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Lich farming really isn't that hard


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Litch farming could be easy for a guy who has time enough to spend 80 days 24x7 non stop litch farming but this freaking RNG is not friendly for a man who has real life and job.

Recently warframe has been very bad at placing RNG over everything and its pathetic when a minority of community praise such idiotic decesions 

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12小时前 , (PS4)AllOrNothinDays 说:

It doesn't respect your time. Think of it this way. What do you get out of a dupe? You can convert a Lich and got what? A free pal that appears when you forget it exists and lasts for how long? Lol.You get nothing for your time that is worth it once you get a dupe that doesn't add anything as far as an extra boost of strength or a new cosmetic if you are lucky.

It doesn't respect your time.

@(PS4)AllOrNothinDays    OMG, niceeeeeeeeee   words jst like gun shotted on my heart bro.😱😱😱😱

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2 hours ago, Aldain said:

wall of text which I didn't fully read, bc it's simply repeating the previous post in diff manner, except with irl parallels now

you are merging two aspects here - one: you know you won't like it because ABC (which I can agree to, sure - your choice and you know best what works for you and what doesn't), and then the holistic criticism of the system or grind, which you have no basis for, since you did not part-take in the system to begin with. one lich is not part-taking. 

what I am saying, using your burning stove allegory, is - don't complain about the need to go to the forest, chop the wood, bring it over to feed the stove multiple times if you have only ever cooked on the stove one single meal, and even that by accident.

you can dislike it for it, sure, but complaints about the boring grind, repetitiveness and such are not yours, with one lich under your belt. 

if you still can't accept this reasoning, i suggest we drop it. nobody gets any wiser from repeating same points over and over.

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On 2020-01-01 at 1:33 AM, -Temp0- said:

Yeah and just like wih everything else, you didnt bother to read thw complaints themselves because then you would have known that people "complain" about awful rng, awful ephemera drop rate, useless mods that turn into garbage after just 3 uses and the need to buy or re-farm them, duplicates, pointless garbage regular missiosn you need to grind over and over and over and over again for each lich and being unable to get rid of the uselss duplicate lich by selling it or throwing out the airlock and the need to STILL farm him in order to get rid of it once defeated or converted.

Hope I didnt forget anything about this garbo system.

Good concept, godawful implementation, like always, 10/10 rng.

Both Emyrean and Liches are there to just waste your time.

No its not. Each player has a mission type he's okay with doing even 1000 times in a  row, especially if its rewarding.

And murmur farming is needlessly long and boring.

Which brings the point, if you have balls to level up your lich, you should get even more murmurs and a chane for it to drop ephemera on defeat regardless. Right now, theres practically no difference in reward for lv 1 and 5 lich - classic de that doesnt reward difficulty.

The last paragraph is ESPECIALLY POIGNANT.  It’s important to reward and respect a player’s time invested.

I think a lot of what you are seeing is the overall weight of the F2P business model devaluing the experience due to RnG pressure.

However,

If profits weren’t a concern for DE, the game would be played at a pace that affinity, resource, and credit boosters grant and that drop rates would be higher.

Players have a threshold that must be crossed with negative reinforcement to force a buying decision that somehow removes Platinum from the game economy.  Or they “quit”as a player with “buy potential”...they stop playing altogether or forever freeload as updates come.

That threshhold can be VERY high for some.

The flip side of this is positive reinforcement through great gameplay and design. But only so many people volunteer their money this way, and as players push the threshold for what they will endure to NOT have to spend real money, DE will always be fighting an uphill battle to capture that seemless “sweet spot” gameplay experience of 3-4 years ago.

Even the story development has been impacted.

I don’t envy Sheldon.

 

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The problem isn't difficulty. It's horrible drop rates given how long it takes to complete. Each lich takes between 2-3 hours depending on how lucky you are guessing the requiem mods. I have done 50 liches. I do not have a single ephemera to show for it. That is approximately 150 hours with no ephemera. This is one of biggest problems with liches. The other major problem is that liches are separated from general content. You cannot do other things and farm your lich.

