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Itsmez

2 Things this game really needs, and im surpised it still dont have

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22 minutes ago, Prostreet150 said:

I forgot to say this : you said that you can abuse the AFK. No you cannot, people got perma banned for being AFK in this game. Just report them. If you get vote kicked you have no idea who vote kicked you.

Do you really think theyre banning anyone for it? or do they just send automated response messages because their inbox is full of reports ? ūüėĄ

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Votekick is surely never going to happen, but option to kick players from LOBBY would be amazing. When you're doing fissure runs with 2 friends it gets really annoying to leave and re-send invites after every mission just because the pub decides to just sit here and chill.

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6 hours ago, Itsmez said:

you can just afk in any mission and giving hard time to others while they do all the work for you.

Which is why there are anti-afk catches built into the game.
While they're fairly lenient, making them less so might catch snipers by mistake.
Griefing players and afk are both report-able.

Here's how vote kick goes down:
Elitist and, "highly efficient," players use the mechanic properly and as intended to cull everyone who doesn't suit their needs, every game.
That sound good for a multiplayer platform based around personal choices?
"They brought an x, when the party clearly needed a y. That's their fault for being stupid in advance, lol."
Yeah, give that guy the steering wheel. Sounds like a really well thought out and practical feature.

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10 minutes ago, Kefirno said:

Votekick is surely never going to happen, but option to kick players from LOBBY would be amazing. When you're doing fissure runs with 2 friends it gets really annoying to leave and re-send invites after every mission just because the pub decides to just sit here and chill.

"Trinity? Nope. kick em. Oberon? Nope. Kick em. Limbo? Nope. Kick em. Frost? ehhh..... Nope, kick em."
"Why isn't matchmaking working?"

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5 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

It doesn't matter if we have a vote kick or not. There are S#&$ty ppl who will #*!% with ppl by exploiting the system and vote kick is just another tool to do that. It won't fix anything. Also ppl will start to kick out others from the squad because they dont like the frame that the 4th player brought as on. 

If anything we should get a proper match making. Mr 15 players getting put together Mr 10-20 players for example.

Mr means nothing however so that method of matchmaking would be severley flawled. If anything I personally  feel like they should take x missions completed by x missions failed(by mission m type) and missions quit to try to formula an equation around that. At least that way we have a system that punishes quitters and people would likely try to  stay and complete missions. Also thy could add a modifier for # of times reported for a certain action you can be investigated and if you are (afking griefing etc) after being found guilty you are place in matchmaking with only those people so it will kinda fix matchmaking and also possibly improve the experience for playersb

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Votekick is without a doubt worst idea. I have been playing 600 hrs. rarely I have seen or my self participated in afk-ing. that said, it is there. but in many a game modes, it doesnt really help much u know. Whereas Votekick not only surely be used to grief people- either it will be some big time 'elite' (read snob), or even unknowing noobs (with high MR even. and yes, that is possible) kicking players out. Warframe always boasted a very helpful community; I myself got help many time, in the start. Votekick will fustrate new players as well. 

 if you find afk-er in ESO say; just dont go to the next round. 

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6 hours ago, Itsmez said:

Second is manual host migration. Instead of having dedicated servers provided by the DE itself (in my opinion understandable since its free to play game) we have bunch of hosts hosting with really bad internet connections which sometimes makes the game unplayable. With manual host migration we could try to switch the host to someone else who is actually able to host the missions.

And before "But you can leave the mission before you do it", sometimes these problems doesnt show up at start, for excample someone might come to mission and first act like he is active, or someone might have unstable internet connection that at start might seem fine, but after that the hell gets loose. And i dont want to leave on middle of the mission because the reward system doesnt let me keep the rewards unless i complete the mission. One thing that could be good that we keep what we get even if we leave the mission.

 

 

In gameplay options you can set "Matchmaking ping limit" default is 300, you can set it lower so you should get in matchmaking with people with a better connection, thats doesn't solve the problem but it helps.

