Soo are we like god killers?

[SneakyErvin]

15 hours ago, DroopingPuppy said:

I don't think so. We are talking about the metaphor, NOT the divinity. The world of Warframe doesn't have the concept of the divinty and godhood at all, unlike D&D where the pantheons of gods are actually exists, are participate in the flow of the universe, give the power to the devout followers, and the essence of the god is an actual difference between the god and the mortal. Then why we need to talking about the godhood in here, the origin system? It is just out of the topic.

Perhaps, the man in the wall show the hint that the entity can be a real god or something similar, but that's all. At first there is no concept of godhood at all in here.

There is godhood and divinity in WF. The Orokin were seen as gods by lesser tribes of free people. The Warframes have been seen as gods by lesser tribes of free people. The Corpus has a church dedicated to the void. Kuva is considered something divine aswell.

Not to mention the Orokin's obsession with old earth cultures and the mysticism of the divine. Hence why we have several deites represented among frames and equipment throughout the game. From weapons like Gram, frames like Wukong and Loki to houses like Vidar. Not to mention the Grineer having massive ties to old hibernian culture, with Fomorian and Firbolg ships.

So yeah, divinity and its mysticism is very strong in the WF universe even though they may not straight up worship old gods. So we really need to get down to the actual power of things if we want to define them as gods or not when divinity is already so present and applied to so many different parts of the Sol system already. Since it is from the perspective of the Tenno that we need to decide if there is something that would clock in as godlike or of godhood status to them, that is the only way to get down to if we are god-killers, gods or neither.

It really doesnt matter what the lesser tribes and colonies think, because they are unable to understand the real science behind things like the frames, the channeling of void power, the infested, the sentient and so on. It is like if my old cat saw me as a god since I could magically summon delicious treats from the fridge. That wouldnt make me a god since I'm just your avarage human. The cat however doesnt understand that full concept, because he doesnt understand how a fridge works or that cat food is pre-made elsewhere. He thinks I did all of it.

[HugintheCrow]

It's important to realize that gameplay is not equal to lore.

We don't really lose missions ingame, we DO lose a lot lore-wise.

Yes, you can go into a mission on Mercury and slaughter hundreds of Grineer soldiers and kill Vor easily, or go to Saturn and defeat Sargas Ruk like it's nothing.

In lore however, it's pretty much confirmed these same guys have killed several warframes, and defeated dozens of tenno before.

There is a reason why e.g. Tyl Regor isn't afraid of us, like he should be if we really were as powerful as gameplay would suggest. He believes he can fight us on equal grounds, and that's because, story-wise, he CAN.

I mean, the super easy pushover fight with Alad V and his Zanuka? Lore-wise, Zanuka is as powerful as a Warframe, so that's how powerful we are canonically, equal to a dog that can shoot freeze bombs and missiles, and jump a lot.

[(PSN)ITS_TH3GOD]

The whole concept of what is a god and whats not is different based on who it is tho, i mean your definition does make sense but it changes throughout different platforms, for instance in the dceu darkseid is considered a "new god" yet he can be hurt and bleed, while on the other hand in marvel, a being as powerful as thanos(which is pretty much the marvel version of DC's darkseid) isnt called or considered a "god", in destiny 1 and 2 the vex(which are robots) have their leaders referred to as a god by a lot, in the WF universe the sentients call themselves "gods" yet we kill them due to harnessing the very power that is their weakness (void energy) we dont have enough proof to defy their claim at being a god due to us nevr going to the tau system but i dont think d.e would just throw god claims in the game without any actual reason

[(PSN)ITS_TH3GOD]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

There is godhood and divinity in WF. The Orokin were seen as gods by lesser tribes of free people. The Warframes have been seen as gods by lesser tribes of free people. The Corpus has a church dedicated to the void. Kuva is considered something divine aswell.

Not to mention the Orokin's obsession with old earth cultures and the mysticism of the divine. Hence why we have several deites represented among frames and equipment throughout the game. From weapons like Gram, frames like Wukong and Loki to houses like Vidar. Not to mention the Grineer having massive ties to old hibernian culture, with Fomorian and Firbolg ships.

So yeah, divinity and its mysticism is very strong in the WF universe even though they may not straight up worship old gods. So we really need to get down to the actual power of things if we want to define them as gods or not when divinity is already so present and applied to so many different parts of the Sol system already. Since it is from the perspective of the Tenno that we need to decide if there is something that would clock in as godlike or of godhood status to them, that is the only way to get down to if we are god-killers, gods or neither.

It really doesnt matter what the lesser tribes and colonies think, because they are unable to understand the real science behind things like the frames, the channeling of void power, the infested, the sentient and so on. It is like if my old cat saw me as a god since I could magically summon delicious treats from the fridge. That wouldnt make me a god since I'm just your avarage human. The cat however doesnt understand that full concept, because he doesnt understand how a fridge works or that cat food is pre-made elsewhere. He thinks I did all of it.

