Jump to content
Jade Shadows: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

2020 needs to be the Year of Rework


SeekerErebus
 Share

Recommended Posts

Steve, Rebecca, and the Rest of the DE team

I say this wanting New War as much as anyone, but if you take all of 2020 to fix and improve what's in the game currently and we get New War in 2021, I'd be happy with the improvements. If you're interested, here's the things that I think need to be properly reworked, which might actually take a year to do.

Damage and Hit Points scaling is completely busted. Empyrean's changes to enemies base values show that you know this, and are trying to work around it with no luck. Enemy Health Scaling needs to be a flatter curve. A current lvl 80 could be a future lvl 150, that kinda thing. Armor shouldn't have scaling values, only base ones; non-scaling armor is much easier to keep in check, can be balanced out with relative increases to health scaling, and keeps the factions closer in relative power.

Damage output needs a rework as well. Less overkill from players. A well built weapon should super rapidly or OHK all light and most heavy non-boss enemies on the star chart, but only barely, so that going up from 40 to 50, most enemies actually take 2x as long to kill because they actually need 2x the shots or damage. Getting this right on a per-weapon basis is a huge task, especially since it needs to be built around it's strongest potential to be done properly.

Then there's rewards and star chart missions themselves. We need a rewards 3.0. So many drop tables have nothing valuable in them, so many mission types aren't worth running. A thorough pass through all of the tables to make them comparable in reward to disruption would be a huge improvement to the game. Additionally, if on the missions themselves you could pick a difficulty, say the normal node difficulty, a hard mode that bumps up the levels, and a challenging mode that throws a random sortie modifier at you while bumping them even higher. With hard and challenging having greater and rarer rewards behind them, that would make for some interesting times.

That's just the first things I've thought of. There are a whole lot of things that you made, threw in, and promptly forgot about, that are part of the core game as you make your way through quest lines. If you take the time to work on these, really work on them, you could fix a lot of the things that are causing players to leave. And since at this point, most future content is being made for veterans of the game due to just how many prereqs there are now, vets are who you need to be worried about leaving.

Thank you for making a game worth 1k hours of my time.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not gonna hold out for damage system and reward reworks, as those are monumental tasks. I do however expect them to have the following donw at some point in 2020:

- fix Railjack to a much more playable state than it currently is and rework systems where necessary.

- deliver at least the very first part of The New War

- Corpus/Infested Liches and improvements to the Lich system.

that's the stuff I reckon we need on all fronts, and for stuff I'd like personally:

- Fortuna remaster; new rewards, better environments and that 3rd orb mother fight.

- Nightwave season 3, preferably Corpus themed.

- some expansion to railjack, once it's more stable, and hopefully including an Archwing rework.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let's face it, we'll get;

- 7 new explosive weapons because C R E A T I V I T Y

- 1-2 half-assed 20 minute quests

- New open world with even more "fun" ressources and multiple layers of grind

- Probably horses. That Duviri Paradox trailer had the Tenno ride the horse-thing. I like horses. I like this.

- Disappointment

- RNG on top of RNG with a piece of RNG for your RNG sponsored by RNGesus and cursed by Lootcifer.

- bugs

- Probably some else we neither want or need but get anyway because content drought.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

hace 6 minutos, o0Despair0o dijo:

Let's face it, we'll get;

- 7 new explosive weapons because C R E A T I V I T Y

- 1-2 half-assed 20 minute quests

- New open world with even more "fun" ressources and multiple layers of grind

- Probably horses. That Duviri Paradox trailer had the Tenno ride the horse-thing. I like horses. I like this.

- Disappointment

- RNG on top of RNG with a piece of RNG for your RNG sponsored by RNGesus and cursed by Lootcifer.

- bugs

- Probably some else we neither want or need but get anyway because content drought.

Don't forget about new non-finished gameplay mechanics

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm. I might about to disappoint you here, but all indications are DE have already decided that 2020 will be the year of Empyrean and The New War. I predict that a full 60% or more of the new content will be Empyrean expansions, phases of The New War, or both. Even the Corpus Ship remaster looks like it's going to come with the Corpus portion of Empyrean.

Maybe they'll slip in some of the rework you want into some of the updates, but I think DE's main focus will be the two big items above.

Edited by KnossosTNC
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is this a thread for suggesting changes to the game? If it is, there are a few things I would like to be done to the game, but if not I'm sorry, I didn't know where to go and I wouldn't mind if you can redirect me (or tell me where to address this directly to DE if possible).

