Revenant Discussion

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

I actually like Revenants kit. Thematic issues aside there isn't much wrong with him. Most of what he needs I'd consider to be QoL updates. The major thing I think needs looking at is his value of killing thralls.

[CopperBezel]

30 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Grendels the better option for dealing with Railjack enemies. Swallow them up, wait for armor to strip, spit them out, move on as toxin proc kills them. Can even get back energy off you stand and let them shoot you while you’re dying.

Eh, the majority of frames have some way of dealing with "enter a room full of Grineer, hack a console, destroy an object, and kill three enemies in chairs without dying." For me with Nova, it's the usual Null Star DR and Molecular Prime debuff, a Helios with fire and viral proc spam, and a big crit sword.

Edited December 30, 2019 by CopperBezel

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

I actually like Revenants kit. Thematic issues aside there isn't much wrong with him. Most of what he needs I'd consider to be QoL updates. The major thing I think needs looking at is his value of killing thralls.

He needs a rework. A complete rework. They can keep Danse Macabre if they’re feeling lazy but his 1-3 and passive need to go.

[Andele3025]

35 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

I actually like Revenants kit. Thematic issues aside there isn't much wrong with him. Most of what he needs I'd consider to be QoL updates. The major thing I think needs looking at is his value of killing thralls.

Personally id make it so that his 1 jizz fountain-ed or hit infected thralls keep infecting more of allowing the thralls to spread as long as at least 1 is around where recasting the 1 on a infected enemy refreshes all durations of it and so that his 4 doesnt destory the jizz fountains, but instead each time a thrall is hit, it spawns a short duration one in their place (also turn the jizz fountains into see-through versions of the sky lazors of the ediolons).

[NuclearCoffeePot]

Alrighty peeps, IM very thankful for your feedback and I'll post a dedicated thread specifically for a complete rework of Revenants kit within the next 24 hours- Ill leave a link in the opening post when it's up- thanks for your feedbcak- Ill make this thread for non-drastic changes that way we can keep it from getting to cluttered or a Drastic vs non-drastic changes argument thread- See yall soon

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

He needs a rework. A complete rework. They can keep Danse Macabre if they’re feeling lazy but his 1-3 and passive need to go.

Ive not got the desire to go down this road with you. Agree to disagree. 

1 hour ago, Andele3025 said:

Personally id make it so that his 1 jizz fountain-ed or hit infected thralls keep infecting more of allowing the thralls to spread as long as at least 1 is around where recasting the 1 on a infected enemy refreshes all durations of it and so that his 4 doesnt destory the jizz fountains, but instead each time a thrall is hit, it spawns a short duration one in their place (also turn the jizz fountains into see-through versions of the sky lazors of the ediolons).

Personally I've always wanted the explosion of the pillars to trigger a wave of healing for him and his allies. Whether the explosion removes the pillars or not I'm unsure. It's been awhile since I made suggestions to improve the kit. 

I really do wish he had a way to make a group of thralls at once. 

[nslay]

3 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

He needs a rework. A complete rework. They can keep Danse Macabre if they’re feeling lazy but his 1-3 and passive need to go.

A while back, a poster remarked about how Revenant wasn't originally a sentient/Eidolon frame until becoming trapped with the Eidolon. What are your thoughts about the very original form of Revenant? Does being trapped with Eidolon necessarily mean all of his skills are replaced?

I really do wonder what DE will do with Revenant Prime... Technically Revenant Prime should be the Warframe prior to it being trapped with the Eidolon! This could very well turn out to be an unconventional Primed Warframe with some different abilities if DE follows the lore (which they probably won't).

[IceColdHawk]

3 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

He needs a rework. A complete rework.

No, u.

Though i think i can see what you mean. Being able to stay invincible, sweep enemies away and turn them into dust in a 360° radius and even being very mobile and fast while doing that can make other frames look like toys. Oh and then he's also able to somewhat copy what Nyx can do...yea i guess we gotta tone him down a bit to not make him stand out too much.

Edited December 31, 2019 by IceColdHawk

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

25 minutes ago, nslay said:

A while back, a poster remarked about how Revenant wasn't originally a sentient/Eidolon frame until becoming trapped with the Eidolon. What are your thoughts about the very original form of Revenant? Does being trapped with Eidolon necessarily mean all of his skills are replaced?

