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Nekros In Need Of Tweaks


Mad5cout
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Been trying out my shiney new Nekros and have felt relatively disappointed thus far.  This seems to be like another Banshee - it does a mixed bag of skills that weakly do things other frames do much much better.

 

Soul Punch - like a crappy Mag's Pull.  This operates basically like Mag' Pull except it pins an enemy instead of pulls/ragdolls them.  The problem is, you made soul punch like Mag's pull before it was buffed - and buffed for good reason.  This thing needs to do a small AOE effect that pins a small number of enemies at once.  Lining up one enemy to make the current pin effect worth it is not very viable except with infested or certain confined hallways.  The radius could be smaller than Pull because the corpses will hit things behind it.  This would make it a nice balanced skill like a cross between Pull and Sonic Boom.

 

Terrify - This is serviceable given the low energy cost.  We can't expect it to be as good as Snow Globe or Bastille.  I like it.

 

Desecrate - This would be worth it if it didn't have poor interactions with high level weapons.  Any time you have a death animation that makes a corpse disappear (like acrid's disintegrate effect or even things like dismemberment from flux or lanka, etc.), then this skill no longer works.  Thus, it's effectiveness is reduced for players who have spent the time to farm exceptional weapons.  What might be better here is for the ability to place an effect on enemies still alive (that is indicated by a halo effect of some sort) that lasts X seconds.  If the enemy is killed within that time period, they drop extra loot.  This would eliminate the above problem.

 

Shadows of the Dead - I so wanted to love this skill and I am sure others have already posted on this but I will echo the sentiments.  Rather than enumerate the issues, let me just point out that Shadows basically comes off like a really crappy Nyx's Chaos that costs more energy to use and doesn't do as good of a job because it creates 5 mobs instead of making every mob in the area kill each other.

 

I hate to compare this to other games and I know DEs probably hate it too, but this is how other games have dealt with necromancer mechanics and I think would work better than the current system:

 

1.  The skill resurrects ONE enemy to fight for you per cast.

2.  The Shadow stays alive until it's health is depleted.

3.  The leveling of the skill determines the maximum number of mobs you can resurrect.  In other words, you can cast this multiple times and eventually develop a squad of them as long as your Shadows don't get killed.

4.  The mob you resurrect should do full damage - the same as the mob you killed (does not seem to be the case now).

5.  Focus would increase the damage of the mob.  Continuity or Constitution would increase its life.

6.  Soul Punch or Desecrate would heal all or one of your Shadows.

 

+1 if you like the suggestions.  That seems to be the best way to get the DEs attention.

 

Thanks.

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I know how to use it properly.  It requires a corpse to be present to work.  If you use something like an Acrid, the corpses disappear as you go.  So, you could constantly casting this as you are killing mobs (ridiculous), but at any given moment there are only about 2-3 viable corpses this can be used on because it has to be cast at that magic moment where they are no longer in a death animation but there is still a corpse being read by the game - IE it turns into a waste of energy.  This issue probably also exists with things like ice damage shatter.

 

I am reading on the wiki that some people have experienced that dismembered enemies are read as two separate corpses which is interesting.  I have not experienced that yet and perhaps it depends on how they were cut in half - maybe they have to be serrated at the torso.  I have not noticed a dismembered limb by itself produce loot.

 

Perhaps you should seek understanding prior to commenting negatively next time.

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Soul Punch - like a crappy Mag's Pull.  This operates basically like Mag' Pull except it pins an enemy instead of pulls/ragdolls them.  The problem is, you made soul punch like Mag's pull before it was buffed - and buffed for good reason.  This thing needs to do a small AOE effect that pins a small number of enemies at once.  Lining up one enemy to make the current pin effect worth it is not very viable except with infested or certain confined hallways.  The radius could be smaller than Pull because the corpses will hit things behind it.  This would make it a nice balanced skill like a cross between Pull and Sonic Boom.

 

Terrify - This is serviceable given the low energy cost.  We can't expect it to be as good as Snow Globe or Bastille.  I like it.