In any case, here's what I'd like, personally, I don't know if others think the same way:

When running missions in the Orb Vallis, half of the missions are defense (defend a special Coildrive or an excavator), but those kind of missions are the hardest to do Solo without Frost or a warframe that can put up barriers. Troops can fire at the objectives from over a 300 meters away, and if the objective is left alone then others that are closer can destroy it, making it almost impossible to get to the bonus objective (it would be possible if we could use the archwing but the troops destroy it every 5 seconds with missiles). The dropships can attack said objectives too, and they deal massive damage while being hard to kill in higher levels.

This all could be remedied with one or two tweaks: Force the enemies to come closer to the objective before they attack, make the dropships not attack the objectives, or make enemies stop sendind missiles to force us out of the archwing.

Again, I'm sorry if this is not the place to discuss this stuff. And I know this whole thing is easier when in a full squad, but when connection problems run rampant it's difficult to play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, FALG31 said:

When running missions in the Orb Vallis, half of the missions are defense (defend a special Coildrive or an excavator), but those kind of missions are the hardest to do Solo without Frost or a warframe that can put up barriers. Troops can fire at the objectives from over a 300 meters away, and if the objective is left alone then others that are closer can destroy it, making it almost impossible to get to the bonus objective (it would be possible if we could use the archwing but the troops destroy it every 5 seconds with missiles). The dropships can attack said objectives too, and they deal massive damage while being hard to kill in higher levels.

Try Octavia. I solo Orb Vallis Bounties with bonuses no problem with her.

It's PoE Bounties and their bonuses that I would like a rework for.

Edited by KnossosTNC
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, o0Despair0o said:

Let's face it, we'll get;

- 7 new explosive weapons because C R E A T I V I T Y

- 1-2 half-assed 20 minute quests

- New open world with even more "fun" ressources and multiple layers of grind

- Probably horses. That Duviri Paradox trailer had the Tenno ride the horse-thing. I like horses. I like this.

- Disappointment

- RNG on top of RNG with a piece of RNG for your RNG sponsored by RNGesus and cursed by Lootcifer.

- bugs

- Probably some else we neither want or need but get anyway because content drought.

I like this.

 

And Warframe on Mobile.

Edited by Mikaer88
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Overall I think the goals for 2020 should be twofold, first, get Empyrean up to a semi-complete state.

Second half of the year should be focused on general balance adjustments for multiple aspects of the game, weapons, Warframes, the Lich System and likely the new player experience.

They could sprinkle in the usual new frames and weapons and maybe a quest or two (wishful thinking), but the main goals should be Empyrean and making sure the balance of the game properly meshes with Empyrean if the goal is to make that what connects the game together.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, o0Despair0o said:

Let's face it, we'll get;

- 7 new explosive weapons because C R E A T I V I T Y

- 1-2 half-assed 20 minute quests

- New open world with even more "fun" ressources and multiple layers of grind

- Probably horses. That Duviri Paradox trailer had the Tenno ride the horse-thing. I like horses. I like this.

- Disappointment

- RNG on top of RNG with a piece of RNG for your RNG sponsored by RNGesus and cursed by Lootcifer.

- bugs

- Probably some else we neither want or need but get anyway because content drought.

You forgot nerfs that literally no one need, and changes nothing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

emperan update looks great, tbh this is a step in the right direction.  alot of fixes were in update that makes the game noticeably different in a better way.  now how about those ship cosmetics, tbh like playing with ships more than being on ground. theyve already fixed alot and buffed plenty of things too many to make everything more exciting . now to the content part, yeah theere is too much content in game rn and this coming from a return mr 23.  someone mustve lost sleep on this update because they work day in day out, how about that captura 2.0, that something to look froward.  honestly waiting until next big reveal due 2020 wouldnt be to bad idea, there just to much stuff, it overwhelming XP😫

Link to comment
Share on other sites

if there are just two things i want from warframe 2020, it would be maturity and polish.

maturity in the case that warframe needs to figure out what it is. some say that its a power fantasy and some want it to be dark souls level of difficulty, but that is only partly what i am talking about. for example, the developers have dragged out the whole "ninjas in space" theme for the longest time, but transition from drums and temple prayers to techno and dubstep music. from sneaky and trickster-like warframes to demi-god levels of powerful warframes from varying cultures, legends, and myths. to all of my fellow weebs out there, the game is more like "FATE in space" now more than anything. i also think the game also needs a better spotlight on its morals. i think the moral of the lore is that the past can be haunting, but it does not define who you are.

polish in the case of exactly what polish means.

