Revenant Discussion

[NuclearCoffeePot]

There are a number of frames who require rework- Titania for overall blech is probably top of the list and I would love to see her reworked, then there are frames like frost and nyx who have mechanics that are old and there is no reason to pick them over other frames, Hydroid is good but his gameplay is not very interactive and boring if you play him efficiently, then there is revenant- sloppy mechanic's, strange thematic implementation, and some synergy problems put him at number 2 on my list.

 

Ideas-

A note before we dive in- Why doesn't revenant have a vomvalyst face, it's both somehow creepy and loveable  and giving him those eyes like on his mask and a skeletal nose would up his eerie factor- if not on his face to keep the eidolon beard, make it on his back where there is empty space, or a part of his chest

Revenant Small scale changes- These ideas will not change him much from his current state, only adding some mechanical changes and qol

Passive-Passively generate overshields- when they are damaged release an energy spike that stuns nearby enemies

1-Enthrall has an added function- When thralls die they enter a spectral form similar to vomvalysts- in this form they gain a damage bonus, no longer enthrall enemies and have a seperate cap counter from base thralls-

Base thrall changes- Limiter is now based on how many enemies each initial thrall can enthrall- 

2-Stay the same- Casting enthrall on a stunned enemy has a % chance based on power strength to enthrall an additional nearby enemy for 0 cost

3-Reave- give it better controls- mabye let it clip through some objects- for mobility's sake reave continues in the direction it is cast in with steering but is not effected by gravity- instead staying on the same angle- thus if you cast forward you keep going forward and can pass over hole's in the map without falling through, you could also aim upwards to fly in that direction- this will be useful for DM since you won't have to travel around paths and instead can use REave to take shortcuts and your preserved momentum from reave can help catapult you - reave now converts excess heals and shields into overshields

4-DAnce Macabre- Make lasers have a vertical hitbox so your lasers don't have to be right on the dot to hit them- hitting stunned enemies with dance macabre enthralls them for 0 cost- killing thralls in dance macabre restores energy-

 

Here is the link for the large scale rework concept

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by NuclearCoffeePot

[(XBOX)EPOSSTYLE]

I think he only needs a highly steerable 3 and move over terrain unlike he has feet. Its super stupid as mist to have to obey the same path access as a roller ball?

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

You’re effectively keeping Revenant the same. 0/10.

The only way to make Revenant an actual good frame is by purging his 1-3, tearing out that idiotic vampire theme, and giving him good abilities themed after Eidolons/Sentients. We even have new Sentients for power inspiration.

[NuclearCoffeePot]

7 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You’re effectively keeping Revenant the same. 0/10.

The only way to make Revenant an actual good frame is by purging his 1-3, tearing out that idiotic vampire theme, and giving him good abilities themed after Eidolons/Sentients. We even have new Sentients for power inspiration.

I kinda disagree. IN the sense that I don't think rev is bad but his ability mechanics need work to make them more effective, leaching shields and hp, adaptive damage, aggro army, and complete damage nullification sounds pretty good to me

Though he should have a bid more themed around eidolon's- Ill work on some new concepts and update the post in a day or so

Edited December 29, 2019 by NuclearCoffeePot

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

5 minutes ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

I kinda disagree. IN the sense that I don't think rev is bad

Faulty logic right there.

[Madway7]

On 2019-12-28 at 1:41 AM, NuclearCoffeePot said:

1st- After a period of not taking damage or after using an ability revenant generates overshields based on a % of his max shieldsx power strength- when this overshield is damaged he releases a wave of sentient energy that stuns all enemies in an x meter radius

this is actually an interesting idea, rechargable overshields sounds like it could fit the theme since eidolons only have overshields and they can be recharged (albeit only after losing a limb/via vomvalyst call)

 

My idea for a new passive (in a rework that would keep him mostly the same) would be to give him an amount of strength based on his shield capacity. Say, 20% for reg shield, 50 when at maxed overshields. 

 

 

 

On 2019-12-28 at 1:41 AM, NuclearCoffeePot said:

4-Dance macabre-aside from Enthrall it's probably getting the most changes- for starters killing thralls no longer gives overshields and instead restores energy based on a % of recently consumed per thrall-10% base x power strength-with 200% strength- 5 thralls needed to restore energy lost- Next change- while in dance macabre Revenant can use hold and control to alter his elevation, hovering in the air- the higher revenant is from the ground below the lower the angle of his lasers can go, pointing them down causes them to cluster rather then form a line- next change- revenant can control the angle of his lasers to an extent by the location of his cursor- alternatively revenant's lasers can have a vertical hitbox- increasing the higher he goes-

When thinking about how I would change this I immediately went towards removing the goofy animation, personally I really dislike it now, for a while it was fine, a bit funny even, but that wore thin really quick. 

