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Feedback on recent RNG mechanics


(XBOX)MetroViper527
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Having items locked behind rng walls isn't content. Having story quests locked behind rng walls isn't content. Having weapons, and even the stats for those weapons, locked behind rng walls isn't content. Having something wholesome and fleshed out that takes time to progress through, but doesn't require you to repeats it many, many multiple times to maybe acquire something you want is content.

The story missions are content as they add to the game's lore in a meaningful way. Adding new game modes and mechanics is content. If you take a look at liches and Empyrean but remove the rng grind, what's left? An over hyped mini boss with new kill animations and archwing with a ship. All that took the best part of 3 years to create and there's people praising you like you've changed their whole life with these updates.

If Warframe keeps doing this - hyping things for years and not delivering - the player numbers will keep dropping, DE will become more greedy because their income is lowered and the vicious cycle of making this game closer to a mobile game grind fest will continue. I think it was Steve who mentioned that Warframe lives on hype for the next update, but you've repeatedly not lived up to the hype you set yourselves and it's showing so badly. Numbers don't lie and Warframe's numbers are at an all time low for a new update. I wonder why.

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Pretty sure no one asked for what DE has been doing lately with itemization layers.

See for the first time DE has a defined Vision for the direction of Warfr.... Hah. I can't even finish that.

Sad thing is even when DE does add content they don't seem to know how to make that content last without their grind walls, daily caps or layers upon layers on RNG and then once the player has finally acquired said bait they have little reason to continue playing that content nor interest. Always an uphill walk with with development.

Funny you mention mobile games though. I made that comparison myself not too long ago.

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Listen, I don't know if MultiDynamic is the one forcing you to make these terrible decisions; but something needs to be done ASAP.

You got in trouble a couple of years ago for the exact same reason as today.

DE Steve, my man, seriously? Putting a New War key quest behind RNG?

Now that's a new level of "GrindFrame" I wasn't expecting. You seriously need to put your stuff together or else, this game won't last 6 more years.

I thought you were going in the right direction when such amount of needed reworks arrived.

Melee buffs and rework, bow buffs, forgotten frames brought back to life, balancing of overpowered mods, archwing fixed (in a way).

So much stuff that it's being shadowed by this terrible stuff you just did right this week.

You're a abusing the patience of your loyal community, you think the "White Knights" of Warframe will be always with you.

Truth is, even a lot of the so called "white knights" are becoming mad at you, and that should be a really clear sign for you as a company whose ONLY IP is Warframe.

Do you even understand that if you kill Warframe, you don't have any other IP's to use right? If you kill Warframe, Digital Extremes as a company is over too.

And all this is without including the terrible reward amounts RailJack gives.

4.000 credits or just mere 15 poor postrils, while the cost for repairing and crafting is insane. You should know better already, you have 6 years of experience in this.

Think about it, speak with your higher ranks.

Consider using third party developers to help you release content in a short-mid time spawn or to at least fix unbalanced/unfair/absurd grinding and bugs. 

Fix your most important column or else the whole house will collapse.

Edited by (XB1)KnightSlayer411
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19 minutes ago, (XB1)MetroViper527 said:

Having story quests locked behind rng walls isn't content.

This part was just bad communication. With today's patch, you can now see where the quest is by some kind of flashing thing on the starchart

As for everything else, DE doesn't use RNG to appease their white knights. DE uses RNG to keep us busy. DE needed Liches to keep us busy for a month, so they ramped up the RNG to make sure that actually happened

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It certainly doesnt help that every mission is the same exterminate skirmish. All 26 nodes are the exact same and even the sub mission are pretty much the same between each other. The RNG wall would be far more bearable (I dont want to call it good in any way) if A: the balancing for our damage and enemy damage wasnt so messed up and B: it wouldnt be the same mission over and over again.

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il y a 2 minutes, TARINunit9 a dit :

DE uses RNG to keep us busy. DE needed Liches to keep us busy for a month, so they ramped up the RNG to make sure that actually happened

The only place where DE has managed to keep us busy because of Lich has been in this forum.

