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Let's Talk Liberations (PoE) - Solutions! (kind of)


(NSW)Quarky
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I'm looking for tips specifically on how to handle that huge drop in control percentage right at the start while enemies are spawning in. Once the stream of spawning enemies is steady it's a piece of cake to KO one at a time just to maintain control percentage but I'm finding myself failing before I can even find the first damn grineer. I have this problem with lower level liberations as well but not quite on the same scale as the T5s I'm trying to speed run for lens BPs. I suppose that hints at a kill per second (kps) problem on my end but I have no trouble maintaining percentage, I just seem to have problems buffering that first precipitous drop to safely reach the maintenance point. WHAT DO?!? It's a consistency issue. I can't consistently clear this bounty stage where all the others are a piece of cake.

So first of all, I have a couple specific questions

  • Does each area to control have SET AND CONSISTENT enemy spawn spots?
    • That is, is it reasonable to memorize EXACTLY where enemies will spawn for each unique control zone and be waiting for the drop ship in the first few seconds?
      • Does it use the exact same locations to drop enemies every time?
      • Does it pick from a subset of potential spawn locations?
      • Does someone have this mapped out somewhere?
    • Do drop ships potentially follow the same path from THEIR spawn location to the drop location every time?
      • Can I be waiting along their path to pick them off in those first few seconds?
        • Do I really need my fancy-pantsy rad dmg + pcr Rubico Prime to KO the ships before they even get there in order to survive this hellish bounty stage?
  • Is this huge drop in control percentage (seemingly while enemies are still spawning) potentially a bug?
    • Some forum searches reveal that may indeed be the case.
    • Is there a known trigger if this is true? Is this an avoidable bug?
  • Do I just need MORE ENEMY RADAR?!
    • 60m, 78m while Djinn is alive is pretty damn good, yo. Could more even help?

Let me just clarify my loadout (with annotations) in case there's a huge hole I'm missing. Let me know if you think specific mod loadouts would be helpful, I'd be happy to post those just didn't think it was strictly necessary/helpful. I suspect I might have to ditch Nova for Mesa or maybe Saryn (barf) just to get that consistency with clearing liberations but I dearly love playing Nova so I'm attempting to avoid that, just btw.

  • Nova
    • Slowva, 75% null star damage reduction + adaptation and vitality w/ molecular fission
      • no problems with dying or with energy cuz lul zenurik's bubble of dependence + primed flow
      • honestly, liberations are the only time I'm sad I'm not running speedva in the plains. Maybe I should try that...
    • enemy radar and enemy sense mods
      • how does anyone play without them...? 😛
      • I'm not 100% sure what to replace these with, energy siphon and... lol uh...?
  • Phantasma
    • Corrosive + heat focus, 100% status, 180% multishot, ppb
    • alt-fire = omg yas
    • Suspect this is a weak link but it really really helps crank up the control percentage with its AoE alt-fire if I can find the enemies. I dunno what would be better... Zarr feels worse at this, for example.
  • Twin Rogga
    • 100% status, 180% multishot
    • Can't decide between corr/blast and rad/viral as main damage. Rad/viral is feeling just worse even if it's nice for thumpers
    • OHKOs everything but nox and ships
    • Beastly at maintaining that ~90% control level when I get there
  • Gram Prime
    • heh ❤️
    • my heavy attack / life strike machine + for murdering noxes
    • potentially a weak link, or maybe I'm just not using it enough since it OHKOs nearly everything in T5s anyway
  • Djinn
    • I got tired of reviving my poor kitty kavats and their dumb AI 😞
    • animal instinct, reawaken
    • Sweeper prime w/ viral + multishot hodgepodge mods
    • Just noted I don't have thumper on this guy, I don't think that's a make or break but it might help point me in the right direct during those first few hellish seconds of liberation

So I just typed that wall of text. I was quite annoyed last night. Halp. How do I beat liberations every time?!

Edited by (NSW)Quarky
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Alright, I've come back to provide some actual info for people like me who might be searching the forum in frustration for info on the bounty stage "Liberate the Camp." Just to clarify, I don't think there's a "glitch" or a "bug" causing control level to drop more rapidly than expected. As far as I can tell, everything is consistent. The overall strategy is relatively simple. 1) identify the "drop zones" where foes will spawn and hang out there, 2) eliminate the foes one at a time since you restore more control per enemy than is decayed by their spawn.

