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AFK & Railjack and also Newbies in RJ .. What?!


Joe_Barbarian
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1 minute ago, Uhkretor said:

... Can't do crap if we have no money, right? So, we go around it and avoid it...

... For someone that can also apply metaphors, you sure came up with a crappy one that can be easily justified with the lack of money... Mine was hardly as creative as yours, but had a better effect at explaining exactly what happened... You, however, are so frustrated that you've missed the part where I said

... But no, right now you're just trying to victimize yourself using this situation as an excuse while disregarding any kind of solution and doing everything you can to remain in a state of self-victimization... But I'm not surprised, considering the section where this thread was created.

This is an Online game. As an Online game, like any other, you have leechers, dumbf***s, morons, idiots, lazy f***s and anything else you can think of. But among all those, there are people that actually give a sliver of a damn about it and suggest possible solutions to any given problem. Your insistence in victimizing yourself doesn't make you any better than the rest of all the bad apples that you've identified ever so brightly during your Railjack Public endeavor.

Like I've said sarcastically already if we ignore the problem then there is no problem

Why are you putting so much effort into changing the subject? First you are picking apart a metaphor ... which looks pretty sad honestly. Now you are presuming I'm playing a victim. I've not once mentioned or even hinted at how hard done by I was, just why it's so socially acceptable. Did I ever state that I was unable to complete any mission before of leechers? Did I ever state that it made it harder? Did I say anything that would constitute as victimising myself? 

I'll wait for whatever you can come up with.

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Lets see...

7 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Why are you putting so much effort into changing the subject?

I'm not. You are.

7 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

First you are picking apart a metaphor ... which looks pretty sad honestly.

Mine or yours?

7 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Now you are presuming I'm playing a victim.

As your reactions to everything everyone said are showing.

7 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

I've not once mentioned or even hinted at how hard done by I was

No one pointed out otherwise.

7 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

just why it's so socially acceptable.

Humanity.

7 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Did I ever state that I was unable to complete any mission before of leechers?

Don't change the subject... again.

7 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Did I ever state that it made it harder?

And here's another attempt at changing the subject... again. Seriously?

7 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Did I say anything that would constitute as victimising myself?

In case you've missed it, you can check the answer 6 quotes ago.

7 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

I'll wait for whatever you can come up with.

And you can keep waiting. No one's here to entertain you.

 

Now, when you're done venting gas into environment, get your ass back in your Railjack so I can leech you too.

Edited by Uhkretor
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Yo, you guys need to slow down

Last month: Play Solo (Liches)

This month: Play Squad (Railjack)

Now if we follow the pattern...

Next month: Only play in premade squads or clans and dont bother trying to pub in this very pubable mission.

Next month after that: Play with your family only.

We need to restore the order here people!

12 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

-----

This wont solve the issue persay, but be sure to report these tin suits for afking, if you can make a video, do that too. Try to maintain yourself open to convo, if they say something like "sorry something popped up" disregard them even if they may be lying. 

Ive done my fair share of afk reporting. And even if they pull the hurr durr no pub thing on my face, Ill just spit out the fact that "If Im being a obedient tenno that respects the rules of the game, why do they go scott free?" "What's stopping me from AFKing in pubs then?"

If anything what makes me want to pub more is that I wanna meet new people and experience situations without planning and on the fly

 The least thing I want is to have a drone so dead inside that it makes the demo Moas on display on Legs' Shop in Fortuna have more life in them in comparison.

Edited by Nezha_Rose
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6 hours ago, Aldain said:

...Make a squad and you'll find this issue magically disappears since there are no random players.

Recruit chat solves this issue for literally every other instance it occurs.

Seriously, run with clanmates, find a premade, join a discord, just do something other than complain in general discussion that newbies and afk's are ruining 1 out of 10 runs.

Public matchmaking is the biggest RNG in a game filled with RNG, and even the slightest bit of effort can remove it.

Using chat to form a group doesn't guarantee no one is going to afk through the mission, or most of it while doing the bare minimum. Recruiting through chat is just as RNG as public matchmaking and the only way to have consistent runs is by getting a static group, which takes more than a slight effort. Warframe isn't a co-op heavy game to justify wasting time looking through Discords/Forums, since the game doesn't make it easy, to find people with the same/similar play schedules.