 

6 hours ago, Itsmez said:

First off is vote kick. But hold your pants with "But it can be abused", currently you can abuse the game even more without the option to kick, you can just afk in any mission and giving hard time to others while they do all the work for you. Too many people comes to railjack mission just to afk doing nothing, ive had missions with full squad where the pilot is only one doing something with me. Same with orb vallis/eidolon bounties, people come there to leech bounties while they mine/fish or even worse they come to eidolon hunt just to afk. Ive had full squads on eidolon hunts where only me and someone else was actually doing what we are supposed to do.

Either way you can abuse the system, but if we get the vote kick option atleast we can do something about it.

Well I played at games with vote kick and I can say that people abuse of it, if they just don't like you, (even with no reason) they'll kick you, especially if they are friends. I think that the only solution is a better report system, cause even the auto kik for afk sometimes is useless, some people use bot to don't get afk kik in mission.

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11 minutes ago, DovahKya said:

In gameplay options you can set "Matchmaking ping limit" default is 300, you can set it lower so you should get in matchmaking with people with a better connection, thats doesn't solve the problem but it helps.

 

Well I played at games with vote kik and I can say that people abuse of it, if they just don't like you, (even with no reason) they'll kik you, especially if they are friends. I think that the only solution is a better report system, cause even the auto kik for afk sometimes is useless, some people use bot to don't get afk kik in mission.

I didnt say people would not abuse it. But the people will abuse the current system anyways, it doesnt matter which vote kick or not, people will still abuse the system. But with vote kick we have an option to get rid of the abusers

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1 minute ago, Itsmez said:

I didnt say people would not abuse it. But the people will abuse the current system anyways, it doesnt matter which vote kick or not, people will still abuse the system. But with vote kick we have an option to get rid of the abusers

You are right, they abuse anyway but personally I prefer play with a member afk and even do all alone, instead to being kiked just before the extraction cause I'm in matchmaking with as**oles that kick me for no reason. I just speack for personal experience, and I think that this would be more frustrating, of course that's just my opinion.

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I would 100% be in favour of a votekick option, I've played far too many multiplayer games where NOT having a votekick option would have screwed myself and the rest of the players in the instance (except for the guy causing the problems), and far too few instances of said votekick actually being abused. This game already has a pretty nasty leeching problem. I feel that people are overblowing the negatives a bit too much, it does't happen as much as you'd think.

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4 hours ago, Itsmez said:

I didnt say people would not abuse it.

Good, 'cause they can abuse that every bit as easy as this current system, and it's Far more rewarding to do so.
"With 1 press of a button, I can tell someone they're worthless to me."

Maybe there should be a daily limit to know when people are abusing that..
Maybe like, 4, for instance. After 4 kicks of randoms to a party, you're maybe doing it for sport..
Even with that in place, at 20,000 active users on average in game,
each with 4 kicks a day (which would be needlessly restrictive, right?)
That's 80,000 chances per day, for players to be kicked out.
In multiplayer nodes that are already under-populated, and matchmaking that already is unreliable..
we add the potential for up to 80,000 more matches per day failing.


Currently, there's a work around, where people who are highly objective driven and particular can weed out the variables before the match.
Actually, several methods: Invite only, friend only, recruiting chat, recruiting in forums, clans, and finally leaving squad if somehow those all fail to work out.

If you're down for whatever, you get whatever in public. Good bad, whatever, it's public.
There are no promises. If you're having an off day, that doesn't need to be compounded by being shamed by other randoms.
By the accounts of many players, this game is super easy, poses no threats, and can be cheesed at a whim.
Not bringing your game face to every match is acceptable.. though things like playing shawzin in arbitration might get you reported, which is acceptable.

If you need strict policies in performance and loadouts, then that's planned before hand.

Say a player is desperate for resources, but doesn't want to play Nekros/Hydroid/Khora.
Why would they go to recruiting when they can just flip through players like a dating app?
...a mechanic which is well known to be used habitually, and is rewarding/empowering to do.
They wouldn't.