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I don't mind the lich system as a separate system.   What I do mind is DE did not add in the classic "pay to skip" mechanic somewhere.  I just want something like a 10-20P item which allows you to "select the weapon that you will fight for".   This means I can either play with RNG or say "let me take the short path".    But right now I do not have that choice.

Furthermore, the system is so unrewarding, IMO, that once you have every weapon...why would you ever consider doing it again other than 'just cause'.  For a very small percent of players...sure; same as a the 1000 forma excal.   I am on a 1:1 ratio right now (1 new, and 1 dupe).    I have no desire to even approach the average "44 lich" to get every weapon.    Hell, even Emperion is more rewarding giving you +1500 mastery for every rank you get.   I got more 5x more MR from Emperion in 20 hours than I did from lich in the same amount of time.    Oh, you want me to 5x forma a weapon which has a RNG stats...screw that.

 

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1 hour ago, tzadquiel said:

burning stove allegory

Nope. Definitely not. 

As for the analogy, how has it even come to this? Someone can't talk about a system, mechanic or otherwise without experience full stop?

Am I allowed to say that motor racing is dangerous? I mean, I've never actually raced a car but seeing the crashes on tv certainly makes it seem dangerous.

Can I say that the 200m sprint is exhausting? I've only done it once or twice myself, and certainly not in some years now since I messed up my leg. Maybe it isn't exhausting anymore... wouldn't that be something?

Experience is of course helpful, but hardly necessary. We can see that it's boring and repetitive and we absolutely can voice criticism of this, just as we can see that motor racing is dangerous without partaking and sprint races are exhausting.

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considering my own progress with my lich I'd say it's not difficult really.

it's tiresome.

just tiresome.

as for longer missions... excuse me but not everyone out there is of the likes that has or wants to play builds that can *comfortably* solo a level 100+ defense - even if it's only 5 waves.

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4 hours ago, Mikaer88 said:

Killed my 3rd Lich an hour ago and it was mentally exhausting. Took me 2 hours of convincing myself not to fire up a different game. 

That just means you're not DIGITAL FIGHTING ELITE enough and need to GITGUD, scrub.

According to these forums and reddit the only players that matter are the ones running ten minute level 6000 ESO runs with their super-ultra-mega basement dweller meta saryn and mesa prime builds. Obviously everyone else are just baddies getting in their way, and the DE should listen only to them since we're all just non-elite scrubs that need to grind harder and gitgud. Scrub.

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3 hours ago, tzadquiel said:

if you still can't accept this reasoning, i suggest we drop it. nobody gets any wiser from repeating same points over and over.

But apparently doing something you already know you don't like in a game that's supposed to be fun means that you can learn to like it.

Get out.

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On 2020-01-02 at 7:00 AM, tzadquiel said:

-snip-

Your argument has no credibility. You not only strawmanned an entire post and ridiculed the person you disagreed with, but you're also doing a fair bit of unreasonable gatekeeping.

Back to the stove analogy...the experience of getting a slight burn from briefly touching a hot stove provides me with enough information to figure out that prolonged exposure to high heat or fire will be extremely painful and potentially damaging and that I should avoid being burned in the future.

I did one Lich as well...and that gave me sufficient information to deduce that dealing with Lichs, at least for me, is not a fun or rewarding experience and one that should be avoided as long as the system remains in the state that it's in.

If a pan looks to be uncomfortably or painfully hot, I'm not going to touch it. I'll touch it when its cool enough to handle. Likewise, I refuse to touch the Lich system ever again until I deem it to be fun, interesting, challenging, and rewarding and not frustrating, grindy, and needlessly punishing.

On 2020-01-02 at 9:36 AM, Mikaer88 said:

Downplaying his criticism just because he only killed one doesn't make his criticism any less legitimate.

Couldn't agree more. Well said!

On 2020-01-02 at 9:05 AM, DeMonkey said:

Experience is of course helpful, but hardly necessary. We can see that it's boring and repetitive and we absolutely can voice criticism of this, just as we can see that motor racing is dangerous without partaking and sprint races are exhausting.

Exactly. People can form educated opinions through observation and studying the experiences of others.