Except that nothing we do is scientific, we didnt get out powers from science, we got it from an actual godly being sooo science dont have any concept in that

[SneakyErvin]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)ITS_TH3GOD said:

Except that nothing we do is scientific, we didnt get out powers from science, we got it from an actual godly being sooo science dont have any concept in that

We have no idea if it is a god. It can be a highly advanced alien that we just dont really understand. Just as the void can be pure power that have given the tenno the abilities due to simple exposure. Much like how gamma radiation turned Banner into Hulk, whatever the void is made up of mutated the tenno due to prolonged exposure. Exposure that the children could survive but that also drove the adults mad.

[Itsmez]

5 hours ago, (PS4)ITS_TH3GOD said:

The whole concept of what is a god and whats not is different based on who it is tho, i mean your definition does make sense but it changes throughout different platforms, for instance in the dceu darkseid is considered a "new god" yet he can be hurt and bleed, while on the other hand in marvel, a being as powerful as thanos(which is pretty much the marvel version of DC's darkseid) isnt called or considered a "god", in destiny 1 and 2 the vex(which are robots) have their leaders referred to as a god by a lot, in the WF universe the sentients call themselves "gods" yet we kill them due to harnessing the very power that is their weakness (void energy) we dont have enough proof to defy their claim at being a god due to us nevr going to the tau system but i dont think d.e would just throw god claims in the game without any actual reason

Even if the sentinents were considered as gods in tau system it would not mean that we were god killers. Orokin created sentinents and as far as i know tenno existed before them, i just dont see something that was created after you as a god. They could be considered as gods in other system, but not in our system, for us they were just badly designed tools basically

[AegisSiege]

So, it really just depends on how you define the word "God".

If by "God" you mean an omnipotent and/or omniscient being that created the Universe, then no, we are not.

If you define "god" like Patricia Tannis does in Borderlands 3 does  when she asks "What is God but the most powerful Creature in the Universe?" Then Yes, we are, and in the process we've become gods ourselves. 

[(PSN)ITS_TH3GOD]

8 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

We have no idea if it is a god. It can be a highly advanced alien that we just dont really understand. Just as the void can be pure power that have given the tenno the abilities due to simple exposure. Much like how gamma radiation turned Banner into Hulk, whatever the void is made up of mutated the tenno due to prolonged exposure. Exposure that the children could survive but that also drove the adults mad.

Hmm no i dont think the void is that simple..the man in the wall IS the void(a manifestation at the very least) cuz i remember it say that either we owe it or it created us after we drank the kuva or denied it..etc etc..and plus after the ten zero accident the orokin did actual try to send more kids into the void, but none turned out lik us soo ya

[(PSN)ITS_TH3GOD]

2 hours ago, Itsmez said:

Even if the sentinents were considered as gods in tau system it would not mean that we were god killers. Orokin created sentinents and as far as i know tenno existed before them, i just dont see something that was created after you as a god. They could be considered as gods in other system, but not in our system, for us they were just badly designed tools basically

No, im quite sure the sentients existed way before us actually..cause the orokin sent them to terraform the tau system(which means it could be decades and so on) and our ship(the zariman ten-0) was suppose to jump to the tau system but lost connection when it reached the void aka the void anomaly..so yep they were there b4 us.

[(PSN)ITS_TH3GOD]

1 hour ago, AegisSiege said:

So, it really just depends on how you define the word "God".

If by "God" you mean an omnipotent and/or omniscient being that created the Universe, then no, we are not.

If you define "god" like Patricia Tannis does in Borderlands 3 does  when she asks "What is God but the most powerful Creature in the Universe?" Then Yes, we are, and in the process we've become gods ourselves. 

I meant god as in the most powerful being(after the void/man in the wall)

[DroopingPuppy]

4 hours ago, Itsmez said:

Even if the sentinents were considered as gods in tau system it would not mean that we were god killers. Orokin created sentinents and as far as i know tenno existed before them, i just dont see something that was created after you as a god. They could be considered as gods in other system, but not in our system, for us they were just badly designed tools basically

Even if something was created by the other, it can be called as a god as long as it meets some conditions, I think. But, we don't know the society of the Sentients for now. Perhaps, some of them can be worshipped by the gods in Sentient comminity? That's the only way to be called as the god to them.

Edited December 31, 2019 by DroopingPuppy

[DroopingPuppy]

11 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

There is godhood and divinity in WF. The Orokin were seen as gods by lesser tribes of free people. The Warframes have been seen as gods by lesser tribes of free people. The Corpus has a church dedicated to the void. Kuva is considered something divine aswell.

