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lukinu_u

A few unsuspected hybrid weapons

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If we look at weapons in game, we know a few weapons are hybrid of multiple factions :

  • Battacor, Komorex, Cyanex and Ocucor which are a mix of Sentient tech with Corpus experimentations
  • Mutalist Cernos and Mutalist Quanta, which are Alad experimentations (Corpus) with infestation)
  • Seer and Twin Rogga, which are Grineer engineering with a bit of Orokin tech
  • Plague Zaws, which are Ostron manifactured, slighly infested.

But if we look at the crafting requirements, a few weapons could be hybrid too :

  • Panthera, a Tenno rifle requiring the Miter (Grineer) and Hikou (Tenno)
  • Twin Basolk, Grineer dual axes that require Atomos (Grineer) and Dual Zoren (Tenno)
  • Ripkas, Grineer claws require Dual Cleaver (Grineer) and Ankyros (Tenno)
  • Hystrix, a Tenno pistol requireing Viper (Grineer) and Bolto (Tenno)

All of these are clearly reflect to a single faction in their design and description, but are crafted craft from Tenno and Grineer weapons. So my question is, does this is intended and could have lore reasons, or does it just don't make sense at all ?

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5 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

Mutalist Cernos

as I understand it, this was a regular cernos that belonged to Inaros that was exposed to Infestation, nothing to do with the Corpus. same with Lesion (actually a Tipedo underneath) and whatever pistols the Dual Toxocysts originally were.

and where does it say anything Orokin about Twin Roggas? far as I know they're straight up grineer weapons.

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Yes, it's intended that the latter four aren't hybrid weapons. "Requisite ingredients" are based on whatever DE thinks is thematic, not on whether or not you literally build weapon Y out of weapon X

The Lession requires the Tipedo because the Lession looks like an infested Tipedo. Conversely the Knux require the Furax, but there is no implication that Tyl Regor built his personal Knux out of a Furax, just that it was the easiest way for the Tenno to reverse-engineer the Knux. In fact, the Paracecis blueprint requires a Galatine and some Ducats, but we know for a fact that is not how Ballas built his because we watch him build his and he didn't use a Galatine

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il y a 4 minutes, (PS4)robotwars7 a dit :

as I understand it, this was a regular cernos that belonged to Inaros that was exposed to Infestation, nothing to do with the Corpus. same with Lesion (actually a Tipedo underneath) and whatever pistols the Dual Toxocysts originally were.

and where does it say anything Orokin about Twin Roggas? far as I know they're straight up grineer weapons.

That's right, Inaros weapons are not from Alad experiments.
Abot Twin Roggas, nothing say they are orokin hybrid but they have a small orokin gold piece on the top.
 

il y a 6 minutes, TARINunit9 a dit :

Yes, it's intended that the latter four aren't hybrid weapons. "Requisite ingredients" are based on whatever DE thinks is thematic, not on whether or not you literally build weapon Y out of weapon X

The Lession requires the Tipedo because the Lession looks like an infested Tipedo. Conversely the Knux require the Furax, but there is no implication that Tyl Regor built his personal Knux out of a Furax, just that it was the easiest way for the Tenno to reverse-engineer the Knux. In fact, the Paracecis blueprint requires a Galatine and some Ducats, but we know for a fact that is not how Ballas built his because we watch him build his and he didn't use a Galatine

It's still weird to use existing weapon to build weapons from a precise blueprint with a space 3D printer, but it make sense. Maybe using similar weapons as a base shorten the craft time, lorewise.

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5 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Yes, it's intended that the latter four aren't hybrid weapons. "Requisite ingredients" are based on whatever DE thinks is thematic, not on whether or not you literally build weapon Y out of weapon X

The Lession requires the Tipedo because the Lession looks like an infested Tipedo. Conversely the Knux require the Furax, but there is no implication that Tyl Regor built his personal Knux out of a Furax, just that it was the easiest way for the Tenno to reverse-engineer the Knux. In fact, the Paracecis blueprint requires a Galatine and some Ducats, but we know for a fact that is not how Ballas built his because we watch him build his and he didn't use a Galatine

I second this, makes more sense that the weapons are modified from what the Tenno have on hand. Considering the foundry creates weapons from resources it's not that far fetched that it could also break down a weapon and reassemble it following a different design. Also makes it easier to build a weapon if it uses things you already have, and weapons you aren't going to use anymore. The Viper and Bolto makes perfect sense in the Hystrix, combining a high rate of fire with a weapon firing bolts that excel against armor as well as having the ability to change elements which makes it better than the other two weapons. 

