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Found railjack components shouldn't have lower base stats than equivalent researched components.


Oreades
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It just seems like a supreme letdown that the railjack components you can find can't only have lower stats but significantly lower stats than their researched equivalents. 

There is some room for tradeoff. Maybe a slightly lower base stat in exchange for some other notable boost.... but that doesn't seem to be happening. I've seen way too many mkIII components that are just strait up worse than their researched counterparts that there isn't even a question as to "should I recycle this?" 

I've probably ly run across a dozen mkIII power cores and not a single one of them has even had a tradeoff stat that made me think seriously about repairing them. 

That isn't even touching on the titanium shortage.... or the fact that we don't get any sort of salvage from scrapping them. 

All that said I really feel that the researched components should represent a much closer baseline for the recoverable railjack components.

Edited by Oreades
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1 hour ago, Oreades said:

It just seems like a supreme letdown that the railjack components you can find can't only have lower stats but significantly lower stats than their researched equivalents. 

There is some room for tradeoff. Maybe a slightly lower base stat in exchange for some other notable boost.... but that doesn't seem to be happening. I've seen way too many mkIII components that are just strait up worse than their researched counterparts that there isn't even a question as to "should I recycle this?" 

I've probably ly run across a dozen mkIII power cores and not a single one of them has even had a tradeoff stat that made me think seriously about repairing them. 

That isn't even touching on the titanium shortage.... or the fact that we don't get any sort of salvage from scrapping them. 

All that said I really feel that the researched components should represent a much closer baseline for the recoverable railjack components.

I guess they could go with something like one of the stats always being higher than the Sigma. For instance Zetki is about flux, so instead of a 50 to 300 range it could be 150 to 300 with the trade off that the avionics capacity could still be far worse than the Sigma. And on Vidar that is about avionics, the minimum could be 60 to 100 instead of 30 to 100, but with flux staying at 10 to 100. Lavan could always have a minimum in both stats equal to Sigma.

That way they'd always be a better choice than Sigma since you'd get the stat type you are looking for while also getting the specific items bonuses that Sigma doesnt have.

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40 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I guess they could go with something like one of the stats always being higher than the Sigma. For instance Zetki is about flux, so instead of a 50 to 300 range it could be 150 to 300 with the trade off that the avionics capacity could still be far worse than the Sigma. And on Vidar that is about avionics, the minimum could be 60 to 100 instead of 30 to 100, but with flux staying at 10 to 100. Lavan could always have a minimum in both stats equal to Sigma.

That way they'd always be a better choice than Sigma since you'd get the stat type you are looking for while also getting the specific items bonuses that Sigma doesnt have.

Honestly ALL of them should never be lower then Sigma, UNLESS its that `cheap` tier having significantly lowered costs, though honestly the 12 hour repair time should not exist, unless D.E. wants to be a real major ARSE and have sigma parts also get that 12 our cause they Whoopsie`d on that bit of coding. Either they get large costs to make or they take some time to repair. Yet apparently it takes no time to make new railjack `parts` from scratch where it takes half a day to repair a pre-existing structure, which cannot give any resources from its frame outside of Dirac for some reason which Avionics also do, even if its only around a small %, but we get quite a few of those relatively easy anyway.

Zekti is suppose to be THE premium version, have the costs high and always have the base minimums high(basically always guaranteed to be higher then vidar), they should be the golden child parts to work towards, not have some fking trade off. While Vidar (if thats the Tier 3 balanced ones) should be the straight direct upgrades to Sigma series, not absurdly expensive, stats not ridiculously high, but they act as a whooping improvement over Sigma.

Though honestly, they should just get rid of the rng-sus factor if they do not PLAN to buff the drop rates to about 30-40% since way too many factors in place between the low drop chance, the wildly variable stats, the inability to just simply slot it on or a small repair cost, OR. EVEN. THE. ABILITY. TO. SCAVENGE. PARTS. FROM. OTHER. PARTS. TO. IMPROVE. OTHER. PARTS. SINCE. THEY. ARE. SUPPOSE. TO. BE. THE. SAME. BRAND. OR SOMETHING. AKA. HOUSE.

