Apply Vauban's Level Scale Mechanic Elsewhere?

[Zandermanith222]

It's not perfect and it certainly doesn't do much about the enemy armor meta, but I've had a lot of fun with Vauban's Flechette Mines and Orbital Strikes and how they can reasonably keep up in damage as enemy levels rise. I'm thinking about if it could be applied to other abilities that currently sport a static flat damage without any bells and whistles to effectively increase it. Stuff like Shock, Spectral Scream, Ice Wave, Rumblers, literally every Archwing ability that deals damage, stuff like that!

I don't think this change would break any new ground in terms of power, but it'd certainly make those otherwise negligible abilities a little more viable in common use.

Edited December 20, 2019 by Zandermanith222

[Birdframe_Prime]

Honestly... I would rather fix the base terrible enemy scaling and power creep that's being put into the game constantly because of it.

But, until that happens, basic combination-based ability scaling could actually work. I mean, let's take a look at how it actually scales to deal competent damage:

Spoiler

Total damage = 300 Puncture x (1 + Ability Strength) x (1 + Passive boost amount) x (1 + Overdriver Bonus (also affected by Strength)) x Enemy Level Multiplier.

Meaning with just 130% Power Strength with an Intensify, enemies at level 50 and all conditions active you have this:

300 x 1.3 x 1.25 x 1.325 x 5 = 3229.7 Damage.

Considering the average level 50 Grineer enemies have under that for the basic melee, double or triple that for the basic ranged enemies, and around 20x that for the basic heavies, but also that you get a 50% damage bonus for the Puncture type against Ferrite armour, too... That's debatable scaling, but hey, it contributes.

Let's up the ante on that Strength though, give him something like a double-Umbral build and a Power Drift to bring him up to 170% Strength.

That increases the damage to 4542 per shot, which is one-shot range for any charger enemy at level 50, two shot for armoured ranged enemies (due to Puncture bonus upping that damage to 6813 damage), and only around ten shots if you've got a Heavy Gunner in there.

Ooh, but what if you actually hit 200% Strength?

That's 5625, which is fairly hefty for an orb that fires about four times a second...

So while it will never be a room-nuke, not without bonuses applied from other frames, or armour strippi-iii.... oh wait, Bastille has 10% per second armour stripping, which on that 200% Strength option is increased to 20%, so in five seconds you've completely stripped armour, making Flechette orb incredibly good for scaling consistently with the abilities...

Eh, here's the thing. It's not so much that Flechette Orb has a level-based scaling that makes it viable, it's the combination of Vauban's abilities and passive that makes it so.

Any frame that can effectively strip armour has a much better scaling overall than another frame. Look at the new Ember, has a total armour strip function that she can strategically use on a wide area of effect and Heat damage is effective against all fleshy types, and so her damage lasts much, much longer against the enemy than it did before.

So what other frames would actually benefit from increasing damage due to enemy level, or would need armour strip to stay relevant...