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I think it's more like, the foundry breaks them down and converts their functionality into something new. 

Sort of like reverse engineering something and making something new based on what you learned. 

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2 minutes ago, Miser_able said:

I think it's more like, the foundry breaks them down and converts their functionality into something new. 

Sort of like reverse engineering something and making something new based on what you learned. 

How would this work whit Warframe, since they are "spoiler" and all.

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4 minutes ago, (PS4)Cephalon_Hope said:

How would this work whit Warframe, since they are "spoiler" and all.

It works because Warframes are clones

Excalibur Umbra dies in the opening cutscenes of Sacrifice, and we clone him to bring him back, memories and all

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24 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

It works because Warframes are clones

Excalibur Umbra dies in the opening cutscenes of Sacrifice, and we clone him to bring him back, memories and all

But how does that make sense ? So we can just make a 3D print of a bloody Infested "spoiler" together whit a way to keep its memory just from a few scans from its blown up parts ?

In all honesty the whole Foundry aspect for Warframes is just... dumb. Why not have the BPs as broken parts from a dead Warframe or something and we just fix them whit the materials needed ? I can understand Weapons as reversing the process and making us use parts of certain weapons and screw them together whit some resources to make something alike the BP (Like how we probably use Galantine parts for the Paracesis), but we it comes to Warframes it doesn't make sense, you cant MAKE a living sapient organism out of a drawing (BP) and a few resources.

Either DE changes the desc of the main BP to something like it containing the "Core" of the Warframe (and therefor being what makes it "alive") or the foundry is just another "dont think about it" concept like the Market, and how we buy whole Warframes out of it.

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22 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

It works because Warframes are clones

Excalibur Umbra dies in the opening cutscenes of Sacrifice, and we clone him to bring him back, memories and all

Also the Second Dream cutscene where Stalker has a decapitated Loki head and he mentions that they rise again. 

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1 minute ago, (PS4)Cephalon_Hope said:

you cant MAKE a living sapient organism out of a drawing (BP) and a few resources.

Well obviously you can. This is not the hill to die on, Warframe is a game where rubidium is a great metal to make spears out of and where tellurium is colored red. It's a game where a species of anteater foxes that have been dead for hundreds of years on the surface of Venus can just magically come back to life if you turn the air conditioning back on. Building clones with a 3D printer that can already make living swords is the least of your problems

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Cephalon_Hope said:

But how does that make sense ? So we can just make a 3D print of a bloody Infested "spoiler" together whit a way to keep its memory just from a few scans from its blown up parts ?

In all honesty the whole Foundry aspect for Warframes is just... dumb. Why not have the BPs as broken parts from a dead Warframe or something and we just fix them whit the materials needed ? I can understand Weapons as reversing the process and making us use parts of certain weapons to replace parts we cant get (Like how we probably use Galantine parts for the Paracesis), but we it comes to Warframes it doesn't make sense, you cant MAKE a living sapient organism out of a drawing (BP) and a few resources.

Either DE changes the desc of the main BP to something like it containing the "Core" of the Warframe (and therefor being what makes it "alive") or the foundry is just another "dont think about it" concept like the Market, and how we buy whole Warframes out of it.

At the same time we don't have the original Warframe but more of a replica, and it does take 3 days to make it signifying that it's a lot more complex. The only alternative I could see is 2 days to put the parts together, then using the back room where the Operator is to give it life. Would have to open the back room to new players though. 

