Baruuk: no place for the reluctant ?

[buffalobuffalogaming]

I'm think there might be something wrong with Baruuk design concept / theme. Correct me if I'm wrong.

• Speaking about pacifist theme, Warframe does not support non-lethal playstyle at the moment, 99% of the game content requires bloodshed to unlock it. There is no option such as "knock enemy unconscious" in this game. All weapons are lethal. Regardless of "So many new ways to play!!" advertisement. 
• Speaking about being reluctant, Do you prefer a "reluctant" frame with average performance, or "willing" specialized frame with high performance to get things done ?
• Lorewise: The Orokin seem to force this reluctant frame to kill, pushing him against his will, and now the tenno is doing the same thing ? this doesn't make sense.
• Most Baruuk users are building toward his 4 and rip everything to shreds. Why even bother with the "Pacifist Concept / Priest Cosplay" at all ?
• As for warframes which can complete missions(spy, mobile def. , rescue...) without bloodshed, my Limbo,Ivara (and other specialized CC frames) are far more useful than Baruuk.
• As for warframes which committing quick massacre, I have no place for the "Pacifist/Reluctant" in my list, I'll go full offensive without restraints
• Having lots of CC powers, Exalted weapon and a borrowed priest robe looks good in the paper, but in an actual gameplay, will you pick Baruuk for your current mission ?
• "You can make Baruuk powerful, just need 10+ formas" might scare some players away.
• If D.Extreme really care about making a truly unique frame, not an average one, How about making Baruuk an extreme pacifist ? Remove all of his lethal weapons/powers, forbid him from using lethal weapons, forbid him to participate in extermiation missions, give bonuses when performing non-lethal action. If this community prefer Baruuk as another killing machine, replace his not-so-holy priest robe with something darker and buff his lethal weapons/powers. 

I rarely see Baruuk in missions now, perhaps players recognize him as a pacifist and return him to his peaceful temple.
Far, far away from the grindy chaos. 
End of Baruuk Story 😄.

Edited January 6, 2020 by blimsoon
Updates

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

His 1-3 are very passive ability’s that do not involve killing and his 4 is meant to be him losing restraint and unleashing some hidden power. Unfortunately his 4 sucks for damage. So IDK what you’re talking about saying that he’s one of the most lethal.

[KnossosTNC]

Baruuk is more a "reluctant warrior" than a pacifist; he would rather not fight, but if you push him to his breaking point, he'll open a can of hurt and force-feed it to you.

[0_The_F00l]

He has fists that pacify, permanently. 

So... Paci fist. 

 

Puns aside, his abilities are mostly defensive / threat neutralizing. 

I am waiting for his augments to make him better. 

His 4 is rather good on crowd damage and mob clearing, but does more knock backs and gives acceptable CC. It can easily out damage other abilities from an aoe perspective if used right. 

[Dark_Chroma_Prime]

48 minutes ago, blimsoon said:

I'm pretty sure there is something wrong with Baruuk design concept. Correct me if I'm wrong.

• Warframe does not support non-lethal playstyle at the moment, 99% of the game content requires bloodshed to unlock it. 
• There is no option such as "knock enemy unconsious" in this game.
• Shaolin monks never trained to use lethal weapon or ready to kill when out of restraints.
• Baruuk should be a pacifist non-lethal frame but ended up becoming one of the most lethal frame.

But I guess common senses won't work for this game...

The main problem is that barook ist a pacifist themed frame in WARframe, which absolutely makes no sense

[(PSN)TONI__RIBEIRO]

He pacifies with his fists.

[ILOHARTA]

46 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

He has fists that pacify, permanently. 

So... Paci fist.

[Aldain]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Unfortunately his 4 sucks for damage.

Hey, at least it's not Iron Staff.

...I feel the pain of the Wukong fans.

[buffalobuffalogaming]

44 minutes ago, Dark_Chroma_Prime said:

The main problem is that barook ist a pacifist themed frame in WARframe, which absolutely makes no sense

That's my point , why bother making a "Paci-fist" frame at all when the mission requires total bloodbath ?
He also shows no signs of "reluctant" when using other weapons to kill.