Hell, if Lavan, Vidar, Zekti are going to have specialties, then they might as well have the same cost and have the final result be what makes them better in certain eras, But unless D.E. wants to ret-con what each house represents, its going to have to be cut down to 2 houses with one being better for Utility and one better for the Primary use while Sigma is the balanced middle-child for them.

 

Edited by Avienas
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34 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Honestly ALL of them should never be lower then Sigma, UNLESS its that `cheap` tier having significantly lowered costs, though honestly the 12 hour repair time should not exist, unless D.E. wants to be a real major ARSE and have sigma parts also get that 12 our cause they Whoopsie`d on that bit of coding. Either they get large costs to make or they take some time to repair. Yet apparently it takes no time to make new railjack `parts` from scratch where it takes half a day to repair a pre-existing structure, which cannot give any resources from its frame outside of Dirac for some reason which Avionics also do, even if its only around a small %, but we get quite a few of those relatively easy anyway.

Zekti is suppose to be THE premium version, have the costs high and always have the base minimums high(basically always guaranteed to be higher then vidar), they should be the golden child parts to work towards, not have some fking trade off. While Vidar (if thats the Tier 3 balanced ones) should be the straight direct upgrades to Sigma series, not absurdly expensive, stats not ridiculously high, but they act as a whooping improvement over Sigma.

Though honestly, they should just get rid of the rng-sus factor if they do not PLAN to buff the drop rates to about 30-40% since way too many factors in place between the low drop chance, the wildly variable stats, the inability to just simply slot it on or a small repair cost, OR. EVEN. THE. ABILITY. TO. SCAVENGE. PARTS. FROM. OTHER. PARTS. TO. IMPROVE. OTHER. PARTS. SINCE. THEY. ARE. SUPPOSE. TO. BE. THE. SAME. BRAND. OR SOMETHING. AKA. HOUSE.

Hell, if Lavan, Vidar, Zekti are going to have specialties, then they might as well have the same cost and have the final result be what makes them better in certain eras, But unless D.E. wants to ret-con what each house represents, its going to have to be cut down to 2 houses with one being better for Utility and one better for the Primary use while Sigma is the balanced middle-child for them.

 

The house representation is different per item when it comes to flavor. The patch notes flavor text is not actually in the game, instead each seperate part has their own flavor based on which house it comes from. So far they fit pretty well besides when you get bottom rolls of one and top rolls of the other which shift their area of use. But that is just the nature of wreckage as I see it. The stat rolls symbolize how much potential you can get out of the wrecked piece when you've repaired it to the possible max.

There are also far more specialties per house than just the basic stats. You also have the specific perks.

However, as pointed out by the OP, there is no reason the stat rolls should come at a worse value than the dojo pieces. So having the main stat being higher even at the lowest possible value would be a good solution to turn them into improvements over Sigma.

And to be fair, the RNG factor needs to stay, some builds actually rely on bottom of the barrel rolls when it comes to min-maxing due to how specific house perks work with builds. It doesnt apply to all parts, but if it applies to some the RNG should stay so the chance to get a perfect roll at either end of the stick is the same, no matter if you look for max rolls or minimum rolls.

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57 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

 

And to be fair, the RNG factor needs to stay, some builds actually rely on bottom of the barrel rolls when it comes to min-maxing due to how specific house perks work with builds. It doesnt apply to all parts, but if it applies to some the RNG should stay so the chance to get a perfect roll at either end of the stick is the same, no matter if you look for max rolls or minimum rolls.

If they want to keep the damn rolls then they should allow us a MODIFICATION system where we can manipulate the stats into higher and lower rolls by taking parts from similar ship parts to replace the worst parts or the better parts with vice versa.

But honestly i believe i would rather be able to swap out sub-section parts(think about the various things that make up turrets like the barrels, the ammo holder, the firing mechanism, etc.) to do things like GUT the heat accumulation down so i can fire my guns longer which in term means more DPS or more room for errors on shots or maybe up the heat accumulation to give a large buff to the gun`s fall off(aka the freaking RANGE) so it can hit for full damage at a much farther distance.

HELL that would of been a more fun system, do not have this fiasco about houses, have all the parts could have wildly different stats and its more of a game of taking specific sub-parts of these weapons/parts and swap them between our `base` weapon/parts to tweak the stats to our liking. 