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1 minute ago, TARINunit9 said:

Well obviously you can. This is not the hill to die on, Warframe is a game where rubidium is a great metal to make spears out of and where tellurium is colored red. It's a game where a species of anteater foxes that have been dead for hundreds of years on the surface of Venus can just magically come back to life if you turn the air conditioning back on. Building clones with a 3D printer that can already make living swords is the least of your problems

Well, obviously you SHOULDN'T, given that all Lisets are equipped whit a foundry (and given they are Orokin-era stealth ships and therefor Orokin made), why didn't the Orokin just make 1 Warframe and clone it over and over again ? Why infest several humans if we can just craft a clone that does the same job of being a alive golem to be controlled ? If we can do it whit Umbra via some codex/Simaris scans what enabled Ballas from making a few hundred Umbras that cant hurt him by themselves and set them lose, I mean, pretty sure the Tenno back then didn't have the mental capacity to just control a bunch of Warframes whit a serious case of PTSD.

It just doesn't make sense in terms of LORE, not exactly "reality", the animals in OV are thought to be "extinct" and by what we can speculate after capturing them is that they were just hiding/surviving and the activation of the Orokin Coolant Towers brought them out of hiding, plus, "Rubidium" is most likely something related to Warframes common ore Rubedo and not related to the IRL mineral obviously.

Specters are a thing, but using a Foundry to make Warframes and a Cephalon is just DE being lazy and not wanting to have a separate place to make them, like I said, its another "dont think about it" feature just like the Market.

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13 minutes ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

At the same time we don't have the original Warframe but more of a replica, and it does take 3 days to make it signifying that it's a lot more complex. The only alternative I could see is 2 days to put the parts together, then using the back room where the Operator is to give it life. Would have to open the back room to new players though. 

For the whole "Making a Warframe" process to make sense whit Lore, we would need to FIX (not build) parts of Warframes we find in our Adventures and then put them back together to something that would have its "memory's" (maybe the Main BP comes whit the mind of the Warframe) and therefor we would wait 3 days so that the Warframe can reconnect itself back together to its fixed parts that could just belong to another frame of the same type.

Same for Cephalon Cy, it makes sense that we researched his Location in the weave, it just doesn't make sense how we then have to build him and not fix him.

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8 minutes ago, (PS4)Cephalon_Hope said:

why didn't the Orokin just make 1 Warframe and clone it over and over again ? 

They did. Despite Ballas's flowery speach on the Prime Trailers, Warframes were mass produced to a degree:

10 minutes ago, (PS4)Cephalon_Hope said:

If we can do it whit Umbra via some codex/Simaris scans what enabled Ballas from making a few hundred Umbras that cant hurt him by themselves and set them lose

They did. Sort of. According to Silver Grove you had Titania who was offered to Ballas in order to mass produce her as Titania Prime

15 minutes ago, (PS4)Cephalon_Hope said:

I mean, pretty sure the Tenno back then didn't have the mental capacity to just control a bunch of Warframes whit a serious case of PTSD.

There is a difference between Umbras and Primes/Regulars:

Umbras were mutated humans whose bad memories were kept in sharp relief through torture, because the Orokin were idiots who think rigorous abuse makes people obedient to you. Later Warframes were more likely artificial humans who were born as adults and created by normal, well-adjusted scientists

So while my clone of Atlas probably has all his memories of blowing up that cult's asteroid base before getting lost in Eris and dieing, he probably doesn't have any memories of being tortured by evil stupid aristocrats like Excalibur does

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14 minutes ago, (PS4)Cephalon_Hope said:

Same for Cephalon Cy, it makes sense that we researched his Location in the weave, it just doesn't make sense how we then have to build him and not fix him.

I disagree with the rest of your post too, but this in particular has an obvious explanation:

You can get a free copy of Windows 10 on Pirate Bay, I'm sure, but you probably still want to build the rest of your custom PC with actual parts and not hopes and dreams. Sure you could use a Virtual Machine on your existing PC you used to torrent Windows 10 in the first place, but when you want to bring the Windows 10 with you on your new military submarine it's smarter to just have two computers, one for home and one for your submarine

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)Cephalon_Hope said:

For the whole "Making a Warframe" process to make sense whit Lore, we would need to FIX (not build) parts of Warframes we find in our Adventures and then put them back together to something that would have its "memory's" (maybe the Main BP comes whit the mind of the Warframe) and therefor we would wait 3 days so that the Warframe can reconnect itself back together to its fixed parts that could just belong to another frame of the same type.