  • condense content in a way that it is not so confusing, scattered, or random.
    •  "oh! i can have cat companion! so the process for getting a cat companion would be similar to getting a dog, right? no? i have to scan what? WHERE!? how was i supposed to know that?!!"
  •  the game should have a more defining reward systems and not a completely different system with each content addition (depending on the content).
    • archwing gear is gated by dojo research and syndicates. it would it make more sense if archwing missions rewarded archwing blueprint gear?
  • create a new player experience that does not risk confusion or misunderstanding.
    • when new players see that they have to pay for slots that is when you've potentially lost them.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The reward tables and rewards in general in this game are a flat out joke.

Look at the Hydron (tier 3 defense) reward tables.  It's one of the highest level defense missions in the starchart if not the highest.  All the mod rewards for the first 3 reward rotations (A,A,B) are all mods you will have burned a hundred of for endo on the way to Sedna.  A mod drop in one of these rotations is worth 15 endo.  The majority of the mods you can get from C rotation are mods you'll most likely have if you can reliably go 20 waves in a defense mission of this level without a carry, and they are all easier to get elsewhere.  The endo rewards are a joke compared to time invested.  If you're on hydron it's for the exp or the relics, or both and that's why most of the other defense nodes are normally empty.  

Most of the starchart is empty (which is lovely for new players, let me tell you.) because there is nothing worthwhile in the slightest in the reward tables.  Caches in sabotage missions for anything other than Earth or Hive are outright ignored, sometimes even if a player sees them and is right next to them because there's nothing worthwhile in them.  Even when they have a nightwave for it, I run earth 3 times for a chance at a Bite, and then I start ignoring caches again.  Even the caches that people do care about often get ignored because the drops that are in them are so stupidly rare that it's not worth your time to try unless you're specifically farming for whatever it is.

Tier 3 survival nodes literally have absolute chump change level credits for the first 2 A rotations or an okayish amount of endo.  Other than relics, the rest of it is mostly useless mods or mods you'll have a dozen of and don't need again.  

There is a reason the vast majority of the starchart is empty and it is straight up because the rewards are trash.  People are in fissures, specific game modes like arbitration or ESO, or on very specific nodes.  Even when people go resource farming they go to specific nodes like dark sectors.  I watch people try over a period of DAYS to get literally anyone to play with them in defection to farm harrow or manics.  Same names in recruit, practically begging for anyone to go to these empty nodes and no one does unless they need harrow.  Why would they?  There's nothing to be gained there that you can't get somewhere else other than frustration from dealing with the AI.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think a good idea for reworking missions would be to have them give logical, and meaningful, specific rewards: 

Capture enough targets or hack enough Spy vaults, get info on a secure stash with loads of resources. Spy vaults give credit for each vault hacked making them a fair comparison to fast capture missions, possibly also a bonus when done without triggering alarms.

Defection should give a reward for each defector saved, just a small bonus initially then a big reward once a rotation is done like normal. They should be carrying items like a random relic, random resource pile, credit cache, ayatan stars etc. they are bound to be carrying something right? Why not give it to their savior?

Defend cryopod objectives get a 'consumable' ally that will gather resources for you once on the planet they awoke from (extractors 2.0) bonus is you get to pick what resource (for less in total but more of a specific one) or let them gather all of them (for more in total but less specific.) Possibly give the ally more uses the longer one stays (each 5 waves adds 1 use or a resource multiplier for example.) OR let us use that ally in survival missions to greatly boost rewards (like an extra 1-6 rewards per rotation)

Disruption is pretty balanced, scaling rewards would be nice but tbh it's a solid mode I generally don't mind doing.

Excavation missions are sort of balanced in their own way really (cryotic, and can be done faster with more effort,) I think they are reasonable but the extractors should get scaling health and attempt to prioritize being closer together.

Exterminates could give us a reason for specifically taking out enemies in that location. Such as higher resource drops per enemy for those missions. There has to be a reason we should kill a large sum of enemies on a specific node, possibly a secure stash somewhere that gives much better rewards than the current ones.

Hijack we should be able to dismantle the hijacked item, for parts and stuff, or sell it back to the faction for a big sum of credits.

Interceptions are a weird mission, standing in a spot captures it and somehow even if you have 1 tower completely under your control you can fail. I guess we are gathering information? I have no idea.

Mobile defense missions need a rework or should be removed imo. But in their current state, should give a minor reward per console then a major one when completed with all living. Also, should only be possible to fail if all the consoles die, not just a single one.

Rescue would be the same as defense but the ally can't be given a bonus to uses or resource multiplier. OR could be used to give faction reputation outside of the daily standing cap as they are 'recruited.'

