Cephalon Cy commentary in the Railjack is utterly pointless

[Xarteros]

Now we'll see who actually reads the thread and not just the title. I am not saying that having audible alerts is a bad thing at all. There's a lot to keep track of, and having little popup alerts for incoming Ramsleds and whatnot is extremely helpful.

The issue is that HOW Cy does it makes it utterly pointless. His dialogue is too stretched out for clear, concise notifications, and what we get is an endless loop of dialogue that all ends up being too late. For instance, when you get hit by a ramsled and Cy tells you there is a boarding party, we don't need to hear "aim for the head, and let the saints look away". That extra line is 6 seconds of dialogue (edit: monologue?) in its own right, which means whatever happens during that alert is then delayed 6 seconds, which pushes back the next alert and so on and so on. Edit to outline further pointlessness of his current dialogue: Some of his current dialogue lines are misleading. For instance, he describes hull ruptures as if they might 'degrade' into catastrophic breaches if left untended, which is not how they work in any sense. Another example would be one of the alerts for fires, where he describes them as 'threatening hull integrity', which is misleading because it implies a weakening effect rather than just damage.

Fixes/suggestions:

• Firstly, is there a way you could cancel 'queued' dialogue when it's no longer relevant? For example, when I get a boarding party spawn on top of me and they die within 3 seconds, 8 seconds later I get Cy warning me about that boarding party, despite them being dead already.
• Secondly, can we at least have an option for shorter, concise dialogue variants? Some people might like them as they are, so why not keep an asset that's already been made, and just make a chopped-down version for those of us who want minimal radio chatter.
• Thirdly, can we get an on-board menu somewhere on the railjack (like the orbiter radio) where we can interact and select what type of alerts we'd like to hear and what we'd like to ignore? This would allow the gunner to mute alerts like repairs or away-team objectives, but keep alerts like ramsleds, fighter/crewship spawns etc. An engineer might want to mute fighter/crewship spawns and away mission goals, but keep damage and ramsled alerts etc. Better still if it's part of the tactical menu!
• Fourthly, tacked on to the third note, perhaps make an option to not 'tune in' to the grineer pilot chatter? I get the appeal of having audible confirmation of enemy presence/damage/kills, but I personally don't want to hear it.

Edited December 25, 2019 by Xarteros

[Baruuk]

The issues you highlighted are valid and point to a bigger issue with voice lines prevalent in the rest of the game's dialogue. I, too, would like to hear useful and concise lines like "Enemy fighters incoming portside". A ship's AI should be useful like that, not something that talks like a chatbot from the mid-2000s. In general, there are a lot of inconsistencies in the lines that vital characters like Cy and even the Lotus use. It goes from little things like mixed use of contractions and non-contractions, such as: i.e. "We've contracted you with a mark. You are here to find your mark and eliminate the assigned target." -The Lotus, on an assassination mission...

... to completely useless lines that don't aid anyone other than new players, like warning us of [Enemy Faction] on a very clearly [Enemy Faction] tileset. "Multiple bio-signatures ahead. It's the Grineer." -The Lotus, on an obviously Grineer-controlled node and planet.

Then there are lines (bugs?) like "Okay, you're looking for the mainframe. It's critical that you deliver the payload to that location." -The Lotus, on a Corpus sabotage mission with no payload, unless she means destroying the objective with small arms fire as "the payload". And someone thought it was a good idea to add dialogue embellishments like "Okay" or "Alright" in dialogue lines for the Lotus, who has nothing in her other lines that sound like that. More relevant to the thread, Cy says things that seem completely out-of-character for a Cephalon (Ordis is an exception). I can't find the specific line, but there's one where he alerts the player mid-mission with a line with "crap" in it. It sounded ridiculous. To quote the younger generation, it was cringey.

Side note, but still somewhat relevant to a need for "shorter" lines: Little Duck speaks obnoxiously slow, from Disruption missions to anything Orb Vallis-related. I can handle the wonky accent (Cockney or Broad Aussie, it's not the actor's native accent or voice), but the speed of those lines are awful.

Sadly, I think DE (and probably most of the playerbase) is happy with LD, but there's still a chance to fix/add/replace lines for Cephalon Cy and The Lotus, two characters who we listen to more often than anyone else in the game. As for me, I'm going back to muting transmission in the audio settings. I think I've heard all that I needed from Cy already.

