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Exp Grinding: Why The Exp Radius?


Psychosist
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Spawn camping is an annoying issue in the game at the moment, especially on popular farming maps like Kappa, Sedna, which have recently rose in popularity for their high spawn rates and low difficulty. I usually play Cyath when I can, but that's a bit tougher to do with an Unranked weapon, so I warm up on Kappa before I can step it up.

 

The thing about Kappa is that it's very popular among new players, especially those that haven't gotten out of the stage of spawn camping. They simply refuse to stay put in the terminal room and apparently have to climb up the stairs or go into the central room to kill stuff. I would tell them to stop and it usually works, and if it doesn't, I can pull them back with Switch Teleport if I happen to be sporting Loki (I try to use him for Weapon grinding when possible just to punish AFK/Leechers).

 

Earlier, I got into a Kappa game and one of the players (Mastery 9) would go into the central room and camp all the spawns. There were hardly any spawns in the terminal room, and the few spawns that occurred vanished quickly. Two of the players mentioned to stay in the room, one of them being myself. The camper responded along the lines of "I've been waiting to say this" and proceeds to tell the squad about the mechanics of spawns and EXP gain.

 

He claims the EXP radius is very wide, so wide that in fact I could be in the terminal room and he could be hugging the wall of the central room and we'd still get EXP. His supposed source was "the wiki" and "the forums". I've checked the Wiki and found no such evidence.

 

"There is a distance in which a player must be to earn experience from a member of the team (range undetermined for the moment)." - http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Experience_Mechanics

 

He also mentioned that the spawns won't be screwed up because they'll instead spawn through other entrances. Again, this is debatable, as no one seems to have confirmed this anywhere that I've checked.

 

Now, with neither side having sufficient evidence to disprove the opposing party, I stopped trying to argue and let him do what he wanted. When we finally reached the central room with the cryopod, he was out far from the Cryopod doing his own thing. I left the pod for a moment to grab some ammo for my freshly forma'd Soma (eats up ammo fast) and come back to see the pod at 10%. Needless to say, we failed the mission, and I left with half the EXP that I would usually get from a good run (9k for Soma, 5k everything else).

 

Anyway, I'm posting this topic to gather feedback from you guys about the EXP mechanics. I realize that the Players Helping Players board is more suited for asking questions, but I think this subject is flexible enough to generate discussion. I always assumed that I'm within EXP radius if I can see the blue numbers that appear above my teammates' kills. If I can't see the numbers, we're too far apart. Have any of you guys done testing on this? What's the point of the EXP Radius restriction? I'm guessing it's to prevent AFK players from getting EXP if they're too far from the squad, but this mechanic seems to promote leeching and spawn camping in my eyes, as you can sit in a corner and still be able to get the EXP your teammates are giving out. Spawn camping also steals EXP, making this EXP mechanic useless if you're playing with a bad group.

 

tl;dr What do you think of the EXP sharing system? Should it be overhauled, if so, what with? What's the point of the EXP Radius restriction?

Edited by Psychosist
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just to point out: you don't really have a better suggestion.

And as thing are now, I think having the radius is better than not having it. (of course, a better system may overturn this opinion)

 

thats why I dont like going to pub games, instead I go with my clanmates, My blood boils on stupid people in pubs.

 

Yes there are bad experiences in pub games due to some jerks. But your statement hints at a forming/formd  discrimination against people in pub games (forgive me if I misread/misunderstood you). We should really judge people by themselves, not where we meet them. Personally, I will actively add people who are proven jerks/leechers/afkers/griefers to the ignore list. Hopefully I will reduce the chance of meeting such people very slightly, byt one person at a time (just to clarify, I only add people to ignore list based on proven acts, not based on personal likes/dislikes)

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just to point out: you don't really have a better suggestion.

And as thing are now, I think having the radius is better than not having it. (of course, a better system may overturn this opinion)

 

 

Yes there are bad experiences in pub games due to some jerks. But your statement hints at a forming/formd  discrimination against people in pub games (forgive me if I misread/misunderstood you). We should really judge people by themselves, not where we meet them. Personally, I will actively add people who are proven jerks/leechers/afkers/griefers to the ignore list. Hopefully I will reduce the chance of meeting such people very slightly, byt one person at a time (just to clarify, I only add people to ignore list based on proven acts, not based on personal likes/dislikes)

I'm sorry if you viewed it as offensive, but I just really want an option to pick people rather than going all random in a room. (not that its bad) 

 

I'm irritated cuz I stub my pinky toe.

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just to point out: you don't really have a better suggestion.

