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DE: It is time to stop. RNG does not fly.


AmaruKaze
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vor 3 Stunden schrieb Hypernaut1:

Rivens have proven that RNG is a hit and keeps vets coming back. To this day they can still give a riven as a gift of the lotus and it's still desired by many players. Sorties w were saved single handedly by Rivens. Games like this thrive on RNG. 

Yes but this comparison is just plain wrong.

Rivens can be sold, Rivens can be re-rolled, Rivens can be easily obtained. Let's do the same system for reactors on rivens. You have a riven, it is what it is. No rerolling, nothing. It of course lacks the fact that it has a higher chance to even drop plus the effort necessary for it is also lower. Let's just assume you get one riven roll and what you unveil is what it is, forever, none-tradeable. That system would have died so hard in the infancy.

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IF there was no RNG

Prices for items would be insanely low- less plat flowing around and less plat being bought, which in theory is less money to DE for them to provide us for more content

Earning plat would be harder because everyone would already have things easier without RNG, and prices would be so low and there would be so much competition to trade against

You would get less plat from the trades that you were able to make to keep for yourself to potentially trade for other items and or items on the store (which would equally seem more expensive because you dont get as much plat as before)

The game would get boring quick without RNG and we would more than likely feel far less rewarded for our efforts

The game may potentially turn into a pay to play if DE started losing money from turning away from RNG based rewards

 

Outside of things that we can buy/, RNG, is the invisible unknown time barrier even when we have the drop %. Some can be really lucky and some can feel like they are cursed by the RNG gods. It is an artificial way to keep people playing and has been around for years. Good thing is we have the choice on what we want to play, in all aspects. 

Edited by (XB1)AMONGTHEWEAK
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vor 6 Minuten schrieb (XB1)AMONGTHEWEAK:

IF there was no RNG

Prices for items would be insanely low- less plat flowing around and less plat being bought, which in theory is less money to DE for them to provide us for more content

Earning plat would be harder because everyone would already have things easier without RNG, and prices would be so low and there would be so much competition to trade against

You would get less plat from the trades that you were able to make to keep for yourself to potentially trade for other items and or items on the store (which would equally seem more expensive because you dont get as much plat as before)

The game would get boring quick without RNG and we would more than likely feel far less rewarded for our efforts

The game may potentially turn into a pay to play if DE started losing money from turning away from RNG based rewards

 

Outside of things that we can buy/, RNG, is the invisible unknown time barrier even when we have the drop %. Some can be really lucky and some can feel like they are cursed by the RNG gods. It is an artificial way to keep people playing and has been around for years. Good thing is we have the choice on what we want to play, in all aspects. 

The thing is not that RNG itself is the issue. Ir is RNG² where things get #*!%ed up.

Yes so finally you hit that % Dropchance for Gauss. Oh, he has the poorest stats after building. Better farm him again then.

No one here says gimme instantly, I want when i get it, to have something that is useful. Imagine Prime Frame rolling after crafting and the stats would worse than the regular farmable one. That is the issue. RNG to OBTAIN: Yes. RNG on RNG. Hell NO

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It's almost like this is a looter shooter game and you aren't supposed to have every single thing at max rank and have the best of the best not even a week after the content was released. This is one of the dumbest posts I've seen on these forums, and that's saying a lot. Don't like it? Please leave, because it's people like you that are ruining the looter genre by complaining until the game has absolutely no replayability and therefore no reason to play the game anymore outside of a day when something new comes out.

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vor 1 Minute schrieb Cephalon_Carstairs:

It's almost like this is a looter shooter game and you aren't supposed to have every single thing at max rank and have the best of the best not even a week after the content was released. This is one of the dumbest posts I've seen on these forums, and that's saying a lot. Don't like it? Please leave, because it's people like you that are ruining the looter genre by complaining until the game has absolutely no replayability and therefore no reason to play the game anymore outside of a day when something new comes out.

I am no expert, but maybe replayability would be given if e.g. RJ was not the same mission copy-pasted onto different skyboxes? *shrugs*

Just an idea.

Edited by AmaruKaze
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3 hours ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Also, in PoE if you get a good roll, but then get a better one, you can sell the good roll to someone else in the game to recoup some (or all) of your investment in that item. In Railjack, you cannot recoup any of your investment if you get a better roll.

That's why PoE/Diablo feel rewarding when you get a better drop than what you currently have, while getting a better item in Railjack just feels like a boot to the head.

Up to this point everything else in this thread has IMO been rather weak in terms of criticism, but this is a very good point, and frankly constructive to boot.

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2 minutes ago, Megalomaniakaal said:

Up to this point everything else in this thread has IMO been rather weak in terms of criticism, but this is a very good point, and frankly constructive to boot.

Well maybe because its wrong:

- scraping parts as far as i know gives 50% of resources back. There might be trade for bps/parts added later. Not crafted ones are your primary source of dirac aka space endo. 

- you recuperate almost nothing in diablo 3. Normal legend gives on scraping 1 material, 15 is for primal, if you play even a bit you will swim in those and they basically are used in mostly rerolling. Trading is not existant as items are bound if not found together in a party. 

