Jump to content
Jade Shadows: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

Making Warframe Easier For First Time Players


BlindeyeInsight
 Share

Recommended Posts

I saw on the community hot topics the concern that the game's difficulty would turn off new players. I agree that this is an important issue and had some thoughts on it.

Specifically, I think my experiences clearing Mercury for the first time with my wife is a good indication that the early game of Warframe could be easier. Some things I noticed:

- The average level 1 Grineer Lancer took too many shots to take down.
- Enemy reinforcements can quickly get out of hand.
- Levels feel endless as you search for the objectives and extraction points.

Now remember, I'm thinking of this as a new player as well as an experienced gamer. I'm not new to this kind of game. My wife is, and seeing her have to quickly ramp up her game and how easily things got frustrating was very enlightening. So here are some attributes a new player may have that could be overlooked by developers:

- New players are not good at head shots, or timing their charged melee. They may not even pay attention to the damage numbers.
- Can easily get lost as the waypoints jump around on the minimap that can look like a glob of nothing.
- Do not think to sprint at all, or do any sliding, long jumps or any other way to speed up their movement.
- Don't know their way around mods, or builds. Likely a new player won't even install a mod unless told by another player, or until they start getting curious what these cards they're picking up are.
- The Lotus is easily ignored in a tl;dr kind of way. This goes for tutorial text too. (note on this point: There are ways to teach a player a game without lecturing them. A revision to the tutorial could help. See early video games w/o tutorials to see what I mean, and see how some are easier to learn than others)

All these attributes will fall away as the player becomes more experienced, but Mercury will feel way harder then intended at first as they get acclimated to the game. Here are my ideas at how to reduce the game's difficulty at first. Some players may scoff at this, but it's really important when a new player picks up the game to feel like they're badass right away. Easy does equal fun at first, so you can consider this stuff a Mercury-only idea:

- Grineer need less armor. Maybe even reducing base armor to 100. Perhaps this means that new variants of the Lancer and Trooper are needed. Like 'Rookie Lancer/Trooper'. They'd die in half the time (1 second of direct fire instead of two with the MK1-Braton, five slashes with the Skana). Sawmen also should have less shields, and do less damage as seeing one of these guys running at you as a new player can be a death sentance when you're not so good with the Skana.
- Early Corpus should also have less shields, for that matter. 'Newbie Crewman' / 'Junky MOA' varients.
- Lower difficulty levels should spawn less rooms.
- Shooting a reactor should deal damage to it, rather than needing to destroy the glowing rods (though I admit that is fun to do).
- On that note, the first mission should be an Extermination mission, which is the easiest mission to accomplish since reinforcements aren't endless.
- Minimap could be clearer, with different shades of grey to show elevation for example.
- Some way to hack a mainframe to turn off the alarm and return enemies to an undetected state.
- Morale effecting enemies so they run, take cover more often or just panic in general.

I should mention that early game Infested seem perfect. We only see Chargers and Runners and it's really fun just hacking and slashing through them with little threat. Only seeing Ancients mid-Venus felt like a great ease in to what ends up making Infested just as difficult as the other Factions.

One last thing I want to mention is the paralysing doubt that having to choose your starting Warframe can create. A new player doesn't really realise that the other early Frames (except Mag) are just a measely $5 and can feel any choice they make is the wrong one. Some way to test out Loki and Mag during the tutorial or have their own tutorial varients would reduce this fear and the new player would be more confident with their starting Frame.

If you read this far, I hope you find this an interesting perspective. I'd like to hear other player's ideas for reducing the difficulty for early game. I'm also curious if some players feel the middle to endgame also needs some difficulty reduction as well.

Edited by BlindeyeInsight
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The topic name is a bit misleading, but i like the idea very much.

 

Especially for a F2P, it's important to quickly capture the player, otherwise, if he's frustraed, he'll just quit and unistall.

 

But, on the other hand, some hardcore players do prefer an harder game (*cough*Dark Souls*cough*), if the game starts too easy, they might get bored and quit.

 

Maybe a difficulty selection for Mercury would be a good idea. Let's say, easy, with softer enemies and hard, with tradicional (or even buff up) grinnier, and extra rewards (just to get the newbs going :D). Not sure if this is feasible in the game though, programming-wise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could not agree more I am new to the game and new to PC games. 

Now maybe I'm just more used to the PS3 controller,

But I can't get to far in the game without it getting somewhat frustrating.