Currently, you run into an AFK player, set them to ignore, and never see them again.
Removing the worst players from your life is easier from both sides.
...and if you're looking to ignore players that cycle publics for the perfect match,
then you're going to have to remember their name, as it won't be present in Recent Matches.

If you're not playing meta with vote kick, you'd have to brute-force-attempt matchmaking every game.
That's gonna teach you either to conform or quit, and makes no sense in a game with so many interchangeable choices.

Perhaps there's a middle ground. ...Like how I mentioned dating apps:
What if players had a profile they could put up somewhere to describe their playstyle and performance?
You could search by relevant factors, send requests to invite/friend/clan/etc.
This reduces risk of finding players you can't jive with if that happens to you too often,
and does not detract from public being a random environment for random skill levels and kits.

People still get to be their own little Ceasar, banishing their version of fools and incompetents with a wave of their magic wand..
and everyone else in public still gets to enjoy the game. Sound like a compromise? Probably not, but worth a shot.

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12 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

It doesn't matter if we have a vote kick or not. There are S#&$ty ppl who will #*!% with ppl by exploiting the system and vote kick is just another tool to do that. It won't fix anything. Also ppl will start to kick out others from the squad because they dont like the frame that the 4th player brought as on. 

If anything we should get a proper match making. Mr 15 players getting put together Mr 10-20 players for example.

MR level has nothing to do with skill or how powerful any of your frames or weapons are

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1 minute ago, LarryYourWaiter said:

MR level has nothing to do with skill or how powerful any of your frames or weapons are

I'm pretty sure a mr 21 player has better weapons and frames or just more knowledge about the game than a mr 2 player.

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1 hour ago, JackHargreav said:

I'm pretty sure a mr 21 player has better weapons and frames or just more knowledge about the game than a mr 2 player.

But could be easily outdone by a experience MR5 player that knows what they are doing vs the mr 21 that in this example I'm assuming has gotten taxied to hydron and grinded through to mr 21 via affinity boosters.

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While a Vote Kick option seems nice in practice it will be used more against non-AFK players than the AFK ones.  However this is typically because it will be player driven.
As it stands we have an AFK detector (abet not the best, but there), so in theory it could automatically trigger a vote when it detects someone as AFK, needing a unanimous vote to actually kick the player (as you don't know if some players in the group were already ok with the AFK before you joined).

Ideally a vote kick should not be able to be initiated after a goal is complete also.

Keep in mind however that should you kick someone out of the group the game may already be locked out from allowing any other players to join as well (most commonly after the objective is complete part has been triggered).  So whatever the case you will always be left with fewer players anyway.

 

As to MR, just because a higher MR player has more/better gear doesn't mean they will be using it.

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Me as a MR 28 benefit comparing to the ideal MR of 16:

+ I have extra 8000 standings everyday which helps A LOT in the long run to buy relics, tradable items.

+ I have nearly 1500 void traces limit (I think), good for accumulation for opportunities, or when the new prime warframe is released. I got Ivara prime and her 2 weapons within a day, took me like 1200 void traces.

+ I have 56 available mod capacity (I think MR 16 have 32 slots available, idk) and my weapons could insert more mods just out right fit the capacity so I'm not really worry about lacking lots of necessary mods when training. Even less worried about those with available polarities.

And of course, all of the above benefits are meaningless when you are just online to do Sorties, Syndicate missions, or even NW, then just log off, within 1 hour. Or meaningless when you only care about META stuff or a small number of stuff you like. Nothing bad about these, it's just that you won't be there to fully enjoy the benefits.

.

And about the vote kick, I'm against it. My own experiences just tell me that the vote kick can do more harm then good. Even more harm if no control on kick voters. It is like you are giving a gun to someone else and tell him/her to shoot you whenever they feel like it. Someone else might be watching their action but they would still shoot you because they have reason ? If vote kick was implemented, I bet there would be lots of posts telling about Kick voters being the end-game bosses, no more PUB, blah blah.

