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Please don't forget about Liches now that Empyrean is out


Valfaun
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Yes, I know there are other topics about this already, but... 
Anyway, please don't forget about Liches now that Empyrean is already released. It's functional, for the most part, but not much beyond that and needs some fixes and improvements to become the cool thing it was meant to be. Right now, it's a rudimentarily implemented and very finite experience. Minor bugs and rough edges aside, there's just very little incentive to invest time into it after a certain point. I'm only about a dozen or two Liches in and already reached that point where motivation is waning fast and most weapons are inferior duplicates to the ones I already have. Considering their weapon is the only reward in this whole system, besides the rare Ephemera drops, that's not good. So if your Lich isn't generated with an Ephemera or a weapon that you want, you get absolutely nothing out of the ~2h time investment to hunt them down and try again. 

So here are some ideas with more or less involvement:

  • Requiem cards could really use a custom UI : Managing Requiems is somewhat janky. It's a bit annoying to keep track of your inventory the way they're handled now. My suggestion is a custom screen specifically tailored to Requiems, maybe something like this: 
     Kykp8vm.png
    Defiled Requiems could go into a sub-menu, kinda like the Scrap menu for Empyrean's Avionics
  • Converted Liches are pretty useless : Be honest, converted Liches are little more than tradable trophies. Now, this is a more complex idea that basically requires an entire new system for them. What if you could build a small team of ex-Liches to actually help you out? Say, you have 5 slots that you can populate with converted Liches, which take a certain role. I was thinking of Combat, Infiltration and Scavenging, for example.
    A Combat Lich could be actively deployed in missions to assist you, like a Specter or even Companion. They would retain their four abilities, revive you or squadmates when downed, maybe help capture points in Interceptions and generally be useful allies. You could have a few free deployments per day with the option to spend Kuva for more. Also only 1 Lich could be assigned to Combat at a time.
    Infiltrators could be gathering intel about your active Lich adversary, giving you a boost to murmur progression, passively making progress while you're doing other things, uncover the position of known Requiems if you're lucky. 
    Scavengers go out to get stuff for you and come back with all kinds of things after a while. Random resources, Kuva, relics, Forma, etc. 
    Liches could be generated with varying degrees of proficiency in those tasks, giving skilled Liches an efficiency bonus of some sort. Maybe a stat boost for Combat, Speed for Infiltration, Rarity for Scavenging. However, being robbed of their pseudo-immortality, deployed Liches take damage similar to extractors and need to be "maintained" with Kuva, else they'll eventually die. 
  • Going with the prior suggestion, Kuva weapons could be broken down into Kuva : I'm not sure why you insist on being rather stingy with Kuva in general and keeping Siphons the primary method of acquiring it. It takes a lot to roll a Riven just once after some cycles and it's most likely gonna be garbage again. Grinding Siphons isn't fun. There are arguably better ways to spend your time in Warframe. Getting a worthwhile amount of Kuva from a defeated Lich, however, would give you another incentive to go after them even when you're done with their weapon drops (and don't need to convert one). Why not let us turn Kuva Weapons into Kuva? Maybe... 100 Kuva per 1% of their damage bonus. 
  • That thing where they kill you unless you have the correct Requiem sequence : Yes. Steve said Liches are basically supposed to be an "antithesis" to your common enemy. They kick your butt for once. And I don't mind dying to an enemy that bested me. But, see... The Lich didn't best me. I merely lost the Requiem Roulette. My death doesn't feel justified there and it's just annoying. Why does my ability to stab the Lich depend on a Requiem anyway? To defeat them, yes, but to hit them with the Parazon in the first place? I don't know about that. As others suggested, please just let us stab them either way and they just come back to life stronger afterwards if we didn't bring the right combination. And so their finisher animations don't go to waste, make them alternate melee grab moves. Or make it so if we die near a Lich, we enter a special bleedout state instead (even when running solo). The Lich then approaches us and performs a finisher. 

