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[Railjack] Why the MK component system is causing frustration and new Railkack configuration system.


Awazx
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I will be very simple: there is currently no valid reason for the existence of the 3 current power levels (MKI, MKII and MKIII). None, neither for weapons, nor for reactors or engines. Especially for reactors.

What is a reactor in Railjack? It is the equivalent to the reactor we install in our Warframes. Now suppose that in the market you could buy reactors that contribute, +30, +60 and +90 to your Mod capacity. It is obvious that this would not provide real options.

  • Something similar happens with weapons. When you get the MKIII weapon of your choice, what is the meaning of the existence of all the MKI and MKII weapons?
  • The game offers no real sense of personalization. There are no associated advantages for using components with lower statistics. As you get better components, everything else is just a source of Endo.
  • Currently everything revolves around a goal: reach Veil as soon as possible and get MKIII components.
  • Everything else feels like a waste of time. If you get a good MKII weapon and decide to invest in it you will feel that you are throwing away your resources, because, in short, you can get a better MKII or finally an MKIII.
  • In fact, it is not even necessary to go to Veil. The clan can offer very competent MKIII components and with little effort. Meanwhile, investigating the entire MKI and II set of the clan feels like a necessary nuisance and a time gate until you reach level III.
  • To obtain the best equipment, it is not necessary to pilot the ship itself. It is enough with a 7 intrinsic and climb the ships of other captants for them to do the dirty work in Veil.
  • All this current MK system can only offer frustration and the feeling that the effort invested on the road is not worth it. The existence of MKI and MKII components only makes sense when their use could provide additional advantages in other areas.

The possible solution is difficult to summarize, because it may require a thorough reform of the current system of components. The idea is that the components (weapons, reactors, shields, engines) use a cost in points (assembly points). Now suppose your Railjack has 100 assembly points. With this:

NEW MODULAR ASSEMBLY SYSTEM

  • Do you want your ship to be faster? Spend 30 points on that fantastic MKIII engine. But you will have fewer points for shields and weapons.
  • Do you want your ship to be a glass cannon? Spend 60 points on weapons and 30 on engines, but you won't have points for armor.
  • Do you want your ship to be a damn beast in everything? You have to grind the resource (N) you can spend to expand the capacity of your ship's component points. Over time, you will have MKIII in everything. And if one day that wonderful MK IV engine arrives you could choose to leave room for it and continue using MKII in weapons. Because you love speed and your ship is the hawk of the stars.

I hope that the general idea is captured and I do not intend to give a "done and measured" system. This system has 4 advantages:

  • Allows true customization capacity
  • The "lower" components have a necessary role because their use allows to enhance other areas of the ship.
  • It allows an infinite variety of types of ships and if later DE adds new components MK (N) the system offers a feeling of smooth progress towards them.
  • And for DE: players must continue grinding. This is Warframe, after all.

TL; DR: The current system of components does not offer real customization and punishes the player for his investment of time and resources. The proposed new system (modular system) makes all components, both small and large, useful and allows infinite customization.

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how is this different from the rest of the game anyways. you have low, medium, and high Level Missions which give you progressively better/more stuff, making the lower Level Missions serve little to no purpose to you.
the game is kinda built around that fundamentally.

while i'd be completely open to 'leveling the entire playfield' so that every region can offer much of the same Gamemode/'challenge'/Rewards without breaking the set Progression curve - the game isn't that way currently.

 

lower Tier Equipment is a place to get you started, and then you'll move on to a higher Zone and get some new Equipment to go with it. 
you could perhaps say the Difficulty curve between Railjack zones currently doesn't really separate them as well as you might expect them to when presenting themselves this way - but that's the usual virtue of the game isn't it, that simply putting a higher Level Number (whether real or hiding it like in Railjack) on Enemies doesn't make Missions any more difficult, it's still the same thing.

most importantly, i'd agree in principle that Railjack Parts don't offer that much for customziation - but that's not because there are item Tiers but rather because of the Variants of each type of Part, there are objectively superior Stats to seek after - plus that for say Weapons, there aren't even that many Weapons (yet?) in the first place.