It doesn’t make any sense. What was the point of DE introducing the idea of a frame that is corrupted by Eidolons energy if they had literally zero intention of having it’s abilities reflect that and instead making a frame that has vampire powers without absolutely no justification for those powers when the lore doesn’t make sense. If DE wanted to make a vampire theme Warframe then they shouldn’t have both his lore and appearance reference Eidolons. Why do I keep having to explain this. It’s not f***ing rocket science. The lore doesn’t connect to the characters powers. IT’S NOT THAT DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND!

Edited December 31, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

11 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

No, u.

Though i think i can see what you mean. Being able to stay invincible, sweep enemies away and turn them into dust in a 360° radius and even being very mobile and fast while doing that can make other frames look like toys. Oh and then he's also able to somewhat copy what Nyx can do...yea i guess we gotta tone him down a bit to not make him stand out too much.

Half the frames in the game do whatever Revenant does better. And even still frames that don’t do what he does so well that what they do makes them infinitely better than Revenant.

Edited December 31, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[Madway7]

11 hours ago, nslay said:

A while back, a poster remarked about how Revenant wasn't originally a sentient/Eidolon frame until becoming trapped with the Eidolon. What are your thoughts about the very original form of Revenant? Does being trapped with Eidolon necessarily mean all of his skills are replaced?

I know this wasn't meant for me but I feel like this point needs to keep being made.

 

Assuming both you and them are referring to his quest.

 

It was made AFTER Revenant was completed, within about a week they made all the elements of the quest by using assets they had or were working on at the time. At first they claimed that he wasn't coming with a quest, then the next devstream they said he would come with a "mini quest".

Why? Probably because people asked for it. 

 

And I'd be fine with the quest as a lore explanation if it wasn't made after the fact to use as a justification for why his powers and theme clash for the most part.

 

11 hours ago, nslay said:

I really do wonder what DE will do with Revenant Prime... Technically Revenant Prime should be the Warframe prior to it being trapped with the Eidolon! This could very well turn out to be an unconventional Primed Warframe with some different abilities if DE follows the lore (which they probably won't).

Looks wise? Maybe. I mean look at Valkyr Prime, according to the lore she should be based on the gersemi skin, but instead she is more based on the regular one.

But in general there are primes that look very different than their regular counterparts

 

Abilities wise? No, they're probably not going to make the frame different just for lore consistency.

Edited December 31, 2019 by Madway7

[NuclearCoffeePot]

14 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Half the frames in the game do whatever Revenant does better. And even still frames that don’t do what he does so well that what they do makes them infinitely better than Revenant.

Being worse then some frames is not justification, his poor theme following is but the fact that he may be less effective then other frames, every frame has someone better then them at something, that doesn't mean every frame needs a rework. And as far as I know there aren't any other frames who can adapt their damage to enemy weakness on the fly. Chroma and chromatic blade exist but they are both only base elemental type, and are decided BEFORE a mission-

14 hours ago, nslay said:

A while back, a poster remarked about how Revenant wasn't originally a sentient/Eidolon frame until becoming trapped with the Eidolon. What are your thoughts about the very original form of Revenant? Does being trapped with Eidolon necessarily mean all of his skills are replaced?

I really do wonder what DE will do with Revenant Prime... Technically Revenant Prime should be the Warframe prior to it being trapped with the Eidolon! This could very well turn out to be an unconventional Primed Warframe with some different abilities if DE follows the lore (which they probably won't).

They won't give him a prime thats different, they might rework him before that happens or if they actually wanted to do something creative give people the option to remove the eidolon's effect, mabye splitting him into 2 frames, a pure eidolon, and his original form-

As for his original form, A vampire isn't far fetched, if we are talking about who can keep an eidolon trapped for thousands of years someone capable of leaching away health constantly would certainly be the top choice- plus there are vampire kavats on the plains- if we consider his job as a vampiric warden he might have used his own abilities to keep the eidolon there while his minions the cats roam the plains, keeping people away and feeding, probably returning what they feed to revenant to keep him strong

14 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

It doesn’t make any sense. What was the point of DE introducing the idea of a frame that is corrupted by Eidolons energy if they had literally zero intention of having it’s abilities reflect that and instead making a frame that has vampire powers without absolutely no justification for those powers when the lore doesn’t make sense. If DE wanted to make a vampire theme Warframe then they shouldn’t have both his lore and appearance reference Eidolons. Why do I keep having to explain this. It’s not f***ing rocket science. The lore doesn’t connect to the characters powers. IT’S NOT THAT DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND!

