First we had arca plasmor, it got nerfed, then we had catchmoon, it got nerfed.

[Senguash]

Now we have shedu.

When the new war comes out and everybody gets this it's gonna be another catchmoon/plasmor situation with everyone and their grandma using it.

In this game well modded weapons can shred most content in the game, so it's all about how much aoe weapons have.

This gun has really good AoE, no self damage and for some reason the damage by no means took a hit in turn.

Dear DE, if you don't want these kinds of weapons in the game, why do you keep releasing them?
Based on the nerfs it seems like you dont.
Surely you won't be surprised at the populairty this time.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

And there's a delightful revision to Plasmor and Fulmin on the crosshairs as well, to possibly give it a catchmoon treatment. It is what it is.

[Skaleek]

This isnt the insane power creep that arca plasmor and catchmoon was. And yes, if everyone uses it, it will get nerfed.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Skaleek

[Voltage]

This has been happening for years and I doubt DE is going to actually look at the mechanic instead of an isolated weapon.

For example, when Telos Boltace was abused, that's when they should have addressed Maiming Strike and Melee Range. What do they do? Release Rivens in which Scoliac has one of the highest Dispositions as a whip and continued to neglect Maiming Strike.

The same thing has happened to Archwing. Itzal was overly popular due to his Blink, and now with Archwing mobility more slow and standardized, everyone and their grandma uses Amesha. And according to last Devstream, Amesha will be nerfed. History repeats itself too often in this game and it's a shame.

Unless DE changes their approach to OP gear, they will still be releasing Catchmoons, Magus Lockdown, Etc.

Its quite unfortunate that this happens because lots of people invest in these weapons, and time and resources are spent to make these weapons better. DE won't directly nerf the weapon just yet, but they will surely drive the Disposition into oblivion first. That is how weapons are balanced sadly, and when Melee Dispositions change in 2020, you will see that take place as well. 

Edited December 22, 2019 by Voltage

[Mephane]

34 minutes ago, Voltage said:

The same thing has happened to Archwing. Itzal was overly popular due to his Blink, and now with Archwing mobility more slow and standardized, everyone and their grandma uses Amesha. And according to last Devstream, Amesha will be nerfed. History repeats itself too often in this game and it's a shame.

And the reason why everyone uses Amesha is that at least this Archwing has abilities that actually work in Railjack content and can keep it from getting oneshot all the time. It is so blatantly caused by the wonky balance of Railjack missions and the broken abilities of other Archwings, yet they treat it as an "Amesha is too good" situation.

[Zelonblake]

Every good AoE warframe or weapon got nerfed on this game because people abuse of it, DE want us to play with another weapons, but mostly primaries and secondaries on this game don't have proper balance yet, making us using only specific weapons only, because don't have many options to use, when i mean options, i mean really good weapons, not any weapon, hope to see every primary and secondary weapon being useful and good on damage 3.0.

[Vilmera]

57 minutes ago, Mephane said:

broken abilities of other Archwings, 

Abilities of other archwings isn't broken - just obsolete, after railjack release.

[Robolaser]

Give it full self damage, problem solved. Precision weapons require good aim and prioritization, AoE weapons should require good positioning and awareness.

That said, maybe they know exactly what they're doing: release ridiculously powerful, easy to use and effective weapons, which become instant favorites. Then everyone WTB rivens (and for shedu, also weapon parts), which of course are sold at outrageous prices. Then, nerf either or both the weapon and rivens, before or shortly after releasing the next. Repeat. But i'm sure fans will tell me i'm just being paranoid.

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by Robolaser

[peterc3]

28 minutes ago, Robolaser said:

Give it full self damage, problem solved. Precision weapons require good aim and prioritization, AoE weapons should require good positioning and awareness.

That said, maybe they know exactly what they're doing: release ridiculously powerful, easy to use and effective weapons, which become instant favorites. Then everyone WTB rivens (and for shedu, also weapon parts), which of course are sold at outrageous prices. Then, nerf either or both the weapon and rivens, before or shortly after releasing the next. Repeat. But i'm sure fans will tell me i'm just being paranoid.

 

No you're not being paranoid. The Arca Plasmor was the only thing that allowed people to play the game and then they nerfed it, forcing us to use garbage like the Ignis Wraith. It is such a mystery as to why they keep nerfing Rivens for things that are more popular. There is literally no way we could ever anticipate that happening.