 

Desecrate - This would be worth it if it didn't have poor interactions with high level weapons.  Any time you have a death animation that makes a corpse disappear (like acrid's disintegrate effect or even things like dismemberment from flux or lanka, etc.), then this skill no longer works.  Thus, it's effectiveness is reduced for players who have spent the time to farm exceptional weapons.  What might be better here is for the ability to place an effect on enemies still alive (that is indicated by a halo effect of some sort) that lasts X seconds.  If the enemy is killed within that time period, they drop extra loot.  This would eliminate the above problem.

 

1+.... for SotD i like your suggestions, but if i can respawn this multiple times... that's no will be really good.. because i can spawn and spawn too many monster.. i think you can add a limit to 2 cast for "SotD" only if you have maxed the mod.

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Learn to use Desecrate properly, then complain about it.

 

Desecrate must go, DE promised if there would be enough negative feedback they would give us the life-siphon. Also, Nekros is the weakest frame in terms of utility, offense and defense at the time, no matter how many corpses you desecrate or how many shadows you summon, he will never reach the effectivity of a Trinity, Nyx or Rhino.

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Desecrate must go, DE promised if there would be enough negative feedback they would give us the life-siphon. Also, Nekros is the weakest frame in terms of utility, offense and defense at the time, no matter how many corpses you desecrate or how many shadows you summon, he will never reach the effectivity of a Trinity, Nyx or Rhino.

+1 :) "DE promised if there would be enough negative feedback they would give us the life-siphon"... what?

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With Desecrate, I'm very welcome to some changes to it. However, with your change, "desecrate" no longer describes the ability very well. If you can come up with an appropriate name for it, sure.

 

As for Shadows of the Dead... it's a little lackluster right now. Sure, it's fine for lower levels, but when you reach more difficult stages, you'll have a harder time even summoning your minions.

 

1.  The skill resurrects ONE enemy to fight for you per cast.

2.  The Shadow stays alive until it's health is depleted.

3.  The leveling of the skill determines the maximum number of mobs you can resurrect.  In other words, you can cast this multiple times and eventually develop a squad of them as long as your Shadows don't get killed.

4.  The mob you resurrect should do full damage - the same as the mob you killed (does not seem to be the case now).

5.  Focus would increase the damage of the mob.  Continuity or Constitution would increase its life.

6.  Soul Punch or Desecrate would heal all or one of your Shadows.

 

1. Not sure why you're lowering the amount summoned...

2. Okay.

3. Sure.

4. Yup.

5. This sounds like a great addition.

6. As much as I'd like this, it doesn't make much sense. Soul Punch and Desecrate both have their own uses, and "healing" isn't one of them.

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+1 :) "DE promised if there would be enough negative feedback they would give us the life-siphon"... what?

 

Well, they implied it, look up to the official Nekros ability discussion, also they said in a livestream that they didnt take life siphon and are excited what the players have to say. Also, its just common sense that there should be no extra-loot button for a frame, Nekros' ultimate is completely dependent on kills, and Nekros is one of the worst killers on his own, he needs either damage or utility, at the moment he has none of both.

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1+.... for SotD i like your suggestions, but if i can respawn this multiple times... that's no will be really good.. because i can spawn and spawn too many monster.. i think you can add a limit to 2 cast for "SotD" only if you have maxed the mod.

If you read the whole comment the mod level would determine the maximum amount of Shadows you could have at any given time.

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With Desecrate, I'm very welcome to some changes to it. However, with your change, "desecrate" no longer describes the ability very well. If you can come up with an appropriate name for it, sure.

 

As for Shadows of the Dead... it's a little lackluster right now. Sure, it's fine for lower levels, but when you reach more difficult stages, you'll have a harder time even summoning your minions.

 

 

1. Not sure why you're lowering the amount summoned...

2. Okay.

3. Sure.

4. Yup.

5. This sounds like a great addition.

6. As much as I'd like this, it doesn't make much sense. Soul Punch and Desecrate both have their own uses, and "healing" isn't one of them.

 

Basically it would make soul punch or desecrate into something like shield polarize where it has the opposite effect when used on a friendly target.  However, now that someone has mentioned it being replaced with life siphon, you could just lift desecrate out all together and just make it a "heal minion" spell.  I dunno.  That is less important than the other issue.