Not to mention the Orokin's obsession with old earth cultures and the mysticism of the divine. Hence why we have several deites represented among frames and equipment throughout the game. From weapons like Gram, frames like Wukong and Loki to houses like Vidar. Not to mention the Grineer having massive ties to old hibernian culture, with Fomorian and Firbolg ships.

So yeah, divinity and its mysticism is very strong in the WF universe even though they may not straight up worship old gods. So we really need to get down to the actual power of things if we want to define them as gods or not when divinity is already so present and applied to so many different parts of the Sol system already. Since it is from the perspective of the Tenno that we need to decide if there is something that would clock in as godlike or of godhood status to them, that is the only way to get down to if we are god-killers, gods or neither.

It really doesnt matter what the lesser tribes and colonies think, because they are unable to understand the real science behind things like the frames, the channeling of void power, the infested, the sentient and so on. It is like if my old cat saw me as a god since I could magically summon delicious treats from the fridge. That wouldnt make me a god since I'm just your avarage human. The cat however doesnt understand that full concept, because he doesnt understand how a fridge works or that cat food is pre-made elsewhere. He thinks I did all of it.

It is just the belief, rather than the real divinity.

Perhaps, Orokins, and Tennos are close to the power of the gods, for mysterious void power may comes from the gods if such thing is actually exists in the origin system. Maybe the man in the wall can be a real god? Is void power a kind of manifest divine essence? But we are not sure about that, and the existence of the divinity is not the topic in the world either - see the quests.

D&D is different; there are the real gods, each one have their own domain, they may intevene to the material plane and the mortals live in there and gives the power to their followers. The godhood, the essence of the god is the root of the gods, and the worthy mortals may claim the godhood and ascend to the rank of the gods. The gods and their powers are flow in the world and it is one of the root of the world as well. Players are easily witness the minor miracles by the followers of the gods, may have the revelation from the god itself, or can become the god if the player can prove themselves. In such world the concept of god is 'who have the essence of the god', for it is familiar to the denizens of the world.

[Itsmez]

10 hours ago, DroopingPuppy said:

Even if something was created by the other, it can be called as a god as long as it meets some conditions, I think. But, we don't know the society of the Sentients for now. Perhaps, some of them can be worshipped by the gods in Sentient comminity? That's the only way to be called as the god to them.

Yeah but something created essnetially by us, as a tool doesnt make mutch sense to me that they would be god to us

[SneakyErvin]

13 hours ago, (PS4)ITS_TH3GOD said:

Hmm no i dont think the void is that simple..the man in the wall IS the void(a manifestation at the very least) cuz i remember it say that either we owe it or it created us after we drank the kuva or denied it..etc etc..and plus after the ten zero accident the orokin did actual try to send more kids into the void, but none turned out lik us soo ya

I dont think he is the void. He is according to the chains of harrow quest an ancient entity, but if he was the actual void it wouldnt make sense, because there would be no way to explain the spread of the void throughout the system nor the dangers of the void if Wally was it. The reason for that is because Wally is kept inline by Rell while the void still rages on across the whole system. The Chains of Harrow quest also refers to the thing that Rell keeps in check as the thing between Void and Dust.

Wally however may be connected to the void much like the tenno are now and be the cause of the incident on the Ten-0, effectively being the one who gave us our powers.

[SneakyErvin]

12 hours ago, DroopingPuppy said:

It is just the belief, rather than the real divinity.

Perhaps, Orokins, and Tennos are close to the power of the gods, for mysterious void power may comes from the gods if such thing is actually exists in the origin system. Maybe the man in the wall can be a real god? Is void power a kind of manifest divine essence? But we are not sure about that, and the existence of the divinity is not the topic in the world either - see the quests.

D&D is different; there are the real gods, each one have their own domain, they may intevene to the material plane and the mortals live in there and gives the power to their followers. The godhood, the essence of the god is the root of the gods, and the worthy mortals may claim the godhood and ascend to the rank of the gods. The gods and their powers are flow in the world and it is one of the root of the world as well. Players are easily witness the minor miracles by the followers of the gods, may have the revelation from the god itself, or can become the god if the player can prove themselves. In such world the concept of god is 'who have the essence of the god', for it is familiar to the denizens of the world.

Different stories abide by different rules.

Since WF is set in a future version of our universe we need to consider what we see or have seen as gods throughout time, what is needed in order for us to call something a god. No the dude on the playing field or that guy running really really fast isnt a god even though we may refer to him as godly. We dont generally worship people as gods anymore, we like to throw around the word godly, godlike and so on however and use it on the most trivial and silliest of things. A riven for instance isnt actually an item of divinity, even though players love to claim they have god roll rivens.