There was actually this one game i recall, which shame i can`t recall its name but you had this ridiculous gun crafting system where you could get so absurd to have 3 to 8 barrels on your hand-gun or multiple magazines or other insane combinations (Least how i could remember), but basically would allow for some fun combinations. Do not expect railjack to get that kind of level, but praise Lord Clem if D.E. were to give us that kind of fun with railjack, But i still feel it would make more sense we should be able to swap out sub-parts of each main part of the ship in order to modify its stats of that category instead.

We would basically keep the rng-sus, could scrap the useless parts or keep certain sub-parts to have multiple configs for the railjack if we want to priotize a slow ship but have a bunch of auto turrets to maul anything that gets close or some actually super speedie cruiser that could out-run fighters, crewship gunfire and just drop freaking bombs on all thar faces like how those outriders can dump INVINCIBLE bombs on us, that any other space flight game i recall, normally lets you shoot those dang bombs or have the ability to freaking dodge them.

Because once again, We are dealing with some piss-poor rng-sus stats with too many factors involved just to make use of them over keeping a sigma series part instead, so we can avoid wasting materials on what is a mediocre upgrade, when D.E. could suddenly decide to introduce ANOTHER house with even more absurd grind costs and more absurd high gain values compared to Zekti.

 

Edited by Avienas
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4 hours ago, Oreades said:

I've probably ly run across a dozen mkIII power cores and not a single one of them has even had a tradeoff stat that made me think seriously about repairing them. 

I've been trying to get a decent MK3 power core and haven't gotten anything good.
My last one was a Zekti MK3 reactor that had 12 avionics and 57 flux capacity.  For reference the Sigma MK2 has 30 avionics and 50 flux meaning that a MK2 base item is much better than a MK3 drop I got from the Veil Ruse node, as flux capacity isn't a huge limiter especially since energy drops can regain flux for the railjack.

I agree that its stupid for found components to be worse than the base sigma versions, and even stupider that they can be worse than the MK2 sigma components.

Honestly a MK3 component should never be able to roll lower than an MK2 component.  That just shouldn't be a thing.  MK3 are supposed to be upgrades over MK2, yet I have found way too many direct downgrades.

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

For instance Zetki is about flux, so instead of a 50 to 300 range it could be 150 to 300 with the trade off that the avionics capacity could still be far worse than the Sigma

Which is not a good tradeoff if you want to be honest.
Avionics capacity is much more important than some flux capacity.  Especially since flux refills from energy drops in space as well as being craftable.
There's no point to a high flux capacity if you only have 10 avionics capacity (which MK3 zektis can roll, same as MK1 sigma) which means you can't equip any avionics to use that flux capacity you just gained.

With Avionics capacity being so important a Zekti reactor is pretty much utterly useless no matter if it gets "perfect" rolls since it caps at at just as good as the Sigma MK3 with no noticeable upside.

And its not just reactors that Zekti got screwed on: its every component.
Its hard to find a single component that Zekti does better than anything else that the other houses offer.  I mean you could make a claim for the Zekti MK3 shields because they can have shields that start regenerating stupidly fast...but shields are pointless in Railjack missions just like they are in the vast majority of the rest of the game.  The only reason to use Zekti shields is for a chance at +25% damage while they are depleted...which sadly their main benefit (the faster shield recharge delay) works directly against.

Honestly DE needs to do a rebalance and a massive buff to Zekti pieces to make them evne worth considering equipping into your railjack.
Their weaponry sucks (overheats much too fast and doesn't do enough extra damage to compensate...especially since Vidar weapons can get close to Zekti damage at 1/3rd to 1/4th of the heat buildup meaning they can fire 3-4 times longer), their shields suck, their engines suck, and their reactors suck.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

You also have the specific perks.

Which sadly Zekti got utterly screwed on in that regards as well.  Most of Zektis passives are bottom tier that are pretty worthless, especially for the reactor, meanwhile the other houses have much better reactor passives.

Hell there is only one good Zekti Passive (+25% railjack damage while shields are down) but even that isn't as good as it could be because the main point of Zekti shields is fast regen...which stops the bonus from working as effectively.