Same for Cephalon Cy, it makes sense that we researched his Location in the weave, it just doesn't make sense how we then have to build him and not fix him.

Lore and gameplay usually conflict in most games, the market is so DE can actually make money to keep this game going so it's going to break the lore of Warframes. And like I said most of the frames we build are replications and not the original Warframe itself, with the exception of Umbra that has a quest around gathering his parts and memories, then connecting with him. While that set up would be cool it would kill profit pretty quick. 

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2 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

1.They did. Despite Ballas's flowery speach on the Prime Trailers, Warframes were mass produced to a degree:

2.They did. Sort of. According to Silver Grove you had Titania who was offered to Ballas in order to mass produce her as Titania Prime

3.There is a difference between Umbras and Primes/Regulars:

Umbras were mutated humans whose bad memories were kept in sharp relief through torture, because the Orokin were idiots who think rigorous abuse makes people obedient to you. Later Warframes were more likely artificial humans who were born as adults and created by normal, well-adjusted scientists

So while my clone of Atlas probably has all his memories of blowing up that cult's asteroid base before getting lost in Eris and dieing, he probably doesn't have any memories of being tortured by evil stupid aristocrats like Excalibur does

Proof ?

1.We know there are several normal frames, but from what we know they were also humans, as seen by a Human getting turned into a regular Excalibur Warframe on the Vitruvian, no where does it say the Orokin cloned them, plus, by Ballas words: "We took our greatest, volunteers or not", this should imply they always used humans, plus, given how the Orokin Empire is, seems fishy they would work whit anything that wasnt good, specially clones that probably by Orokin design were meant to decay.

2.Again, no proof of that, all we know is that she was told that her next project was Titania after she had done other Warframes, nothing says Titania was built to be mass produced or to be Primed.

3. Only diference is that they keep their memory's, our Warframes while being sapient carry over no memory's wen we make a new one, the whole project behind Umbra was to turn a Dax Soldier (someone bound by the oath) into a Warframe that could not disobey Ballas, and to do so it needs its memory's (So the oath still lives), plus, already explained how "artificial humans" (aka grineer) wouldn't be used on a project wen they were probably always meant to decay.

3 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

I disagree with the rest of your post too, but this in particular has an obvious explanation:

You can get a free copy of Windows 10 on Pirate Bay, I'm sure, but you probably still want to build the rest of your custom PC with actual parts and not hopes and dreams. Sure you could use a Virtual Machine on your existing PC you used to torrent Windows 10 in the first place, but when you want to bring the Windows 10 with you on your new military submarine it's smarter to just have two computers, one for home and one for your submarine

Cephalons arent simple programs, they are digitized humans, while they can be deleted its not like you can just CTRL+C & CTRL+V and boom you get a copy, from what we know,each Cephalon is unique, as there is only 1 Ordis, 1 Suda, 1 Jordas, 1 Simaris 1 Samodeus, 1 Cordylon and so on, so, there should also only be 1 Cy, one thing is Cy getting lost in the Cephalon Weave after his Railjack got rekt and Ordis finds a trace of him and we manage to find him (which is the research), another thing is BUILDING a Cephalon, you can recover data and give it a new body, but you cant make a body and it magically has data, so therefor, unless we fixed Cy by simply giving him a "mainframe" (Think thats what Cephalon Cordylon called it in one of his posts) aboard the Railjack, BUILDING a Cephalon makes just as much sense as cloning Warframes, which is none.

3 hours ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

Lore and gameplay usually conflict in most games, the market is so DE can actually make money to keep this game going so it's going to break the lore of Warframes. And like I said most of the frames we build are replications and not the original Warframe itself, with the exception of Umbra that has a quest around gathering his parts and memories, then connecting with him. While that set up would be cool it would kill profit pretty quick. 

Like you said, your "replication" theory still doesn't make sense (see above), plus, I am not complaining about the market, I am just saying that its obvious the Foundry (just like the market) is simply a "Dont question it" feature, as in it isnt linked to the game lore, like cosmetics.