3 hours ago, Voltage said:

For example, when Telos Boltace was abused, that's when they should have addressed Maiming Strike and Melee Range. What do they do? Release Rivens in which Scoliac has one of the highest Dispositions as a whip and continued to neglect Maiming Strike.

Yeah, Maiming Strike was the main issue with the Telos Boltace at release.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

I can tell you right now that that’s not going to happen. It didn’t happen with broken war/war, it didn’t happen with Paracesis, it won’t happen with Shedu. DE isn’t going to nerf a quest weapon just because everybody is using it, because they know why everybody is using it, and it’s not a problematic issue of “this weapon is clearly too good”.

[vomder]

They always nerf what is popular, along with every other company. We can't be having fun in games, it's not allowed.

[Lone_Dude]

Shedu, Arca, Catchmoon and Fulmin wouldn't be as popular if they had good alternatives. But DE thinks that it's perfectly fine to have something like Kuva Ogris with it's 9% crit chance, limited mag and total ammo to deal self damage, as if it outperforms other weapons by 1000% in all instances.

[(XBOX)EPOSSTYLE]

16 hours ago, Senguash said:

Now we have shedu.

When the new war comes out and everybody gets this it's gonna be another catchmoon/plasmor situation with everyone and their grandma using it.

In this game well modded weapons can shred most content in the game, so it's all about how much aoe weapons have.

This gun has really good AoE, no self damage and for some reason the damage by no means took a hit in turn.

Dear DE, if you don't want these kinds of weapons in the game, why do you keep releasing them?
Based on the nerfs it seems like you dont.
Surely you won't be surprised at the populairty this time.

Nb4 it happens, "we DE did not intend for this weapon to function as such, so we have nerfed it useless" sorry for any inconvenience. Here's one forma and two missions with forma bps to replace your 5 forma weapon! 

[divi_india]

The way I see this problem is that everyone is using the same thing. They want people to explore instead of just googling best weapon and then grinding it to the bottom. This is the reason when anything becomes popular it goes down.

[NoLazyShadow]

18 часов назад, Voltage сказал:

The same thing has happened to Archwing. Itzal was overly popular due to his Blink, and now with Archwing mobility more slow and standardized, everyone and their grandma uses Amesha. And according to last Devstream, Amesha will be nerfed

Itzal were used because of its blink and vaccum. Now everyone have blink - thats good thing and with investments in modulars you can made your arch faster and decrese blink cooldown. Everyone use Amesha simply because its the only way to avoid getting killed every 2 seconds. And they haven't toched Titania's ult because they plan to give a full rework to archwings and their weapons.

[George_PPS]

That the favorite weapons often get nerfed because players love and enjoy to use them is the worse design and update methodology. This creates a lot of dissatisfied and very unhappy players who then just leave and abandon the game. That’s why the player count peaked in 2017-2018 and then continuously drop over time. Sad situation. 

[MJ12]

On 2019-12-22 at 4:49 AM, Senguash said:

Now we have shedu.

When the new war comes out and everybody gets this it's gonna be another catchmoon/plasmor situation with everyone and their grandma using it.

In this game well modded weapons can shred most content in the game, so it's all about how much aoe weapons have.

This gun has really good AoE, no self damage and for some reason the damage by no means took a hit in turn.

Dear DE, if you don't want these kinds of weapons in the game, why do you keep releasing them?
Based on the nerfs it seems like you dont.
Surely you won't be surprised at the populairty this time.

The Arca Plasmor 'nerf' was because its hitbox was inadvertently allowing it to hit headshots all the time, and with a relatively crit-focused weapon this meant that its DPS was literally much higher than expected. So it's arguably a bugfix rather than a nerf. The Catchmoon ate a nerf because it was a ludicrously powerful gun that could manage a ~100% critical chance, and even there its nerf means little if you just use it as a Call of Duty-style shotgun instead of sniping with it.

I'm pretty sure the Shedu doesn't have that sort of lolstats and the 'crit-focused explosive weapons inadvertently deal quad damage all the time' bug was fixed way back.

[Tenno76856]

Wasnt catchmoon nerfed for its range more than anything though?

[CuChulainnWD]

On 2019-12-22 at 10:45 AM, Mephane said:

And the reason why everyone uses Amesha is that at least this Archwing has abilities that actually work in Railjack content and can keep it from getting oneshot all the time. It is so blatantly caused by the wonky balance of Railjack missions and the broken abilities of other Archwings, yet they treat it as an "Amesha is too good" situation.