So regardless of whether you're looking at the possible stat spread, or the MK3 perk list, Zekti was just completely and utterly screwed with no real upsides and no actual benefits over the other houses that comes into play meaningfully.

And it only gets worse when you look at the weapons.  50% bonus damage for 3-4x the heat generation?  Not a good tradeoff as you lose far more DPS than you gain from overheating faster.   Especially since Vidar can get up to 30% damage bonuses meaning that it comes really close to Zekti's damage and at much lower heat build-up.

Edited by Tsukinoki
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I am formally call a cease and desist and all DE products until PROPER servers are put in. P2P may work for XBOX or Playstation, but it pales in comparison to my computer I built compared to your Dell. Probably wont get far but least I tried.

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That is the confusing part, why would the range be worse than the basic research?

It makes no sense, and honestly it actually makes the dropped loot less useful because making a MK3 Sigma seems to be not only reliable but perfectly serviceable for general use.

But I'll give DE one chance to actually notice that the RNG ranges are absurd.

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30 minutes ago, Aldain said:

That is the confusing part, why would the range be worse than the basic research?

It makes no sense, and honestly it actually makes the dropped loot less useful because making a MK3 Sigma seems to be not only reliable but perfectly serviceable for general use.

But I'll give DE one chance to actually notice that the RNG ranges are absurd.

Also do noted they are also cheaper, and doesn't have crafting time.

Not to say that is bad thing.

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14 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Which is not a good tradeoff if you want to be honest.
Avionics capacity is much more important than some flux capacity.  Especially since flux refills from energy drops in space as well as being craftable.

That is just how Zetki is made. Avionics capacity isnt their focus, so if you want the max avionics capacity of Zetki you are guaranteed it with Sigma. Zetki is there is you want the flux mainly. And I agree, avionics capacity is much more important. 

There really isnt a need to make the drops a guaranteed upgrade from sigma since sigma is the middle choice, the one that is balanced across the board, the safe pick with no RNG.

15 hours ago, Avienas said:

If they want to keep the damn rolls then they should allow us a MODIFICATION system where we can manipulate the stats into higher and lower rolls by taking parts from similar ship parts to replace the worst parts or the better parts with vice versa.

But honestly i believe i would rather be able to swap out sub-section parts(think about the various things that make up turrets like the barrels, the ammo holder, the firing mechanism, etc.) to do things like GUT the heat accumulation down so i can fire my guns longer which in term means more DPS or more room for errors on shots or maybe up the heat accumulation to give a large buff to the gun`s fall off(aka the freaking RANGE) so it can hit for full damage at a much farther distance.

HELL that would of been a more fun system, do not have this fiasco about houses, have all the parts could have wildly different stats and its more of a game of taking specific sub-parts of these weapons/parts and swap them between our `base` weapon/parts to tweak the stats to our liking. 

There was actually this one game i recall, which shame i can`t recall its name but you had this ridiculous gun crafting system where you could get so absurd to have 3 to 8 barrels on your hand-gun or multiple magazines or other insane combinations (Least how i could remember), but basically would allow for some fun combinations. Do not expect railjack to get that kind of level, but praise Lord Clem if D.E. were to give us that kind of fun with railjack, But i still feel it would make more sense we should be able to swap out sub-parts of each main part of the ship in order to modify its stats of that category instead.

We would basically keep the rng-sus, could scrap the useless parts or keep certain sub-parts to have multiple configs for the railjack if we want to priotize a slow ship but have a bunch of auto turrets to maul anything that gets close or some actually super speedie cruiser that could out-run fighters, crewship gunfire and just drop freaking bombs on all thar faces like how those outriders can dump INVINCIBLE bombs on us, that any other space flight game i recall, normally lets you shoot those dang bombs or have the ability to freaking dodge them.

Because once again, We are dealing with some piss-poor rng-sus stats with too many factors involved just to make use of them over keeping a sigma series part instead, so we can avoid wasting materials on what is a mediocre upgrade, when D.E. could suddenly decide to introduce ANOTHER house with even more absurd grind costs and more absurd high gain values compared to Zekti.