So how would I change it (if I could)? I would make it a Mirage ball that always follows him. (thats the basics of it although I'm still working out balance issues which would come from being able to shoot weapons and move around freely)

Although general things would be to let strength affect the status chance, removing it detonating Enthrall pillars and adding an aiming function so it can deal with single targets more effectively.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Madway7

[CopperBezel]

Reave has a nice tie into the Vombulysts's ghost form, and a mobility power with healing is a handy thing to have, kind of a perfect panic button. To me, that's the one bit of his kit on the most solid ground conceptually and I'd hate for him to lose it.

I still don't know why he has a damage mitigation ability that doesn't work more like Sentient adaptation or the mod. I guess those things aren't very interesting, but it seems like a freebie thematically. 

Danse Macabre is just so very silly looking, and the limited movement only makes it look worse. X /

Enthrall is just ... both thematically and in gameplay terms, I don't know why it's there. Mind control is an Orokin thing, not a Sentient thing.

Edited December 29, 2019 by CopperBezel

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, CopperBezel said:

Reave has a nice tie into the Vombulysts's ghost form, and a mobility power with healing is a handy thing to have, kind of a perfect panic button. To me, that's the one bit of his kit on the most solid ground conceptually and I'd hate for him to lose it.

I still don't know why he has a damage mitigation ability that doesn't work more like Sentient adaptation or the mod. I guess those things aren't very interesting, but it seems like a freebie thematically. 

Danse Macabre is just so very silly looking, and the limited movement only makes it look worse. X /

Enthrall is just ... both thematically and in gameplay terms, I don't know why it's there. Mind control is an Orokin thing, not a Sentient thing.

Oh boy I get to give a history lesson.

So, Revenant is vampire themed. Because apparently the day where his theme was decided on all of the goodness in the world was absent. If you don’t believe me go back to the devstream where they reveal him. But this is the reason why, aside from Danse Macabre, Revenant has no Eidolons themed abilities.

Reave was initially a wall of mist. Like literally a 1cm thick wall of mist. I’m pretty sure the abilities screen video even still shows it. The only reason it is currently a Vomby dash is because the mist wall looked so bad. And the fact that it’s primary function is giving health is pretty useless when you consider that his main defense ability doesn’t rely on health. And the only way for Reave to maintain that ability is through a practically unreliable synergy. Also it’s incredibly slow cast time actually makes it a pretty bad escape ability.

Does Danse Macabre look silly? Yes. But it’s honestly Revenants best and strongest ability and again his only properly Eidolon themed ability. Also it was either restricted movement or no movement at all.

And yeah you hit the nail on the head with Enthrall. Tho it’s a vampire ability not an Orokin ability. It’s garbage, it makes no sense. The only thing it deserves is to be removed and have its code saved to a flash drive so it can be burned.
 

Both thematically and mechanically Revenant is a mess. Making a frame a vampire despite his backstory having ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM just so somebody (guess who) could finally have their vampire frame in the game has honestly been one of the worst things ever introduced into Warframe. Up there with Archwings introduction, Loot frame nerfs, and Railjack numbers balancing.

Edited December 29, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[CopperBezel]

I knew that the original idea was to make a vampire frame, but obviously that never shipped and he was supposedly Sentient themed when he landed, and now we have Garuda as the vampire frame anyway, which make the bits of vampire still stuck to him seem even more redundant in retrospect. So I guess I assumed it was something that got changed early in the process and informed a lot of decisions in his design, as opposed to something that just got slapped on top late in some minor dressings. I mean, even the name "Revenant" is still purely vampire-related, but.

As for Danse Macabre - I dunno, maybe he needs to pop out Hildryn-style shoulder floaties and have those do the spinning, and just get reduced movement speed so he can still jump, or something. Or alternately, give him Hildryn's slow-ass flight control. I just see a Revenant start spinning and feel sorry for the poor dear. It would be eerie and thematic if he was moving in a way that looked unsettlingly as if he could tip over at any moment, but somehow uncannily and determinedly drifted wherever he wished. As it is, he gets stuck on a railing and the part of my unconscious mind that's supposed to be creeped out is just worried he's legitimately going to end up faceplanting. 