Spoiler

Ash: Nope, has bleed damage on everything, scales really well with invisibility and his armour-stripping augment.
Atlas: Has his wide area petrify which is a default 50% damage scaling against those enemies, easily combo'd into his only actual damage ability and the synergy fuels his passive healing/armour gain. I would say no, especially with how much damage he deals in combinations.
Banshee: Actually yeah, she would on something like Sound Quake, but the alternative is to actually rework Banshee for massive quality-of-life updates, because even if you think she's great and performs well, every frame can be better and giving Banshee more options isn't a bad thing.
Baruuk: Only has one damage dealer and that needs looking at anyway.
Chroma: Yeesh no, massive weapon damage buffs anyway.
Equinox: Bypasses that whole concept.
Excal: Maybe yes, but also has enough of a blind/melee combo going on and high damage anyway.
Frost: Yeah, I'll go with this one. His 4 strips armour, but the damage never increases so it's pure wide-area CC and temporary reduction at higher level, not bad, but could be better, and Ice Wave could definitely use that kind of buff.
Gara: Scales without either.
Garuda: Scales without either.
Gauss: Has armour strip and self-buffing to do the job anyway.
Grendel: Literally eats his enemies as long as he has energy, but already has enemy level-based scaling damage on his 3.
Harrow: Has no ability damage to scale, scales damage output from weapons separately and in a scaling fashion already.
Hildryn: Not a very damaging frame to begin with, but could use the scaling on her Haven and Aegis Storm to scale that 200-400 damage per second up based on enemy level.
Hydroid: Has armour stripping and wide area control, plus literal invulnerability while dealing scaling damage to enemies he captures.
Inaros: Again, not made for damage, probably could use the scaling on his 3 though.
Ivara: Her 4 is literally one of the most damaging single-target abilities in game, more so when you use Prowl and the Augment for radial damage on head shots. 
Khora: Scales massively past armour anyway. Maybe for those not using her scaling, Strangledome could have a minor armour strip, but it doesn't need it.
Limbo: Why in any kind of world would Limbo need either damage or armour strip?
Loki: Similarly no, why would he?
Mag: Personal nuke bubbles to take care of anything. Maybe needs more survivability in places where you're moving and not casting, her 3 could use better armour strip rather than numbers based...
Mesa: Uh... not likely.
Mirage: Chroma-like boosts, and unless they want to add armour strip to her 2 instead of its current effects... not really.
Nekros: Much like a few others, not really a damage frame.
Nezha: Team damage buffs that scales well anyway, plus wide area CC and the new Heat procs give him plenty of damage and scaling.
Nidus: Scales already.
Nova: Deals technically the highest base DPS in the game if used right, but doesn't need to most of the time.
Nyx: Has armour/shield strip already and wide area CC stuns, plus an invulnerability function.
Oberon: Situational armour strip could become just part of his base ability, help it scale better... So, sure, armour strip, but he's not really for damage.
Octavia: This is the one 'hahahahahaha... no' I'm putting in here.
Revanent: Needs work, but doesn't really need the scaling.
Rhino: Self buffing, wide area CC, huge survivability... doesn't need that kind of buff.
Saryn: Has armour strip, CC, damage buffing too.
Titania: Considering her 4 has some of the highest damage ability weapons in the game along with Mesa and Ivara, no, but she needs work beyond this concept anyway.
Trinity: Not a damage frame, has armour stripping augment and helps others scale instead.
Valkyr: Invulnerable and self buffing. If we got armour reduction, temporary or permanent, on enemies with her 3 that could be cool.
Volt: Self scaling, massive area CC and damage... Not really necessary.
Wisp: Combo abilities to deal some insane damage if necessary, but not really a damage frame as such.
Wukong: Self scaling, massive self sustain, can literally provide a full second set of DPS on his 1... not really necessary.
Zephyr: While I'd love to get a huge buff to her, like consistent armour strip on her 2 or 4, she needs more of a rework than that.

So out of the 42 current Warframes, there are only about 7 that don't have these functions and could benefit from it.

Of those 7, 2 need more of a rework than that, so 5?

I mean, I guess that this would be a good function to add to them, but in a few the armour strip is technically the more important aspect. Of ones that could benefit from actual enemy level based scaling instead of base armour strip...

Rather than that, let's have a look at those frames and just say 'which abilities of those 7 would just work better with enemy level scaling?'

Banshee's 4, definitely. Even with a rework so that it could hit 'weak points' generated by her 2, making it deal a lot more damage, the scaling would work.

Excal's 3, that would keep it relevant, combo well with Blind and so on.

Frost's 4, definitely would benefit from having damage dealt after the freeze reduces their armour values.

Hildryn, absolutely would benefit with damage scaling on her 3 and 4.

Inaros, I see no problem with a damage buff to his 3, even though it's mostly a CC.

Oberon, his 4 would definitely benefit, but would also benefit from the armour stripping not being based on whether Hallowed Ground is there.

Zephyr, I'd put it on her 2 and her 4, but at the same time a rework to those abilities would be a better option.

tl;dr?

It's a nice idea, but overwhelmingly Warframes don't really need it. A rework or a change to some of their mechanics would do the same, if not better, than this idea.

But there are a few cases where I would definitely use it.

Edited December 21, 2019 by Birdframe_Prime
Grammar

[schilds]

If you're going to scale up abilities with scaling up enemies, why are you bothering to scale things up in the first place? 😛

[ShortCat]

On 2019-12-20 at 6:02 AM, Zandermanith222 said:

I've had a lot of fun with Vauban's Flechette Mines and Orbital Strikes and how they can reasonably keep up in damage as enemy levels rise.

If something scales with levels and maintains its relative power, then what is the point of increasing levels in the first place?

[keikogi]

22 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

If something scales with levels and maintains its relative power, then what is the point of increasing levels in the first place?

Bigger numbers , people love big numbers.

[ShortCat]

4 minutes ago, keikogi said:

Bigger numbers , people love big numbers.

So a placebo for idiots who chase meaningless UI numbers? I for once, love functioning gamepaly and game mechanics.

[keikogi]

1 hour ago, ShortCat said:

So a placebo for idiots who chase meaningless UI numbers? I for once, love functioning gamepaly and game mechanics.

Meaninless numbers can only happen in games where the UI lies, also know as Anthem. 

If a skill does 20 damage on 100 hp enemy and 40 damage to a enemy with 200 hp. It is not a meaninless number it is just pointless scaling in the enemy.

Having your damage scale with enemy level is just a bandaid for the core issue of weapons get a 100 times increse in dps from mods while powers get up to 3.5 times damage from mods.

Also players love big numbers so much that warframe and enemy damage is incredibly assimetrical , even dought the game would be way easyer to balance if these were somewhat simetrical.