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46 minutes ago, Loswaith said:

While a Vote Kick option seems nice in practice it will be used more against non-AFK players than the AFK ones.  However this is typically because it will be player driven.
As it stands we have an AFK detector (abet not the best, but there), so in theory it could automatically trigger a vote when it detects someone as AFK, needing a unanimous vote to actually kick the player (as you don't know if some players in the group were already ok with the AFK before you joined).

Ideally a vote kick should not be able to be initiated after a goal is complete also.

Keep in mind however that should you kick someone out of the group the game may already be locked out from allowing any other players to join as well (most commonly after the objective is complete part has been triggered).  So whatever the case you will always be left with fewer players anyway.

This is an absolutely reasonable compromise in my opinion.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

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9 hours ago, Sapphirya said:

I feel that people are overblowing the negatives a bit too much, it does't happen as much as you'd think.

That's exactly my opinion on leeching and AFK. way too overblown, doesn't happen as much as people would think.

From where I stand the whole issue seems like it's way more hype from a bunch of fuss buckets..
but each player's experiences are different and just as valid.

As was suggested above, a vote to kick when the game deems someone AFK, with unanimous vote, before objective completion.
A better recruiting by psychometrics and personal preference, that people can sort through to cultivate similar players.

Absolutely not just a willy-nilly kick.
That's going to result in, At the very least:
every bit as much trolling,
far more lost loot,
fickle matchmaking,
and personal resentment.

There's some common ground that can be developed. Let's shoot for that.

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15 hours ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

I'd entertain the notion of allowing the host to kick players, for a 10 plat fee. You want to kick someone, show us what it's worth to you. 

It's worth about 1 riven, for 100 kicks. Yikes.
Allowing players to pay to tell others they're worthless and inconvenient to them..
Heck, the people most able to do this would be the riven gougers.
Not saying that wouldn't ABSOLUTELY sell.
Completely certainly would.. and would be real scummy, too.
It was a funny thought for a moment, though.

A well timed kick after a rare mod pick up worth 40p..
Folks would pay to make new or broke players struggle.
That's not a circumstance that needs encouraging through development.
This could also be used to game the market:
Kick anyone else when a rare drops, then you're the only one who gets to sell it.
"And I wouldn't have to do that if they didn't charge me. ;P"

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16 hours ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Edit: I'd entertain the notion of allowing the host to kick players, for a 10 plat fee. You want to kick someone, show us what it's worth to you. 

You might not realize it, but that would give griefers even more incentive to be A******s.

Right now, all they get from it is someone being angry. But getting someone angry AND actually costing them money - it's like a christmas present.

Also, it raises the level of abuse people will take until they finally react. I see absolute no upside in that, except for those who want to cause grief.

 

[edit]Just to make sure - I realize I might be stating the obvious. But I keep hoping that there are indeed still people naive and good-natured enough not to immediately jump to the worst possible conclusions.

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6 hours ago, Diangelius said:

Me as a MR 28 benefit comparing to the ideal MR of 16:

+ I have extra 8000 standings everyday which helps A LOT in the long run to buy relics, tradable items.

+ I have nearly 1500 void traces limit (I think), good for accumulation for opportunities, or when the new prime warframe is released. I got Ivara prime and her 2 weapons within a day, took me like 1200 void traces.

+ I have 56 available mod capacity (I think MR 16 have 32 slots available, idk) and my weapons could insert more mods just out right fit the capacity so I'm not really worry about lacking lots of necessary mods when training. Even less worried about those with available polarities.

And of course, all of the above benefits are meaningless when you are just online to do Sorties, Syndicate missions, or even NW, then just log off, within 1 hour. Or meaningless when you only care about META stuff or a small number of stuff you like. Nothing bad about these, it's just that you won't be there to fully enjoy the benefits.

.

And about the vote kick, I'm against it. My own experiences just tell me that the vote kick can do more harm then good. Even more harm if no control on kick voters. It is like you are giving a gun to someone else and tell him/her to shoot you whenever they feel like it. Someone else might be watching their action but they would still shoot you because they have reason ? If vote kick was implemented, I bet there would be lots of posts telling about Kick voters being the end-game bosses, no more PUB, blah blah.

