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Let’s put this “Warframe is pay to win” thing to rest

(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK

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(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK

(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK

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Pay-to-Win

Implies that you have to Pay real money to get ahead or an advantage over other players who don't spend real money

Is a real currency purchase advantage that cannot be earned via in game. This advantage applies to the purchaser, and gives the purchaser an advantage in ultimate outcome in the state of play with other players.

IE: In the case of a PVP(Player vs player) game, this would be like buying a 5.00$  weapon that does way more damage than any other weapon in the game and the only way you could get the weapon was by buying it with a real currency. And since it is a PVP game, your advantage is over the other players who do not have that weapon, since you would have a competitive advantage against other players in the game because your weapon does more damage than their free weapons could ever do.

Warframe is primarily a PVE (player vs enemy) game with small playerbase in PVP. But keep reading. 

Warframe does not offer anything that is ONLY purchasable WITH REAL MONEY that gives any players any advantage vs other players. Every item in game except PA accessories armor and visual attachments can be earned via playing and farming missions for the item and or trading for platinum to buy items and boosters from the Warframe market.

Paying for platinum (that CAN be earned and traded for) to buy a weapon, frame, booster etc that CAN be earned in game is NOT pay-to-win

Using platinum to skip a wait is not pay-to-win

Paying for MR locked weapons and/or frames (when you do not meet the MR requirements) through PA is not pay-to-win because they CAN be earned and farmed in game.

You can see it as an advantage in a sense, but you are not winning, because those performance items can be earned through just playing. They're not specific to real currency only transactions.

EVERYONE can EARN plat to buy any of the advantages/boosters/weapons/frames etc from the Warframe market (except cosmetic PA, but those again are not an advantage).

NO ONE can BUY an advantage on Warframe with real money that is not available outside of spending real world money.

 

Thus Warframe CANNOT be considered a Pay to Win game. Everything outside of certain cosmetic items (that do not affect performance) can be earned by playing, just as everyone else can.

 

Edit: My mind has been changed. I believe WF is a form of P2W. Disregard my previous posts as they were from my own ignorance. 

Edited by (XB1)AMONGTHEWEAK
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-JT-_-R3W1ND

-JT-_-R3W1ND

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6 minutes ago, (XB1)AMONGTHEWEAK said:

EVERYONE can EARN plat to buy any of the advantages/boosters/weapons/frames etc from the Warframe market (except cosmetic PA, but those again are not an advantage).

And, there you get this FREE TO GET plat?

I got only 50 and it's untradable.

 

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SteelOverseer666

SteelOverseer666

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Thats like uh.... Your opinion man. It all is based on what you consider "winning".

In MY opinion winning in warframe is achieving the goal that you have set for yourself. In warframe you can pay money to reach those goals instantly. In my opinion that is pay to win.

Ive played railjack for about 15 hours now and I dont even have enough resources to build a single MK3 part.

I can either keep grinding for the next month and maybe "win" (achieve me goal of having a MK3 fitted ship) OR

I can grind for prime parts for a few days to trade for platinum (that someone else paid real money for) OR

I can spend 21.99 Myself to be able to build every MK3 Part today and "win" instantly.

The only instances where people get to their goals in a reasonable time frame are those in witch DE makes a profit.

Literally Paying to Win.

 

Edited by SteelOverseer666
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Aldain

Aldain

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The most pay to win thing they've put in imo is the new repair drones, if only because unlike just Rushing something in a foundry, you don't need the resources in the first place.

Even then that is more of a "Pay to not play" than "Pay to win", but "Pay to not play" is still worse than the usual "Pay to Skip wait times" that we've had for a long time.

Overall I just think that the Repair Drones are going to cause issues of people rushing through the content so fast that everything goes dead really quick.

Edit: I retract this statement, the drones seem to drop rarely lategame so they are not plat exclusive skip methods.

Edited by Aldain
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(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK

(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK

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21 minutes ago, -JT-_-R3W1ND said:

And, there you get this FREE TO GET plat?

I got only 50 and it's untradable.

 

Only free plat is from give aways and that plat is not tradable. You earn the plat by trading items to other players, items that you farmed for/earned. Thus you earned the plat. Yes players have to buy the plat for it to be floating around in the tradable plat economy. In the reference of earning plat for completing certain mission objectives or achievements, no. No built-in game rewards exist. If all platinum was not tradable this would be a different conversation on pay to win. 