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23 minutes ago, (PS4)Cephalon_Hope said:

We know there are several normal frames, but from what we know they were also humans, as seen by a Human getting turned into a regular Excalibur Warframe on the Vitruvian, no where does it say the Orokin cloned them, plus, by Ballas words: "We took our greatest, volunteers or not", this should imply they always used humans, plus, given how the Orokin Empire is, seems fishy they would work whit anything that wasnt good, specially clones that probably by Orokin design were meant to decay.

First of all, the fact that Umbra was made from a human is presented as somewhat of a plot-twist. That wouldn't make sense if it was common knowledge amongst the Tenno, which in turn, indicates that us using humans to produce new frames isn't common practice.

Even beyond that, there's both lore and in-game evidence that the Infestation, and by extension, Helminth, doesn't need a host to create a specimen, only to create a new 'blueprint'. The first indicator is the Corrupted Ancient Synthesis imprint - a Lorist was consumed by the Infestation, and then a swarm of infested Lorists was produced - Ancient Healers. There weren't any more Lorists (aside from the Narrator) for them to make more Lorist-pattern infested from, so they must have made them from Biomass. This explains how there is still Lorists, or why there's Infested forms from other factions in places there shouldn't be, or how the Hemocytes can be replicants of Lephantis - the Infestation needs to consume to upgrade itself, but can produce old units on its own. Presumably, the same applies to the Helminth - requiring a Human to produce a new frame or new variant of a frame, but

If they can mass produce new super-soldiers and give said super soldiers the ability to replace damaged equipment on their own, thereby removing the logistical risk of the supply chain which has proven military disasters before, then it makes perfect sense for there to be multiples of each frame. Even considering the lack of true 'perfection' - they already saw the Tenno as ugly and flawed in the first place, the rules were already bent.

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18 minutes ago, (PS4)Cephalon_Hope said:

Cephalons arent simple programs, they are digitized humans, while they can be deleted its not like you can just CTRL+C & CTRL+V and boom you get a copy, from what we know,each Cephalon is unique, as there is only 1 Ordis, 1 Suda, 1 Jordas, 1 Simaris 1 Samodeus, 1 Cordylon and so on, so, there should also only be 1 Cy, one thing is Cy getting lost in the Cephalon Weave after his Railjack got rekt and Ordis finds a trace of him and we manage to find him (which is the research), another thing is BUILDING a Cephalon, you can recover data and give it a new body, but you cant make a body and it magically has data, so therefor, unless we fixed Cy by simply giving him a "mainframe" (Think thats what Cephalon Cordylon called it in one of his posts) aboard the Railjack, BUILDING a Cephalon makes just as much sense as cloning Warframes, which is none.

So you ask me for proof, and then assert your headcanon without any proof. As for my proof:

46 minutes ago, (PS4)Cephalon_Hope said:

2.Again, no proof of that, all we know is that she was told that her next project was Titania after she had done other Warframes, nothing says Titania was built to be mass produced or to be Primed.

She stole the prototype blueprints of Original Titania. And Titania Primes will be part of the lore soon, so the Orokin took her Original Titania and cloned her to make Titania Prime

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6 hours ago, lukinu_u said:

But if we look at the crafting requirements, a few weapons could be hybrid too :

  • Panthera, a Tenno rifle requiring the Miter (Grineer) and Hikou (Tenno)
  • Twin Basolk, Grineer dual axes that require Atomos (Grineer) and Dual Zoren (Tenno)
  • Ripkas, Grineer claws require Dual Cleaver (Grineer) and Ankyros (Tenno)
  • Hystrix, a Tenno pistol requireing Viper (Grineer) and Bolto (Tenno)

Wait a second...magnify...

Ripkas, Grineer claws require Dual Cleaver (Grineer) and Ankyros (Tenno)

Magnify...

Ripkas, Grineer claws require Dual Cleaver (Grineer) and Ankyros (Tenno)

Isolate vitals, maximum magnification!

Ripkas * require * Tenno

Could it mean...?  Decrypt, damn you, decrypt!

.

. .

. . .

. . . .

. . . . .