Must I really reiterate this AGAIN- the point of this thread isn't to debate about what went wrong in his development or talk about how dumb DE was, fact is they did screw up his theme. This is a post where we discuss Ideas for how he could be changed, please contribute some ideas instead of just arguing with other posters in a "I'm right your not and your opinions don't matter" fight.

 

17 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Personally I've always wanted the explosion of the pillars to trigger a wave of healing for him and his allies. Whether the explosion removes the pillars or not I'm unsure. It's been awhile since I made suggestions to improve the kit. 

I really do wish he had a way to make a group of thralls at once. 

The synergy would be off, it's great on paper but since most of the time you won't take any damage at all it is only helpful for allies- As for making a group at once, Enthrall spreads to enemies fast especially if you pick the right enemy, napalms and bombards for aoe, hyeka and drak masters cause you also take control of their companions- rather then make a group at once being able to collect them together at will would be nice, currently they wander around and attack things until there aren't any enemies, mabye if reave could tp thralls near you during the cast delay, that way you can group them all with you-

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

Being worse then some frames is not justification, his poor theme following is but the fact that he may be less effective then other frames

Literally every frame that’s not Nyx is better than Revenant. He is the literal bottom of the barrel. That’s full justification for a rework.

[kwlingo]

On 2019-12-27 at 11:41 PM, NuclearCoffeePot said:

There are a number of frames who require rework- Titania for overall blech is probably top of the list and I would love to see her reworked, then there are frames like frost and nyx who have mechanics that are old and there is no reason to pick them over other frames, Hydroid is good but his gameplay is not very interactive and boring if you play him efficiently, then there is revenant- sloppy mechanic's, strange thematic implementation, and some synergy problems put him at number 2 on my list.

Lots of these frame are useless when you have frames that take their strongest asset away like CC or killing one enemy at a time compared to a Nuke frame. Frost, Nyx, Titania and many others are not needed if you want to kill off an entire room. The only time these abilities are needed when the enemy level starts getting into the level 120+ when nukers take longer to scale their ability. This is when those frames can start to have a few shinning moments. But then at this level even Frost bubble will be needed to spam also. lol At least confusion with Nyx still works. On star chart levels room clears will always trump the rest of the frames unless you just want to run a support like Trinity to know you will at least be engaged in replenishing energy and health.

I did see a youtube video on the new End Game Titania because of all the damage reduction in air mods now can get up to 90% + add adaptation will make her super tankie.

Edited December 31, 2019 by kwlingo

[(XBOX)Red Dough Boy]

On 2019-12-28 at 11:01 PM, CopperBezel said:

Reave has a nice tie into the Vombulysts's ghost form, and a mobility power with healing is a handy thing to have, kind of a perfect panic button. To me, that's the one bit of his kit on the most solid ground conceptually and I'd hate for him to lose it.

I still don't know why he has a damage mitigation ability that doesn't work more like Sentient adaptation or the mod. I guess those things aren't very interesting, but it seems like a freebie thematically. 

Danse Macabre is just so very silly looking, and the limited movement only makes it look worse. X /

Enthrall is just ... both thematically and in gameplay terms, I don't know why it's there. Mind control is an Orokin thing, not a Sentient thing.

Not exactly mind control but you can see Sentients using non Sentients to do their bidding, the Stalker for example. Maybe instead of controlling enemies he could summon Vomvalysts, and if they kill enemies they make more from spirits. I like the ability to turn enemies against each other and make a small force of my own, but I can agree that it doesn't fit thematically and could use a change. 

 

I've mostly kept Revenant because with green energy he reminds me of Ermac. 

Edited December 31, 2019 by (XB1)Red Dough Boy

[selig_fay]

4 часа назад, kwlingo сказал:

I did see a youtube video on the new End Game Titania because of all the damage reduction in air mods now can get up to 90% + add adaptation will make her super tankie.

You don't need to be a Titania to do this. Each frame can have a build to use the Aviator, remaining in the air for about 15 seconds. I use Moa and it gives me another 5 seconds. I'm using this on hildryn and wisp now. And Wisp looks very cool with this mechanics.

Спойлер

 

 

[NuclearCoffeePot]

8 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Literally every frame that’s not Nyx is better than Revenant. He is the literal bottom of the barrel. That’s full justification for a rework.