And as thing are now, I think having the radius is better than not having it. (of course, a better system may overturn this opinion)

 

I was actually thinking of adding to the opening post a suggestion, but I couldn't fit it in and make it look smooth with the rest. My idea is to have an infinite EXP Radius, but players that have not actively killed for an X period will be ineligible to receive their teammates' EXP until they become active again.

 

The point of limiting the range, besides discouraging people from going afk at the spawn, is to encourage players to play as a team. The problem is selfish people that don't care about the rest of the team.

And that's exactly why I'm not fond of the current EXP range, as selfish players are more able to take EXP from the rest of the team. Encouraging teamwork is great, but there's no real way to enforce it, as blowing off the team is easily accomplished in games.

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And that's exactly why I'm not fond of the current EXP range, as selfish players are more able to take EXP from the rest of the team. Encouraging teamwork is great, but there's no real way to enforce it, as blowing off the team is easily accomplished in games.

I am fully empathize with the "selfish" players who have no allowances for team work. If something can be done, it will be great.

BUT. unlimited XP range don't make these people change behavior. It just relieves some of the impacts of their selfish behavior. While this by itself is good for the rest of us....

It will promote another kind of selfish people: leechers. It won't stop the existing reward leechers who don't need XP (they just want the end-of-mission rewards) but now, XP leeching becomes every so easier. They can practically hide any where and still gain the bonus.

 

So while I don't deny that unlimited XP range will solve some problems, I think the potential problems it introduces makes it a net loss. For one thing: I would rather have a spawn camper than a idle leecher (they are not AFK. They just don't do anything until it is time to pickup the loot). At least the former makes it easier to complete the mission objective. The latter are pure leechers. (and don't buy the stupid reason: "we bring an extra aura". If we have a non-leecher, we have an aura AND a kill-contributing teammate).

 

Note: I am not against changing the XP system. I am just playing opposition here in the attempt to see whether we can find a really better one... (or if we cannot, at least it will convince us to bear with the current system until one arrives in the future).

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snip

I'm thinking the opposite. I prefer leechers than campers. Neither produce EXP for the team, but campers actually steal EXP by hoarding spawns for themselves. I mean, if you're not gonna play, sure, but don't drag the team down with you, right?

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I'm thinking the opposite. I prefer leechers than campers. Neither produce EXP for the team, but campers actually steal EXP by hoarding spawns for themselves. I mean, if you're not gonna play, sure, but don't drag the team down with you, right?

Let me point out a context: if you continue to play, there will be some point where you need less or outright don't need EXP anymore. Will you still tolerate leechers so? Having unlimited XP range will just increase the inactive leechers for such people, with no benefit whatsoever. That is the position for me atm... (and probably for quite a number of players in similar situation.. well, less those who have unlimited Formas and aim to put at least 5 stars on all their equipment)

Edited by smithf
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It's getting pretty annoying now. I joined a pub and the host asked this one other player nicely to return to the terminal room.

It's really selfish to go Rambo while the other three teammates defend the objective.

What happened? Well one of us decided to run out there and block all of his shots (by standing in front of him) until he would come back to the terminal. It worked.

=D

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I think exp radius is to promote teams to stick together. Works well, don't you think?

 

Personally I think they should remove it or make it a lot bigger. Or simply remove exp radius from defense, survival and MD. And keep it in others.

But then again removing it would promote leeching. If you get exp only if you hit things you would get kill stealing. 

There is no "exploit"/grief free way of doing exp.

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Yeah this is a huge issue. I think that the way DE should do it is to either add more locations, put the locations generally closer to the objective so that the enemies would spawn to the room where the objective is, not to another room. This might not still be enough however and I think that the best idea I could come up with is to add multiple spawn locations so that there is more than 4 on each defense objective and they are of course, completely different direction so one couldn't spawn camp two major spawns and then also add a detection mechanic that would detect how fast a mob dies after it's spawn and then it would spawn the enemies as far from the spawn camper as possible. This would not solve the problem all together but it would significantly reduce the effectiveness of a spawn camper and enforce people to stay near the objective and play the modes as intended,

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What they need is a system that encourages teamplay, the current one tries to do it but it also encourages spawn camping, which steals xp.

 

So how about adding a second system into it? Say if you have a team of four, then you gain full xp only if when you kill something, all your allies are also close enough to gain xp from it (it should be possible to exclude loners from the equation, including afk players). That way you will gain less xp if you don't stick to your teammates. Spawncamping would then be very bad for everybody, including the person doing it.

 

There's probably plenty of issues with that idea, but maybe something in that direction could help.

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