So talking about just the metaphor, which the OP didnt in the first place, is 100% pointless in this case. We need to look at the fantastical powers and the ideas of old to come to a conclussion if something is godlike or a god in the WF universe since it is based on our own, where gods have never been a thing that has walked among us (that we know of atleast) or where miracles and the presence of gods arent near the same level as of those in fantasy settings. So we need to keep in mind that old mundane divinity of our history and add all the technological advancements of the WF universe into the mixer before we ever get to a point where we can see if there is something that could classify as something of a godlike status.

Currently there arent anything really to be seen as gods in WF, not by the tenno atleast, which is the only thing that matters really.If the sentients that are highly advanced even for the WF timeline would show up here in 2020 we would see them as nothing but aliens, aside from a few insane people with cardboard suits claiming them to be gods. That is because we live in a very advanced technological age. This age is still stoneage compared to the WF era. However, if those sentients were to land somewhere in the period of ancient greece, egypt, among vikings/celts/germanians they would most deffinently be seen as gods. That is because those tribes of people wouldnt have grown up with sci-fi books/movies, nano-technology or weapons that can wipe out whole cities. Nor would they ever have experienced insterstellar travel or seen the surface of distant planets through the camera's eye.

[MysticDragonMage]

i think at some point in time after the old war, the Lotus executed an "order 66" on the Orokin. so yeah, we basically killed every "higher power" there was in the known universe; including the Sentient and Orokin who only saw themselves gods.

[(PSN)ITS_TH3GOD]

9 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I dont think he is the void. He is according to the chains of harrow quest an ancient entity, but if he was the actual void it wouldnt make sense, because there would be no way to explain the spread of the void throughout the system nor the dangers of the void if Wally was it. The reason for that is because Wally is kept inline by Rell while the void still rages on across the whole system. The Chains of Harrow quest also refers to the thing that Rell keeps in check as the thing between Void and Dust.

Wally however may be connected to the void much like the tenno are now and be the cause of the incident on the Ten-0, effectively being the one who gave us our powers.

He could still be the void itself even if as u said he was sealed by harrow, its pretty much the same thing that is currently happening in the marvel universe(idk if you're a comic book guy or follow their storylines) but for instance knull is the god of the sembiotes but he was sealed by said sembiotes, that didnt stop the sembiotes from existing and still work as usual.the same thing applies for the void, the man in the wall is the physical form of the void, remember he gave us power and drove the adults mad, it was then that harrow/knell sealed it..then the orokin tried sending multiple other ships with kids to get them powers but none prevailed cuz he was sealed.

[(PSN)ITS_TH3GOD]

5 hours ago, MysticDragonMage said:

i think at some point in time after the old war, the Lotus executed an "order 66" on the Orokin. so yeah, we basically killed every "higher power" there was in the known universe; including the Sentient and Orokin who only saw themselves gods.

But the orokin were only god cuz they were immortal but they didnt possess any actual power, eveen tho the lore of warframe is confusing tho, cuz it said ordan carris(known as the strong of his time) stroke em down and they only laughed and kept getting up which brings the question of how powerful they were that they didnt care and even defeated their strongest soldier lik he was nothing

[SneakyErvin]

15 hours ago, (PS4)ITS_TH3GOD said:

He could still be the void itself even if as u said he was sealed by harrow, its pretty much the same thing that is currently happening in the marvel universe(idk if you're a comic book guy or follow their storylines) but for instance knull is the god of the sembiotes but he was sealed by said sembiotes, that didnt stop the sembiotes from existing and still work as usual.the same thing applies for the void, the man in the wall is the physical form of the void, remember he gave us power and drove the adults mad, it was then that harrow/knell sealed it..then the orokin tried sending multiple other ships with kids to get them powers but none prevailed cuz he was sealed.

No the story clearly states he is between Void and Dust, so he is not the void. At most he is a creature living in the void. If he was the void then fissures would either have stopped when Rell locked him down or grown stronger/disappeared completely when he was freed. He is very much helping the Tenno now, so if he was the void it would only be explainable that the void cracks throughout the system would stop with him being freed, since he wouldnt want to hurt the tenno because he needs them alive. Or if he was really evil and the void, then the void cracks would be even more present and dangerous to the whole system, including the tenno.

Rell also didnt lock Wally up until after the Old War, so he would still have been the void when new experiments were sent through. That is because the Harrow in the quest is not a prime, but only a normal Tenno version of the frame. And we know now that during the old war the primes were the frames they used, that is seen in the latest story video. And we know the frames prior to the primes had no tenno tied to them until after they revolted. And the tenno frames seems to have been introduced at the very end off the old war, when the tenno built them as needed to set out to free the colonies across the system, as can be heard in the Leverian records regarding Grendel and Gauss. Rell also seems to have had a direct connection to the Red Veil, which also probably didnt exsist until the post orokin era.

[(PSN)ITS_TH3GOD]

Hmm u sure? I could've sworn that it said rell sealed him either during or b4 the old war.