EDIT: I've done a lot of Disruption missions since I posted this and I have to retract what I said about the pacing of LD's voice lines. Only her intro line to Disruption and some of the Fortuna backroom dialogue is slow, which is negligible in the grand scheme of Warframe voice lines. However, they are relatively more noticeable due to the frequency of these lines (every Disruption mission; every time you speak to them in Fortuna). The usefulness of these lines is still relevant to this thread, because they have a lot of flavour text but are not very useful outside of becoming increasingly redundant the more missions you attempt. LD could say some short lines about the key carrier's enemy type is (i.e. "Moa Demo Unit incoming"; "Parasitic Eximus Demo Unit on its way"), much like how Cy could provide useful, quick warnings to the player regarding when and where points of interest occur during Railjack missions.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Baruuk

[Klaleara]

Disagreed, I want something beyond "Enemy detected" "Enemy removed", etcetc.

I want some personality to it, and I'm A-OK with what is currently in the game.  If anything, I want more.

[Xarteros]

8 hours ago, Klaleara said:

Disagreed, I want something beyond "Enemy detected" "Enemy removed", etcetc.

I want some personality to it, and I'm A-OK with what is currently in the game.  If anything, I want more.

And that is exactly why I'm advocating for a toggle option! There are always going to be people who like the extra fluff rather than the tactical feedback, so why not keep all the existing content and add a toggle for snipped versions, and filtered lines? Hell, if I didn't have to worry about warnings that didn't affect me, I'd be more likely to keep Cy on his full-length dialogue option

[Maka.Bones]

I disagree, I actually find his voiced feedback to be valuable. It lets me know when someone leaves, or when someone is ready in the slingshot, or tells me what's happening outside or on the ship whenever I can't see it. 

 

The only issue I would have, is that it sometimes doesn't reply fast enough. Sometimes too many things are happening fast at the same time, and it can't keep up on a timely manner with what's currently happening (or what i need to know more promptly). 

[Xarteros]

10 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

I disagree, I actually find his voiced feedback to be valuable. It lets me know when someone leaves, or when someone is ready in the slingshot, or tells me what's happening outside or on the ship whenever I can't see it. 

 

The only issue I would have, is that it sometimes doesn't reply fast enough. Sometimes too many things are happening fast at the same time, and it can't keep up on a timely manner with what's currently happening (or what i need to know more promptly). 

So i'm guessing you replied to the title and not to the post 😛

I'm not disputing the value of having alerts (both the visual window for people who can't rely on the audio, and the audio itself), the problem is that the actual content of Cy's alerts is so drawn out that it delays all the other alerts. The number of times I get notified about an incoming ramsled AFTER i've killed the boarding party of said ramsled is just painful. It's evident enough that DE actually modified it in the last hotfix, but I'm advocating for a better system to filter unwanted dialogue topics out. A pilot who trusts his engineer, for instance, might not want to hear about fires and hull breaches, but wants to focus on crewship alerts, mission objectives and ramsled launches etc.

If someone wants to listen to constant irrelevant chatter, they can keep it toggled as normal. If someone wants to hear everything, but more concise, they can just toggle the concise dialogue lines. If someone wants to further filter what they want to hear about, they can just toggle what topics to ignore, or even have a frequency/urgency slider or something.

Hell, I think it's something people would like to have with Ordis and other chatterers too.

[Harutomata]

On 2019-12-17 at 7:30 AM, Xarteros said:

 

• Fourthly, tacked on to the third note, perhaps make an option to not 'tune in' to the grineer pilot chatter? I get the appeal of having audible confirmation of enemy presence/damage/kills, but I personally don't want to hear it.

 

Glad I'm not the only one finding those annoying. I hate the grineer. If it's meant to make us get more bloodthirsty at them, it's working as intended though.

Speaking of the ramsleds though, if Cy's message was queued before they spawn or get too close to the ship, it'd be completely fine or even more helpful.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Harutomata

[Yxivi]

I support the idea to have dialogue OPTIONS. Those who only want brief info that's relevant to what they're doing can get the shorter dialogues, while those who love the longer, almost roleplay-ish dialogues will still get theirs. Win-win for everyone.