RIPKAS

PRIME

CONFIRMED

 

source.gif

 

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12 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

1.So you ask me for proof, and then assert your headcanon without any proof. As for my proof:

2.She stole the prototype blueprints of Original Titania. And Titania Primes will be part of the lore soon, so the Orokin took her Original Titania and cloned her to make Titania Prime

1. Its not a headcanon, in all of Warframe we have only seen 1 Cephalon of each, if Cephalons could be replicated just like that, Octavia's Anthem wouldn't even be a thing, as Suda could just be made again, and therefor, Cephalons would have no risk of being destroyed, as you could just make a copy of one, plus, Ordis sends us a message telling us that he has found a signal, which should imply Cy is already "there" in the weave.

2. No, she was ASSIGNED Titania as her next project (check the quest dialogue on the wiki) after she has done other Warframes, Titania was simply her last project before becoming the Silver Grove, a killer made by a healer.

13 hours ago, Loza03 said:

1.First of all, the fact that Umbra was made from a human is presented as somewhat of a plot-twist. That wouldn't make sense if it was common knowledge amongst the Tenno, which in turn, indicates that us using humans to produce new frames isn't common practice.

2.Even beyond that, there's both lore and in-game evidence that the Infestation, and by extension, Helminth, doesn't need a host to create a specimen, only to create a new 'blueprint'. The first indicator is the Corrupted Ancient Synthesis imprint - a Lorist was consumed by the Infestation, and then a swarm of infested Lorists was produced - Ancient Healers. There weren't any more Lorists (aside from the Narrator) for them to make more Lorist-pattern infested from, so they must have made them from Biomass. This explains how there is still Lorists, or why there's Infested forms from other factions in places there shouldn't be, or how the Hemocytes can be replicants of Lephantis - the Infestation needs to consume to upgrade itself, but can produce old units on its own. Presumably, the same applies to the Helminth - requiring a Human to produce a new frame or new variant of a frame, but

3.If they can mass produce new super-soldiers and give said super soldiers the ability to replace damaged equipment on their own, thereby removing the logistical risk of the supply chain which has proven military disasters before, then it makes perfect sense for there to be multiples of each frame. Even considering the lack of true 'perfection' - they already saw the Tenno as ugly and flawed in the first place, the rules were already bent.

1. No, the fact that Warframes were made from humans was the plot-twist, as we see a NORMAL Excalibur being made from a human in the Vitruvian, plus, the Orokin made the Warframes, not us, therefor my suggestion on us "fixing" them instead of "building a new one", since the Tenno would have no knowledge on how to make a bloody Warframe, at best fix it.

2. Infestation can infest everything (apart from feral Kavats), as chargers are Grineer and runners are Corpus, but it cant make Warframes, only the Helminth strain can, which only the Orokin and us have access to, plus no where does it show that the Helminth has control over what it infests, as Umbra, despite being infested whit the Helminth wasnt being controlled by the good ol chair in the back of the Orbiter, plus there is also the Helminth charger, that still acts like a Kubrow despite being Helminth infested.

3. But they cant? Only type of cloning we know for a fact that the Orokin could make were the Grineer, and those guys were use for slave labor, and thats it. You guys keep bringing up "clone this" "clone that" but you still haven't shown anywhere where it says that they did clone them.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Cephalon_Hope said:

1. No, the fact that Warframes were made from humans was the plot-twist, as we see a NORMAL Excalibur being made from a human in the Vitruvian, plus, the Orokin made the Warframes, not us, therefor my suggestion on us "fixing" them instead of "building a new one", since the Tenno would have no knowledge on how to make a bloody Warframe, at best fix it.

Alone, the meta reason wouldn't mean much, no, but it is a point against, partially for this reason. Dramatic irony doesn't tend to work the opposite way because... well that makes for bad storytelling. Hence our Tenno's amnesia - we the players don't know what happened, so neither does our Avatar. 

That being said, the Tenno DO know how to make Warframes because we make Warframes. The 'fixing' theory doesn't hold water because what did we fix Umbra from? A couple gold nuggets? A scrap of cloth? A bit of loose flesh? Not much to go on. 99% of his entire body mass would have been recreated from scratch. At that point, the boundary between repair and rebuilding is literally non-existent. Or are you telling me we found the rest of his corpse off screen after we left?