It's not as if the solution to people leeching is even that complicated. DE just needs a proper report system that logs activity so people can report those who leech without having to waste their time submitting screenshots throughout the mission, or always recording their game play, and then logging into the site to submit a ticket. The issue is people know they can get away with going afk because it's unlikely they'll be punished for it unless someone who happens to take the time to report them is in the mission. This isn't any different than how back in the day when playing LoL being told to go kill yourself was a fairly common thing that even Riot acknowledged, but the moment moderation kicked in, especially after the automated systems went up, the occurrence of that type of behavior went down drastically to the point there's more complaints of game play trolling as opposed to verbal abuse; due to the automated system not being effective at anything beyond the flat out afk/rage quits.

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Thee leech and the AFK, have always been present in this game, there is no way to punish this kind of behavior. There is no kick system that allows a player to take the game, but that people will also use it to use it to troll other people, not even DE is interested in punishing these people with the most toxic behavior. I have already denounced more than 1000 people of what I have been playing in the game, but not even DE is dedicated to punishing these people, and I have to continue playing with them. And that is why, by not having fun with these people. In the end it has ruined my experience as a player and of course others too. And that forces you to play alone. Already more than 3 years playing all alone.

Here the problem is as follows: There are no restrictions. In the absence of it, anyone can get in, and how they get into the latest content without even having the right equipment, because they leave all the work to the other people who are in the same group, while he does nothing. You can have a coffee, watch YouTube videos, anything else, except be in the Warframe during a mission, and there is the leech. 
When there are other people who want to be on the mission contributing something to the team

It is not normal, to give an example: in the WoW, you are looking for a dungeon of lvl 80, and you get a level 1 person. Do you think that person is going to contribute something to the team? What do you think he will do?

Basically, he won't do anything. While the other people, carry you even without your consent and more in public.

Even knowing that they don't want you at the party, but since there is no kick system, they have 2 options. 1 Leave the group, and in the statistics it leaves you as an abandonment. And sign up again in public or 2nd carry the person.

Well here, in Warframe 3/4 of the same thing happens.

And now do not say "look for people in recruitment", because to know how much time you are going to waste looking for people in recruitment that may be between 20 minutes - 1 hour. And not all, we have so much time to play. Because there are people who work and leisure time is somewhat low, and they also have to do other things.

 

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5 minutes ago, Proffebolter said:

Thee leech and the AFK, have always been present in this game, there is no way to punish this kind of behavior. There is no kick system that allows a player to take the game, but that people will also use it to use it to troll other people, not even DE is interested in punishing these people with the most toxic behavior. I have already denounced more than 1000 people of what I have been playing in the game, but not even DE is dedicated to punishing these people, and I have to continue playing with them. And that is why, by not having fun with these people. In the end it has ruined my experience as a player and of course others too. And that forces you to play alone. Already more than 3 years playing all alone.

Here the problem is as follows: There are no restrictions. In the absence of it, anyone can get in, and how they get into the latest content without even having the right equipment, because they leave all the work to the other people who are in the same group, while he does nothing. You can have a coffee, watch YouTube videos, anything else, except be in the Warframe during a mission, and there is the leech. 
When there are other people who want to be on the mission contributing something to the team

It is not normal, to give an example: in the WoW, you are looking for a dungeon of lvl 80, and you get a level 1 person. Do you think that person is going to contribute something to the team? What do you think he will do?

Basically, he won't do anything. While the other people, carry you even without your consent and more in public.

Even knowing that they don't want you at the party, but since there is no kick system, they have 2 options. 1 Leave the group, and in the statistics it leaves you as an abandonment. And sign up again in public or 2nd carry the person.

Well here, in Warframe 3/4 of the same thing happens.

And now do not say "look for people in recruitment", because to know how much time you are going to waste looking for people in recruitment that may be between 20 minutes - 1 hour. And not all, we have so much time to play. Because there are people who work and leisure time is somewhat low, and they also have to do other things.

