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DawnMad

Railjack Gun Bonuses Are Tied to The Gun Type

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What I mean by the title is, for example, a Zetki Mk3 Carcinnox will always have a fire rate bonus, a Vidar Mk3 Carcinnox will always have a damage bonus,  Zetki Mk3 Cryophon will always have fire rate etc. Just something I thought was interesting.

 

EDIT: I have tested this in about 20 weapons. If anyone has gotten something different please post it.

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Ya that looks like it. I hope it changes to different stats. Right now 1 is just unquestionably better then the others.

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And in general zerki also has highest base damage.
So a vidar with lower damage + bonus but same fire rate is  more or less worse.

These tiny crit/status differences mean nothing.

And crafting costs are equally astronomical. So that doesn't play a role either.

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3 minutes ago, Ketec said:

And crafting costs are equally astronomical. So that doesn't play a role either.

I've found Zekti is more expensive than the other two, so even the devs agree that it's by far the best

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Just now, Ketec said:

And in general zerki also has highest base damage.
So a vidar with lower damage + bonus but same fire rate is  more or less worse.

These tiny crit/status differences mean nothing.

And crafting costs are equally astronomical.

Damage isnt all though.

Vidar seems to win across the board.

Normal base damage, good crit and status when you reach mk3 and they come with dirty cheap heat costs. This means they are easy to manage, can get great benefit from crit damage avionics.

Zetki just eats through your heat, even when you have heat management bonuses from avionics and captain skills.

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7 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

I've found Zekti is more expensive than the other two, so even the devs agree that it's by far the best

Zetki has 2-3x the heat build up per shot.  They're ALL burst fire weapons at that point, and the extra fire rate means they'll require even more finesse to use properly.  The exception is the photor, which gets +damage.  Still overheats fast with Zetki, but it's more efficient about it, though photor DPS is lower to begin with so meh.

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1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

Damage isnt all though.

Vidar seems to win across the board.

Normal base damage, good crit and status when you reach mk3 and they come with dirty cheap heat costs. This means they are easy to manage, can get great benefit from crit damage avionics.

Zetki just eats through your heat, even when you have heat management bonuses from avionics and captain skills.

I agree with this and want to add that, for example in Carcinnox case Zetki only has around 50% more damage than Vidar variant but it heats up 3 times faster. Additionally Vidar can get a damage bonus % while Zetki gets a fire rate % which worsens its heat up even more. So I would say Vidar Mk3 Carcinnox is superior to Zetki Mk3 Carcinnox.

But in Cryphons case, since it is a high damage per hit weapon which is used mostly like a Semi Auto, if you combine it with the Polar Coil avionic, which increases heat capacity, Zetki version of it would be the superior one with its highest base damage.

 

It all depends on the weapon I guess.

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3 minutes ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

Zetki has 2-3x the heat build up per shot.  They're ALL burst fire weapons at that point, and the extra fire rate means they'll require even more finesse to use properly.  The exception is the photor, which gets +damage.  Still overheats fast with Zetki, but it's more efficient about it, though photor DPS is lower to begin with so meh.

Yeah the heat was building up three times as fast, but we were killing three times as fast, a trade off weighted heavily in our favor

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4 minutes ago, DawnMad said:

I agree with this and want to add that, for example in Carcinnox case Zetki only has around 50% more damage than Vidar variant but it heats up 3 times faster. Additionally Vidar can get a damage bonus % while Zetki gets a fire rate % which worsens its heat up even more. So I would say Vidar Mk3 Carcinnox is superior to Zetki Mk3 Carcinnox.

But in Cryphons case, since it is a high damage per hit weapon which is used mostly like a Semi Auto, if you combine it with the Polar Coil avionic, which increases heat capacity, Zetki version of it would be the superior one with its highest base damage.

 

It all depends on the weapon I guess.

Indeed, I should have mentioned Cryo. The benefit of Vidar's low cost on that does not make up for the damage lost. Vidar only gets around 2 more shots off with Polar Coil compared to Zetki. The pure damage from Zetki clearly wins in that case since it isnt about sustained fire, but burst. Even with Zetki you will have enough breathing room between shots to reduce heat.

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6 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Yeah the heat was building up three times as fast, but we were killing three times as fast, a trade off weighted heavily in our favor

Not exactly, more like double, and that's if you hit them with every shot.  Heat build up doesn't care.  DPS does, and we're not dealing with just one target and being offered a lull very often here.

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1 minute ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

Not exactly, more like double, and that's if you hit them with every shot.  Heat build up doesn't care.  DPS does, and we're not dealing with just one target and being offered a lull very often here.

I've actually had to quit out from a few missions since the host used Zetki "sustained" dps weapons on the side turrets. It just becomes a chore to be a gunner in such a ship. I far prefer being able to start shooting at distant targets aswell as being able to handle fighters back to back. If I try that with Zetki I'll overheat before they get close, or in the case of several fighters you heat up before having time to start firing on the next.

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1 hour ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

Not exactly, more like double, and that's if you hit them with every shot.  Heat build up doesn't care.  DPS does, and we're not dealing with just one target and being offered a lull very often here.