I've see the injuries that can occur from car crashes and can reasonably conclude that motor racing is a hazardous activity with a very high chance of inflicting bodily harm on its participants if something goes wrong. Given the sheer number of cars moving at high speeds, the odds of something going wrong are quite high.

 

Edited by MirageKnight
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I don't get all the salt. Liches added higher level variants of existing content with some new mechanics, bossfights, with new rewards. At the very least they provide a nice alternative way to level warframes on high level content, and occasionally a level 5 Lich hits hard enough and spawn tough enough thralls to make for a bit of uncertainty that we'll take the mission (depending on what gear I and the squad brought in).

I especially don't get the complaints about how long it takes to get all the ephemeras. They're supposed to be rare cosmetics earned through grind. I'm not into the grind so I'm not bothering to collect them all, but if you want them then do the work. A trophy you get for just logging in is meaningless.

Edit: to clarify, I'm not a huge fan of DE's grindwalls. Running the same mission 80 times to get all the parts of a frame seems unnecessarily harsh to me, padding the runtime and encouraging players to spend real money to skip the grind. But when it comes to cosmetics there's no p2w ethical conflict.

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3 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

 

Experience is of course helpful, but hardly necessary. We can see that it's boring and repetitive and we absolutely can voice criticism of this, just as we can see that motor racing is dangerous without partaking and sprint races are exhausting.

Inexperience lends itself to poor assessments. Motor racing may *seem* more dangerous than it is to a casual observer, and sprint races might be exhilarating as well as exhausting but someone on the sidelines likely wouldn't really understand.

Of course we can complain about things that seem off-putting to us without a thorough understanding, but it behooves us to acknowledge we may be doing so in ignorance.

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2 minutes ago, thurmack said:

Motor racing may *seem* more dangerous than it is to a casual observer

No no, I'm saying it's dangerous full stop. No "more dangerous" or other such vague and abstract takes on motor racing.

I, as someone who has never raced a car, am saying that motor racing is a dangerous sport. Am I wrong?

3 minutes ago, thurmack said:

and sprint races might be exhilarating as well as exhausting but someone on the sidelines likely wouldn't really understand.

No, I'm not talking about exhilaration or anything of the sort. I'm saying that the 200m sprint is exhausting despite not having done one in years. Am I wrong?

If I'm not wrong, then it's possible to say that the Lich system is boring and repetitive without actually wasting hours of my life on it.

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1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

 Am I wrong?

 

I'm not clear if you didn't understand my point or are being intentionally obtuse.

Dangerous is a subjective term. Crossing a street is dangerous. Without comparison the term is meaningless.

You aren't wrong because you call motor sports dangerous without trying them, you are wrong to judge hold strong opinions about things you do not understand. You are welcome to continue doing so, but if people casually disregard your uninformed opinions you probably shouldn't get upset about it.

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1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

There we go then. It's not wrong, hence me arguing with the person saying we can't comment without playing it.

How do you take a quote out of context to validate an opinion I thoroughly lambasted? It's almost like you don't care at all if your statements make any sense.

But feel free to quote me as saying "your statements make [...] sense".

To be fair, I wouldn't have said you can't comment without playing it. Whoever said that was unnecessarily obstructive to discourse, imo. But you seem proud of your eagerness to remain uninformed and still make empassioned critical comments and I just don't see why that is a thing that makes sense to you.

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2 minutes ago, thurmack said:

How do you take a quote out of context to validate an opinion I thoroughly lambasted? It's almost like you don't care at all if your statements make any sense.

But feel free to quote me as saying "your statements make [...] sense".

To be fair, I wouldn't have said you can't comment without playing it. Whoever said that was unnecessarily obstructive to discourse, imo. But you seem proud of your eagerness to remain uninformed and still make empassioned critical comments and I just don't see why that is a thing that makes sense to you.

So what changes between lich #1 and lich #100? What's the difference 'giving the system a chance' actually makes? Do liches significantly change in mechanics and rewards after the third or fourth or whatever and no one is talking about it at all? 

I can't help but notice you're avoiding answering the main question here. 

 

 

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