I also like the 3rd suggestion to have toggle on which alerts we'd like to follow. A coordinated team that uses voice chat don't really need to hear everything that's happening in the ship from Cy, we all know that the fires have been extinguished by our teammate 5 seconds ago, now if only Cy will start talking about something that's relevant on my position.

An option to mute Cy would be nice too. I don't want to mute all transmission coz sometimes they have helpful queues but I just can't stand Cy's voice lines. And as one member stated, it's CRINGEY when he gets out-of-character. Anyway, this isn't needed if the option for concise dialogues is made possible.

[Maka.Bones]

On 2019-12-17 at 10:21 PM, Xarteros said:

So i'm guessing you replied to the title and not to the post 😛

I'm not disputing the value of having alerts (both the visual window for people who can't rely on the audio, and the audio itself), the problem is that the actual content of Cy's alerts is so drawn out that it delays all the other alerts. The number of times I get notified about an incoming ramsled AFTER i've killed the boarding party of said ramsled is just painful. It's evident enough that DE actually modified it in the last hotfix, but I'm advocating for a better system to filter unwanted dialogue topics out. A pilot who trusts his engineer, for instance, might not want to hear about fires and hull breaches, but wants to focus on crewship alerts, mission objectives and ramsled launches etc.

If someone wants to listen to constant irrelevant chatter, they can keep it toggled as normal. If someone wants to hear everything, but more concise, they can just toggle the concise dialogue lines. If someone wants to further filter what they want to hear about, they can just toggle what topics to ignore, or even have a frequency/urgency slider or something.

Hell, I think it's something people would like to have with Ordis and other chatterers too.

I mean... the title literally is calling  cephalon cy "pointless" instead of saying "he could be improved" so yes I disagree with that. 

But making them a bit faster, or a bit shorter could help... Having an option for brief & fast combat notes, would be great. Opting them out would help until they aren't, because your engineer is outside, or you go solo and you forget to turn them back on. (which happens if you're runnig solo/public

 

I think what might help the most, is if they set a "priority" system for the messages.... He can announce things based on a priority tier list, and then resume the older messages later. (Like if a ramsled is heading your way, that should take highest priority, then hull breach, then crewship)

"boagies inbound" doesn't always seem useful to me, since it's guaranteed more enemies will show up lol (unless they add a mission mechanic where we might get surprise reinforcements, outside of the normal quota)

Edited December 19, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Xarteros]

12 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

I mean... the title literally is calling  cephalon cy "pointless" instead of saying "he could be improved" so yes I disagree with that. 

-snip-

Well, I prefaced the nature of the post in literally my first sentence. I mostly find it funny that you went on to make the exact points I did, about the usefulness of alerts but that the current iteration doesn't keep up. Anyway I continue to hold my position:

Any 'preventative warning' alert that arrives after the event occurs is a solid match to the title of 'pointless'.

Sure, I could say that Cy's dialogue could be improved, but it would be improved by no longer being pointless. If anything, I ought to say 'largely pointless', because if you're at the edge of combat and/or have archwing players distracting the enemies, the message timing isn't quite as bad (typically). Only a Sith deals in absolutes, I guess, but I digress.

A solution to having the dialogue options becoming an issue should a player dynamically change roles would be to move the options to the tactical screen. I don't mind the idea of a priority system, depending on how smoothly it could be added on top of the category & dialogue length options. If we were to have priority dialogue, I feel like we'd need a static-interrupt sound for whatever dialogue is ongoing to literally cut the priority message in over the top. The issue then becomes whether or not it's feasible or relevant to then resume/restart those alert notifications once the priority message ends. For certain alerts, like Ramsleds, it wouldn't be relevant enough to delay, but stuff like crew ships or critical failure would still remain useful (assuming they aren't delayed by a consecutive chain of other priority alerts)

As to the inevitable drama of changing from solo/public, you could make it reset each time you leave squad or something. Make it keep your settings as long as you're staying in a continuing instance (i.e, between missions and drydock) and reset when you return to orbiter.

Edited December 20, 2019 by Xarteros

[Skaleek]

I actually find Cy's voice queues helpful. Especially the ramsled/boarder/repair order ones.