 

Well there was that post the other day that 2 people were really upset they both got given temp bans (I think they were 1 week bans) They claim they weren't AFK'ing but their attitude about it made it obvious. So DE does take action, sometimes. The issue is we lack the tools to combat this in game. A simple system I've seen used in other games.
Report Player AFK - Tracks activity of said player, if activity falls below a certain threshold within 60 seconds they are removed. Now activity could be anything. Movement, Damage, Ability Use etc; Then we can have 1 of 2 types of escalating suspensions depending on how often they do it.
1) Suspended from the game.
2) Suspended from Public games. 

Right now there is no system except screenshot the person in question, open a ticket on an already strained support team. 

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13 hours ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Why is it that some people find it perfectly acceptable to just do nothing on a Railjack, either standing on top of the slingshot or just sitting in a gunnery seat licking the window.

Now I won't say most of my matches or even a lot are occupied with such scumbags but when you have 3 different leeching turd eaters in back to back missions it kind of puts you off.

Next up is why is Railjack so accessible to everyone, one of the face dragging leechers I had has less than 40 hours in the game at MR 5 (Before anyone thinks I'm riding this guy too hard he was literally standing still holding the Omni on top of the slingshot for 10 minutes not responding to anyone). What I don't get is why does places like Fortuna has such a harsh gateway to "content" but Railjack lets any snowflake on for the ride.

this is why, i made a post on having a kick option available.. because its reallly annoying. 😕

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48 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Well there was that post the other day that 2 people were really upset they both got given temp bans (I think they were 1 week bans) They claim they weren't AFK'ing but their attitude about it made it obvious. So DE does take action, sometimes. The issue is we lack the tools to combat this in game. A simple system I've seen used in other games.
Report Player AFK - Tracks activity of said player, if activity falls below a certain threshold within 60 seconds they are removed. Now activity could be anything. Movement, Damage, Ability Use etc; Then we can have 1 of 2 types of escalating suspensions depending on how often they do it.
1) Suspended from the game.
2) Suspended from Public games. 

Right now there is no system except screenshot the person in question, open a ticket on an already strained support team. 

Because that's better for everyone.

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12 hours ago, Anduvriel said:

There are definetely afkers, but also fathers with children needing attention, kids that are called by their moms, managers that get an important call from work etc.

I've never found those excuses viable.

1. Others shouldnt suffer for the poor life choice of someone else. If you know you have irratic little runts running around or a sick kid in bed you shouldnt sit down to play while waiting for the inevitable, atleast not in a mode or game that actually takes time to complete. Go run the 5 minute survivals or defenses where it doesnt really matter if you drop or not.

2. Kids shouldnt be playing the game to begin with. And if the kid is old enough to actually play, they should have a parent that also understand the words "soon mom/dad" and respect their kids spare time. Or are people OK with a parent barging in on a sports match demanding to talk to their kid? It is the same here, recreational activity/hobby that should be respected.

3. A manager should have the balls to say "this is my free time, work is for tomorrow!", or atleast give whoever calls the cold shoulder treatment and call them up when they are done with their activity.

It is one thing if it is a fast distraction that takes a matter of seconds or a minute, but when you get into the area where parents need to pamper their runt for 10-15 minutes or the kid needs to go shove his face full with dinner or the important call drags out, that is the point where you respect the others and simply leave the mission and your rewards. That is what normal people do. That is what I do myself if an unexpected emergency pops up. Sad part is that people sit down and waste the time of others while knowing there will be an emergency even before they join the group.

 

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Want a squad worth more than infested drool? Use Friends or Clannies.

Want a chance at a decent squad? Use Recruitment to pre-form a squad.

Want to run it all yourself with maybe some help? Run Public.

If you expect Public formed squads to EVER be worth a damn, you need to shut off the internet. Trolls/Leeches/AFKers are always going to be here and in every other multiplayer game in existence. Just like whining little snowflakes. Unfortunately, DE can't prevent humans from being douchebags. That coding doesn't exist yet, though we are all still hoping.

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48 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

Want a squad worth more than infested drool? Use Friends or Clannies.