[GPrime96]

3 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

just so somebody (guess who) could finally have their vampire frame in the game 

Also have the reworked Nyx in there too.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

6 hours ago, CopperBezel said:

I knew that the original idea was to make a vampire frame, but obviously that never shipped and he was supposedly Sentient themed when he landed, and now we have Garuda as the vampire frame anyway

HA. He’s still very much vampire themed with only a little Eidolon thrown in. Also Garuda is not vampire themed, shes gore themed. I know it’s very easy to confuse her theme but come on man.

Edited December 29, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(PSN)thegarada]

I have to agree with GearsMatrix, the design of rev is completely off. Skill 1-3 has nothing to do with being a reverent or eidolon. Skill 4, ballerina dance has nothing to do with anything. The design of this skill feels almost like a prank by DE. In terms of game play he is not bad, but aesthetically he is a disaster. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

I have to agree with GearsMatrix, the design of rev is completely off. Skill 1-3 has nothing to do with being a reverent or eidolon. Skill 4, ballerina dance has nothing to do with anything. The design of this skill feels almost like a prank by DE. In terms of game play he is not bad, but aesthetically he is a disaster. 

His 4 actually makes the most sense. Eidolons fire lasers. Danse Macabre is Revenant firing out a bunch of lasers, it also has an offensive version of the sentient damage adaptation.

Also, outside of Danse Macabre the rest of Revenants abilities are garbage, so he’s pretty much the worst frame gameplay wise.

[CopperBezel]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Also Garuda is not vampire themed, shes gore themed.

Check the name of her alt helmet and consider that it's not gore she draws on, it's blood....

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 minute ago, CopperBezel said:

Check the name of her alt helmet and consider that it's not gore she draws on, it's blood....

It’s pretty easy to surmount from other frames and the names DE picks for stuff that simply going off the name of a cosmetic to argue a frames theme is pretty flimsy.

[CopperBezel]

I'm definitely not interested in arguing with you, was just pointing out one of the more unambiguous hints there.

Edited December 29, 2019 by CopperBezel

[NuclearCoffeePot]

Alright Peeps, don't argue to much, we are presenting ideas not competing over who's is best, who is wrong, who is right, in the end this is all conceptual, nobody is wrong, nobody is right-

Here are some things I have to say before I update the main Post 

15 hours ago, CopperBezel said:

Enthrall is just ... both thematically and in gameplay terms, I don't know why it's there. Mind control is an Orokin thing, not a Sentient thing.

Yes...and no- We have actually seen eidolons take control of someone, wanna guess who, rev, litereally in his quest is quoted as being a mask for the eidolon- he used himself to hold back the Eidolon but in the end was puppeteer-ed into exiting and letting it pull itself out.- Second- The reason it is there is yes, his orignial vampire theme, but consider that thralls are to Revenant what vomvy's are to eidolons, the problem is that they aren't vomvalst's so it makes no sense-

 

4 hours ago, CopperBezel said:

Check the name of her alt helmet and consider that it's not gore she draws on, it's blood....

4 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

It’s pretty easy to surmount from other frames and the names DE picks for stuff that simply going off the name of a cosmetic to argue a frames theme is pretty flimsy.

 

None of Garuda's abilities actually use gore, she drains blood, heals from blood, make's blood mirrors, blood and knife projectiles, procs bleed effects- she doesn't string out organs across the battlefield she stabs people and uses the drained blood for her abilities- 1- stab an enemy, turn their BLOOD into a shield and projectile 2-BLOOD altar- stab an enemy, drain blood for healing 3-BLOOD letting- stab yourself, damage returns energy 4- Creates knives that seek enemies and stab them, proccing BLEED effects

5 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

His 4 actually makes the most sense. Eidolons fire lasers. Danse Macabre is Revenant firing out a bunch of lasers, it also has an offensive version of the sentient damage adaptation.

Also, outside of Danse Macabre the rest of Revenants abilities are garbage, so he’s pretty much the worst frame gameplay wise.