[Xarteros]

2 hours ago, Skaleek said:

I actually find Cy's voice queues helpful. Especially the ramsled/boarder/repair order ones.

When they work, sure. When they're so badly delayed that you've already killed the boarding party and hear about the incoming ramsled 5 seconds later, all it really does is create confusion

More options = better for everyone

[VisionAndVoice]

Agree with the points in the post's body, with how Cy's lines queue up all at once makes many of his line irrelevant by the time he gets to them.

Doesn't make your title any less unnecessarily clickbaity.

[Xarteros]

7 hours ago, VisionAndVoice said:

Agree with the points in the post's body, with how Cy's lines queue up all at once makes many of his line irrelevant by the time he gets to them.

Doesn't make your title any less unnecessarily clickbaity.

Again, if you agree that the alert dialogue queuing up and arriving late constantly is an issue, then the title is still accurate.

It's pointless to have a preventative alert arrive after the event has already happened, especially so when you've already finished dealing with the event in question.

I can't think of a better word than pointless.

[TastyTaro]

В 17.12.2019 в 09:30, Xarteros сказал:

That extra line is 6 seconds of dialogue (edit: monologue?)

but you have your map. whatever happens with the RJ you have your visual confirmation of it. It really doesn't matter what Cy is saying at the current period of time.

8 часов назад, Xarteros сказал:

I can't think of a better word than pointless.

true. still beats ordis.

Edited December 24, 2019 by Kel_Silonius

[Xarteros]

On 2019-12-24 at 2:50 PM, Kel_Silonius said:

but you have your map. whatever happens with the RJ you have your visual confirmation of it. It really doesn't matter what Cy is saying at the current period of time.

The map doesn't show you external alerts like ramsleds or objectives though. Beyond that, as far as I can tell (either bug or feature, who knows at this point) you can't see repair objectives on the map unless you have the omni equipped, and you can't see boarding parties on the minimap while in a pilot or gunner chair.

What we really need is a set of clear visual indicators for the HUD, and more indicators for the ship. We have a sort of siren/alarm that sounds when there's a catastrophic breach, so perhaps a different sort of siren to indicate boarding parties (since the initial impact sound can often get lost in the rest of combat). Stuff like being targeted by shipkillers/missiles could have a flashing warning, along with a warning for inbound ramsleds, with a simple graphic icon that is instantly recognisable. Then we just need objective markers to actually show at more than 2,000 meters away, and we'd be basically covered.

[Cuchullin]

I guess Cy's dialogue has gone a little way down the path of Ordis already. Occasionally more useful the Ordis but entertaining for the first few sessions and eventually starts to get annoying to some people.

[SnakeBadger]

ok my ideas for XY are that Cy gets to spread through the colony in space, missions, in relays and bounties, especialyl cetus, many new players wont like these high level updates and patches because they are geared towards straight and focused players who need a clan or have friends, so you should have some bounties and lines from cephalon, and other unlockables, items and rewards added to each area, where we could hear or have access to Cy's help, boosters, and weapons, especially true in the Plains of Edolon caverns have Pustrels and there are spiders and other robots guarding fortuna which can be scanned or made into shipguards, hacked  or upgraded into devices and weapons for the operators and mods for upgrading stances, one example of Cy talking about inaros or the warframe a team member is using,