First, I strongly doubt you need a specific setup to succeed at T5 liberation stages. No need for Mesa/Saryn/AoE of choice, just use your faves. My above setup with slowva/phantasma works like a charm. I think the key is the ability to be able to instantly melt a single foe at a time which you can do with just about any weapon pending mods. AoE frames may actually be detrimental to success due to killing too fast. What a concept!

That said, here are some numbers that I've determined to the best of my ability:

  • Each foe slain restores 10 percentage points of control level
    • Seems to be independent of everything, foe type/level/eHP/you name it
  • Each foe spawning in the area removes 3 percentage points of control level
    • Seems to be independent of everything, foe type/level/eHP/you name it
  • Control level appears to drop about 1-3 percentage points every second or so, see quote below
    • Had trouble measuring this with spawning enemies
    • Don't think it increases in decay speed as the timer ticks down
      • DOES appear to increase in speed depending on the number of foes in the control area, maxing at 3 percentage points per tic
    • Pretty negligible relative to spawn rates in my opinion, just keep this in mind I suppose

This means the strategy is to SLOWLY (oh so slowly) KILL ALL THE ENEMIES ONE AT A TIME. You can maintain control level by KOing 1 out of 3 enemies, i.e. restore 10 points for every 9 decayed. You are simply hurting your chances of completing the bounty stage if you are KOing enemies while your control level is 90%+, wait until it drops below then just KO a single enemy. Rinse and repeat for 2.5 minutes. Not that this hasn't been said elsewhere on the forum, but I'm reiterating it because I would say it is the "correct" strategy vs. AoE nuking.

Then, the problem is locating the enemy. Please take the below points with a grain of salt. They're "right-enough" for me if not exact. Here's my notes on the subject of foe locating:

  • 3-4 "drop zones" per bounty stage location in the plains
    • Foes will use these "drop zones" for every "liberate the camp" stage across all bounties
    • I think it's 3 drop zones but sometimes I feel like there are two drop zones just about overlapping, not 100% sure.
      • Find 3 zones and you're pretty much good
      • "The Ribs" is crazy annoying though, there are potentially 4 -5 drop zones at this location maybe more. This location, specifically, gives me a headache. I swear I've seen grineer drop from like 5+ unique locations but am not 100% sure because the area is massive. Ugh. Not to mention the cave/tunnel with at least one entrance strictly inside the control zone
  • 2 types of "drops" - via ship and via drop-pod
    • we like the drop-pods, foes get to the ground instantly so there's no "effective delay" between when they drop the control level and when you can slay them (unless you're badass and shoot them out of the air)
  • 3 foes per "drop"
    • at least while I was still able to differentiate between "drops" early on in the stage

Considering this, then. My general strategy is to fly straight up with my archwing as soon as the control gauge appears and note all the drop zones I can. The first wave of spawning enemies will pretty quickly drop you to 70-80% control level but that's to be expected - 1 drop of 3 foes per each of 3 zones should be a 27 percentage point drop in the control gauge not considering the number of seconds that took. Just don't panic, blasting 1 full drop of 3 foes at 1 zone should bring you back up to 100% control and then you can pretty leisurely just KO one at a time. The first 30 seconds are the make or break, if you can build up enough "backlog" of foes to KO then you'll have plenty of buffer to maintain control level. I've had the most trouble at "The Ribs" doing solo T5 since the control area is MASSIVE and has lots of annoying cover for the grineer to hide behind and wait for your control gauge to tick down. I think CC frames are best here instead of dps/kps frames. Our weapons can slaughter the clones fast enough but generally have fewer options for keeping the foes grouped or locked down for later slaying.

I have updated info on ships courtesy a responded in this thread below:

On 2020-01-02 at 10:10 AM, TheLexiConArtist said:

1) Each extant unit on a ship AND the ship itself is classed, from initial spawn, as a 'control drain' source. Firbolgs typically have 3 units sat on them (but can range 1-4). Bolkors may not technically have existing units in them until parked and dumping them out.

2) Killing a Firbolg also counts as killing each unit sat on it, as long as it's not yet 'parked' and unit disembarking animations haven't begun to play.

3) Ships as well as the existing units on them will grant control on kill, including retreating ships (10%) and Firbolgs causing collateral damage deaths to units sat on them. This means popping a ship on the way in is usually worth 40%. 

Control drains at 0% (no sources), 1%/s (approx. 1-5 sources) and 3%/s (>5 sources). Typically, dropping objective units below 5 will trigger an instant spawn of a new ship or orbital drop squad, so AOE kills aren't completely killing your odds. However, this depends on whether you're capable of picking off ships or their units in the air, as some of the fly-in paths are slow and long (and can even get ships stuck).