I for one don't know if the enemies should be easier or a little less of them.

but yesterday I had over 40 of those little wannabe AT-ST turret guys on mercury all bum rushing me at once.

needless to say I had no chance.

I like this game a lot And could see myself wasting a lot of time on it, But as of now I am getting wasted.

and it kind of sucks.

I do hope it gets easier as I go and level up but right now I have been redoing the same few quests to try and get more gear and abilities. 

Edited by AmazingJayman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like these suggestions they're both inventive and would make it less frustrating to go through Mercury.

 

For choosing your warframe in the beginning, I didn't know what the powers did(Visually and Damage) and how they matched up against other frames abilities. I think I nice fix would be to have new players be able to test out the three starter frames on a expanded tutorial. All their powers would be unlocked and energy refills would let you freely get the feel of their powers. 

 

 

The morale idea sounds like it would be neat and would be cool for the newbie Grineer and scaredy cat Corprus. 

 

For mods i'm not certain how you would go about explaining what you use them for, I don't really know of any precedent tutorials with similar setups to the mod system = 3.

 

 

Hopefully the update for Armor will help in general for the beginning players and the players for endgame missions

 

 

Also I agree that new players should be made to feel as badass as possible, most people I know get into this game for the premise. Your a space ninja! A more epic tutorial incorporating more of Warframe's concepts(Like the combo system and wallrunning) would do wonders for making you feel badass until Vor shuts you down. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Firstly, we need tutorial. Not a mission, when you learn how to shoot, how to collect pickups and how to meele. Personally, I never saw anyone, that didn't knew how to shoot, sprint or walk. Those are pretty intuitive.

 

Or mutiple tutorials - that would be cool.

 

I mean, this, basic one can stay, but there needs to bee Lotus head, or huge, blinking question mark on the top bar, that will activate a list of topics, like:

1: Basics (current tutorial)

2: Advanced Fighting (charge attacks, slide attacks, jump attacks, tips how to conserve ammo, etc.)

3: Advanced Movement (wallrunning, sliding, walljumping, slashsliding, et cetera)

4: Stealth (crouching, avoiding enemies, basics about when enemies will notice you, etc.)

5: Weapons (weapon types, damage types, differences between them, elementals and how do they affect certain enemies, etc.)

6: Mod Cards (how to mod weapons, how to supercharge them, what is Forma for, mod capacity, weapon ranks, etc.)

7: Advanced Gear (restores, fireworks (lol), ammo pickups types, orb types (as a new player you don't have an idea what are black/pink ones)

8: Advanced Tactics (enemy weaknesses, armor, shields, health, DOT damage, ragdoll...)

9: Advanced Everything (rest of the stuff, that were not covered in previous tutorials)

 

As for now, the only thing we can do is to help players by ourselves. I'm at Mercury, or Aphrodite (forgot the planet) pretty often, and I'm always trying to help.

I suggest creating something like... Mentor/Sensei Program, collecting people that are willing to help, assigning them to certain players, that need help... That thing worked pretty well in ePoland in eRepublik, so why not try this in here?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm going to have to agree that the MOA at first are just incredibly frightening. I'm very fortunate right now to have a 'No Return' + 'Heated Charge' mod on my Lato, which seems to tear everything to shreds as I'm trying to clear out Venus and start on Earth. I just picked up a 'Convulsion' Mod to add electricity damage to my pistol, and I'm finally crafting new gear, so I hope to see the MOA's fall much faster. (It helps that my wife plays a Volt. Dead MOAs everwhere)

Jayman gave me another idea: Weak points even through shields. MOAs may have tiny heads and that weak fannypack, but that's pointless when their shields prevent exploiting those. If we could get some bonus damage through the shields, that'd be amazing. Also, maybe Blade damage should ignore half the shield rating to make melee combat more viable at lower levels.

Noveron made me think of something else too. What if there were a bunch of tutorials, like a pre-Mercury optional set of missions. You can be a level 1 Excalibur/Loki/Mag, you HAVE to Solo, and you don't get to go to Mercury or play with anyone else until you choose your Frame. There could be obstacle courses, simple fights against enemies, and maybe even just a thrown in Mod tutorial in there. (Edit: Basically what Anguis said)

Or maybe everyone should just get Excalibur, and get ONE other (Loki, Mag or Volt) when completing Mercury for the first time. (Wishfull thinking here)

Edited by BlindeyeInsight
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Missleading thread title....

Maybe Mercure is for a Level 0 Warframe with Level 0 Weapons and no mods really complicated.