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(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK

(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK

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29 minutes ago, SteelOverseer666 said:

Thats like uh.... Your opinion man. It all is based on what you consider "winning".

In MY opinion winning in warframe is achieving the goal that you have set for yourself. In warframe you can pay money to reach those goals instantly. In my opinion that is pay to win.

Ive played railjack for about 15 hours now and I dont even have enough resources to build a single MK3 part.

I can either keep grinding for the next month and maybe "win" (achieve me goal of having a MK3 fitted ship) OR

I can grind for prime parts for a few days to trade for platinum (that someone else paid real money for) OR

I can spend 21.99 Myself to be able to build every MK3 Part today and "win" instantly.

The only instances where people get to their goals fast are those in witch DE makes a profit.

Literally Paying to Win.

 

I'm glad you're winning against your own goals. That's great. Could you have achieved that goal if you did not spend real money or even trade for the plat? Yes. Would it have taken longer? Yes. I never said it was not pay to skip. In terms of pay to win, its the advantage over other players that other players could not get in game on their own means with putting aside real currency. 

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Lord-Childeric

Lord-Childeric

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il y a 39 minutes, Aldain a dit :

The most pay to win thing they've put in imo is the new repair drones, if only because unlike just Rushing something in a foundry, you don't need the resources in the first place.

Even then that is more of a "Pay to not play" than "Pay to win", but "Pay to not play" is still worse than the usual "Pay to Skip wait times" that we've had for a long time.

Overall I just think that the Repair Drones are going to cause issues of people rushing through the content so fast that everything goes dead really quick.

LMFAO and buying a weapon directly in the market with plat is not exactly the same thing huh ?! (*cough" Hema *cough")

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(NSW)Quarky

(NSW)Quarky

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3 minutes ago, Lord-Childeric said:

LMFAO and buying a weapon directly in the market with plat is not exactly the same thing huh ?! (*cough" Hema *cough")

No, it's not because the Hema is available in ways other than through the market with plat. OP's example is of a weapon that strictly cannot be purchased without real currency ($$$) and is objectively better than other weapons available with in-game currency.

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Lord-Childeric

Lord-Childeric

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il y a 1 minute, (NSW)Quarky a dit :

No, it's not because the Hema is available in ways other than through the market with plat. OP's example is of a weapon that strictly cannot be purchased without real currency ($$$) and is objectively better than other weapons available with in-game currency.

Let me explain myself, first of all, repair drones are droppable in rare containers in stations on veil proxima missions, secondly, repair drones are excatly like a ticket pass to buy a component for your railjack, but for it to be 'platinum buyable' you have to drop it first. It's like buying a weapon in the market, prove me I'm wrong. 

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DrivaMain

DrivaMain

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Compared to Pay to Win mobile games, Warframe is far from that. Those games are much much worse like Ridiculous cost and construction time (millions of resources and 60+ days construction time? LMAO). It’s rare for games to allow you to earn their premium currency without spending money.

If you want to see what a pay to win game looks like. Play Clash of Clans, Lords Mobile, and Clash Royale

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(NSW)Quarky

(NSW)Quarky

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Just now, Lord-Childeric said:

Let me explain myself, first of all, repair drones are droppable in rare containers in stations on veil proxima missions, secondly, repair drones are excatly like a ticket pass to buy a component for your railjack, but for it to be 'platinum buyable' you have to drop it first. It's like buying a weapon in the market, prove me I'm wrong. 

Nah, you're right. I didn't properly follow the quote chain. Repair drone and Hema are similar situations. Repair done and OP's PvP game weapon example are not similar which is not what you were addressing.

You should remove that stick from your ass, though. It seems painful.

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Aldain

Aldain

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2 minutes ago, Lord-Childeric said:

first of all, repair drones are droppable in rare containers in stations on veil proxima missions

I have not heard of this.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd like a source just for clarity's sake.

If that is true then maybe the drones aren't as bad as I had thought.

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SteelOverseer666

SteelOverseer666

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42 minutes ago, (XB1)AMONGTHEWEAK said:

I'm glad you're winning against your own goals. That's great. Could you have achieved that goal if you did not spend real money or even trade for the plat? Yes. Would it have taken longer? Yes. I never said it was not pay to skip. In terms of pay to win, its the advantage over other players that other players could not get in game on their own means with putting aside real currency. 


You are judging a PVE game in the context of a PVP game.

Of course its not Pay to Win if your definition of pay to win is one derived from PVP games.

But in the context of Warframe when someone says "Pay to Win" what they mean is "pay to skip".

