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Itsmez

2 Things this game really needs, and im surpised it still dont have

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Instead of a vote-kick to deal with AFK'er, it would instead be better to have a much more sensible AFK timer (no movement, no ability used, no shots, no kills in X amount of time) that called up a vote-kick for inactivity in the squad. This wouldn't leave room for "I don't like your colors" kicks and would allow the other team members to confirm someone is AFK - and not just guarding a defense spot or a friend they are helping - to have them removed.

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19 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

So what happens in the scenario that 2 people think someone is a troll for playing off meta, and I disagree?
There will be 2 votes up ignored or declined the whole game, over and over. Both me and the, "troll player," get reported,
the others get even more disappointed in the game and player base, and no one gets what they want.

While a successful unanimous kick can be useful, a non unanimous kick breeds spite and tension. Another question is,
does the person see that someone's voting to kick them? Will the two players voting just keep voting over and over,
getting progressively angrier with me and them? Right now, the vote is out of our hands. We can report or ignore the
player to have the agency never to see them again. If you are given the agency in game to politic against a player for
whatever reason, people will want to exert that power as much as it suits them.. which to some, has no limit or threshold
in reason.

People wouldn't want me in game, not even because of my performance, but because I don't agree with what they might
vote kick for.. then they have 2 players they never want to see again.. and people get reported for not playing badly, but
for not perceiving another as badly as the others do. It continues to split and fracture parties, actively turn player against
player in an engaging and rewarding way, and encourage mob mentality instead of seeking understanding or patience.

Consider what happens when 2 people vote to kick at the beginning of the match, and that vote sits there chirping and
blinking away the whole time because folks aren't in unanimous agreement. ...No one is going to like that. No one.

a non-unanimous kick results in nothing happening (the same as what is happening now where we just have to deal with it or leave ourselves). People do infact start votes over and over in csgo if they don't get their way, and they just always fail until the other people change their minds. As long as this vote was non-intrusive to the game (like a small objective notification below mini map) i see no issue with it. Also in csgo when the vote kick fails  theres a 2 minute cooldown on a new vote started by the person making it. Correct implementation of this would be needed but i only see it as a positive. There is no reason to vote kick someone at the start of a mission (easier to just leave) and if they did vote kick it would never be successful. 

Maybe a compromise is only allowing one vote kick per mission that requires 3 yes votes so you discuss it with your teammates first to know before hand if  you want to remove the one person as a team (excluding the one guy)

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Just now, mrhapps said:

Maybe a compromise is only allowing one vote kick per mission that requires 3 yes votes

There are better ways like these to implement it, I agree to that extent.
Sincerely, I wish I could remember what games I used to play with vote kicks.

I haven't played CSGO, so it could be that the community had a decorum that made it civil or last resort..
it could even be that we would do the same.. but that's far from the experience I've had.

Oh, Diablo 3 is one I've played with vote kick.
Game starts, someone doesn't like someone else's kit..
Votes to remove the player rather than be slowed down from the party being off meta..
"Would you just f'ng kick them already!?? What is wrong with you??? You're a can$er!"
Then they afk in spite, and of course the party is like, "Yes please, let's kick them now."
...and the whole experience was just totally avoidable.

I'm seeing it as more of a tool to be abused, because that is Absolutely the most common
and relentless usage I've seen. With that game, kick votes pertained Vastly more to
personal disagreements than to an afk player. ... I liked the previous post here that, if
we had this, it would only be permitted when the game deems them AFK.

Something else worth considering here... DE's ability to handle reports in a timely fashion.
2 players vote to kick because they disagree with another player for some petty reason,
I disagree with them... they raise a stink about it. They report me and the other person,
I report them... now DE has 3-4 new reports to deal with.
More staff, less money, no one wins there.

There are advantages to a well implemented kick, but there are inescapable side effects.
Many, many, potential side effects.. with a history of causing trouble in at least some games,
regardless of implementation.

You don't think people are going to vote kick a Limbo for being a Limbo in public?
DE wouldn't agree with that, but they'd be giving players a mechanic to exert that will.
That means, the game Is that now. This undermines the experience that they wish to curate.
Even if there are players that disagree with that experience, it's the intended experience they have to manufacture.

I don't think folks are crazy for wanting vote kick.
I've had a few moments over the years that made me see the appeal.
But I also know I'd be pointing that crosshair at myself, who does not play on meta.
And I am Dead sure that to spite my time and experience, people would absolutely kick me for playing Warframe off meta.
Check what counts as leeching to some players, and how mad they get in those threads... it's a very real potential.
 

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2 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

There are better ways like these to implement it, I agree to that extent.
Sincerely, I wish I could remember what games I used to play with vote kicks.
 

