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Enough to make me quit playing.


Blunt_Trauma
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Let me start off by saying I'm no stranger to the grind. I've been here since it was possible to make over 1k+ plat off of 1 Void key as a solo player. In comes the Relic system, okay. Cool, you don't want us to start building the entire Prime Access within hours of release, whatever that is fine. Make making plat more time consuming, no big deal really.

Now introduce the Lich system, "end game" content. Here is where I start to get pissed...

Not only is it by-passable with platinum, it forces SEVERAL layers of RNG and grind upon the player if you choose not to spend plat. You ignored the system entirely because Disruption is more fun and more challenging, and you could careless about BOOOORING Kuva weaponry? Before you know it, you have actual hours of grind in front of you just to earn something as trivial as credits in order to build your Railjack. That's right. From here on out if you don't spend plat in the market/hours in Trade chat, you forfeit millions of Credits and thousands of other resources and are forced into....

1) Grind murmurs or whispers or whatever. In the long run, this is going to take HOURS on it's own.

2) Grind requiem relics. That's right, and entirely new Relic among the THOUSANDS you may already #*!%ing own. And you need all of them. You are going to need all of them because they always change and they also expire. And not only do you have to get lucky with Kuva Siphons and Thralls in order to just obtain them, the Requiem mod is a silver-tier reward. Which means you are most likely going to spend traces. Traces already take hours to earn. Are you seeing a trend here??

3) NOW.... you get to fight your Lich and finally get back to earning your credits from Index so you can build your goddamn Railjack..? WRONG. Now you have to die to your Lich as many time as RNG #*!%ing wishes you to because you have to order the Requiem mods correctly. And the "reward" for all of this? A buffed version of a universally trash tier weapon. And of course, the degree of the buff is based upon a randomly generated number.

 

 

TLDR;.. I don't give a flying fornication about randomly generated rewards, I've already accepted that for what it is. What I do give a S#&$ about is this goddamn Lich taking 100% of my credits from Index because I don't feel like taking part in endless layers of RNG in order to stop him from doing so. Though Railjack looks so effing cool and I do wish I had my own to truly experience it, I'm ready to say #*!% it. I will not miss this game.

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2 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

How is it By-passable with platinum? I didnt see anywhere i could press that says "Pay X platinum to Instant Kill Lich and claim rewards".

If you don't think that paying X Platinum for Y Requiem Relics doesn't bypass several layers of RNG, then idk what to tell you friend.

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8 minutes ago, Blunt_Trauma said:

If you don't think that paying X Platinum for Y Requiem Relics doesn't bypass several layers of RNG, then idk what to tell you friend.

Yes i know, its a pack that comes with one of each relique, one of each Requem Mod and a set of armor pieces but no one buys it more than once due to the price and because they would be piling up on armor pieces, its more of a "Get started" pack than a ByPass. That still doesnt make it a "Payed Bypass" as you still have to do the missions to discover the Lich's weakness then find out the right sequence.
There has been Platinum payed Relic packs ever since the "Specters of the Rail" update was introduced and i didnt see people complaining about those, also players can also sell/trade the Requem Relics with other players so by your logic that would still count as a payed bypass.

Edited by BiancaRoughfin
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11 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Yes i know, its a pack that comes with one of each relique, one of each Requem Mod and a set of armor pieces but no one buys it more than once due to the price and because they would be piling up on armor pieces. That still doesnt make it a "Payed Bypass" as you still have to do the missions to discover the Lich's weakness then find out the right sequence.
There has been Platinum payed Relic packs ever since the "Specters of the Rail" update was introduced and i didnt see people complaining about those, also players can also sell/trade the Requem Relics with other players so by your logic that would still count as a payed bypass.

You're wrong because,

1) Syndicate relic packs exist, not that you don't already own hundreds anyways. (with a diluted drop table, at that)

2) Due to Disruption, it will remain the far more efficient method to obtain Kuva while still providing your "end game experience". What I'm trying to say is Kuva Floods are a waste of goddamn time now, if not for providing the only guaranteed source of Requiem Relics outside of paying for them.

37 minutes ago, Blunt_Trauma said:

if you don't spend plat in the market/hours in Trade chat

3) Another waste of time in a "free game"

Edited by Blunt_Trauma
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The true purpose behind the RNG bonuses on weapons is to pad out content and give you something to chase that DE doesn't have to constantly babysit and shove new toys into.  Because anybody complaining about RNG or grind is inevitably in one of two states - complaining about what it takes to get an item, or complaining about not having any items to get.  Really, it's a no win situation for them, so it's better to focus on the people more interested in the journey, or even the excuse to go on one, than those interested in the destination itself.

I'm sorry, but if the reason you even log in is to chase carrots on a stick, no developer in their right mind would want you to catch that carrot too quickly.