1st part-agree

second part- Revenant can still be used in higher level content because he gets free damage immunity, his 3 restores mesmer stacks btw- and his 4 damage adapts to enemy weakness- in terms of the worst frame for gameplay that can easily go to other frames like Hydroid for being boring, Titania for being mostly useless, and Nyx for old/stale and underwhelming mechanics- Yes his mechanics are sloppy, but his gameplay is not the worst

5 hours ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

I have to agree with GearsMatrix, the design of rev is completely off. Skill 1-3 has nothing to do with being a reverent or eidolon. Skill 4, ballerina dance has nothing to do with anything. The design of this skill feels almost like a prank by DE. In terms of game play he is not bad, but aesthetically he is a disaster. 

Aesthetically yes he is a disaster- Lasers are something sentients use all the time, there are 2 eidolon attacks that use them(not counting ropalysts)- and batalysts also fire lasers

1-3 abilities- more so- Mesmer skin is sort of ment to be Rev;s synovia type ability but it is mechanically compeletely off- Thralls are ment to be what vomvalysts are to eidolons but they fail miserably Reave is kinda like a vomvy dash but that's the end of it- it was always tied to the vampire theme since a classic vampire ability was to shapeshift into mist and other things

 

You all have made fair points and I am grateful for your feedback- my next post will update the original source with 2 ideas- one that changes not much and another that totally revamps him for the eidolon theme

 

Sidenote- He wasn't always an eidolon infused frame, perhaps orignially they decided he was best for keeping eidolons at bay because he was a vampire and he could continue fighting as long as he needed because he could leach health from the eidolon, and use mind control to weaken the eidolons mind

-Try and keep the infighting to a minimum- I do not want these threads to be taken down because of it, I've seen it happen before, I dont want it happening again, I won't name names but I know some here were involved in prior argument related takedowns- Just try not to argue

Edited December 29, 2019 by NuclearCoffeePot

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

Alright Peeps, don't argue to much, we are presenting ideas not competing over who's is best, who is wrong, who is right, in the end this is all conceptual, nobody is wrong, nobody is right-

Here are some things I have to say before I update the main Post 

Yes...and no- We have actually seen eidolons take control of someone, wanna guess who, rev, litereally in his quest is quoted as being a mask for the eidolon- he used himself to hold back the Eidolon but in the end was puppeteer-ed into exiting and letting it pull itself out.- Second- The reason it is there is yes, his orignial vampire theme, but consider that thralls are to Revenant what vomvy's are to eidolons, the problem is that they aren't vomvalst's so it makes no sense-

 

 

None of Garuda's abilities actually use gore, she drains blood, heals from blood, make's blood mirrors, blood and knife projectiles, procs bleed effects- she doesn't string out organs across the battlefield she stabs people and uses the drained blood for her abilities- 1- stab an enemy, turn their BLOOD into a shield and projectile 2-BLOOD altar- stab an enemy, drain blood for healing 3-BLOOD letting- stab yourself, damage returns energy 4- Creates knives that seek enemies and stab them, proccing BLEED effects

1st part-agree

second part- Revenant can still be used in higher level content because he gets free damage immunity, his 3 restores mesmer stacks btw- and his 4 damage adapts to enemy weakness- in terms of the worst frame for gameplay that can easily go to other frames like Hydroid for being boring, Titania for being mostly useless, and Nyx for old/stale and underwhelming mechanics- Yes his mechanics are sloppy, but his gameplay is not the worst

Aesthetically yes he is a disaster- Lasers are something sentients use all the time, there are 2 eidolon attacks that use them(not counting ropalysts)- and batalysts also fire lasers

1-3 abilities- more so- Mesmer skin is sort of ment to be Rev;s synovia type ability but it is mechanically compeletely off- Thralls are ment to be what vomvalysts are to eidolons but they fail miserably Reave is kinda like a vomvy dash but that's the end of it- it was always tied to the vampire theme since a classic vampire ability was to shapeshift into mist and other things

 

You all have made fair points and I am grateful for your feedback- my next post will update the original source with 2 ideas- one that changes not much and another that totally revamps him for the eidolon theme

 

Sidenote- He wasn't always an eidolon infused frame, perhaps orignially they decided he was best for keeping eidolons at bay because he was a vampire and he could continue fighting as long as he needed because he could leach health from the eidolon, and use mind control to weaken the eidolons mind

-Try and keep the infighting to a minimum- I do not want these threads to be taken down because of it, I've seen it happen before, I dont want it happening again, I won't name names but I know some here were involved in prior argument related takedowns- Just try not to argue

The Eidolons did not mind control Revenant. He got to comfortable being around them and forgot about how dangerous they were and they took advantage of it and dragged him down into the sentient dimension.