People are unhappy with the "pay to skip" or "pay to win" or whatever you decide to call it and feel that DE should stick to cosmetics to get their profits.

And I feel that's completely reasonable. There is a reason mobile games are mocked so unanimously for their monetization methods. People feel they are underhanded and manipulative.

EDIT: Clarification


 

Edited by SteelOverseer666
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Lord-Childeric

Lord-Childeric

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il y a 1 minute, (NSW)Quarky a dit :

You should remove that stick from your ass, though. It seems painful.

Im not mad, it's just that I run to a lot of people saying repair drones are killing warframe blahblah like its not been years we can skip ressource cost and waiting with platinum in one go (frames & weapons). Sorry if you felt aggressed, might not use the best words to convey my minds since english is not my native langage.

 

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(NSW)Quarky

(NSW)Quarky

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1 minute ago, Lord-Childeric said:

Im not mad, it's just that I run to a lot of people saying repair drones are killing warframe blahblah like its not been years we can skip ressource cost and waiting with platinum in one go (frames & weapons). Sorry if you felt aggressed, might not use the best words to convey my minds since english is not my native langage.

 

Yeah, I'm right there with you. Warframe is seriously benign in today's landscape and I just can't comprehend people exploding about how it's p2w. Have they never played a gacha...? The world may never know. Thank you for acknowledging, I appreciate that. I never would have guessed English wasn't your first language, btw.

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Lord-Childeric

Lord-Childeric

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il y a 15 minutes, Aldain a dit :

I have not heard of this.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd like a source just for clarity's sake.

If that is true then maybe the drones aren't as bad as I had thought.

Check on warframe reddit, been confirmed 5 days ago. Pretty rare though, might be at the same % than umbra forma

Edit : Typo

Edited by Lord-Childeric
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DeathDweller

DeathDweller

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1 There's a difference in p2w and paywall and you describe a paywall.P2w is considered anything that gives you an advantage in game(not necessary against a player and not only pvp) there for anything that isn't pure cosmetic is an advantage in game(pay to skip, pay to rush, pay to whatever, boosters, weapons, frames, resources, slots).

2 There's pvp in the game as well so if 2 players just started the game, try conclave and 1 of them bought some prime access(which btw costs more than a full AAA game) for example and got than new prime weapon then he would have an advantage against the other player.But let me guess because conclave sucks and DE don't know how to make a proper pvp mode we dismiss the whole thing like it doesn't exist

3 Most free to play games are like WF which by itself got it's f2p system and ideas from other games (Drakensang for example)and those games still are called p2w.Games that were true not p2w were games like Nosgoth which only had cosmetic purchases and the only games that have paywalls nowdays are those generated in and for the asian market.

4 And this is very important!:The catch with WF is that platinum trades mascarades the whole p2w thing.There's no way to earn pl by any means other than bying it.Sure you can trade it after but if none buys and everyone spends what they have the market collapses.So maybe you have not to buy it but others do it for you and the rest of us and it's mandatory to continue doing it

And that's how games that have premnium currency which can be "earned" in game or bought to skip that part are called p2w but WF pretends to stay in the grey zone.

Edited by DeathDweller
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Aldain

Aldain

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2 minutes ago, Lord-Childeric said:

Check on warframe reddit, been confirmed 5 days ago. Pretty rare though, might be at the same % that umbra forma

Just checked and saw it, honestly I'm surprised DE is fine with letting 50 plat go, but I retract my previous statement about the drones, if they aren't plat exclusive (even if they are rare as balls) then it is the same time/money investment as always...except for the Hema which can go die in a fire.

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DrakoKnight48

DrakoKnight48

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1 hour ago, SteelOverseer666 said:

Thats like uh.... Your opinion man. It all is based on what you consider "winning".

In MY opinion winning in warframe is achieving the goal that you have set for yourself. In warframe you can pay money to reach those goals instantly. In my opinion that is pay to win.

Ive played railjack for about 15 hours now and I dont even have enough resources to build a single MK3 part.

I can either keep grinding for the next month and maybe "win" (achieve me goal of having a MK3 fitted ship) OR

I can grind for prime parts for a few days to trade for platinum (that someone else paid real money for) OR

I can spend 21.99 Myself to be able to build every MK3 Part today and "win" instantly.

The only instances where people get to their goals in a reasonable time frame are those in witch DE makes a profit.

Literally Paying to Win.

 

Pay to win, pay to skip. These two concepts can be applied to this game. 

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