But than he shouldn't play Solo and hit the "online" button ;-) 

 

Otherwise they need also to make something more difficult for all the Mastery 12 players who feel borred. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

a game should be easy to learn, hard to master,

 

the prob about warframe is, it's anything but easy to learn since it's super confusing, yet on high lvls it's pretty easy, too easy because there's no challenge.

 

I joined a random mission (blind click because I was bored hooray), I got in a group with 3x rank 1 players without colours so I assumed they were newbies, they didn't even know how to chat etc and they were pretty confused in the path finding.

here 2 examples why it's too hard for newbies.

 

ojUOB67.jpg

 

they didn't know what they had to do, they've almost ragequitted if I wouldn't explain them what to do, showing how to wallrun by demonstration and explaining

 

same problem with the next picture:

fIqOyFb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Mercury needs to be an extended tutorial.  I didn't personally have any issues running through it, but there is much to the game I didn't know for a while, like how to control a wall run and wall run jump wall run.

The Lotus can have a much bigger part in the first few missions, they could highlight items on the mini-map and explain them better.

Highlight containers and lockers and explain when you pick something up for the first time a bit better, similar to the way the first time a mob drops oxygen in a survival.

 

They could also introduce us to all three factions and maybe highlight points to be shot similar to the way banshee's sonar does... like bullets do no damage to corpus crewmen's head.

 

Also highlight in the same way wall running paths on mercury.  Have mercury more of a training ground that way the movement and parkour can be a bigger part of the game at higher levels, rather than having ramps and paths to bypass the fun stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I saw on the community hot topics the concern that the game's difficulty would turn off new players. I agree that this is an important issue and had some thoughts on it.

It's not the slightest bit hard. It's just very grindy. Even though I'm a newbie I hardly ever die and when I do it's because I was feeling indestructible and did something stupid.

 

Edit: And I always felt like tutorials are a waste. Why spend all that money and time making a whole level when you could just post instructions on the website in minutes and for free? I learned to play by reading the wiki while I waited for the game to download. It was easy.

 

 

Also, Siera, are you saying the game is too dark, visually? You might be right.

 

Nah, he just needs to fix his brightness setting. His screenshots are way darker than the game is for me. His looks like watching the game through sunglasses. The colors look a bit oversaturated too.

Edited by Lachryphage
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never found Warframe's basic gameplay difficult, not even early on, and have trouble concieving how someone versed in shooters or similar action games could.

 

I suppose that if Warframe was an individual's introduction to action games, there could be more of a curve for the combat aspects.

 

A better tutorial, or even a good manual, would have been appreciated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tutorials are very important. If you're finding Warframe incredibly easy, then clearly you're an advanced player who doesn't need tutorials and need to take a step back. You need to pretend you've never played a shooter, or even a video game before. Maybe see if you can watch a less experienced player do the first level of the game. (Kind of a hard scenario to set up, but I digress

I'm in the position where I have action game experience, and am playing with my wife who only recently got into action games. The only mission she can solo is the Mercury Extermination level. Together, we can handle most levels (except for Defense and Survival) with some difficulty. I enjoy the challenge, but I can tell it's frustrating for her at times. On my own, I can handle most of the levels solo. The contrast is pretty clear here.

The mental notes I've been taking comparing my and my wife's experience is what led to this post. I've only mentioned the things that both of us find difficult, even if I have greater success at overcoming it.

A really good game can teach it's players how to be good at it through the gameplay, helped by a well-made tutorial. The game itself needs a difficulty curve that begins low, and slowly ramps up. Right now we have an exceedingly brief tutorial, and a difficulty curve that begins at a moderate difficulty and ramps up VERY fast by the end of Venus.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe see if you can watch a less experienced player do the first level of the game. (Kind of a hard scenario to set up, but I digress

 

I got my 60 year old mother to try a mission, she couldn't even figure out what was going on; it was like giving a generator service manual to a cave man who had no concept of writing or electricty. Pretty sure my dog would have done better.

 

The people around me have either all been playing video games for 20+ years (including my wife), or haven't given them a passing thought since the original Pong, so it's hard for me to find a good example.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tutorials are very important. If you're finding Warframe incredibly easy, then clearly you're an advanced player who doesn't need tutorials and need to take a step back. You need to pretend you've never played a shooter, or even a video game before. Maybe see if you can watch a less experienced player do the first level of the game. (Kind of a hard scenario to set up, but I digress

I'm in the position where I have action game experience, and am playing with my wife who only recently got into action games. The only mission she can solo is the Mercury Extermination level. Together, we can handle most levels (except for Defense and Survival) with some difficulty. I enjoy the challenge, but I can tell it's frustrating for her at times. On my own, I can handle most of the levels solo. The contrast is pretty clear here.