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OP and fellow Tenno who are tired/angered/etc with DE’s recent decisions to double down on RNG loot-box like mechanics.  Take the advise of the players who said to leave or play something else, and vote with your wallet.  DE knows players are upset with the loot box RNG death machine of Kuva lichs but said in their devstream they will not change the system. Then they tied the loot box system to Railjack parts.  If uninstalling the Gabe keto far I understand, but I implore you don’t spend any money.  If they chose to ignore us when we’re unhappy with a decision, fine.  We just won’t spend our money until they address our concerns and implement the changes that have been provided in many feedback threads to make the game rewarding.   

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38 minutes ago, Awazx said:

The only place where DE has managed to keep us busy because of Lich has been in this forum.

Kept me plenty busy.  But then, mercy killing thralls was something of a pleasure for me, to the point I wish the parazon had a mod that would put all enemies that procced into the downed state for a few seconds so I could revel in those executions in other modes.  I imagine for others they more enjoy running void fissures, or arbitrations, or sorties, or whatever.

And if they don't find any of the content fun in Warframe well... why are they playing again?

Edited by Lost_Cartographer
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Just now, Lost_Cartographer said:

And if they don't find any of the content fun in Warframe well... why are they playing again?

Because they've invested who knows how many hours into a game they've grown to love over many years. Warframe has always had grind, but there was usually at least some reward to balance it. Recently they've been abandoning what little redeeming qualities they have, with scummy pay-to-skip options and making 90% of new updates the same, boring, repetitive process.

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10 hours ago, (PS4)Nyamiche said:

OP and fellow Tenno who are tired/angered/etc with DE’s recent decisions to double down on RNG loot-box like mechanics.  Take the advise of the players who said to leave or play something else, and vote with your wallet. 

 

Double up on this one.
I haven't been playing much or done any new content and haven't bought any Tennogen in a year.

People unable to restrain themselves and vote with their wallet is why companies like EA are still around. Sorry that's not a fair comparison at all but you get my point. Most gaming companies will try to get away with whatever you let them. It's money, who doesn't want more? That's normal but as a consumer we're the ones holding the cards in the end. Esp in the gaming industry where there's no monopoly (yet).

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1°: DE please for the love of God, listen to the community and the dedicated players, for once at least. There is a ton of good feedback and ideas that you guys could use here on the forums or just talking to content creators that are dedicated players, as ask again, Listen to them. please.

2° : DE needs to make a "minimum RNG requirement".

lets use the new ephemera as an example, its on an rng place/quest (now with marker on where it is, so its better) but on a 3 HOUR timer, that you can only do ONCE every 3 hours because the mission is long( if you have a good railjack maybe you can try 2 times) and THEN you have RNG to get a Rare Cache to have an RNG to ge the Ephemera.....MY GOD. there is at least 3 layers of absurdly disapointing RNG on this.

there must be a way to get something in a garanteed way! make it into a List, kill X of that and you are garanteed to get that. i dont care about how much i have to kill or farm to get, it is an objective tied to gameplay/effort, not just oh "there is a % of you to get no matter how good you are".

I remember when you guys at DE said that ALL the next ephemeras would be TIED TO ACTIVE PLAY AND REAL EFFORT and not RNG anymore... so? i kindly ask you guys, have you changed your mind? please go back to that plan DE. 

same thing goes to the new sentient arm-cannon, there is a 4% chance to get a part of it, why not make a minimum kill requirement for that enemie so that is a garanteed drop after X time, TIED TO THAT PLAYER ONLY, so other players cannot get it because that would be unfair. they have to earn it after all. but again, RNG? not cool DE.
 
here is a personal story about RNG that i have, i spend 2 YEARS trying to get the WAR. after 2 years of trying i gave up and just bought the pack, the NEXT damn stalker that i killed dropped the war.... i cant explain how i felt after that, for real.

 

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I agree that something needs to be done about the RNG in Warframe. I'm not bothered about the pay to skip deals like 835 plat to avoid grinding the mods required to finally kill a Kuva Lich because there will always be people who will want those for whatever excuse they have for not wanting to actually play the game and do it themselves.

But, not everyone is one of those people. I want to play the content, but when that content is constantly locking you out of something because of a random die roll it stops being fun. I've been helping a clannie with their second Lich, their second, not their 10th or 50th the 2nd. They're grinding for Requiem IV relics and after 2 days of grinding all the siphons, all the floods not one of them has dropped. 

This is from something that supposedly has a 25% chance of dropping? I'm calling b**ls**t.

2 days, 2 whole days 2 sessions of 6 hours, 12 hours total and not one Requiem IV? Exactly how is this possible unless the drops chance is being artificially manipulated against the player?