Want a chance at a decent squad? Use Recruitment to pre-form a squad.

Want to run it all yourself with maybe some help? Run Public.

If you expect Public formed squads to EVER be worth a damn, you need to shut off the internet. Trolls/Leeches/AFKers are always going to be here and in every other multiplayer game in existence. Just like whining little snowflakes. Unfortunately, DE can't prevent humans from being douchebags. That coding doesn't exist yet, though we are all still hoping.

I totally agree with that statement.

However, there is a problem, why are we not given any tools to help combat this, methods already exist in other games to help tackle people being douchebag but DE haven't implemented anything. As of right now you can't report people in game for this kind of behaviour the only way is to screenshot it and to make a support ticket.

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3 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

I totally agree with that statement.

However, there is a problem, why are we not given any tools to help combat this, methods already exist in other games to help tackle people being douchebag but DE haven't implemented anything. As of right now you can't report people in game for this kind of behaviour the only way is to screenshot it and to make a support ticket.

You HAVE been given the tools. Clans to get together like minded people. Friends Lists to expand on that with those already in other Clans. Recruitment channel. Ignore List to not have to deal with the douchbags a second time if you encounter them. Abort Mission option to get away from douchebags immediately.

A kick option is not going in, due to the abuse Trolls could use it for (ie, kicking you out of the mission, just cause...).

I agree, that an In-Game Report option would be nice, but given that DE Support is woefully understaffed, I don't think this would be a good thing right now. It would probably wind up being automated like the chat mod system, and would be more an abuse itself than any real help. I just Ignore and go on. After just a short time, you barely run into the douchebags anymore.

The tools are there. You just have to use them.

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2 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

You HAVE been given the tools. Clans to get together like minded people. Friends Lists to expand on that with those already in other Clans. Recruitment channel. Ignore List to not have to deal with the douchbags a second time if you encounter them. Abort Mission option to get away from douchebags immediately.

A kick option is not going in, due to the abuse Trolls could use it for (ie, kicking you out of the mission, just cause...).

I agree, that an In-Game Report option would be nice, but given that DE Support is woefully understaffed, I don't think this would be a good thing right now. It would probably wind up being automated like the chat mod system, and would be more an abuse itself than any real help. I just Ignore and go on. After just a short time, you barely run into the douchebags anymore.

The tools are there. You just have to use them.

Clans // Friends list // Recruitment channel aren't tools to combat S#&$ty people. Any game that has squads // parties // groups has to have those features for a community to thrive. They were never introduced as tools to combat AFK'ers & Leechers, even if you do see them that way, they don't do anything to stop // prevent or discourage players from that kind of behaviour.

Ignore list doesn't do anything for public groupings, they've never stopped someone joining a group if the host or any of the members have them on their block list.

A vote kick system is not and never will be a way to tackle douchebags as it's obvious to anyone with half a brain that it'll get abused to hell. (You are also the first to mention a vote kick system in this thread btw)

The only "tool" we have is submitting tickets to a woefully understaffed support team. 

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9 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Clans // Friends list // Recruitment channel aren't tools to combat S#&$ty people. Any game that has squads // parties // groups has to have those features for a community to thrive. They were never introduced as tools to combat AFK'ers & Leechers, even if you do see them that way, they don't do anything to stop // prevent or discourage players from that kind of behaviour.

Ignore list doesn't do anything for public groupings, they've never stopped someone joining a group if the host or any of the members have them on their block list.

A vote kick system is not and never will be a way to tackle douchebags as it's obvious to anyone with half a brain that it'll get abused to hell. (You are also the first to mention a vote kick system in this thread btw)

The only "tool" we have is submitting tickets to a woefully understaffed support team. 

First, I only mentioned the kick system as a BAD idea to put it on the back burner. Not to advocate it.

Second; Then what the heck do you want? Just In-Game reporting? As I mentioned that would be handled by Support, which you agree is understaffed. Give an idea, not just a cry to "Do something!!!". Since you say what we have are not "tools", just what do you want DE to do about it?

There's already a system in place for AFKing, though easy to get around. Neither AFKing or Leeching are technically "cheating" so DE can't really punish players for it. It's bad behavior, but so is a lot of things players can do.