Yeah. I think that's about it for this topic. I feel like there was something else, but I forgot

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5 hours ago, Valfaun said:

Yes, I know there are other topics about this already, but... 
Anyway, please don't forget about Liches now that Empyrean is already released. It's functional, for the most part, but not much beyond that and needs some fixes and improvements to become the cool thing it was meant to be. Right now, it's a rudimentarily implemented and very finite experience. Minor bugs and rough edges aside, there's just very little incentive to invest time into it after a certain point. I'm only about a dozen or two Liches in and already reached that point where motivation is waning fast and most weapons are inferior duplicates to the ones I already have. Considering their weapon is the only reward in this whole system, besides the rare Ephemera drops, that's not good. So if your Lich isn't generated with an Ephemera or a weapon that you want, you get absolutely nothing out of the ~2h time investment to hunt them down and try again. 

So here are some ideas with more or less involvement:

  • Requiem cards could really use a custom UI : Managing Requiems is somewhat janky. It's a bit annoying to keep track of your inventory the way they're handled now. My suggestion is a custom screen specifically tailored to Requiems, maybe something like this: 
     Kykp8vm.png
    Defiled Requiems could go into a sub-menu, kinda like the Scrap menu for Empyrean's Avionics
  • Converted Liches are pretty useless : Be honest, converted Liches are little more than tradable trophies. Now, this is a more complex idea that basically requires an entire new system for them. What if you could build a small team of ex-Liches to actually help you out? Say, you have 5 slots that you can populate with converted Liches, which take a certain role. I was thinking of Combat, Infiltration and Scavenging, for example.
    A Combat Lich could be actively deployed in missions to assist you, like a Specter or even Companion. They would retain their four abilities, revive you or squadmates when downed, maybe help capture points in Interceptions and generally be useful allies. You could have a few free deployments per day with the option to spend Kuva for more. Also only 1 Lich could be assigned to Combat at a time.
    Infiltrators could be gathering intel about your active Lich adversary, giving you a boost to murmur progression, passively making progress while you're doing other things, uncover the position of known Requiems if you're lucky. 
    Scavengers go out to get stuff for you and come back with all kinds of things after a while. Random resources, Kuva, relics, Forma, etc. 
    Liches could be generated with varying degrees of proficiency in those tasks, giving skilled Liches an efficiency bonus of some sort. Maybe a stat boost for Combat, Speed for Infiltration, Rarity for Scavenging. However, being robbed of their pseudo-immortality, deployed Liches take damage similar to extractors and need to be "maintained" with Kuva, else they'll eventually die. 
  • Going with the prior suggestion, Kuva weapons could be broken down into Kuva : I'm not sure why you insist on being rather stingy with Kuva in general and keeping Siphons the primary method of acquiring it. It takes a lot to roll a Riven just once after some cycles and it's most likely gonna be garbage again. Grinding Siphons isn't fun. There are arguably better ways to spend your time in Warframe. Getting a worthwhile amount of Kuva from a defeated Lich, however, would give you another incentive to go after them even when you're done with their weapon drops (and don't need to convert one). Why not let us turn Kuva Weapons into Kuva? Maybe... 100 Kuva per 1% of their damage bonus. 
  • That thing where they kill you unless you have the correct Requiem sequence : Yes. Steve said Liches are basically supposed to be an "antithesis" to your common enemy. They kick your butt for once. And I don't mind dying to an enemy that bested me. But, see... The Lich didn't best me. I merely lost the Requiem Roulette. My death doesn't feel justified there and it's just annoying. Why does my ability to stab the Lich depend on a Requiem anyway? To defeat them, yes, but to hit them with the Parazon in the first place? I don't know about that. As others suggested, please just let us stab them either way and they just come back to life stronger afterwards if we didn't bring the right combination. And so their finisher animations don't go to waste, make them alternate melee grab moves. Or make it so if we die near a Lich, we enter a special bleedout state instead (even when running solo). The Lich then approaches us and performs a finisher. 

Yeah. I think that's about it for this topic. I feel like there was something else, but I forgot

Well see a rework to conclave and lor before thet revisit this lmao. We all know DE fixes things 3 years later

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I don't think they're going to forget about liches because it feels like a lot of the current lich systems are placeholders because the lich system was supposed to be much more integrated with Railjack, and they basically split liches off to give players some content, same with why Railjack is being dropped with only core functionality.

