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Can the New War be avoided?


(PSN)zeratul____12
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I think we could, the Sentients waged the first War to destroy the Orokin and the Tenno just happened to be fighting for them at the time, but now with the Orokin destroyed by our hands we could try and negotiate peace with them.

We even have a trump card, since we know where they can get a vast quantity of Kuva for them. Which in Garas story reveals that Kuva can restore their reproductive systems. So we give them the location of the Grineer Queens asteroid base along with assistance retrieving the Kuva, we can also kill the Grinner Queens, who also happen to be body swapped Orokin. Then we forge a truce with them. 

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1 minute ago, (PS4)zeratul____12 said:

I think we could, the Sentients waged the first War to destroy the Orokin and the Tenno just happened to be fighting for them at the time, but now with the Orokin destroyed by our hands we could try and negotiate peace with them.

We even have a trump card, since we know where they can get a vast quantity of Kuva for them. Which in Garas story reveals that Kuva can restore their reproductive systems. So we give them the location of the Grineer Queens asteroid base along with assistance retrieving the Kuva, we can also kill the Grinner Queens, who also happen to be body swapped Orokin. Then we forge a truce with them. 

That would ve the worst choice possible in a tactical stimulation..think about this 1) we've been betrayed by the lotus 2) the sentient already knew that we had no choice but to fight for the orokin yet the dont care n still want to kill us 3) they dont care about peace, if they did, they wouldnt have tried to kill the peaceful people of cetus 4) giving them the location of the kuva would be as if we've shot ourselves in a foot cause they'd just increase their number and outmatch us and lastly 5) we're at an extreme disandvage where we currently stand, we dont have any allies cause we've made an enemy out of every factions when we were blindly following the lotus, the corpus have already aligned themselves with the sentients via Alad V, they've ballas(meaning they have knowledge of orokin tech which we dont) AND they've the lotus whom already know all our weak point and the system...only way we'd win is if the void itself(man in the wall) decide to get involved..other than that there's no way we can win.

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I somehow want to give a normal/smart response... but even after 5 minutes i still wonder what is wrong with you.

It's the new content release and your problem is that IF anyone would do X then Y would happen?
Do you, in the end of 2019 and movies with more plot holes than real plot, really have nothing else on your mind than "well... in theory the story doesnt make sense... because IT COULD BE AVOIDED"?

I mean in real world history... is there only stuff that could've not been avoided? The whole argument/thought makes me REALLY wonder what is wrong you you

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15 minutes ago, WingR84 said:

I somehow want to give a normal/smart response... but even after 5 minutes i still wonder what is wrong with you.

It's the new content release and your problem is that IF anyone would do X then Y would happen?
Do you, in the end of 2019 and movies with more plot holes than real plot, really have nothing else on your mind than "well... in theory the story doesnt make sense... because IT COULD BE AVOIDED"?

I mean in real world history... is there only stuff that could've not been avoided? The whole argument/thought makes me REALLY wonder what is wrong you you

Gee everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, doesnt mean anything is wrong with him. We've different type of people in the world, we've the realist(the type that based their actions n belief on fact and realism) and then we've the hopeful(the ones that no matter how bad things are and how clear it is, they'll always remain hopeful) doesnt mean either side is wrong. Matter of fact this is a game, anything can happen, tho i dont see how we could negotiate with the sentients(as i stated above on my 1st reply) but hey its a fantasy world soo.

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30 minutes ago, (PS4)zeratul____12 said:

I think we could, the Sentients waged the first War to destroy the Orokin and the Tenno just happened to be fighting for them at the time, but now with the Orokin destroyed by our hands we could try and negotiate peace with them.

We even have a trump card, since we know where they can get a vast quantity of Kuva for them. Which in Garas story reveals that Kuva can restore their reproductive systems. So we give them the location of the Grineer Queens asteroid base along with assistance retrieving the Kuva, we can also kill the Grinner Queens, who also happen to be body swapped Orokin. Then we forge a truce with them. 