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My question is, why do you have people who, in matchmaking, decide that your job is doing this, without ever mentioning it. I had this mr20+ dude (So it was bound to be toxic from the get go obviously) who decided I was "Engi". He never addressed me as anything else. Since I didn't know I was engi during the entire mission, he just kept complaining and telling me to do stuff with random keywords like "Munitions" and such. Which means nothing if you don't have a railjack yourself or has used whatever ship component there's being referred to. It'd be easier for the people you complain about to do what you want if DE had any way for people to figure out what there is to do.

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47 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

First, I only mentioned the kick system as a BAD idea to put it on the back burner. Not to advocate it.

Second; Then what the heck do you want? Just In-Game reporting? As I mentioned that would be handled by Support, which you agree is understaffed. Give an idea, not just a cry to "Do something!!!". Since you say what we have are not "tools", just what do you want DE to do about it?

There's already a system in place for AFKing, though easy to get around. Neither AFKing or Leeching are technically "cheating" so DE can't really punish players for it. It's bad behavior, but so is a lot of things players can do.

I did put an idea forward. 3 hours ago and it's not some super new concept that has never been used before.

3 hours ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Well there was that post the other day that 2 people were really upset they both got given temp bans (I think they were 1 week bans) They claim they weren't AFK'ing but their attitude about it made it obvious. So DE does take action, sometimes. The issue is we lack the tools to combat this in game. A simple system I've seen used in other games.
Report Player AFK - Tracks activity of said player, if activity falls below a certain threshold within 60 seconds they are removed. Now activity could be anything. Movement, Damage, Ability Use etc; Then we can have 1 of 2 types of escalating suspensions depending on how often they do it.
1) Suspended from the game.
2) Suspended from Public games. 

Right now there is no system except screenshot the person in question, open a ticket on an already strained support team. 

On top of that people do get suspended for repeatedly AFK'ing and Leeching. Hell it has it own dedicated report category.

12 minutes ago, Zalanthe said:

My question is, why do you have people who, in matchmaking, decide that your job is doing this, without ever mentioning it. I had this mr20+ dude (So it was bound to be toxic from the get go obviously) who decided I was "Engi". He never addressed me as anything else. Since I didn't know I was engi during the entire mission, he just kept complaining and telling me to do stuff with random keywords like "Munitions" and such. Which means nothing if you don't have a railjack yourself or has used whatever ship component there's being referred to. It'd be easier for the people you complain about to do what you want if DE had any way for people to figure out what there is to do.

Myself and others already mentioned in this thread that people that don't know what they are doing and people that are clearly AFK'ing // Leeching are two separate types of people. What you've described is a newbee, someone that has no clue what the hell to do and still actively learning. That is different from someone intentionally doing nothing, please don't confuse the 2

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22 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

I did put an idea forward. 3 hours ago and it's not some super new concept that has never been used before.

On top of that people do get suspended for repeatedly AFK'ing and Leeching. Hell it has it own dedicated report category.

The current AFK system (yes there IS one in place) removes rewards from those that AFK for that mission. DE doesn't remove them from the current mission since missions are not on DE Servers, but on a Hosting system (the downsides to this system aside). Also, removing an AFK player physically from a mission would not help anyway, since other players can not join after a mission reaches a certain point. Usually this point would be AFTER where you would notice someone is AFKing.

Therefore, your "idea" is the same thing already in place, and gains nothing.

As a side, I would imagine that if a player is tagged as AFK to not receive rewards, that player is also logged to DE's servers as such, and repeated offenses looked into (eventually). This is just a theory on my part, but would make sense. That we would not be told of this, or aware of it, also makes sense, as DE has a strict policy of not discussing punishment of players publicly.

Which leads us back to reporting AFK/Leech and moving on.

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Vote kick option would be awesome. I see the potential for abuse though, so may not be a good idea.

 

I feel like DE is aware of the issue and something will be done about it. RJ is going to go through many changes. All we can do right now as players is raise our concerns and report any issues as we come across them.