Yep. Amesha works well, and as advertised, balanced just right. The onus is on the operator to keep yourself alive by systems management. So why mess with it? Because the other three are lack luster is a poor excuse. The other three could do with a few buffs.

Itzle for example could do with a double or tripple normal flight speed.  Make its invisibility either Loki based or Ivara but with a 25% reduction to its flight speed. Make Zip line have a much longer reach, stun one target, and be able to pull yourself into the target for melee strikes if they ever fix that noise.

Elytron should be made into a super tank. Same speed, big buff to health armour and shields. Make all of its missile types seeking, and much faster than current.  Elytron can play "Limpet" to the Railjack, piggybacking along its ventral section for better arcs of fire.

Odinata the flying pig just needs buffs to its range and that they actually work with and for the Railjack.  All 4 Archwing types would then be viable choice for Archwing Jockeys to support a Railjack.

It would also be nice to be able to choose your Archwing in mission from the station. It is there, we might as well be able to use it as the situation warrants.
 

Edited December 24, 2019 by CuChulainnWD

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

Arca plasmor is so 2017

Catchmoon is so 2019

We're in 2020 in a few days, embrace the Cryophon bandwagon

Edited December 24, 2019 by MonsterOfMyOwn

[CopperBezel]

On 2019-12-22 at 9:22 PM, Lone_Dude said:

Shedu, Arca, Catchmoon and Fulmin wouldn't be as popular if they had good alternatives. But DE thinks that it's perfectly fine to have something like Kuva Ogris with it's 9% crit chance, limited mag and total ammo to deal self damage, as if it outperforms other weapons by 1000% in all instances.

The Kuva Tonkor is already a just-better Kuva Ogris. The same thing with crit and less punishing or arbitrary self-damage. Self-damage is pretty nonsensical in general - always an instant kill and easily triggered by factors well outside of the player's control, like an unexpected enemy or teammate crossing your screen or a straight-up bugged collision. I don't really understand the purpose of introducing weapons and then punishing players for using them, but? Shrug

I feel like the Catchmoon nerf has been pretty overplayed. It's still incredibly damaging at short range, and we have weapon exilus slots for range extension now, so. What nerf did the Arca Plasmor get back in the day? Is that how it got such an abysmal crit chance?

[-AncientWarrior-]

On 2019-12-23 at 2:05 PM, vomder said:

They always nerf what is popular, along with every other company. We can't be having fun in games, it's not allowed.

yep above says it all - DE[FunPolice] raid players arsenal again!  and its all the lovely plat they get players to purchase when the next great gun comes out, and nerf that one, and so on..

[Tenno76856]

Maybe if youtubers stopped pushing X weapon as next best thing or people stopped saying Y is best in comments.... (But then DE can see whats used most.... Do they ever reveal the most used weapons like they do warframes sometimes during devstreams???)

[Hexsing]

My setup is Fashion.

Garuda

Gunsen

Javlok - With Harrow Skin

Harpak -  Just cool.  It really is cool.  

Zakti - Because the ribbon matches Garuda.

Cyanex - This is so underrated it offends me how people don't even know its so great.

But as someone else said. We have a lot of people who just follow meta and Youtube supports this.

 

[Lone_Dude]

7 hours ago, CopperBezel said:

The Kuva Tonkor is already a just-better Kuva Ogris. The same thing with crit and less punishing or arbitrary self-damage. Self-damage is pretty nonsensical in general - always an instant kill and easily triggered by factors well outside of the player's control, like an unexpected enemy or teammate crossing your screen or a straight-up bugged collision. I don't really understand the purpose of introducing weapons and then punishing players for using them, but? Shrug

I feel like the Catchmoon nerf has been pretty overplayed. It's still incredibly damaging at short range, and we have weapon exilus slots for range extension now, so. What nerf did the Arca Plasmor get back in the day? Is that how it got such an abysmal crit chance?

I think self-damage is supposed to offset the POWER OF MIGHTY AOE WEAPONS lmao. It's DE and their amazing balance as usual. It would make more sense if we couldn't reach higher KPS with non-self-damage weapons, but as it stands right now - it's just stupid and uncalled for.

Arca Plasmor had it's headshot multiplier removed. It's range was cut as well - at some point it had a nice interaction with Ivara where you could pilot the projectile around with her Navigator, but now it just disappears.