another few extraction lines, and dojo options, overall i think Ordis needs more features than Cy, i just think CY could be in Cetus talking about stuff he likes and giving players tutorials if they are new with some small guidance lasers and railjack help to counter once a while a robot can come and help, players who like to solo can get some help from a optional team member, rental, in cetus there are not many uses of the ports and gates take way too long, so if you are going to add more reasonable uses for the cephalon i think  he can help with the eidolon also, but should come with new music, sandstorms, new weathers, and reward types which he can point out, maybe some items which can be fished up are of interest to cephalon CY's TEAM and crew mates, which would make all clans more popular if there was some dye commerce and fossils to excavate or keys and tools gathered from fighting, which are DECRYPTABLE and have long numbers and gates, have a minigame or form to unlock, m bit of excaators and locked areas which cy wans ts players to investigate CAN be OPTIONAL CONTENT in some forests, and openworld areas, but the players must look, may theres  one feature added to parazons which can be charged up using a special machjine, electric damaage, and other gadjets added, combat is / combatives whhich alot points to a CY, NPC for adornments, loot rellated to ops, tenno owarframes, and roboticas, so CY can focus or talk about robotics and machinery details on SCANS and give rewards for completing scans or TOURS on areas ao or notes which have an icon subtle, over a regular cephalon CY can give up some points of interest or ACTUAL POINTS earned, Destiny has somethign like this with a rewards book, stamps, and collectible sygils, tittles, are useful for people without clans, glyphs, and new glasses, horns, hair styles in some ways i think the syndicate can handle alot of new double missions involving CY, describing each area in the relay as the players go by each area, including cities and the notdes and planets which he can appoint special bonuses and rewards for replaying and infriltrating and collecting earning us new ways to get pustrells otehr than minning which is EXTRELY boring right now, its very liner to go mining , the zaws and fishing spears have to get tied together and gain combat bonuses, there are so many widgets and special types of sptools which have no special or passive features, or ways to upgrade them, players WILL buy the new stuff, and go on forgeting or trowing away the oldstuff, so AMPS and collectibles go ignored and are to be ignored for the time being, theres no actual way to benefit from using the forma in creative wayts, so we must wait till level 30, randomized bonuses, stats, expansions are too rigid and make DE no money, with CY added at least the modifications ancan be overlooked in the ship, but players who dont have a railjack wont benefit from CY, so this is why i wrote so much, that maybe CY can move on to the areas of the plains, and shops to give advise, add new goods, and talk about stuff during the pause and for going repeating boring missions, say that SPY MISSIONS became more interesting to high level players and HACKING was more rewarding, this would popularize PARAZON, and CY would get more lines, he doesnt have a combat superior as of yet or voice is based on distress, and has no interest in robotics obut he is a gerat NAVIGATOR in essense HE IS THE BEST, but i would love more features added to the rail jacks to have things for operators to do, and kitparts, speficial abilities and powers for both warframe and tenno to enjoy, theres no pvp or content updates and incentives, are only lense based focus points, and shippartrs, nothing we are getting for the orbiter as of yet, so the focus for cy should be relocated or at least be made more avaliable to new player areas and MSQ areas with some mystery or additions, husk, or not, followers or not, theres a place for CY outside the railjack experience, the only quick idea was to atleast have side-events and optional missions and bounties added per planet for players to drop directly from the orbiter and railjacks to skip regular nodes, and missions for extractors and components for both e of the ships, orbiter, operator loot, and blueprints, kitparts, ancient scrolls wmartial arts for the schools and augments to collect arcanes and special features per planet, there are no signature items in space or additionas made to regular tilesets after railjack has been launched, bounties are practically the same, so its good to see new enemies in POE and fortuna areas can get new NPC scientists, researchers, and pvp enthusiast or send help, itsts a good time to popularize team CY.

new shops, npc per relay, city ops, merch per comp (minning update) fishing spear and gun upgrades to loot, and fighting, lines, fighting game type of guy, cy is a fighting game enthusiast of weathers and eidolons, the fighting above the planet should surge problems in the nodes bellow, influencing teh rewards and types of enemies and items discovered in those missions for the low end player, they dont know what a pustrel is used for and there are no exchange laws or uses so lets think about what a noob player can use all this stuff for, they just wanna shoot stuff and fight, cy is cool, lets think games and rewards, comment!

[SnakeBadger]

21 hours ago, Xarteros said:

The map doesn't show you external alerts like ramsleds or objectives though. Beyond that, as far as I can tell (either bug or feature, who knows at this point) you can't see repair objectives on the map unless you have the omni equipped, and you can't see boarding parties on the minimap while in a pilot or gunner chair.

What we really need is a set of clear visual indicators for the HUD, and more indicators for the ship. We have a sort of siren/alarm that sounds when there's a catastrophic breach, so perhaps a different sort of siren to indicate boarding parties (since the initial impact sound can often get lost in the rest of combat). Stuff like being targeted by shipkillers/missiles could have a flashing warning, along with a warning for inbound ramsleds, with a simple graphic icon that is instantly recognisable. Then we just need objective markers to actually show at more than 2,000 meters away, and we'd be basically covered.

once u outside ur ship or doing solo missions and stuff blows up because u arent aware of ship discrepancies, the rewards for playing and responding to cy are bad or lack uniqueness, mods, with cy's stamps or signature augments, are missing from this part of the game, operators get nothing cool, and still require lenses, ships should have one large focus lense which rotates all polarities and other guest benefits, and bonuses for warframes and operators who fight outside loot is just ship stuff, until new blueprints and updates add content which uses those items, i'd be cool to once a while get a haloween item or seasonal event loot and monsters to make things interesting in some tilesets,   and inside, bellow or above, machinery and entertainment.