- in Poe it works to an extent, most of the shyt you will use wont be sellable and there is a catch. In Poe you buy items, you rarely drop them. To put it into perspective, you would have to buy each and every component for rj except probably for one that dropped for you. You would only farm plat and would not even look at 99,99% of drops. Ah and fetch would have to be gone. Without fetch economy there lasts a week.. 

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 I feel your frustration too OP. That said, I think we're both savvy to the fact that RNG is one of the only really effective ways DE has to roadblock us that wont end is a catastrophe.

 Imagine if instead of RNG dictating if you are 'lucky enough' you were instead looking at some tedious list of menial tasks like 'Fetch X', 'Complete Y solo at level 30 without killing.' because that is an alternative, everything is just as monotonous as the space relay challenges can be but with more numerous and more difficult components. Or imagine DE just inflated crafting costs at a faster pace. Nothing says "I'm having fun" quite like the ugly thought like "Gear/Content updates with five to six digit material requirements that isn't a clan effort."

 RNG doesn't always feel fun but its certainly fun more frequently than literal endless grind. This game has mountains and mountains of grind if you've got a kink for that regardless. I consider it a necessary evil.

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49 minutes ago, Anduvriel said:

There might be trade for bps/parts added later.

Maybe. Later. I do hope so.

 

49 minutes ago, Anduvriel said:

Not crafted ones are your primary source of dirac aka space endo. 

Yes, but I expect we'll get enough from the very low end of rolls we never use.

 

51 minutes ago, Anduvriel said:

in Poe it works to an extent, most of the shyt you will use wont be sellable and there is a catch. In Poe you buy items, you rarely drop them. To put it into perspective, you would have to buy each and every component for rj except probably for one that dropped for you. You would only farm plat and would not even look at 99,99% of drops. Ah and fetch would have to be gone

Well, the point was more that the parts should be tradeable, not so much that the trading economics of the other games should be imitated.

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One of those games people keep bringing up had a massive failure of a launch and was only redeemed when they rejigged the whole economy by:

  1. Nerfing the rng.
  2. Removing the auction house.

Trading is not so much a solution to heavy rng as a partner in crime.

Edited by schilds
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4 minutes ago, schilds said:

One of those games people keep bringing up had a massive failure of a launch and was only redeemed when they rejigged the whole economy by:

  1. Nerfing the rng.
  2. Removing the auction house.

I am going offtopic here, but the reason diablo 3 was so hated on launch was not even because of terrible rng drops and auction house (those were the sh%t icings on that sh%t cake of a game), it was mainly because diablo 3 was objectively worse than diablo 2 (the game that was made 12 years before that) in everything except graphics - less characters, inferior build variety and weaker RPG systems, no PvP, smaller parties and always online requirement. And I am not even going into more subjective matters, like the terrible story and weaker art style direction.

In fact, the unbelievable crappiness of D3 was so vast to me, that I have been boycotting Blizzard ever since, and did not buy anything from them out of principle.

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11 minutes ago, schilds said:

One of those games people keep bringing up had a massive failure of a launch and was only redeemed when they rejigged the whole economy by:

  1. Nerfing the rng.
  2. Removing the auction house.

Trading is not so much a solution to heavy rng as a partner in crime.

 This is so true. If players were actually realistically able to obtain everything they wanted within the constraints of their available game time there would be 0 purpose to the auction house because you'd just go get yourself the thing.

 Trading and Auction houses are things that relish RNG. The more scarce a type of item the game can cook up the better. In Warframe's case I'd say the ultimate example is God roll rivens selling for thousands of plat. Yeah love it or hate it the reality here is that its that type of awful only some quality TradingxRNG fanfiction can work in.

 There is a lot of truth to this point.

6 minutes ago, Mr.Fluffins said:

I am going offtopic here, but the reason diablo 3 was so hated on launch was not even because of terrible rng drops and auction house (those were the sh%t icings on that sh%t cake of a game), it was mainly because diablo 3 was objectively worse than diablo 2 (the game that was made 12 years before that) in everything except graphics - less characters, inferior build variety and weaker RPG systems, no PvP, smaller parties and always online requirement. And I am not even going into more subjective matters, like the terrible story and weaker art style direction.

In fact, the unbelievable crappiness of D3 was so vast to me, that I have been boycotting Blizzard ever since, and did not buy anything from them out of principle.

 I think you are both correct because neither of you have said anything I view as inaccurate or mutually exclusive. It's important to realize that Diablo 3 was a full-package type screw up due to Blizzard execs not remembering the days they were mere mortals and had to have fun the normal way instead of just making your fun by squeezing money from people who are supposed to look up to you.

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RNG is fine, the problem comes when there is tons and tons of grind just because DE doesnt want you to devour the content in a day resulting in things like the saturn 6 mask or the recent implemented Shedu walls of RNG with chances so absurd that you might prefer buy it instead but guess what? you cant. Games now ''reward'' those who are lucky enough to get a 1% drop chance item on their first try instead of those who lost their time in discovering every secret and trick of the game, well we need RNG ,as someone says, the economy of the game depends on it but we do not need it on things that affect the story or are personal goals like the saturn 6 mask or the ephemeras like they said it would be a reward for skill instead of another RNG dependant bs.

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