1 hour ago, (PS4)Cephalon_Hope said:

2. Infestation can infest everything (apart from feral Kavats), as chargers are Grineer and runners are Corpus, but it cant make Warframes, only the Helminth strain can, which only the Orokin and us have access to, plus no where does it show that the Helminth has control over what it infests, as Umbra, despite being infested whit the Helminth wasnt being controlled by the good ol chair in the back of the Orbiter, plus there is also the Helminth charger, that still acts like a Kubrow despite being Helminth infested.

This... is a complete non-sequitur. It doesn't change or argue against that point in the slightest. Yeah, the Infestation can't make Warframes, because it doesn't have the Warframe pattern. The Helminth can't control the Warframes. But the Helminth is a strain of Infestation. The Infestation doesn't need a new host to recreate something, just biomass as long as it has the pattern to work from. Therefore, the Helminth can too. Hence 'blueprints' - we're literally providing Helminth with the pattern needed to knit together a new infested organism, just like the Regular Infested does with Lephantis/Hemocyte, or Ancients, or units from the opposite faction to the tileset.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Cephalon_Hope said:

3. But they cant? Only type of cloning we know for a fact that the Orokin could make were the Grineer, and those guys were use for slave labor, and thats it. You guys keep bringing up "clone this" "clone that" but you still haven't shown anywhere where it says that they did clone them.

Two points above show that, yes, the Infestation at least ABSOLUTELY can clone things, and thus the Helminth can, and thus we can because we control a nice little garden of said horrific murder-flesh.

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7 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

1.Alone, the meta reason wouldn't mean much, no, but it is a point against, partially for this reason. Dramatic irony doesn't tend to work the opposite way because... well that makes for bad storytelling. Hence our Tenno's amnesia - we the players don't know what happened, so neither does our Avatar. 

That being said, the Tenno DO know how to make Warframes because we make Warframes. The 'fixing' theory doesn't hold water because what did we fix Umbra from? A couple gold nuggets? A scrap of cloth? A bit of loose flesh? Not much to go on. 99% of his entire body mass would have been recreated from scratch. At that point, the boundary between repair and rebuilding is literally non-existent. Or are you telling me we found the rest of his corpse off screen after we left?

2.This... is a complete non-sequitur. It doesn't change or argue against that point in the slightest. Yeah, the Infestation can't make Warframes, because it doesn't have the Warframe pattern. The Helminth can't control the Warframes. But the Helminth is a strain of Infestation. The Infestation doesn't need a new host to recreate something, just biomass as long as it has the pattern to work from. Therefore, the Helminth can too. Hence 'blueprints' - we're literally providing Helminth with the pattern needed to knit together a new infested organism, just like the Regular Infested does with Lephantis/Hemocyte, or Ancients, or units from the opposite faction to the tileset.

3.Two points above show that, yes, the Infestation at least ABSOLUTELY can clone things, and thus the Helminth can, and thus we can because we control a nice little garden of said horrific murder-flesh.

1. What I am trying to make you understand is that the foundry gives 0 cares about lore right now, its a "Dont think about it" device just like the Market or Captura, the foundry doesn't make sense because it simply doesn't, plus, wen I say fix, I mean that in the sense of using resources on broken Warframe parts so to help the tissue grow back, as we saw that in 2nd Dream and Sacrifice, after being almost cut in half and whit Umbra missing his eye cover, a Warframe can heal itself using energy, so it would make sense that wen the damage is major, resources are needed since energy can only do so much. This would be much more plausible then herp a derp I scanned a blade, a elbow, a head and a scarf, now I have a brain scan whit memory's and that transference bolt that has never been seen before included, that I can shove together whit some alloy, nano spores and Kuva and boom make something that was once Human. (See how it sounds ridiculous ? 3D printing a Human ?)

2. You are compering Infested and Helminth as both one and the same, they obviously are not. Plus, where exactly did you get the info in the game that Infestation creates things whiteout needing a host ? All the infestation we have seen so far have had hosts to take its shape, or else it simply end up whit a very deformed shape, like Jordas or the infested tilesets.

3. INFESTATION and HELMINTH arent the same, thats like calling a gene the same as DNA, They DO NOT work the same way, as the Helminth has no trace of leaving the host whit the infestation, therefor literally not giving the Helminth any info about the host anyways.

 

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