Vombulysts are not Thralls. They don’t need to be mind controlled by the Teralyst to work with it. They just work with it because they’re already on the same side. 

Blood is part of gore. Half her deal is slash procs and slash shreds enemies to ribbons.

Wrong. Reave does not restore Mesmer stacks. Reaving Thralls does. There’s a difference. Also, yes Revenant can technically survive longer than other tank frames, but he’s practically useless in content that’s not excessively long endurance runs because those frames severely outpace and outperform him. And the fact that he’s only useful when you get to enemy levels that are up in the thousands is even more against Revenants favor because DE doesn’t want to support that kind of play. It’s the whole reason they dropped Void Towers in favor of relics. Revenant is literally in a game that wants nothing to do with him.

Nyx is just as bad as Revenant. Titanias at least has a practical use of being able to kill Eidolons with her 4 and Hydroid has a place in farming squads with his augment. Revenant has literally no practical use.

Mesmer skin is nothing like Synovias. If it was actually representative of them then he’d only have 4-6 charges and a lot of health in between those charges. Not 15 that get torn through like wet tissue. As stated before Thralls are nothing like Vombulysts. Throwing a symbol on their head that looks like one doesn’t immediately make them like vombulysts. DE covered up the wall of mist that Reave was with the Vombulysts dash. They didn’t change the mechanics or anything. Revenants 1-3 are literally just vampire powers that they painted over with Eidolon design.

And there’s the old arguement “Maybe he was a vampire before he was captured by the Eidolons”. If he WAS a vampire and DE had literally zero intention of putting any kind of Eidolons abilities on him. Then what was the point of giving him a backstory where he is literally corrupted by Eidolons energy for thousands of years? If they wanted to make a vampire themed frame that’s fine, but they can’t make a frame who’s lore is tied to Eidolons and appearance is reminiscent of Eidolons and be like “That’s a vampire”.

[NuclearCoffeePot]

1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

The Eidolons did not mind control Revenant. He got to comfortable being around them and forgot about how dangerous they were and they took advantage of it and dragged him down into the sentient dimension.

I was not refering to him being dragged down, at the end of the Mask of the Revenant quest we see that the Eidolon is controling Revenant into attacking you, a fellow tenno, Nakak specifically says, "It's become a mask for, some kind of eidolon"-

2 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Vombulysts are not Thralls. They don’t need to be mind controlled by the Teralyst to work with it. They just work with it because they’re already on the same side. 

When saying thralls are to rev as vomvulysts are to eidolon I was obviously not saying it in a literal sense, Eidolons use Thralls as distractions and to heal themselves when they are weakened, Revenant uses them for aggro and to heal himself when he is weakened

4 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

rong. Reave does not restore Mesmer stacks. Reaving Thralls does. There’s a difference.

Correct- I did not include this but my point still stands, Reave can restore mesmer stacks, if it dashes through thralls

4 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Blood is part of gore. Half her deal is slash procs and slash shreds enemies to ribbons.

Also correct, IDK why we are arguing about this in a rev post tho- IM just not bringing it up again 🙂

5 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Also, yes Revenant can technically survive longer than other tank frames, but he’s practically useless in content that’s not excessively long endurance runs because those frames severely outpace and outperform him

Which can be said for other frames- And the fact that he can proves he is not inherently bad as you say, he can outperform tanks in both endurance and damage

6 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Nyx is just as bad as Revenant. Titanias at least has a practical use of being able to kill Eidolons with her 4 and Hydroid has a place in farming squads with his augment. Revenant has literally no practical use.

Yes, and thats my point-I love titania but her only good ability is 4- spellbind is wonky, tribute is weak, lantern is innefective at best

and hydroid, while he surves a purpose when he is using an augment is boring to play efficiently, puddle play and occasional casts of 4 are not interactive gameplay

7 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Mesmer skin is nothing like Synovias. If it was actually representative of them then he’d only have 4-6 charges and a lot of health in between those charges. Not 15 that get torn through like wet tissue. As stated before Thralls are nothing like Vombulysts. Throwing a symbol on their head that looks like one doesn’t immediately make them like vombulysts. DE covered up the wall of mist that Reave was with the Vombulysts dash. They didn’t change the mechanics or anything. Revenants 1-3 are literally just vampire powers that they painted over with Eidolon design.