It's possible that we could end the War before it fully started, but likely? Not very. Even without the Orokin in rule humanity as a whole is seen as a threat by the Sentients to their way of life, we display just as much destructive tendencies, preferences to warfare, obsessions with class, it wasn't even the Orokin directly that killed off the sentients the first bout around but the tenno. To them humanity is every bit as much a menace to the health of the world as our Orokin predecessors were, and to be frank given the state of system after their fall the Sentients aren't wholly wrong to draw such a conclusion. Everything we display validates their notion that we are a threat no matter what, and that our annihilation is the safest way to preserve their newfound civilization in their own system, combine that with the already stoked flames of the previous war, and our long standing possession of it seems their monarchs child, and its a steep mountain to climb towards even finding a way to pacify the Sentient faction (or their leadership) far enough to even convince them to hear us out on a matter of peaceful negotiation. 

Sure we could use kuva to bargain with their compliance but even that is dubious at best since it's a forceful partnership through veiled threat really of never letting them recover which can breed resentment which can lead to eventual rebellion/betrayal just like Ballas which is just delaying the war more than anything.

Frankly our greatest hope of avoiding the war (or more likely ending it before it has gone too far) is through the Lotus, who is the only sentient we are aware of who has spent enough time with humanity to learn to empathize with us, and understand there is more nuance to our surface level destruction than us just being a doomed species. If we could pull her back from whatever mind washing has been forced onto her, and make her a kind of voice of reason against their war effort we could have some potential sway on what is probably a heavily polarized affair and begin some kind of real reasoning with the sentient faction past just outright warfare. 

Note according to Steve the sentients have developed something akin to a religion to inform their world views which can easily as well make any negotiations more difficult since faith is hard to halt or reason with. 

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The Orokin are the ones to blame for the events of the Old War due to their desire to conquer Tau, but the Sentients have since become the aggressors by trying to invade the Origin system. The Sentient even succeeded at assassinating Orokin leadership through the Lotus, but they are still trying to take over the system.

Besides this, the Gara fragments mention Kuva, but specifically "refined Temple Kuva" developed specifically by the Unum. We can't really tell if it's the same as normal Grineer-harvested Kuva and the fragment indeed seems to imply that it is exclusive to the Unum, who is apparently a completely unique entity.

Overall it seems that even if we could just give Sentients Kuva and let them live on Tau, they'd most likely just return to the Origin system and try to conquer it again.

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4 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

It's possible that we could end the War before it fully started, but likely? Not very. Even without the Orokin in rule humanity as a whole is seen as a threat by the Sentients to their way of life, we display just as much destructive tendencies, preferences to warfare, obsessions with class, it wasn't even the Orokin directly that killed off the sentients the first bout around but the tenno. To them humanity is every bit as much a menace to the health of the world as our Orokin predecessors were, and to be frank given the state of system after their fall the Sentients aren't wholly wrong to draw such a conclusion. Everything we display validates their notion that we are a threat no matter what, and that our annihilation is the safest way to preserve their newfound civilization in their own system, combine that with the already stoked flames of the previous war, and our long standing possession of it seems their monarchs child, and its a steep mountain to climb towards even finding a way to pacify the Sentient faction (or their leadership) far enough to even convince them to hear us out on a matter of peaceful negotiation. 

Sure we could use kuva to bargain with their compliance but even that is dubious at best since it's a forceful partnership through veiled threat really of never letting them recover which can breed resentment which can lead to eventual rebellion/betrayal just like Ballas which is just delaying the war more than anything.

Frankly our greatest hope of avoiding the war (or more likely ending it before it has gone too far) is through the Lotus, who is the only sentient we are aware of who has spent enough time with humanity to learn to empathize with us, and understand there is more nuance to our surface level destruction than us just being a doomed species. If we could pull her back from whatever mind washing has been forced onto her, and make her a kind of voice of reason against their war effort we could have some potential sway on what is probably a heavily polarized affair and begin some kind of real reasoning with the sentient faction past just outright warfare. 

Note according to Steve the sentients have developed something akin to a religion to inform their world views which can easily as well make any negotiations more difficult since faith is hard to halt or reason with. 

I agree, after reading the other 2's comments it isn't realistic that the War could be avoided but as you said there is the potential to stop it from going too far, if we could get to Lotus to try and help her see reason, we might be able to avoid further bloodshed.

The other thing to consider is if we are just dealing with a small faction in the Sentient race itself, or just the first wave of troops. I am inclined to believe that we are dealing with a faction in the Sentient race since if the whole race shared the same hatred they would have continued its attack on the Origin system after the first attempt failed. Also there is cause to believe that they have no contact to Tau since they might have invaded the system once the Orokin fell and the tenno were asleep.