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hace 1 minuto, taiiat dijo:

how is this different from the rest of the game anyways. you have low, medium, and high Level Missions which give you progressively better/more stuff, making the lower Level Missions serve little to no purpose to you.t

It is completely different from what we now have and I could assume that I failed to convey the general idea correctly.

Indeed, lower level missions lose their purpose as the player gets better things, because there is no penalty to the use of "all the best." The ship can use everything and equip everything, even with a Sigma reactor of level 0.

With this system, all the components have their place and the lower missions also, because that is where the smallest components are obtained.

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2 minutes ago, Awazx said:

With this system, all the components have their place and the lower missions also, because that is where the smallest components are obtained.

and in trade we'll have to sacrifice Railjack being able to offer any even remotely difficult content, ever. because everything has to be balanced around unmodded EHP, unmodded Damage, Et Cetera.

i'm not seeing a benefit here. choices can be offered inside of Slots, without preventing Players working with all of the Equipment. we already have House Variants, take that idea and run with it to create deeper specialization.

Edited by taiiat
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Justo ahora, taiiat dijo:

and in trade we'll have to sacrifice Railjack being able to offer any even remotely difficult content, ever. because everything has to be balanced around unmodded EHP, unmodded Damage, Et Cetera.

i'm not seeing a benefit here. choices can be offered inside of Slots, without preventing Players working with all of the Equipment. we already have House Variants, take that idea and run with it to create deeper specialization.

This has nothing to do with the content of my publication. Please, I am willing to discuss the points, but I need the right questions / doubts.

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34 minutes ago, Awazx said:

Something similar happens with weapons. When you get the MKIII weapon of your choice, what is the meaning of the existence of all the MKI and MKII weapons?

This question becomes even more important once you have the dojo Mk III stuff researched.  Why ever bother investing resources into lower level stuff instead of just grinding Earth missions until you can build Mk III everything?

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hace 7 minutos, zuraja dijo:

This question becomes even more important once you have the dojo Mk III stuff researched.  Why ever bother investing resources into lower level stuff instead of just grinding Earth missions until you can build Mk III everything?

Exactly.

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1 hour ago, zuraja said:

This question becomes even more important once you have the dojo Mk III stuff researched.  Why ever bother investing resources into lower level stuff instead of just grinding Earth missions until you can build Mk III everything?

That's what I did - ridealong on Earth or Saturn missions, amassing stuff to build Mk III everything. I don't even have the intrinsics to go to the Veil yet, but my ship is kitted solidly (either Sigma Mk III, or other manufacturers) and I'm asking myself, "Why would I bother to go to the Veil?"

The double-layer RNG is not encouraging me to go chasing Veil drops, is what I'm sayin'. 

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Il y a 5 heures, Awazx a dit :

I will be very simple: there is currently no valid reason for the existence of the 3 current power levels (MKI, MKII and MKIII). None, neither for weapons, nor for reactors or engines. Especially for reactors.

The design intent was to have people slowly craft the various component while clearing the new starmap. But the ressources costs were too high, the time to research / build too long, you save your ressources to craft MK3, and with 6k hull and Amesha you can make your way to the veil.

The design flaw is mostly the cost of MKI and MKII, they tried to lower the grind by increasing ressources drop rate/value, but it's still too much to bother crafting components.

 

divide by 3 the cost of base gear, MK1 weapons (400 pustrels / 600 cubic diodes etc), divide by 2 the cost of MK2 gears (3500 copernic, 2800 carbides, etc) and people will craft and equip those before starting to grind for MK3

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DE have been moving away from the standard "Mods" system for a while now. Operators, for instance, are entirely unmoddable and instead rely on Focus abilities. Amps, similarly, have no real modding potential beyond the parts they're made from and the Guilding system. And now Railjack Components have no modding system of their own, just linear upgrades. Instead, we have to mod them by proxy through the Railjack-wide Avionics system. This would be like if our Guns couldn't be modded, but we could mod our Warframes for +% Critical Chance and +%Ammo Capacity.