You do you, because I'm not going to say you're entirely wrong or even mostly wrong. But when I try and track fighters, one or two bursts from Zekti followed by spinning around to find the next target I can actually hit means faster kills with roughly the same amount of overheat

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4 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

You do you, because I'm not going to say you're entirely wrong or even mostly wrong. But when I try and track fighters, one or two bursts from Zekti followed by spinning around to find the next target I can actually hit means faster kills with roughly the same amount of overheat

Generally... but that depends on your accuracy, and whether or not there are like, 6+ fighters in front of you already.  Or a damn ramsled filled with level 80 grineer that can't seem to fly in a straight line long enough for the lead marker to matter.

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21 hours ago, DawnMad said:

EDIT: I have tested this in about 20 weapons. If anyone has gotten something different please post it.

I've experienced the same as you. To me, weapon damage bonus is always the way to go. +fire rate just means i overheat faster.

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I have almost all the weapon comparisons on my guide and adding the ones that aren't there. If interested in the subject , you could check it out and/or help me with some Screenshots to finish it. Would appreciate it!

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On 2019-12-18 at 2:19 PM, SneakyErvin said:

Damage isnt all though.

Vidar seems to win across the board.

Normal base damage, good crit and status when you reach mk3 and they come with dirty cheap heat costs. This means they are easy to manage, can get great benefit from crit damage avionics.

Zetki just eats through your heat, even when you have heat management bonuses from avionics and captain skills.

That's how it looks from watching streams.  Zekti has really high burst DPS, but overheats almost instantly.  Any gunners that aren't being careful (also known as every PUG gunner ever) will spend more time waiting for the weapon to cool off and reset than actually shooting anything.  Vidar doesn't have the biggest DPS stats, but it fires longer and doesn't heat up as fast.  Unless someone just tapes down the fire button, the gaps when they aren't shooting seem to be mostly enough to clear the heat buildup most of the time.

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11 minutes ago, DarthIronclad said:

does lavan have any advantages? vidar is base damage and zekti is fire rate...

As i see. Lavan and Vidar seems to share the same base damage while Lavan favors more in status chance and for Vidar is the crit.

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hmm,was always wondering if crit or status is better for railjack weapons,been mainly using viard weapons so far...so cant really tell until i do some extensive testing when i get a lavan one.

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On 2019-12-18 at 5:19 PM, SneakyErvin said:

Damage isnt all though.

Vidar seems to win across the board.

Normal base damage, good crit and status when you reach mk3 and they come with dirty cheap heat costs. This means they are easy to manage, can get great benefit from crit damage avionics.

Zetki just eats through your heat, even when you have heat management bonuses from avionics and captain skills.

Well... Vidar Pulsar is crap for status (and that Ionic status is pretty good), with Zekti providing the max status chance and highest damage per shot so that fighters have a higher chance of exploding when crashing into something (at least, that seems to be the case so far).

Zekti Carcinnox is excellent for proccing Chem status and softening up enemies to be destroyed by the other enemies.

So yeah... Vidar isn't exactly winning across the board.

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5 hours ago, Renegade343 said:

Well... Vidar Pulsar is crap for status (and that Ionic status is pretty good), with Zekti providing the max status chance and highest damage per shot so that fighters have a higher chance of exploding when crashing into something (at least, that seems to be the case so far).

Zekti Carcinnox is excellent for proccing Chem status and softening up enemies to be destroyed by the other enemies.

So yeah... Vidar isn't exactly winning across the board.

And that is when you go with Lavan. The 2% extra status and minimal extra damage that Zetki has doesnt make up for the 3x higher heat build up.

Zetki = Cryo and Photor

Vidar = Balanced crit/status choice for the other 3

Lavan = Status choice for the other 3

I mean the actual damage between Zetki and Vidar/Lavan is minimal on all weapons aside from Cryo and Photor. If you get a Vidar/Lavan in the +50% damage range you break even with Zetki in pure damage. Sure Zetki will have extra RoF, but that is both a boon and a bane at the same time given how heat hungry they are, since it makes them build heat even faster than the baseline value.

Vidar is just the most balanced.

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4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And that is when you go with Lavan. The 2% extra status and minimal extra damage that Zetki has doesnt make up for the 3x higher heat build up.

You pretty much only need to reapply Chem status periodically. And the goal is softening them up enough to be destroyed by other fighters, Lavan's weaker in that regard, so Zekti edges out, because once you soften up one target enough, you switch to another. That depends more on burst DOT than sustained DOT.

I tried using both, Zekti feels much better than Lavan for Carcinnox.

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I mean the actual damage between Zetki and Vidar/Lavan is minimal on all weapons aside from Cryo and Photor. If you get a Vidar/Lavan in the +50% damage range you break even with Zetki in pure damage. Sure Zetki will have extra RoF, but that is both a boon and a bane at the same time given how heat hungry they are, since it makes them build heat even faster than the baseline value.

And that's when you learn to release the trigger. Like, has all other weapons you used in Warframe not taught you that?

Besides, not all Zekti has extra RoF as bonus.

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