I have at least confirmed that Firbolgs grant control upon being destroyed and that control drains at 3 percentage points per tic once the bounty stage is in full swing. This was enough for me to simply assume the rest of the above is accurate/accurate enough.

I hadn't particularly thought of using specters since I'm so macho and solo everything heh but a responder to this thread has brought to my attention that specters may possibly know where enemies are better than we humans:

4 hours ago, (NSW)Mycroft said:

If you take a spectre or other backup companion that you activate from your gear wheel, they'll run off in the direction of the bad guys so that kind of indicates where they are, or if your flying in a xiphos dropship the backup drop for that is s sentry gun, that does little damage but again you can follow the direction of its attacks. So as much cover and you can muster really.

----

I'm sure you can all figure this out on your own but I had trouble finding this info already spelled out so maybe I'll save you some time and headache by having typed it out here.

Best of luck out there, may RNGesus smile on you!

Edited by (NSW)Quarky
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19 minutes ago, CephalonDizzy said:

My go to for this is:

Slowva + Staticor (install Vile Acceleration and mod for corrosive) + some kind of enemy radar either on your Warframe or companion.

AOE blast everything to death even at the highest level bounty,

That's more or less what I'm doing, no? Phantasma for AoE blasting everything to death with minimum 60m enemy radar. Just a tap of the alt-fire OHKOs T5 regular enemies, gotta double tap for those mortar turrets and noxes, tho. Everything dies just fine but what do you do about the first 5-15 seconds of a liberation where the control level drops insanely fast while the enemies are first spawning in but haven't dropped yet? Do you KO the dropships with staticor...?

1 minute ago, Thrundarr said:

May be use Ember (Prime)?

1. Tanky enough (with 2) to survive even on lvl5 missions.

2. Press 4 to clear a sector, awesome for ftat map clears or just bulletjump sufficiently high.

Bring a Cyanex to outright delete everything in caves.

The premise of this post is that I want to use Nova and understand that Mesa/DPS frames are strictly better for liberations from a kps perspective. Interesting you suggest Ember, though. Why didn't you go to Mesa who is the traditional choice with her 95% DR, weapon jamming, and OP af 4?

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3 minutes ago, (NSW)Quarky said:

The premise of this post is that I want to use Nova and understand that Mesa/DPS frames are strictly better for liberations from a kps perspective. Interesting you suggest Ember, though. Why didn't you go to Mesa who is the traditional choice with her 95% DR, weapon jamming, and OP af 4?

Mesa needs to not only see the enemy, she needs to somewhat point her crosshairs into the target, you need to aim. Ember just needs a sector of clear view, regardless of height, so just glancing into direction and pressing 4 is enough. Ember's DR (if built right) is almost the same and good enough even for sortie3 content, not mentioning lvl5 PoE bounties. Also her 4th aug combined with enough crowd density and maxed effectiveness can support you with all the energy you will ever need.

Nova is fine too, with auto-targeting projectiles of Cyanex she can be outright devastating, but you need to actively search for enemies.

As for me, for the purposes of slowing enemies down I do not need to do that en-masse, I only use it for thumpers and Zenurik blast is enough there. I also actively use Octavia and her ball can search for enemies on itself sometimes, which is good for starting seconds of liberation.

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53 minutes ago, Thrundarr said:

Mesa needs to not only see the enemy, she needs to somewhat point her crosshairs into the target, you need to aim. Ember just needs a sector of clear view, regardless of height, so just glancing into direction and pressing 4 is enough. Ember's DR (if built right) is almost the same and good enough even for sortie3 content, not mentioning lvl5 PoE bounties. Also her 4th aug combined with enough crowd density and maxed effectiveness can support you with all the energy you will ever need.

Nova is fine too, with auto-targeting projectiles of Cyanex she can be outright devastating, but you need to actively search for enemies.

As for me, for the purposes of slowing enemies down I do not need to do that en-masse, I only use it for thumpers and Zenurik blast is enough there. I also actively use Octavia and her ball can search for enemies on itself sometimes, which is good for starting seconds of liberation.

I'll accept Mesa has a smaller field of view than Ember but both are line of sight reliant. If I don't have line of sight I can't drop the control percentage anyway which is part of the reason I'm trying to find a solution with a frame I actually enjoy. Cyanex sounds like an interesting solution. The best I can figure is that I could potentially just unload in a direction and pray the arcing projectiles find a target my fleshy human eyes missed but if I'm already at 20-40% control level by the time the drop ship arrives... well I'm still S#&$ outta luck, huh? Besides, Phantasma has homing projectiles, 80% of the time with 180% multishot, there's 15 homing projectiles per alt-fire shot which puts the Cyanex to shame with it's 11 clip magazine.

