanks for clarifying. Just needs some tweaking, but I'll have that worked in for ya.

Edited December 23, 2019 by kapn655321