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29 minutes ago, (PS4)hades297youthful said:

Uh no it cannot be avoided I need to put a bullet in Natah's head she can't just use us to weaken the origin system and get away with it

weaken it to what end? it already is in a weakened state on its own with fragmented factions at constant war with a bunch of even smaller sub factions trying to survive the hot mess while also doing what they can to rebel/escape the carnage themselves. at most lotus along with us have been trying to strengthen the bottom end so that they can pull out from the top end and patch up this hot mess of constant violence and hostile rule. 

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10 minutes ago, (PS4)hades297youthful said:

The weaker something is the better it is for sentients.

Tyl regor is perfecting grineer kill him and sabotage his work.

Corpus council are working on new proxies destroy the factory.

Only the infested are necessary to curb due to their uh nature.

 

Better how? The only opposition the sentients ever had to dominating the system was the tenno, even the Orokin in their prime couldn't do anything to them, and the tide of the war only shifted once they discovered the tenno and how to weaponize them to fight back. The moment the Orokin fell and the Lotus had the tenno in stasis the system hers (and the sentients') for the taking if she so chose. Every moment of wait past that moment actually worked against Sentient favor and was wholly unnecessary as it gave the system a chance to re-stabilize and create a new order and advance their technology, which they in some ways they have. 

Sabotaging Regor's research was our choice, not the Lotus', we decided between saving Alad V or curing the grineer, we the tenno chose to save Alad V at the cost of the potential cure. It's also up for question how they would use said cure at the time to strengthen war efforts against the rest of the Origin system. 

The Proxies were a tool of mass Warfare. 

Each faction is dangerous due to their beliefs and overly hostile behavior. The Grineer want to dominate the system through violence and exert their power, the Corpus are a extreme capitalistic cult that prizes wealth over human life and do the most heinous acts in the pursuit of maintaining their wealth/power structure even if it leads to enslaving entire groups and butchering their bodies for consistent laborers (they're effectively the new orokin), and the infestation is a virus and as such believes its sole duty to spread and consume the rest of the system. 

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)hades297youthful said:

 

Exactly why they needed to be weakened. 

To normal people in the Origin system, to whom we're protecting, not the Sentients. It was already established early in my response the tenno were the only threat to the sentients. Are you saying making hostile factions towards human kind less capable of committing mass violence is a bad thing? 

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considering that Hunhow treated Alad V as orokin in Second Dream's quest and the fact that Natah already know about the condition of the Origin's System, if the sentients wagers for war:

  • It won't be for territory, since they have Tau system already and they didn't mentioned about any troubles there... except for certain civilization in Origin's System that is threating them since forever
  • Sentients have reasons to hate our side, since "we" (not the tenno) captured their kin and used her against themselves
  • they have thought about going into war since... the beginning? they knew, since the moment they gained some sentience, that Orokin will attempt to go to Tau system, sentients being subsevient or not, because of the main's objective of Orokin: they are searching for new place to live, since they own home was in ruins, resource-wise

 

The sentients simply throw their entire fleet of ships to go straight to Origin System for "Decades?"... too long that simply changing their beliefs from war to peace without our first clash would be unthinkable, even if its the best option

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you cannot reason with machines. might as well politely ask a T-1000 to not cut you in half.

we killed a LOT of Sentients, which is all the more devastating when you consider that they cannot reproduce, something which they are still more than a little miffed about. they can also tell themselves they are defending the Tau System, since all the Orokin would have done is expand there and ruin the place like they did with the Origin System. for the Sentient's perspective, there is next to no good reason for letting the rest of us live.

The New War is inevitable, and we must be ready.

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as I've mentioned on the 1st answer, we cannot have peace and this new war cannot be won,there's just no way for us to win it. It doesnt matter whether the sentient faction we're about to go to war with is small or not, we are NOT prepared for a full blown war...all these time all we've ever done were infiltration, sabotage, exterminate,spy aka gorilla warfare against weak factions(grineer and corpus) both factions which i honestly believe we could destroy whole if we truly wanted to do so, the sentients are the only ones that truly poses a threat to us. They're fully prepared and have had the lotus infiltrate behind enemy lines, so they've every single bit of info against us while we dont know anything about them.

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