They are not synovia, but there intent as an eidolon power is there. A power to make his actual health untargetable, thats synovia outer covering, but they can't make it immune to all damage save Tau like normal synovia cause normal enemies don't deal that, and if it was duration it would just be another Iron skin

9 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

And there’s the old arguement “Maybe he was a vampire before he was captured by the Eidolons”. If he WAS a vampire and DE had literally zero intention of putting any kind of Eidolons abilities on him. Then what was the point of giving him a backstory where he is literally corrupted by Eidolons energy for thousands of years? If they wanted to make a vampire themed frame that’s fine, but they can’t make a frame who’s lore is tied to Eidolons and appearance is reminiscent of Eidolons and be like “That’s a vampire”.

-I did not state he was a vampire because of eidolons, i stated he was a vampire before the eidolon took over since that was the best frame for the job, he wouldnt need to be replaced ever and was least likely to die- For the second bit- your totally right- the reason they had was that, "Hey, plains of Eidolon are dropping and it wouldn't make much sense to release a vampire frame at the same time, lets make him eidolon, and then they rushed to change him and thats why his Eidolon link is just poorly masked Vampire abilities- Also people had been calling for a sentient frame for quite a bit- It wasn't a logical decision, it was a rushed one- thats why

[NuclearCoffeePot]

14 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

The Eidolons did not mind control Revenant. He got to comfortable being around them and forgot about how dangerous they were and they took advantage of it and dragged him down into the sentient dimension.

Vombulysts are not Thralls. They don’t need to be mind controlled by the Teralyst to work with it. They just work with it because they’re already on the same side. 

Blood is part of gore. Half her deal is slash procs and slash shreds enemies to ribbons.

Wrong. Reave does not restore Mesmer stacks. Reaving Thralls does. There’s a difference. Also, yes Revenant can technically survive longer than other tank frames, but he’s practically useless in content that’s not excessively long endurance runs because those frames severely outpace and outperform him. And the fact that he’s only useful when you get to enemy levels that are up in the thousands is even more against Revenants favor because DE doesn’t want to support that kind of play. It’s the whole reason they dropped Void Towers in favor of relics. Revenant is literally in a game that wants nothing to do with him.

Nyx is just as bad as Revenant. Titanias at least has a practical use of being able to kill Eidolons with her 4 and Hydroid has a place in farming squads with his augment. Revenant has literally no practical use.

Mesmer skin is nothing like Synovias. If it was actually representative of them then he’d only have 4-6 charges and a lot of health in between those charges. Not 15 that get torn through like wet tissue. As stated before Thralls are nothing like Vombulysts. Throwing a symbol on their head that looks like one doesn’t immediately make them like vombulysts. DE covered up the wall of mist that Reave was with the Vombulysts dash. They didn’t change the mechanics or anything. Revenants 1-3 are literally just vampire powers that they painted over with Eidolon design.

And there’s the old arguement “Maybe he was a vampire before he was captured by the Eidolons”. If he WAS a vampire and DE had literally zero intention of putting any kind of Eidolons abilities on him. Then what was the point of giving him a backstory where he is literally corrupted by Eidolons energy for thousands of years? If they wanted to make a vampire themed frame that’s fine, but they can’t make a frame who’s lore is tied to Eidolons and appearance is reminiscent of Eidolons and be like “That’s a vampire”.

Also did you notice what I said at the beginning, just wanted to clarify I don't really want to argue cause I don;t want to have this post stopped as has happened in the past because of SOME people who refuse to listen to other players and give constructive criticism rather then just flat refusal- I'd rather hear what you have to say about the main post that I updated rather then a post I made replying to everyone's comments and saying try not to argue 🙂

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by NuclearCoffeePot

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

44 minutes ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

I was not refering to him being dragged down, at the end of the Mask of the Revenant quest we see that the Eidolon is controling Revenant into attacking you, a fellow tenno, Nakak specifically says, "It's become a mask for, some kind of eidolon"-

When saying thralls are to rev as vomvulysts are to eidolon I was obviously not saying it in a literal sense, Eidolons use Thralls as distractions and to heal themselves when they are weakened, Revenant uses them for aggro and to heal himself when he is weakened

Correct- I did not include this but my point still stands, Reave can restore mesmer stacks, if it dashes through thralls

Also correct, IDK why we are arguing about this in a rev post tho- IM just not bringing it up again 🙂

Which can be said for other frames- And the fact that he can proves he is not inherently bad as you say, he can outperform tanks in both endurance and damage