The mental notes I've been taking comparing my and my wife's experience is what led to this post. I've only mentioned the things that both of us find difficult, even if I have greater success at overcoming it.

A really good game can teach it's players how to be good at it through the gameplay, helped by a well-made tutorial. The game itself needs a difficulty curve that begins low, and slowly ramps up. Right now we have an exceedingly brief tutorial, and a difficulty curve that begins at a moderate difficulty and ramps up VERY fast by the end of Venus.

Sure of course if you've never played a video game before you're going to be terrible, but that's true for any hobby. I can (badly) play the bass for Smoke On The Water and that's the extent of my musical ability, but I'm not going to complain to Fender to make guitars easier. I don't see how the devs are supposed to prevent newbies from being bad. The controls barely take a paragraph to explain. It's not enough to justify a tutorial. Skill is a matter of practice and no tutorial is going to help with it.

Edited by Lachryphage
Link to comment
Share on other sites

- Grineer need less armor. Maybe even reducing base armor to 100. Perhaps this means that new variants of the Lancer and Trooper are needed. Like 'Rookie Lancer/Trooper'. They'd die in half the time (1 second of direct fire instead of two with the MK1-Braton, five slashes with the Skana). Sawmen also should have less shields, and do less damage as seeing one of these guys running at you as a new player can be a death sentance when you're not so good with the Skana.

 

Some time ago, a player could kill Sawmen with a jump attack, or a single well timed counterattack using a skana after they swung. 

 

This was easily doable with a Skana. Two skana hits for a Sawman kill if just swinging blindly, one skana hit if counterattacking their swing.

 

I think it should be restored to that level of difficulty.

Edited by Destro6677
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i just joined this game not too long ago.

 

what I feel is that there should be at least some tutorial about the acrobatics that one is able to perform ( wall run )

 

I had no idea how to reproduce it till I watched tutorials on youtube.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

- New players are not good at head shots, or timing their charged melee. They may not even pay attention to the damage numbers.

- Can easily get lost as the waypoints jump around on the minimap that can look like a glob of nothing.

- Do not think to sprint at all, or do any sliding, long jumps or any other way to speed up their movement.

- Don't know their way around mods, or builds. Likely a new player won't even install a mod unless told by another player, or until they start getting curious what these cards they're picking up are.

- The Lotus is easily ignored in a tl;dr kind of way. This goes for tutorial text too. (note on this point: There are ways to teach a player a game without lecturing them. A revision to the tutorial could help. See early video games w/o tutorials to see what I mean, and see how some are easier to learn than others)

- Grineer need less armor. Maybe even reducing base armor to 100. Perhaps this means that new variants of the Lancer and Trooper are needed. Like 'Rookie Lancer/Trooper'. They'd die in half the time (1 second of direct fire instead of two with the MK1-Braton, five slashes with the Skana). Sawmen also should have less shields, and do less damage as seeing one of these guys running at you as a new player can be a death sentance when you're not so good with the Skana.

- Early Corpus should also have less shields, for that matter. 'Newbie Crewman' / 'Junky MOA' varients.

- Lower difficulty levels should spawn less rooms.

- Shooting a reactor should deal damage to it, rather than needing to destroy the glowing rods (though I admit that is fun to do).

- On that note, the first mission should be an Extermination mission, which is the easiest mission to accomplish since reinforcements aren't endless.

- Minimap could be clearer, with different shades of grey to show elevation for example.

- Some way to hack a mainframe to turn off the alarm and return enemies to an undetected state.

- Morale effecting enemies so they run, take cover more often or just panic in general.

These are all things I've been hoping for honestly. Especially the nav markers being more clear. Fun fact of the day; they used to sit on the exit you were supposed to get to and remained fixed instead of jumping around in a confusing manner. Apparently having working nav markers was too much to handle and they changed them to be harder to follow.

The reactor core as well, why does it have to be so complicated? I mean, it's not that complicated, but it's infinitely more complicated than it should be.

Sawmen really, really don't need shields at all. This was another recent addition, one that could have been implemented as "elite sawmen" that appear later in the game, but sadly Mercury is now filled with axe wielding maniacs that take a mag worth of Lato shots to bring down.