[SnakeBadger]

non-combat feature and uogrades, mods, a quick way to trasferance and rewards, i think a minigame will help, but the docks and orbiter lack features and say munus, hold insert battery stuff, quick travel only works with omni at a high level. and  kuva is not involve ro added to space misssions wwww

[(XBOX)A Wasted Muffin]

Can I shut Cephalon CY up. He reports things to late to matter. Just adds extra noise to a chaotic ship battle.

[SnakeBadger]

once aquiringthe rail jack CY should also give advice in the orbiter and also crew repairs and monitoring over the radio could be heard, that syndicates join in and have their say, then cetus has more variety of missions and market wares, because the relays have more to do, this would be a great start for advanced operators to get more weapons and gear for their tenno, some free and some by trading coppernicks, and excess space junk with darvo, and the crew who can offer sigils and other ship parts, cosmetics, and orbiter attirements.

[NoSpax]

Am 18.12.2019 um 06:57 schrieb Maka.Bones:

I disagree, I actually find his voiced feedback to be valuable. It lets me know when someone leaves, or when someone is ready in the slingshot, or tells me what's happening outside or on the ship whenever I can't see it. 

The problem is, we have getting random Lotus infos for years and are more likely to overhear/ignore them. Like "It's the grineer" during a Grineer mission, well duh, lady.

Cy's Dialogue is the only way to have ALL crew members know whats going on inside and outside and this should be improved to perfection.

Actually, his dialogue seem to differ from FIRE to FIRES, if there is multiple, and Fire in general (I guess more then 3), so it's a plus already.

[Xarteros]

On 2020-01-17 at 10:05 PM, NoSpax said:

The problem is, we have getting random Lotus infos for years and are more likely to overhear/ignore them. Like "It's the grineer" during a Grineer mission, well duh, lady.

Cy's Dialogue is the only way to have ALL crew members know whats going on inside and outside and this should be improved to perfection.

Actually, his dialogue seem to differ from FIRE to FIRES, if there is multiple, and Fire in general (I guess more then 3), so it's a plus already.

That's why I think there needs to be more notifications added to the HUD for pilots and gunners (incoming ramsled alerts, interior lighting changes for major breaches or boarding parties etc), as well as priority-list dialogue that cuts longer messages into concise messages when there are queued notifications, and delays certain notifications into a later order to bring critical alerts to the surface.

It CAN be a handy tool, if they fix it, especially if we start seeing more challenging missions that require more cohesive team play.

Being able to set preferences via the tactical menu would also be a fantastic solution, since players could adjust it on-the-fly and just skip messages that don't apply to them.

Thankfully, I've gotten to the point where I can just solo the content reliably, so I maintain a much higher awareness of objectives despite Cy's late notifications. But, on principle, I think the fixes should be made for everyone, so those who aren't going to play or enjoy the content solo can get a more solid tool for team-play.

[(PSN)TrueDeMoN100]

So after reading this I have to say I partially agree. I have noticed the delay in alerts when you get hit by 3 ramsleds, shields blow out, hulls breached, & etc. 

On 2019-12-17 at 1:30 AM, Xarteros said:

we don't need to hear "aim for the head, and let the saints look away".

I understand for the situation at hand you may not want to hear this but I don't mind these commentaries and like that Cy has a personality. Maybe a toggle switch for these few messages could be added if it really is a stretching issue.

On 2019-12-17 at 1:30 AM, Xarteros said:

Some of his current dialogue lines are misleading. For instance, he describes hull ruptures as if they might 'degrade' into catastrophic breaches if left untended, which is not how they work in any sense.

You're wrong that's exactly how it works if you do leaves hull unattended you gradually lose hp over time and it will become catastrophic failure imminent. That's not misleading that's a fact.