 

The reason I am lowering the amount would be to build up your Shadows over time.  This is how it functions in a lot of other games and I think it is a good system for making necros not ridiculously OPed.

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Shadows of the Dead is amazing, it levels up with the monsters, and doesn't get worse as your team kills off the enemy like Chaos does.

 

I say leave it, and just make the AI better.

 If by levels up you mean that the Shadows get slightly better but are never actually good enough to kill anything in the level you are in, then yes. 

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My main problem with Shadows is that they block shots. If I could kill them like Nyx' Chaos, it's the first thing I'd do, given how useless they are. They disrupt gameplay worse than old Vortex did. My second problem is that sometimes the game decides not to apply the Shadow effect.

 

What his ultimate really needs to do is just summon ONE tanky (maybe unique) creature instead of copies of dead enemies; more enemies killed = longer duration and more HP. I wouldn't mind not being able to shoot through it, in that case.

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You know, when you think about it, isn't Well of Life too "necrmancer"-ish for Trinity, in a way? More to this later...

 

To the OP:

 

Soul Punch - I agreed. Simply making it blast in an AoE around the target you cast it on would be more than enough. That's really all it needs.

 

Terrify - Cheap and cheap, it costs 75 energy... But yeah, i agreed, it doesn't really need much more to it. Maybe a bigger AoE for it though?

 

Shadows of the Dead - Hmm, i don't think i agreed with all your suggestions on this one, as i would tweak it in a different way:

1) The Shadows can be passed through and shot through by allies. That would instantly fix most of its issues really

2) That the targets deal full damage (and that their damage is boosted by Focus) is great and i fully agreed. I'd add that Focus could also increase their health-values.

3) Continuity / Constitution could remain as duration-increasers.

4) What could Stretch do though? Could this be the mod that increases the amount of Shadows summoned perhaps?

5) Instead of letting your Soul Punch / Desecrate directly let you heal your Shadows, here is another idea:

 

As I said at first, Trinity's well of life seems too "necromancy" to me. So what i would do is:

 

Trinity's well of life becomes some form of object that you place in the environment (Similar to how you place Loki's Decoy) that pulsates health (and shields if health is full) every second or so for X duration in X range etc etc.

 

Nekros' Desecrate then sort of borrows the well of life mechanics a bit, but in a different way

* When cast, Desecrate causes a form of aoe-effect (in an AoE around you or casted in a cone, doesn't matter imo)

* Any enemy hit by the Desecrate effect are staggered and gets tagged by the spell to become "drainable", similar to the old Well of Life, but with more balanced numbers of course so you don't become immortal while attacking or something like that. It could also have a potential target-cap if that would be needed for balancing.

* Suddenly, this would synergize more with Shadows of the Dead too, as then they could heal themselves by attacking the "desecrated" enemies! And, in a way, you get a form of life-siphon too, that so many people seem to want for Nekros :) It also gives your allies a more in-combat type of healing support (compared to the current Desecrate which requires your allies to run around more to collect potentially spawned health orbs, which can distract allies away from the fight)

 

Now how about those suggestions? :)

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There's nothing crazy about casting desecrate while killing mobs.  It pops up so many health orbs as to functionally be a combat heal in addition to a loot generator, and that's something you want to use while fighting. 
 

Even as a straight out healing it's better then a life drain would be, simply because unused health orbs stick around to be used later. 

 

An alteration to allow it to work on creatures in elemental death animations wouldn't hurt, but I don't believe it's strictly necessary.  I wouldn't recommend using a buffed up Ignis, Acrid or Torid if you plan to desecrate a lot, but it works pretty well with the Flux, Soma, and most bullet based weapons.  I don't think having an interplay between powers and weapons like that is a bad thing.

 

Either way, I really like desecrate as is, and I don't want to see it changed.  The fact that it generates extra loot is a huge bonus to his support abilities - and it means he actually gets used quite a bit.  I don't see too many Trinities around, and I do not want Nekros changed to be more like her.

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