 

I've also said this before, but I feel it's worth repeating. The starting weapons are awful and not fun to use at all, well, the Lato's ok. This is a player's first impression of the game and they are handed a slow-firing, low-damage pea shooter with no feeling of power. Add onto that the fact that Grineer are pretty tough and you are getting new players to hold their crosshairs over a target for extended bursts until you tickle them to death. In all honesty, I think the Braton should be the starting gun. It's much more fun to use and might actually be able to get newbies through Mercury without the torture of using the Mk-1 unmodded.

 

Finally, I really like the suggestion of adding a morale system of some sort. It feels really strange that enemies don't react to coming under fire and I think the game could be greatly improved by that.

Edited by TheHeraldXII
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, theHerald! Interesting to know that some of my feedback were actually in effect in previous versions of the game. The game changes pretty often, so maybe we'll see a return to that.

Also, I should try to simplify my comment about skill vs. difficulty. Yeah, I'm certainly not expecting a non-gamer to be good at this game. It was a poor example. So forget skill, I still think the early levels should be easier. I'm glad others think this way too.

I've heard a lot of people talking about Armor 2.0 and such but have had very little luck in finding an in-depth explenation to what it is. Can someone elaborate for me?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To the person saying it's easy, just grindy, you're wrong. I started a week before U9 and the difficulty ramped up ridiculously for new players when U9 hit. At U10 it ramped up even further with mods harder to find following Drops 2.0, especially rifle damage mods, and only dropping from certain enemies which you didn't get to until way after you needed the mods (lvl 20 enemies). Credits and exp also took a hit meaning it takes even longer for people to get anywhere.

 

We've friends started post U10 who had played a few days before we managed to get online with them. They had managed, together, to get through most of Mercury and had done a couple of Venus missions. Neither one of them (both gamers) had figured out the mods. They had wasted a fair bit of their starter plat on revives because they ran through them so fast trying to kill grineer with unmodded weapons.

 

A week on and they are much better, now they have learnt the necessary tricks of the trade, but that should've been the tutorials job, not ours! If they'd carried on for a couple more days without help they would've quit, and that is happening to a lot of newbies. New players are the lifes blood of the game and this game is haemorrhaging.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To the person saying it's easy, just grindy, you're wrong. I started a week before U9 and the difficulty ramped up ridiculously for new players when U9 hit. At U10 it ramped up even further with mods harder to find following Drops 2.0, especially rifle damage mods, and only dropping from certain enemies which you didn't get to until way after you needed the mods (lvl 20 enemies). Credits and exp also took a hit meaning it takes even longer for people to get anywhere.

 

We've friends started post U10 who had played a few days before we managed to get online with them. They had managed, together, to get through most of Mercury and had done a couple of Venus missions. Neither one of them (both gamers) had figured out the mods. They had wasted a fair bit of their starter plat on revives because they ran through them so fast trying to kill grineer with unmodded weapons.

 

A week on and they are much better, now they have learnt the necessary tricks of the trade, but that should've been the tutorials job, not ours! If they'd carried on for a couple more days without help they would've quit, and that is happening to a lot of newbies. New players are the lifes blood of the game and this game is haemorrhaging.

Oh god, this. I started my cycle of playing one 'frame and weapon set through the system solo, using only mods I find on the way. This is pretty normal, I've done this with every 'frame except vanilla Excal (which is what I'm running atm, using all the starter gear), vanilla Frost, Nova and Nekros. I only had a Convulsion for damage mods up until 2/3rds of the way through Venus on my Lato, was using super ineffectual attacks from my Skana and never even once used my Braton on account of it being about as effective as throwing spitballs without mods. I ended up re-running Venus and Mercury hoping for some decent mods, maybe some AP (which it delivered for my pistol) or Redirection.

I didn't even find a single rifle damage mod until I was 1/2 way through Mars, which is ridiculous. I am a player with an obscene amount of experience in this game and Earth was nightmarishly difficult for me. It was the hardest experience I've had in this game in a long while. I'm an experienced player, maybe even good at this game and the content that newbies are facing is out-of-revives difficult for me. Level 120 content, sure, I can handle it solo, but Earth is too hard at the point you get there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Earth is too hard in general but it's the mandatory defense missions that are the icing on the pain flavored cake. It's not just the fact that you can't rush through them like you can with the other missions, it's also the fact that the spawns are obviously balanced for four players and that Earth introduces some nasty enemy types that make it a living hell to keep the objective safe without burning through revives in the process.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...