Here are some games with a kicking system from my library where there have been no complaints about kicks i have ever seen: GTAV online (kicking modders), CSGO (kicking afk or cheaters), Path of exile (don't want the guy u just traded with to join your mission that cost your resources to start), Left for dead 2 (afk, bad game experience?), terraria/minecraft (griefers). I think i have a few more but i don't remember the specifics of them so i won't add them.

and right now we have people reporting afkers/leechers. At worst this means 3 people are reporting the leecher and that is because one guy in the group said "MAN LOOK AT THIS GUY HES AFK JUST TAKING EVERYTHING WERE DOING FOR FREE REPORT HIM" so, how is this any worse than the guy who was kicked report the other 3? you don't need to report someone you kicked so either way at most there will be 3 reports being sent, unless the person broke some other game rule like being racist while protesting their vote kick in which case the report is warranted.

i think the possibility for people to start a vote to kick for limbo being on a team is reasonable, but i doubt that kick would ever go through just for being limbo unless the limbo was literally attempting to troll with their abilities. I play limbo a lot and only once have i had someone in the squad chat say "omfg limbo gtfo no one wants you here" before the objective was even completed.

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19 minutes ago, mrhapps said:

how is this any worse than the guy who was kicked report the other 3?

3 more elements to the report beyond the first:
There's initial cause that sparks the vote, but also
The lack/excess of cooperation/demand for that vote should it conflict,
whether the kick was justified or dubious,
and the fallout resulting from it happening or not.

Where there's 2 or 3 people agreeing that a person deserves to be reported,
it's easier to rule that person out of future games for them, and easier for
support to reach a decision on a single offense.

In your examples there, GTA's being for modders is a bit different, though the other examples are fine.
If the game auto-kicked people for being AFK, that would solve much of this.
With Left for dead, the "?".. is kinda the whole problem.

 

30 minutes ago, mrhapps said:

i think the possibility for people to start a vote to kick for limbo being on a team is reasonable, but i doubt that kick would ever go through just for being limbo

The other day I was in an Index as a Limbo.
My play was responsible, helpful to the party, and never aimed at other players, especially not to negatively affect them.

A players response was, "A limbo? Are You F'ng Serious? You should be ashamed of yourself."
...That guy isn't going to vote to kick? =/

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1 hour ago, kapn655321 said:

A players response was, "A limbo? Are You F'ng Serious? You should be ashamed of yourself."
...That guy isn't going to vote to kick? =/

he can go ahead and try, but like i said csgo has a cooldown for votes, so lets just say he decides to start vote and 1 other person says no to that (since the vote kick for just playing limbo is unreasonable majority of players will vote no) and bam, now he cant make another vote again and if he doesn't like limbo that much he can leave himself. 

in the case where all 3 people vote you out for having just started the mission as limbo, well bad luck just queue up again. You would be better off not playing with those kind of people anyways even if u get the short end of the stick 1/1000 times.

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Lately I have found too many AFK players in sorties, after 5300 hours playing, I still don't know how to report an AFK player.

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10 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

And if there are 2 people?

then no one gets voted out, unanimous decision must be made. They can be toxic all they want but it wouldn't change anything with how the game currently exists, since people can still be that type of toxic right now.

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26 minutes ago, mvaldess said:

Lately I have found too many AFK players in sorties, after 5300 hours playing, I still don't know how to report an AFK player.

Esc to menu, Communication, Friends, Recent players.
Select the name, report, select reason and fill out description,

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On 2019-12-22 at 6:33 AM, JackHargreav said:

It doesn't matter if we have a vote kick or not. There are S#&$ty ppl who will #*!% with ppl by exploiting the system and vote kick is just another tool to do that. It won't fix anything. Also ppl will start to kick out others from the squad because they dont like the frame that the 4th player brought as on. 

If anything we should get a proper match making. Mr 15 players getting put together Mr 10-20 players for example.

Except you can purchase weapons for plat at almost every MR, which DE even provides to you at initial account creation and allows lateral access to as soon as you can begin trading. MR stops being a conditional.

The whole "heavy attack is the new hotness" and even spin to win as the defacto attack method began with the galatine, and players that didn't have the MR simply bought it.

 

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On 2019-12-22 at 8:38 AM, Ham_Grenabe said:

No votekick. The upsides are not worth the downsides.

Graceful "Leave Squad" in all missions? Yes.

Edit: I'd entertain the notion of allowing the host to kick players, for a 10 plat fee. You want to kick someone, show us what it's worth to you. 

Lol, I want to hate the P2Kick idea, but I just can’t.  😆

It would still be used as a griefer’s weapon, though.

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