----

So in continuing to hash this out for myself, I wonder if using Nova's 4 too early is exacerbating my "first few seconds" problem. I was thinking tagging them with Nova's 4 using a bright energy color would help locate them faster (cuz their freakin' plains camo colors actually work on me for crying out loud) for routine disposal but it's potentially clumping groups, and keeping them clumped, at opposite ends of the control area. That would be a HUGE kps obstacle. I'll also have to try going back to Rubico but it struggles a bit against the high level dropships. Considering my Twin Rogga charges Nova's 2 instantly for 15m AoE wall ignoring lulz, maybe Phantasma should be switched out for the Rubico even though Phantasma fills my AoE + homing needs perfectly. Maybe those needs are just unnecessary.

Rubico Prime + Octavia seems like it might be an extremely solid solution. Rubico to attempt to KO ships ASAP and her roving AoE damage machine for the grineer I missed.

Gosh darn it. Why can I breeze through 8/9 bounty stage types with a hodgepodge setup but have to optimize to deal with the 9th that, alone, can fail the whole bounty? Also do they ever release T5 bounties without a liberation component? Not sure I recall one, ever. Rabblrabblrabble.

Edited by (NSW)Quarky
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1 hour ago, (NSW)Quarky said:

Do you KO the dropships with staticor...?

Not necsssarily kill the drop ships, but you can kill the enemies before they jump off.

The reason I find Staticor so effective is because not only does the alt fire have an 8m blast radius, the normal fire also has a 2m blast radius.

You shoot that thing very fast with vile acceleration and carpet bomb a large area very efficiently. 

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2 hours ago, CephalonDizzy said:

Not necsssarily kill the drop ships, but you can kill the enemies before they jump off.

The reason I find Staticor so effective is because not only does the alt fire have an 8m blast radius, the normal fire also has a 2m blast radius.

You shoot that thing very fast with vile acceleration and carpet bomb a large area very efficiently. 

Right, I feel like that's essentially my strategy and it works fantastically well.... when my control level doesn't drop to 0% before I can #*!%ing find a single enemy within 60m with my enemy radar mods excuse my #*!%ing french.

I guess my questions boil down to "how do you find the enemies fast enough to happily maintain a steady stream to keep control level floating around 80%+"? I can kill them just fine. I just don't know how to reiterate that failing a liberation stage without finding a single enemy (despite 60m enemy radar) or maybe just 1-3 to KO is frustrating to the extreme.

I guess the other "trick" beyond "not using molecular prime immediately" I've thought of in this time is to load my archwing and fly straight up when the control timer appears. Get my bearing, locate the foe and bli... fly straight to 'em. (RIP Itzal.) The control level just drops so fast... Are there any other "best practice" type strategies like this out there?

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30 minutes ago, (NSW)Quarky said:

Lastly, don't shoot the ships. If you KO the ships before they drop the grineer, you aren't going to get control level restore for the grineer even if they still blow up with the ship, that's a net control level loss. The Bolkor was the only thing remotely damaging on the plains to null star/adaptation slowva and it was just a massive waste of time and control level to try and shoot its turret. Just take cover until it leaves while you continue to slowly (oh so slowly) eliminate the clones.

Bolkors aside, this is incorrect.

1) Each extant unit on a ship AND the ship itself is classed, from initial spawn, as a 'control drain' source. Firbolgs typically have 3 units sat on them (but can range 1-4). Bolkors may not technically have existing units in them until parked and dumping them out.

2) Killing a Firbolg also counts as killing each unit sat on it, as long as it's not yet 'parked' and unit disembarking animations haven't begun to play.

3) Ships as well as the existing units on them will grant control on kill, including retreating ships (10%) and Firbolgs causing collateral damage deaths to units sat on them. This means popping a ship on the way in is usually worth 40%. 

 

Control drains at 0% (no sources), 1%/s (approx. 1-5 sources) and 3%/s (>5 sources). Typically, dropping objective units below 5 will trigger an instant spawn of a new ship or orbital drop squad, so AOE kills aren't completely killing your odds. However, this depends on whether you're capable of picking off ships or their units in the air, as some of the fly-in paths are slow and long (and can even get ships stuck).