Edited by Lost_Cartographer
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2 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

At some point Warframe stopped being a "free game" and switched into a "free clump of skinner box abuses". 

At some point people have to actually ask themselves if they play a game for fun or just because. Neither you nor DE gains anything from continuing to engage with people that no longer have a connection to the game.

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Sorry if the rant went on so long that the purpose of it didn't shine through.

I logged on expecting to have to farm in order to build and play with my Railjack.

What I did not expect was having to grind through a ridiculously convoluted Lich system, because The Index is locked behind him so long as he lives (and I don't have the remaining millions of credits required to fund said Railjack, which already takes hours to earn without a booster).

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3 hours ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

Because anybody complaining about RNG or grind is inevitably in one of two states - complaining about what it takes to get an item, or complaining about not having any items to get.

Demonstrably false, to say nothing of unsubstantiated. You didn't even attempt to qualify this in any way, just went directly to "anybody." Well, I'm "anybody" and I enjoy Warframe the most when it stops yanking my balls and just lets me play the damn game the way I want to play it. I've never complained about "not having any items to get." If you don't believe me, go through my post history. You'll find the opposite - numerous claims that "things to get" isn't the same thing as "things to do." When most people complain, it's because they're bored of the existing game and want something new TO DO. "Things to earn" are not content. They're a pacifier at best, a waste of my time at worst, and definitely not what those of us who actually enjoy Warframe want.

The Kuva Lich system has just about nothing new to actually do. None of the Lich mechanics are unique but the "death by cutscene," and that one isn't exactly popular. Nightwave has literally nothing new to actually do. It's rewards tied to old content. The Jovian Concord? Now that's more stuff to do. On top of a new boss fight and a new game mode, it gave us an entirely new tileset to play around in, refreshing even old gameplay modes which took place there. Fortuna? That might have been excessively shallow, but it gave us a whole new location with a new take on old missions, a few new boss fights, a new vehicle, more places to use our Archwings and a bunch of new mechanics. Railjack? That's whole new game, essentially.

Except when it came to Fortuna, actually enjoying those new game systems took a lot of grind. Rank 5 with Solaris United to even get a sniff of any of the boss fight. With Railjack, it's even worse because the starting gear is GENUINELY terrible to an unpleasant degree and you can't even use all the new toys on the ship until you've gone through a lot of grind playing Railjack in the dullest, least compelling way possible. And even then, the game mode is hobbled by a slow ship with no room for mods, terrible weapons which aren't fun to use and a very heavy difficulty gate. In both cases, actually getting to DO the new "stuff to do" required a long, boring grind.

I care about the rewards only to the extent that they're required to access content in a pleasant manner. What I care about - and what I assert a plurality of players care about as well - is HAVING access to said content in the first place. We'll play things that aren't fun to a point just to GET to that content, but when it's buried under so much grinding through fractal RNG... It stops being worth the trouble. Doubly so when DE seem to be slowly but steadily moving away from designing game systems and more towards designing Skinner boxes. Posts like yours make it clear why. Apparently, nobody actually likes Warframe. We wouldn't play the game if we weren't literally being paid to do so. Without the conditioning, without getting our next fix, without getting the next treat to make us keep ringing that bell, we would leave and find a game we actually enjoy playing.

If DE are this terrified of players leaving the moment the rewards stop, then that speaks to a fundamental lack of faith in their own product.

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OP and fellow Tenno who are tired/angered/etc with DE’s recent decisions to double down on RNG loot-box like mechanics.  Take the advise of the players who said to leave or play something else, and vote with your wallet.  DE knows players are upset with the loot box RNG death machine of Kuva lichs but said in their devstream they will not change the system. Then they tied the loot box system to Railjack parts.  If uninstalling the Gabe keto far I understand, but I implore you don’t spend any money.  If they chose to ignore us when we’re unhappy with a decision, fine.  We just won’t spend our money until they address our concerns and implement the changes that have been provided in many feedback threads to make the game rewarding.   

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Thank you for posting this; I have the same exact problem... God damn it is awful.

When I first got my lich (the only one so far) I interacted with it a bit but got bored pretty quick. I still needed one requiem mod and RNGezus wouldn't let me have it, so I quit and played other games. I thought he would just sit in the background, collecting his 'idiot tax' and doing nothing else. Rising Tide came and I thought I'd have way more time to grind out the Railjack stuff later.

But then Railjack flight came. Way early, too!

This was a good thing, so I hopped right back on Warframe to get my Railjack in order. Got the Cephelon and recovered the first part. Then it was on to building; I knew what resources I needed for each part already.

I thought, "Just do the Index a few times and get the credits out of the way for all the parts," right?

NOPE

Accursed Lich boi steals ALL your index rewards. My response was not frustration and sorrow, but anger and a genuine desire to end that bastard's life.

"Finally, a reason to kill that sonofabaych!"