Thematically yes but when you lok at what he has he is certainly not, free damage immunity, health and shield vampirism, and a damage source that adapts to the enemies weakness, he isn't the best but he's certainly not bottom of the barrel- Besides, I'm not saying he doesn't need one, just that he wouldnt get one for being bad, unless they nerf him again, he would get a rework for his thematic problems. Not that hard to understand the point I'm making.

 

-Again I must reiterate, if you are leaving comments, make them constructive, share your ideas please-

 

[NuclearCoffeePot]

8 hours ago, kwlingo said:

Lots of these frame are useless when you have frames that take their strongest asset away like CC or killing one enemy at a time compared to a Nuke frame. Frost, Nyx, Titania and many others are not needed if you want to kill off an entire room. The only time these abilities are needed when the enemy level starts getting into the level 120+ when nukers take longer to scale their ability. This is when those frames can start to have a few shinning moments. But then at this level even Frost bubble will be needed to spam also. lol At least confusion with Nyx still works. On star chart levels room clears will always trump the rest of the frames unless you just want to run a support like Trinity to know you will at least be engaged in replenishing energy and health.

I did see a youtube video on the new End Game Titania because of all the damage reduction in air mods now can get up to 90% + add adaptation will make her super tankie.

What you are saying is true, however- Take Titania, yes, with the right build her dex pixia can annihalate single targets and she can both live long and prosper, but what of the rest of her kit, weak and wonky cc and some weak buffs aside from thorns and mabye dust- she has no real options aside from a Razorwing build, and it's not fun being stuck in one role like that- Yes they can do it and they can be better options then other frame's because nuke damage fall off in most cases, but they get shoehorned into using the same few abilities while the rest of their kit falls away- with other frame's i don;t need to use other abilities but I CAN and it's fine, with frames like Rev, Nyx, Titania you have to build one path, you could build for duration with Rev but what will that do, you lose your damage and tankiness and you don't get much in exchange save 7 enemies who walk around doing no damage and only serving as a distraction for enemies and a reave that lasts longer- They aren't uselss, as long as you build them in one way, don't and you suffer

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

43 minutes ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

Thematically yes but when you lok at what he has he is certainly not, free damage immunity, health and shield vampirism, and a damage source that adapts to the enemies weakness, he isn't the best but he's certainly not bottom of the barrel

Didn’t I already explain why all those thing are bad because their done so poorly? If not then I explained them somewhere else numerous times. Like even now you just described a problem with his kit. Reave gives him back health and Shields, but Mesmer skin (as bad as it is) is his primary defense ability and does not require health or Shields, so why does Revenant have to rely on the synergy of two abilities to replenish is primary defense? That’s bad design, and that’s only one bad design out of the countless others that are present on Revenant. He is the absolute worst frame in the game.

Edited January 1, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[kwlingo]

6 hours ago, zhellon said:

 

  Hide contents

 

 

Dude this is so funny! lol I do this with Wisp because she becomes invincible in air but use a ranged melee and you will be getting stealth kill like a boss. I recommend Redeemer, Sarpa, or another option would be Ohma with Primed reach and Spring Loaded Blade. Just don't jump too high lol

[selig_fay]

2 часа назад, kwlingo сказал:

Dude this is so funny! lol I do this with Wisp because she becomes invincible in air but use a ranged melee and you will be getting stealth kill like a boss. I recommend Redeemer, Sarpa, or another option would be Ohma with Primed reach and Spring Loaded Blade. Just don't jump too high lol

Yes, it's very powerful. I think it's something DE didn't think about when changed melee. Now I think Titania could get a regular melee in razorwing.

Спойлер

 

I tried it with hildryn and dark dagger, it's just incredible. Slash? Toxin? Meh, I have an overshield all the time and a 10 meter attack radius.

Edited January 1, 2020 by zhellon

[kwlingo]

1 hour ago, zhellon said:

Yes, it's very powerful. I think it's something DE didn't think about when changed melee. Now I think Titania could get a regular melee in razorwing.

I tried it with hildryn and dark dagger, it's just incredible. Slash? Toxin? Meh, I have an overshield all the time and a 10 meter attack radius.

lol neat idea with Hyldryn. I wonder if Wisp with Zenistar with CO would be a fun option? Since the dic cant proc status and CC, when the blade after disc eject can proc non-elementals like slash. Then after disc comes back I would think the combo multiplier would be much higher on the next cast. Might finally make Zenistar ok again.