Sabotage missions just need better general cache rewards. Or even just give them more caches overall, instead of 3 could be 5, or even 10. Instead of having rotations in caches, they should just be a static table regardless of how many looted. 

Survival missions are supposed to have an ally raiding a ship, so just give us more stuff later on as they delve deeper in (Scaling reward.) Possibly even give certain survival missions a cap in duration, not all of them just some specific ones (Controversial suggestion so fine with it being ignored) for the reason being, emptying out a ship will let you 'sell' it to a faction (corpus/grineer/infested/syndicates) for a lot of the clan tech resources (Detonite Injector etc. like 5-10) or for a good sum of syndicate standing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, o0Despair0o said:

Let's face it, we'll get;

- 7 new explosive weapons because C R E A T I V I T Y

- 1-2 half-assed 20 minute quests

- New open world with even more "fun" ressources and multiple layers of grind

- Probably horses. That Duviri Paradox trailer had the Tenno ride the horse-thing. I like horses. I like this.

- Disappointment

- RNG on top of RNG with a piece of RNG for your RNG sponsored by RNGesus and cursed by Lootcifer.

- bugs

- Probably some else we neither want or need but get anyway because content drought.

Couldn't have said it any better myself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, SeekerErebus said:

Steve, Rebecca, and the Rest of the DE team

I say this wanting New War as much as anyone, but if you take all of 2020 to fix and improve what's in the game currently and we get New War in 2021, I'd be happy with the improvements. If you're interested, here's the things that I think need to be properly reworked, which might actually take a year to do.

Damage and Hit Points scaling is completely busted. Empyrean's changes to enemies base values show that you know this, and are trying to work around it with no luck. Enemy Health Scaling needs to be a flatter curve. A current lvl 80 could be a future lvl 150, that kinda thing. Armor shouldn't have scaling values, only base ones; non-scaling armor is much easier to keep in check, can be balanced out with relative increases to health scaling, and keeps the factions closer in relative power.

Damage output needs a rework as well. Less overkill from players. A well built weapon should super rapidly or OHK all light and most heavy non-boss enemies on the star chart, but only barely, so that going up from 40 to 50, most enemies actually take 2x as long to kill because they actually need 2x the shots or damage. Getting this right on a per-weapon basis is a huge task, especially since it needs to be built around it's strongest potential to be done properly.

Then there's rewards and star chart missions themselves. We need a rewards 3.0. So many drop tables have nothing valuable in them, so many mission types aren't worth running. A thorough pass through all of the tables to make them comparable in reward to disruption would be a huge improvement to the game. Additionally, if on the missions themselves you could pick a difficulty, say the normal node difficulty, a hard mode that bumps up the levels, and a challenging mode that throws a random sortie modifier at you while bumping them even higher. With hard and challenging having greater and rarer rewards behind them, that would make for some interesting times.

That's just the first things I've thought of. There are a whole lot of things that you made, threw in, and promptly forgot about, that are part of the core game as you make your way through quest lines. If you take the time to work on these, really work on them, you could fix a lot of the things that are causing players to leave. And since at this point, most future content is being made for veterans of the game due to just how many prereqs there are now, vets are who you need to be worried about leaving.

Thank you for making a game worth 1k hours of my time.

I kind of wanting them to do a rewamp year for like 3 years.

Don't think they look at the game as we do honestly. Devs don't play the game as we do. They don't think as we do. In fact the last two content update kind of showing me a sad direction that they start to move the game -god hope its not the case though-. They started to be bored with the "regular" direction of the game and trying to mix the game up a bit. That shouldn't be an issue, if the new content that is different than the main game, would actually fit better.

Anyways, I would love a new, nice, intuitive and most importantly non-bugged, useful UI for years, but it just doesn't happen. 😞

The old frames need rewamp too. I was surprised that Ivara and Atlas got no rewamp really. The new frames are fantastic, divers and strong! The old ones feel weird now even though I love them.

If they start rewamping, fixing issues, like network, general lvl scaling, host migrations, frames, maps, boy I would be happy to come back to play a bit more (altough I do play a bit sometimes still).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, SeekerErebus said:

 With hard and challenging having greater and rarer rewards behind them, that would make for some interesting times.

Absolutely not. This is why difficulty levels don’t work in a game like Warframe, because players will always demand better rewards for playing at higher difficulty levels, which screws players of lower skill levels or with disabilities who simply cannot deal with the higher difficulty.

Why this mentality has so thoroughly taken multiplayer games is beyond me. Single player games don’t work that way. You don’t get stronger weapons or better enchantments just because you choose to play Dragon Age on nightmare, or Skyrim on master.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...