 

I wouldnt mind a modification system. I can also see the sub-section parts being a thing aslong as they balance it, so we cant get something like a cannon with Zetki damage, vidar heat, lavan status, vidar crit and cidar fall off. Dont need another system ruined by power creep.

Another thing they could also do to counter the RNG is upping drop rates aswell as have unwanted wreckage scrap for resources instead of pointless dirac. Each piece should scrap into half of what we get from scrapping a repaired piece, so we should get 1/4th of the repair cost.

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I think having lower stats than researched component would be fine if there was more to different reactors than a minor bonus and two stats (of which one is usually superior to the other). It would be better if, for reactors for instance, there was a major house-based effect that changed the way you use the Railjack: say, Sigma reactor could make your ship more durable for general purposes, Zetki was more niche by giving capacity discount for Battle Avionics and making them stronger, Lavan being similar but with Tactical avionics and so on.

Edited by Randomeer
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  • 2 weeks later...

butwhy.JPG

Like seriously.... but why? 

I mean I guess you can say "but look at that sweet sweet flux capacity~" for all of the single mod you can install. 

Both Battle and Tactical avionics you're looking at between 8-10 Capacity when upgraded to a useful state.... meaning you can install VUN UND ONLY VUN extra(?) Avionic bauble to your ship. Tho odds are you've been using literally anything else so using this MKIII is just a strait up downgrade.Who needs all those fancy things like Armor or extra Hull, shields or even Weapon damage..... Cause you're gonna have to throw those out the window to use this thing. 

Picked up a Lavon with a 66 to Avionics (Actual upgrade OMG) but my friend got (the same Lavan btw) one with 13. For reference the researched Sigma MKI is +10 and I have yet to see a MKIII Zekti that is reasonably better than a researched MKII and not outright outclassed by the researched MKIII. 

I mean I guess if I was super desperate to maybe have minor breaches auto resolve? Because the bulk of the Battle/Tactical avionics are pretty underwhelming to give up so much Avionic capacity to be able to use them a whole two (at 100 cost) extra times without needing to interact with the forge and It's not like you can even spam void cloak (at 50 cost) since it has a 120 second cooldown...

 

Adendum: I'm kinda confused by the lore, if memory servers (I'll have to check it out later) Zekti was essentially the cream of the crop and all of their mods where really great but came with high avionics costs..... so why is their reactor focused on Flux instead of being able to run all those fancy high cost mods?

So to my initial "but why?" I would like to add a second more lore based "but why?" I'm just so confused right now. Time for breakfast! 

Edited by Oreades
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1 hour ago, Oreades said:

butwhy.JPG

Like seriously.... but why? 

I mean I guess you can say "but look at that sweet sweet flux capacity~" for all of the single mod you can install. 

Both Battle and Tactical avionics you're looking at between 8-10 Capacity when upgraded to a useful state.... meaning you can install VUN UND ONLY VUN extra(?) Avionic bauble to your ship. Tho odds are you've been using literally anything else so using this MKIII is just a strait up downgrade.Who needs all those fancy things like Armor or extra Hull, shields or even Weapon damage..... Cause you're gonna have to throw those out the window to use this thing. 

Picked up a Lavon with a 66 to Avionics (Actual upgrade OMG) but my friend got (the same Lavan btw) one with 13. For reference the researched Sigma MKI is +10 and I have yet to see a MKIII Zekti that is reasonably better than a researched MKII and not outright outclassed by the researched MKIII. 

I mean I guess if I was super desperate to maybe have minor breaches auto resolve? Because the bulk of the Battle/Tactical avionics are pretty underwhelming to give up so much Avionic capacity to be able to use them a whole two (at 100 cost) extra times without needing to interact with the forge and It's not like you can even spam void cloak (at 50 cost) since it has a 120 second cooldown...

 

Adendum: I'm kinda confused by the lore, if memory servers (I'll have to check it out later) Zekti was essentially the cream of the crop and all of their mods where really great but came with high avionics costs..... so why is their reactor focused on Flux instead of being able to run all those fancy high cost mods?

So to my initial "but why?" I would like to add a second more lore based "but why?" I'm just so confused right now. Time for breakfast! 

Can't understand nonsense imho.

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