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They already said converted Liches are going to be part of the Railjack crew. Original preview of railjack at tennocon or devstream showed a Kuva Lich vessel which we attack from Railjack. They also said Corpus versions will come one day. I doubt they forgot. It's more like we treat several days passing as several years and expect changes and tweaks to come immediately. 

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10 hours ago, Valfaun said:

Yes, I know there are other topics about this already, but... 
Anyway, please don't forget about Liches now that Empyrean is already released. It's functional, for the most part, but not much beyond that and needs some fixes and improvements to become the cool thing it was meant to be. Right now, it's a rudimentarily implemented and very finite experience. Minor bugs and rough edges aside, there's just very little incentive to invest time into it after a certain point. I'm only about a dozen or two Liches in and already reached that point where motivation is waning fast and most weapons are inferior duplicates to the ones I already have. Considering their weapon is the only reward in this whole system, besides the rare Ephemera drops, that's not good. So if your Lich isn't generated with an Ephemera or a weapon that you want, you get absolutely nothing out of the ~2h time investment to hunt them down and try again. 

So here are some ideas with more or less involvement:

  • Requiem cards could really use a custom UI : Managing Requiems is somewhat janky. It's a bit annoying to keep track of your inventory the way they're handled now. My suggestion is a custom screen specifically tailored to Requiems, maybe something like this: 
     Kykp8vm.png
    Defiled Requiems could go into a sub-menu, kinda like the Scrap menu for Empyrean's Avionics
  • Converted Liches are pretty useless : Be honest, converted Liches are little more than tradable trophies. Now, this is a more complex idea that basically requires an entire new system for them. What if you could build a small team of ex-Liches to actually help you out? Say, you have 5 slots that you can populate with converted Liches, which take a certain role. I was thinking of Combat, Infiltration and Scavenging, for example.
    A Combat Lich could be actively deployed in missions to assist you, like a Specter or even Companion. They would retain their four abilities, revive you or squadmates when downed, maybe help capture points in Interceptions and generally be useful allies. You could have a few free deployments per day with the option to spend Kuva for more. Also only 1 Lich could be assigned to Combat at a time.
    Infiltrators could be gathering intel about your active Lich adversary, giving you a boost to murmur progression, passively making progress while you're doing other things, uncover the position of known Requiems if you're lucky. 
    Scavengers go out to get stuff for you and come back with all kinds of things after a while. Random resources, Kuva, relics, Forma, etc. 
    Liches could be generated with varying degrees of proficiency in those tasks, giving skilled Liches an efficiency bonus of some sort. Maybe a stat boost for Combat, Speed for Infiltration, Rarity for Scavenging. However, being robbed of their pseudo-immortality, deployed Liches take damage similar to extractors and need to be "maintained" with Kuva, else they'll eventually die. 
  • Going with the prior suggestion, Kuva weapons could be broken down into Kuva : I'm not sure why you insist on being rather stingy with Kuva in general and keeping Siphons the primary method of acquiring it. It takes a lot to roll a Riven just once after some cycles and it's most likely gonna be garbage again. Grinding Siphons isn't fun. There are arguably better ways to spend your time in Warframe. Getting a worthwhile amount of Kuva from a defeated Lich, however, would give you another incentive to go after them even when you're done with their weapon drops (and don't need to convert one). Why not let us turn Kuva Weapons into Kuva? Maybe... 100 Kuva per 1% of their damage bonus. 
  • That thing where they kill you unless you have the correct Requiem sequence : Yes. Steve said Liches are basically supposed to be an "antithesis" to your common enemy. They kick your butt for once. And I don't mind dying to an enemy that bested me. But, see... The Lich didn't best me. I merely lost the Requiem Roulette. My death doesn't feel justified there and it's just annoying. Why does my ability to stab the Lich depend on a Requiem anyway? To defeat them, yes, but to hit them with the Parazon in the first place? I don't know about that. As others suggested, please just let us stab them either way and they just come back to life stronger afterwards if we didn't bring the right combination. And so their finisher animations don't go to waste, make them alternate melee grab moves. Or make it so if we die near a Lich, we enter a special bleedout state instead (even when running solo). The Lich then approaches us and performs a finisher. 

Yeah. I think that's about it for this topic. I feel like there was something else, but I forgot

Can I go ahead and forget both until they don't suck?

Imma do that.

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