Yes, and thats my point-I love titania but her only good ability is 4- spellbind is wonky, tribute is weak, lantern is innefective at best

and hydroid, while he surves a purpose when he is using an augment is boring to play efficiently, puddle play and occasional casts of 4 are not interactive gameplay

They are not synovia, but there intent as an eidolon power is there. A power to make his actual health untargetable, thats synovia outer covering, but they can't make it immune to all damage save Tau like normal synovia cause normal enemies don't deal that, and if it was duration it would just be another Iron skin

-I did not state he was a vampire because of eidolons, i stated he was a vampire before the eidolon took over since that was the best frame for the job, he wouldnt need to be replaced ever and was least likely to die- For the second bit- your totally right- the reason they had was that, "Hey, plains of Eidolon are dropping and it wouldn't make much sense to release a vampire frame at the same time, lets make him eidolon, and then they rushed to change him and thats why his Eidolon link is just poorly masked Vampire abilities- Also people had been calling for a sentient frame for quite a bit- It wasn't a logical decision, it was a rushed one- thats why

Yeah, that quote was signifying that Revenants been corrupted by the Eidolons energy, effectively becoming one in mind and body. Not being controlled by one.

Thralls are not Vombulysts.

No other frame has literally zero reason for existing. They all atleast have one use (except Nyx).

Mesmer Skin has literally nothing to do with Eidolons. In the devstream it was described as a representation of how Vampires mesmerize/hypnotize their victims.

I’m going to clarify this as best as I can. What was the point of DE creating Revenants backstory about him being corrupted by Eidolons energy if they had zero intention of having his powers represent that and instead make a vampire frame. Despite the fact that Eidolons have absolutely nothing to do with vampires.

The reason why Revenant is a vampire is because they let Rebecca lead his development. So despite the fact that Revenants original concept art being literally labeled as “Eidolon frame” she wanted a vampire and completely disregarded Revenants lore and appearance just so she could have a vampire frame. The reason why he has 1 singular Eidolon related ability with Danse Macabre is because after his reveal Steve said that the frame that looks like an Eidolon needs to actually have Eidolon powers.

And if you don’t want this to devolve into an arguement then stop trying to debate my points with faulty logic.

[NuclearCoffeePot]

12 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Thralls are not Vombulysts.

Correct-my point still stands- They aren't but they act like- Im pushing that they be replaced anyway- look at the main post, it has been edited

12 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

No other frame has literally zero reason for existing. They all atleast have one use (except Nyx).

My problem with this statement is that you have already said he can survive longer then tanks- that is a reason for existing, if we are talking lorewise all frames have a purpose, killing sentients, if we are talking mechanically that is what we are trying to fix here

14 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Mesmer Skin has literally nothing to do with Eidolons. In the devstream it was described as a representation of how Vampires mesmerize/hypnotize their victims.

I will cede to you that it has little to no thematic connection- I refer to it;s purpose not it's function in my quote- and yes- that is also why I change it in my second Idea concept in the main post- look at it

15 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I’m going to clarify this as best as I can. What was the point of DE creating Revenants backstory about him being corrupted by Eidolons energy if they had zero intention of having his powers represent that and instead make a vampire frame. Despite the fact that Eidolons have absolutely nothing to do with vampires.

There is none-I won't argue that there was- It was poor decision making on part of the DEV's

16 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

The reason why Revenant is a vampire is because they let Rebecca lead his development. So despite the fact that Revenants original concept art being literally labeled as “Eidolon frame” she wanted a vampire and completely disregarded Revenants lore and appearance just so she could have a vampire frame. The reason why he has 1 singular Eidolon related ability with Danse Macabre is because after his reveal Steve said that the frame that looks like an Eidolon needs to actually have Eidolon powers.

Correct

16 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

And if you don’t want this to devolve into an arguement then stop trying to debate my points with faulty logic.