I'm with the OP on this one. There's no real reason to bother with grinding for MK-1 and MK-2 Railjack weapons. There's still reason to GET them, at least for someone like me who insists on using his own ship. I need MK-1 and MK-2 gear in order to be competitive in Saturn Proxima so I'm currently working through those. I'm NOT going to bother grinding for the perfect "god rolls" on any of my MK-1 and MK-2 wreckage, though, because it's pointless. I'm going to be replacing it, why bother invest more than the bare minimum? This is the same issue games like The Division have, where it's just about pointless trying to reroll stats or optimise gear until World Tier 5, because you'll be trashing it in short order. If I already have a MK-2 gun which works, I've no reason to even so much as look at any other MK-2 guns because I'll be trashing ALL of that as soon as I have access to a MK-3.

Honestly, I'm not too opposed to this system, as long as DE recognise that most people will do what we did in The Division: Track down a buddy with access to Veil Proxima, go there to gather high-level resources, build MK-3 straight away and skip all the previous Tiers. I worked my ass through World Tiers 1-4 in The Division and The Division 2. Friends of mine, however? Eh, they just got random castoff loot with a high enough gear score to get them TO World Tier 5, then they upgraded from there. In their rush to be like every other "looter shooter," DE have implemented a lot of questionable mechanics along the way.

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8 hours ago, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

divide by 3 the cost of base gear, MK1 weapons (400 pustrels / 600 cubic diodes etc), divide by 2 the cost of MK2 gears (3500 copernic, 2800 carbides, etc) and people will craft and equip those before starting to grind for MK3

And do similar things to crafting time, MK1 gears should be 30minutes instead of 12h, and MK2 gears should be 3hours instead of 12h.

Edited by Test-995
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To be fair, it seems the intended design is that we grind up through them. We start with basic gear, then grind up to MK1, then grind up to MK2, then grind up to MK3. I've actually been approaching the content with this mindset. To be fair, I'm mostly just using the dojo research weapons instead of bothering to repair wreckage, since it's cheaper resource costs.

Unfortunately, other players just decided they could park the ship in the back like it's some kind of bus, and use Archwing to clear all the content without having to worry about Railjack equipment.

Which is very much a design oversight. And that's still ignoring how easy it is to just join another person's crew in the Veil and get easy access to the "end game" Railjack content and rewards, without having to do the work yourself on a ship.

Maybe once they address the resource costs, this won't be a problem, but it's hard to say. MK1 should be VERY cheap to repair, and MK2 should at least be cheaper than the dojo MK2 options. I wouldn't mind MK3 wreckage being the same cost as the dojo MK3 research - you have to run Veil content to get either the resources OR the MK3 wreckage, though, so what would the point of the dojo research version really be?

14 hours ago, zuraja said:

instead of just grinding Earth missions until you can build Mk III everything?

Well because MK3 stuff usually requires stuff that only drops in the Veil. Bracoids, for example.

Trachons, also, will only drop in the Veil or Saturn (but I haven't seen them in Saturn, maybe I'm just not paying attention)

And Titanium in such quantities that farming the Veil is likely superior. Then again, maybe most of you don't bother opening containers and lockers inside asteroids/galleons/etc? I've gotten way more resources doing this than I ever have from completion rewards.

I guess the Vidar house weapons only take Fresnels and Asterite, which can likely be found on Earth.

Edited by DrakeWurrum
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Titanium is easily farm on Earth. Especially the tileset that have ship debirs floating about. Those usually have containers housing 30 or up to 50 titanium.
In the case of railjack progression, it's just to get used to the gameplay. Above all else, it's DE trying to sell us those repair drones that 50 plat each. Even now a railjack isn't require to complete a mission in the veil. It helps, but still not require. Just imagine when DE make a tileset that was hazardous to even step outside of the railjack. Like a void storm or electromagnetic cloud.

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