Other people including myself have asked for the RNG to be lessened, with actual gameplay leading to the unlocking of the mods required instead of a roll of the dice, but no, not even an answer from any member of DE staff. It's like they're scared to answer their customers.

Kuva Liches were covered on the last Dev Stream, and what did they have to say? Apparently the over riding opinion on the forums is that people are angry that it doesn't take 79 days to kill a lich like it showed in the reveal?

NO! Digital Extremes NO! Get your head out of the clouds, I've searched the forums and I cannot find a single complaint that it's taking too long to kill a lich, all I see is people complaining about the grind and the RNG, mostly the RNG, but fixing that isn't going to put more money in your pocket is it?

Other things are bothering me as well, like the removal of Dirac dropping from fighters in Empyrion, the Dirac packs in the Market place not selling well enough DE is that it?

A mission that seems to be storyline critical that appears in a Railjack mission by RNG? We need favourable RNG to be able to play New War is that it? Will there be something we can buy for plat in the market to avoid that like there seems to be to avoid every other piece of content you've released recently?

I don't know what's happened to you as a company this past year Digital Extremes, but I'm guessing that I'm not the only one who is far far from impressed by it.

 

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12 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

They're grinding for Requiem IV relics and after 2 days of grinding all the siphons, all the floods not one of them has dropped. 

This is from something that supposedly has a 25% chance of dropping? I'm calling b**ls**t.

2 days, 2 whole days 2 sessions of 6 hours, 12 hours total and not one Requiem IV? Exactly how is this possible unless the drops chance is being artificially manipulated against the player?

RNG will do this sort of thing occasionally; you could google something like "random distribution clustering", if you want in-depth explanations.

I have farmed lots of Requiem Relics, and the drop rates for me haven't been significantly skewed.

But it's not such a problem; open the Relics you do have, hop on Trade chat and post "WTT my [Vome] for your [Khra]". I've swapped plenty of Requiem Mods like that, and I rarely have to post even twice to get it sorted. There seem to be lots of players looking to make swaps.

(I've not been Refining the Requiem Relics either; I've been pubbing the T5 fissures Intact, grabbing Mods when they drop -- failing that Riven Slivers, failing that, Kuva... -- I don't think this way is slower for getting the Requiem Mods than farming other Fissures for Traces to Refine the Requiems, and it means I'm gaining Traces from the T5 Fissures to Refine the regular Relics for faster Prime farming/moar Ducat grofit. This is just my take on it, YMMV. 🙂)

12 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

Kuva Liches were covered on the last Dev Stream, and what did they have to say? Apparently the over riding opinion on the forums is that people are angry that it doesn't take 79 days to kill a lich like it showed in the reveal?

Yeah, that was kinda weird. 😕

There's been lots of feedback on these forums about the Liches, though what strikes me is that there's tons of people who have a gripe about one or other aspect of the system, but there isn't really one unifying point of objection.

The devs did act fairly quickly on some things: the fix to drive the Lich away without stabbing was good; the present Valence Transfer system is good for some players but not so much for me; the "next weapon won't be the same as last" was no kind of fix for the problem it was responding to and probably represents a decision made in too much of a hurry.

So I get that the devs mightn't want to publicly commit to any specific changes until they're sure which aspects they'll be deciding to tweak, and how.

But [DE]Steve's response on the DevStream seemed rather out of touch with the zeitgeist from what I've seen, and looked uncomfortably like a deflection.

12 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

all I see is people complaining about the grind and the RNG, mostly the RNG, but fixing that isn't going to put more money in your pocket is it?

Warframe has always been full of grind and RNG. My concern is how the RNG is affecting not just the drops and resource amounts, but now also the stats of the gear we actually use in the missions.

That's not just "a bit more RNG", it's a fundmental change to how the RNG affects a player's experience of farming. It's put a major crimp in how I felt about acquiring the Kuva weapons.

Right now I'm one Link away from being able to craft the Aksomati Prime, and I'm dead excited about getting my hands on the beautiful new dakka! But if it were that the weapons once crafted would have RNG stats, I wouldn't be feeling this anticipation. I'd just be wondering how disappointed I'll be when I see what I've got.

I for one hope strongly that this swing towards RNG stats doesn't spread through the game.

Edited by OmegaVoid
Punctuation. I am punctilious.
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