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I've been pretty lucky so far with crews and when I take my own ship out we run the mission and I ask if they want to scavenge resources or dry dock as options on the end of a mission...Everyone has been pretty good about it so far..but I know if I run into a AFK I'm plunging the ship straight into failure...because screw that guy/...I can always restart over with another crew...

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The problem is you do not actually want a hard gate on crewing railjack.  Hell I am not even MR7 and have done several RJ missions,  Still useful for turrets and using the magical hull patching fire hose.   Though I have never PUG'd a ship yet,  Always go with people I know.  But if DE put say a hard MR15 gate on even crewing than I would not longer be able to go with the folks I know from a discord channel.

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48 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

The current AFK system (yes there IS one in place) removes rewards from those that AFK for that mission. DE doesn't remove them from the current mission since missions are not on DE Servers, but on a Hosting system (the downsides to this system aside). Also, removing an AFK player physically from a mission would not help anyway, since other players can not join after a mission reaches a certain point. Usually this point would be AFTER where you would notice someone is AFKing.

Therefore, your "idea" is the same thing already in place, and gains nothing.

As a side, I would imagine that if a player is tagged as AFK to not receive rewards, that player is also logged to DE's servers as such, and repeated offenses looked into (eventually). This is just a theory on my part, but would make sense. That we would not be told of this, or aware of it, also makes sense, as DE has a strict policy of not discussing punishment of players publicly.

Which leads us back to reporting AFK/Leech and moving on.

How does that lead us back to just report and move on? My original question is why do some people find it socially acceptable. Which you are giving an amazing example of my question. So far you've said there are systems in place to deal with this issue, well there isn't really anything in place except for submitting a ticket which we've already agreed that it's a strain on support.

So lets break this down real simple:
- Current (and only) way to report people increases the load of support tickets.
- There is No // 0 // Zero / Zilch // Nada way to deal with an AFK / Leeching member within the game.
- The current AFK system is after 60 seconds that member stops receiving any group benefits and no longer collects loot. However you can trick the system by moving no more than 5 meters to disable the system.

The above 3 statements is what people such as yourself have just accepted it and "moved on" but yet when someone questions the status quo you'll defend the flawed systems in place as "Just report and move on" or "that's what pre-mades are for" Which once again brings me back to the ultimate question that no one can seem to answer which is WHY?

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16 minutes ago, Filanwizard said:

The problem is you do not actually want a hard gate on crewing railjack.  Hell I am not even MR7 and have done several RJ missions,  Still useful for turrets and using the magical hull patching fire hose.   Though I have never PUG'd a ship yet,  Always go with people I know.  But if DE put say a hard MR15 gate on even crewing than I would not longer be able to go with the folks I know from a discord channel.

Eidolons = Anyone and their grandma who completed story quests can do them.
Fortuna Orb fights = Anyone who spent weeks to months farming standing cap can do them.
Railjack = Back to anyone and their grandma can do them as long as they have an Archwing.

I never stated a to impose a mastery lock. Just a gateway to prevent people that have 0 experience in the game to jump in and ruin it for others. Especially at how harsh it is to fly Archwing in these missions.

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Don't worry OP, you've got a good point. How bad that point is, is all up to people's personal interpretations and experiences, but the fact of the matter is that it's still a problem. A vote kick option, an easier way to report people, a better matchmaking, almost anything would work really. Right now the only tool we have is to go make support tickets on the warframe site, which not only takes more time, knowledge and effort from a player than should be needed, but also strains DE's support team. There are players for example, that have no clue that they can report people in this way, and simply have to bear with leechers and the likes.

Avoiding public matchmaking in its entirety is simply not a solution. It's ignoring the problem at hand and expecting people find it normal. Besides, there are people that much prefer playing in public matchmaking or in solo, not only because then we can get in a game quicker, but also because we don't have to interact socially. The only exception to this preference is stuff like this. But it's not like we're expecting perfect matchmaking with angelic teammates here.

Personally, I can deal either way. I am one of those people who prefers solo and public. I know how to report, and I do it whenever needed. Whenever someone AFK's, I report them, and then either leave early or accept the fact. But at the same time, I fully agree with OP in that it could be done better.

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