Me as a mr16.

Not having 8000 standings doesnt limitate me anyways, i dont really buy anything with it except i got my gaze. You can still get everything but youre just littlebit limited per day, i dont do standing stuff anymore anyways.

My 900 void trace limit is fine, when i fill it i just upgrade the relics i want, then i refill it. Irrelevant

you might have +56 mod capacitety, but my 32 is just fine i just have to forma 1 or 2 times more. I can use any mods i want if i want to.

For me the grind to mr28 seems pointless and i dont plan to get there. It will give you some quality of life but thats all. 

 

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some missions don't reward you for being AFK (me and a friend did a private defence but i had to go AFK and when i came back, it said no reward due to inactivity) so maybe DE should boost AFK consequences? e.g. no shared affinity after 10/15 seconds of inactivity? no rewards for players who are purposely too far away from objectives in bounties?

not perfect solutions but there's always the report system

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1, i'm not understanding how a vote kick can be abused if it required the 3 people besides the person being voted out to vote yes (unanimous decision)

2. vote kick SHOULD be in the game, and it should give the current mission progress rewards to the player kicked. ex.Survival of 20 minutes complete so far? give them all the end of round rewards and pickups they earned in the mission but remove them from the game so they don't earn anything more for free by leeching off you (if that has been identified as a problem to you). Just make this count as a forced solo extraction.

3. in csgo which i have played for 1k hours i've never seen the vote kick system be abused, it is only when the majority of the players vote yes to remove the person they deem to be the problem. For the most part if you initiate a vote kick on an afk player the vote will fail just because they want to give the 5minute afk more time to come back - and that is a competitive game, so how would teamwork be worse in this co-op game.

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7 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

A well timed kick after a rare mod pick up worth 40p..

See, that well-timed kick is something that plagued Destiny's raids with their fireteam-kick options. Booting people at key points to bring in friends to finish out, that kind of thing. Or just being casual $&*^s to new players or people you didn't know. 

I do acknowledge that Destiny had the difference that only one person - the fireteam leader - was needed to boot someone. And, at least, Destiny let you keep any loot you might have already found. Still, I don't think having a kick option is worth the opportunity for cruelty that it will most certainly inspire in some people. I've played for like probably 3,000 hours across two platforms, mostly pub, and have never seen a situation where I was like "we need to get rid of that player." 

If...and only if...the player received the rewards/materials collected up to the very moment the kick occurred, then perhaps (hmm...that might have the additional benefit of forcing DE to make host-migration reliable: they'd need to be recording rewards in a non-migration-vulnerable way in case of a votekick). 

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1 hour ago, mrhapps said:

i'm not understanding how a vote kick can be abused if it required the 3 people

So what happens in the scenario that 2 people think someone is a troll for playing off meta, and I disagree?
There will be 2 votes up ignored or declined the whole game, over and over. Both me and the, "troll player," get reported,
the others get even more disappointed in the game and player base, and no one gets what they want.

While a successful unanimous kick can be useful, a non unanimous kick breeds spite and tension. Another question is,
does the person see that someone's voting to kick them? Will the two players voting just keep voting over and over,
getting progressively angrier with me and them? Right now, the vote is out of our hands. We can report or ignore the
player to have the agency never to see them again. If you are given the agency in game to politic against a player for
whatever reason, people will want to exert that power as much as it suits them.. which to some, has no limit or threshold
in reason.

People wouldn't want me in game, not even because of my performance, but because I don't agree with what they might
vote kick for.. then they have 2 players they never want to see again.. and people get reported for not playing badly, but
for not perceiving another as badly as the others do. It continues to split and fracture parties, actively turn player against
player in an engaging and rewarding way, and encourage mob mentality instead of seeking understanding or patience.

Consider what happens when 2 people vote to kick at the beginning of the match, and that vote sits there chirping and
blinking away the whole time because folks aren't in unanimous agreement. ...No one is going to like that. No one.

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