But then I remembered I still needed to endure the RNG to get the dumb mod so he'll actually die.

The problem isn't Liches stealing rewards (they really should be an antagonist somehow), it's the BS Requiem mod crap absolutely ruining the whole system!!!

I wish I never made my Lich, and I'll never make one again. At least until the Kingpin system is overhauled to be not Requiem mod dependent. It should be that Requiems add vulnerabilities to the Lich (and they're killable without them), not a requirement to do anything with them. Maybe they can be killed to lessen their influence, but not 'vanquishable' without them still? I'd rather their weaknesses and quirks be the key to beating them (way more like Shadow of Mordor) with the Requiems adding more weaknesses and quirks. Requiems could also make existing vulnerabilities worse for them.

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6 hours ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

The true purpose behind the RNG bonuses on weapons is to pad out content and give you something to chase that DE doesn't have to constantly babysit and shove new toys into.  Because anybody complaining about RNG or grind is inevitably in one of two states - complaining about what it takes to get an item, or complaining about not having any items to get.  Really, it's a no win situation for them, so it's better to focus on the people more interested in the journey, or even the excuse to go on one, than those interested in the destination itself.

I'm sorry, but if the reason you even log in is to chase carrots on a stick, no developer in their right mind would want you to catch that carrot too quickly.

I don't care about the damn weapon...I have been activity avoiding playing warframe because this..S#&$..

It is not a "experience" It's a #*!%ing grindwall with RNG all over It to create a system and relic set to jerk off Riven mods more...

I have already stated my peace of removing the Reqruim mods and instead having to find concordance to their recreation chamber as a idea and even things to improve how they should work..

There is no logical reason for It to be this grinddy...To kill one person,who littery is not hard to kill because "They adept"..But,because they did not grind enough for the right mods on some newly added trash item which will be forgotten about in a few months. (that arm dagger)...And once you do grind em,you just spam until you get the right combo and win..

 

I'm sorry how is my idea worst when It is a actual experience and not just playing bop-it.

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8 hours ago, Blunt_Trauma said:

2) Grind requiem relics. That's right, and entirely new Relic among the THOUSANDS you may already #*!%ing own. And you need all of them. You are going to need all of them because they always change and they also expire. And not only do you have to get lucky with Kuva Siphons and Thralls in order to just obtain them, the Requiem mod is a silver-tier reward. Which means you are most likely going to spend traces. Traces already take hours to earn. Are you seeing a trend here??

Just wanted to comment on this part. Regarding requiem relics and mods, some small amount of farming is necessary to start, but once you're up and running:

1) You get more than enough relics to cover the cost (in requiem mods) of finishing one Lich, just from hunting thralls for that Lich. You only need to bother with siphons if you want the kuva as well.

2) It's more efficient to farm and crack open another intact requiem relic than it is to farm traces to upgrade relics. Traces are just there to save you if you're particularly unlucky with a specific mod.

 

The rest of the thrall grind, however, is monotonous. Only reason I tolerate it is because I like collecting Liches :-P.

 

Edited by schilds
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8 hours ago, FreeWilliam said:

It's new optional content in a free game that didn't exist before you got upset about it.

iTs fReE sO yOu CanT cOmPLaIN

Seriously, saying it's free does not mean DE is immune from criticism, despite what you may believe.

 

Hold up, it double posted

Edited by nerfinator6
forums be broken
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9 hours ago, Blunt_Trauma said:

 

1) Grind murmurs or whispers or whatever. In the long run, this is going to take HOURS on it's own.

It does not take HOURS to grind murmurs. You get them at a constant rate. I killed TWO Lichs in under and hour. The requim mods are uncommon drops, you get 4 people running the relics and you can get mods quick. 

The Lich system is actually less grindy then anything else they have released, Its not difficult to farm what you require, or even all that time consuming. I dont think your complaint if hours of grinding holds much merit. Plus is also optional to complete. 

If you had a complaint about the price of a Railjack: Go play Elite Dangerous and go buy yourself an Imperial Cutter, you dont know the meaning of the word grind until you try to do that. 

I'll take any grind that DE has in place compared to that. 

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1 hour ago, Isokaze_BestKaze said:

You realize you can just get the Liche off the Index node by doing the Liche mission here ? He can't collect the taxe if he's not on the node anymore.

Wrong, you need to clear him off the planet for him to stop stealing stuff on that planet, regardless of the node.

That is, unless DE decided to fix it.

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Maybe It's because you just getting start at kuva lich. I have done 70 kuva lich and i already have 400 relics. I get all the relics from thralls, so you don't have to worry about traces and relics at all. Each kuva lich only consume one Requiem mod. You just need 5min in kuva survival for one mod, sine you need 40min~2h to kill a lich, the time cost is negligible.The only RNG that matter is reward,others doesnt effect the game play.

.

Edited by BRZZAFK
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