I have agreed with most of your points and provided reasoning, the point of this entire thread as with all of my threads is to post my own ideas, gather feedback, edit them, repeat until I create an Idea that most people like-You may conclude it is faulty logic- okay- the reason I argue is because I can accept criticism in posts, and that is why I edit the main posts(Please look at it)- however I can not accept criticism in my threads that are not constructive, it is a common theme in your posts to call someone wrong but give little to no insightful examples of how you would make it, rendering your criticism ignorable at best as it provides nothing to the argument save a negative voice, and intolerable at worst as you seem needlessly condescending and rude to other people in the forums- If you call my logic faulty, fine, but I'm here to listen to your ideas, not you repeatedly saying the words wrong and faulty, please provide a constructive response as to what you want from revenant beyond thematic changes, give examples as others have- and as I said before, please refer back to the opening post- I have edited it with the old idea summarized and tucked in a quote, and the new ideas in their own box, they are more thematically aligned, and I would hope that as my most active poster you would have something to say about it

-Seeya Soon, NCP- 🙂

 

[NuclearCoffeePot]

On 2019-12-28 at 8:02 PM, Madway7 said:

My idea for a new passive (in a rework that would keep him mostly the same) would be to give him an amount of strength based on his shield capacity. Say, 20% for reg shield, 50 when at maxed overshields. 

That would certainly help make his dm thrall synergy be actually useful-

On 2019-12-28 at 8:02 PM, Madway7 said:

So how would I change it (if I could)? I would make it a Mirage ball that always follows him. (thats the basics of it although I'm still working out balance issues which would come from being able to shoot weapons and move around freely)

This sounds like a badass augment, he doesn't have one currently- Might use this in an updated post 🙂 thx

[nslay]

22 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

And the fact that he’s only useful when you get to enemy levels that are up in the thousands is even more against Revenants favor because DE doesn’t want to support that kind of play.

The fact that he scales amazingly well means that harder content DE throws at us (i.e. Railjack) is no problem for him. And that "amazing" Danse Macabre starts to show its non-scalability in Railjack. I think you need, what... 5-6 spins to kill an Exo Officer with it (that's a normal unit, the beefier equivalent of Corrupted Heavy Gunner x10)? You need at least 2-3 spins for the rest of those beefy Exo units. Danse Macabre is really not very good even if it's thematically more appropriate for Revenant.

Exo units can even take 2-3 red crit head shots from Kuva Chakkhurr. This is definitely good content for Revenant! And we also already know that he works great for Liches too. Newer players tend to complain about those annoying Liches. And because he only needs basic mods (no augments to be good!), a new player can take him through level 5 Lich content and kill level 5 Liches however they want (whether they want to use Revenant as a beefy weapons platform or use his Danse Macabre or Enthrall+Reave is entirely up to them!).

So how might you use Revenant's synergies in a typical Railjack scenario? Board a Crewship, cast Mesmer Skin, Enthrall some units, run to and kill the captain, Enthrall+Reave the beefy Exo Officer, Danse Macabre the rest, snipe the gunners with Kuva Chakkhurr (1-3 shots needed! Beefy dudes!), hack the console and then Danse Macabre the reactor. That's all 4 skills used to capture and blow up a Crewship and kill all the enemies with "fancy" synergies to boot. Aside of theme issues, there's nothing wrong with his kit when enemies get tough.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, nslay said:

The fact that he scales amazingly well means that harder content DE throws at us (i.e. Railjack) is no problem for him. And that "amazing" Danse Macabre starts to show its non-scalability in Railjack. I think you need, what... 5-6 spins to kill an Exo Officer with it (that's a normal unit, the beefier equivalent of Corrupted Heavy Gunner x10)? You need at least 2-3 spins for the rest of those beefy Exo units. Danse Macabre is really not very good even if it's thematically more appropriate for Revenant.

Exo units can even take 2-3 red crit head shots from Kuva Chakkhurr. This is definitely good content for Revenant! And we also already know that he works great for Liches too. Newer players tend to complain about those annoying Liches. And because he only needs basic mods (no augments to be good!), a new player can take him through level 5 Lich content and kill level 5 Liches however they want (whether they want to use Revenant as a beefy weapons platform or use his Danse Macabre or Enthrall+Reave is entirely up to them!).

So how might you use Revenant's synergies in a typical Railjack scenario? Board a Crewship, cast Mesmer Skin, Enthrall some units, run to and kill the captain, Enthrall+Reave the beefy Exo Officer, Danse Macabre the rest, snipe the gunners with Kuva Chakkhurr (1-3 shots needed! Beefy dudes!), hack the console and then Danse Macabre the reactor. That's all 4 skills used to capture and blow up a Crewship and kill all the enemies with "fancy" synergies to boot. Aside of theme issues, there's nothing wrong with his kit when enemies get tough.

Grendels the better option for dealing with Railjack enemies. Swallow them up, wait for armor to strip, spit them out, move on as toxin proc kills them. Can even get back energy off you stand and let them shoot you while they’re dying.

Edited December 30, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301