Rollers are your worst nightmare because while counting like any other unit, most of the time they ignore you and go on a magical journey where you don't find them until you have to clear up remaining enemies and get a marker on them 500+m away from any action.

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...

Edit: I saw you wanted nova...the best I could think of is wormhole speedva with ingnis, redeemer and a good gaze build.
There is two places that I remember that the drop zones are so far apart that you need the wormhole.


But why make your life hard if you just want to do the bounties, not using mesa/ember? They are not that interesting to be considered a challenge imo 

Edited by vegetosayajin
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That unbalanced turd of an objective is why I dont run bounties.  But if u are after Eido lens bp u got no choice.  I use all kinds of frames to solo T5's, If I ever need to run those again I will try to kill slower....

I got lua frames/weapons for all 5 schools tho and just unbound every waybound.  Im good to go.   Now i just get to focus farm for the fun stuff like pool points and normal nodes.

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My suggestion is max range/efficiency Octavia to trivialize ALL cetus bounties (not eidolons bounties obv).

The biggest issue I ever have with the liberate objective is when the enemies are in caves below the objective and even with crazy enemy radar range you won't know it.  But learning the maps where it can happen helps.

 

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4 hours ago, vegetosayajin said:

...

Edit: I saw you wanted nova...the best I could think of is wormhole speedva with ingnis, redeemer and a good gaze build.
There is two places that I remember that the drop zones are so far apart that you need the wormhole.


But why make your life hard if you just want to do the bounties, not using mesa/ember? They are not that interesting to be considered a challenge imo 

Nova = ❤️!!! I like to make my life hard because I enjoy a challenge and not just vacuuming up pixels on a screen. If the grind isn't fun it's just a job... which I already have. Besides, Nova is better than Mesa/Ember anyway no bias just facts 😂

At least one of the stage settings with drop zones >150m (at my best guess) apart is the "The Ribs". It also has a cave/tunnel where enemies sometimes get stuck thanks to their wonderful pathfinding. That's the last location I can't consistently punk these days. That said I have all the Eidolon BPs I "need" so screw PoE bounties heh. Eidolons are way more fun anyway.

4 hours ago, (PS4)AbBaNdOn_ said:

That unbalanced turd of an objective is why I dont run bounties.  But if u are after Eido lens bp u got no choice.  I use all kinds of frames to solo T5's, If I ever need to run those again I will try to kill slower....

I got lua frames/weapons for all 5 schools tho and just unbound every waybound.  Im good to go.   Now i just get to focus farm for the fun stuff like pool points and normal nodes.

Hell yeah, dude. I'm on to lua lens farming now. I just need to craft my vazarin, unairu and naramon luas then I have all 5 schools and x2 zen. I'm working on unbinding everything now and plan to retire to zenurik to farm capacity points 😛

59 minutes ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

My suggestion is max range/efficiency Octavia to trivialize ALL cetus bounties (not eidolons bounties obv).

The biggest issue I ever have with the liberate objective is when the enemies are in caves below the objective and even with crazy enemy radar range you won't know it.  But learning the maps where it can happen helps.

 

The point of my reaching out for help was because I felt that it was absurd for me to need to use a specific frame to clear relatively low level content when I wasn't struggling nearly as much with arbie-qs or sorties in the same setting, namely solo Nova. Octavia trivializes everything, btw. Infinitely scaling damage, hard CC, invisibility, literally what other boxes are there to check for "endgame ready"? I guess she can't go invincible for a couple seconds and cure status? Rolling guard: done! Oh and she can't speed enemies up hehehehe. Nova bestva.

Luckily I haven't really had an issue with caves in locations other than "The Ribs" but even then it was fairly rare in my experience. I was running with >75m enemy radar, though, which I'm sure helped.

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8 minutes ago, (NSW)Quarky said:

Nova = ❤️!!! I like to make my life hard because I enjoy a challenge and not just vacuuming up pixels on a screen. If the grind isn't fun it's just a job... which I already have. Besides, Nova is better than Mesa/Ember anyway no bias just facts 😂

 

As one fellow nova main to another, I salute you, good sir! ;D

Still I don't consider a bad design a challenge, just an inconvenience. That's why I take my gun-butt frame to ease my play. 
 

8 minutes ago, (NSW)Quarky said:

Octavia trivializes everything, btw. Infinitely scaling damage, hard CC, invisibility, literally what other boxes are there to check for "endgame ready"?

psst, not so loud!!!
de nerf-bots will hear you... 😄

Edited by vegetosayajin
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