Edited January 2, 2020 by blimsoon

[Xyngrr]

Thematically, Baruuk is an old retired warrior.
He has in the past seen combat and weathered through it, and now chooses not to focus on raw damage dealing abilities but other aspects such as damage avoidance and pacification of enemies by removing their weapons. Having non-lethal methods does not preclude losing his restraint and laying out the smackdown but this return to past arbitrary bloodbath is a last resort once other options have been exhausted, or if they prove ineffective.

Also, if you think Serene Storm is weak, you've built it poorly.
It still sorely needs to maintain/reset timeout on a combo counter on wave hits, but only increment on direct fist contact. Currently, you have to build combo using another weapon and then burst for real damage, then swap back out which is a pain.

[SordidDreams]

1 hour ago, blimsoon said:

there is something wrong with Baruuk design concept

Yup. Like you said, a pacifist frame in a game that's all about killing people is a silly idea. I remember Steve and Rebecca said in an interview (with Mogamu, I think?) that there are no frame concepts that ended up on the cutting room floor, they used every single one they came up with. Welp, this is the result. There's a good reason why they teach you to brainstorm first, chuck away the garbage ideas second, and only then start working on the remaining good ones. But no.

[SneakyErvin]

Baruuk feels like a concept that was made up way way way way back in WFs history. Before the tenno were the tenno. When the idea of frames may have been that they had more personality. But with how the story of warframe has turned out, I'm not really sure an actual pacifist frame or a frame based on a pacifist host would ever be a thing for the Orokin. Since their design intent was to annihilate sentients. So possibly Baruuk was based on mysterious warrior monks and sent onto the field of battle as a supporting unit for the other frames and his "deadly" fists were used when most needed.

Which kinda also makes the restraint mechanic kinda odd to say the least, since it wouldnt really be a thing for any frame beyond the first Baruuk ever created because the tenno would control such things later since they'd be the person at the wheel and not the initial host.

[buffalobuffalogaming]

20 minutes ago, Xyngrr said:

... return to past arbitrary bloodbath is a last resort once other options have been exhausted, or if they prove ineffective.

All of his CC is ineffective bacause temporarily disarming all enemies in the area does not complete most mission objectives,
They only bought you some times to prepare your next lethal actions.
Which means It always end in the old-style total bloodbath.

[Acersecomic]

2 hours ago, blimsoon said:

• Baruuk should be a pacifist non-lethal frame but ended up becoming one of the most lethal frame.

Monks are trained in martial arts and combat, they do not promote aggression but will kick the sht out of you and then some if you give them cause. They are not "beat me plenty" masochists, they are "dare to provoke me and a god of whoop@$$ will descend upon you".
They are not and never were mindless pacifists.

Edited January 2, 2020 by Acersecomic

[(PSN)robotwars7]

2 hours ago, blimsoon said:

Maybe there is no point in using "pacifist" frame at all in a game that never really supports non-lethal playstyle.

 I think the main problem with Baruuk's place in game is that he was supposed to get some kind of Lore behind him that explains how a pacifist Warframe came to be, but sadly we've never gotten it. I imagine that perhaps the Tenno who controlled Baruuk didn't like violence, and wanted to find other ways to solve problems throughout the system, but eventually came to realise that while war is brutal and hellish, in some cases violence may be the only option against a foe that cannot be bribed or reasoned with in any way (such as the infested for example). this Tenno would likely be ridiculed by other Tenno for their pacifism, which could have led to an interesting character Arc: the Tenno who refused to pick up a sword, even when the entire system was at war.

if we had this story, or something like it to explain Baruuk, he would probably be received more positively. instead, he is seen as an outlier in a selection of frames designed specifically to kill en masse.

 

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

2 hours ago, blimsoon said:

I'm pretty sure there is something wrong with Baruuk design concept. Correct me if I'm wrong.

• Warframe does not support non-lethal playstyle at the moment, 99% of the game content requires bloodshed to unlock it. 
• There is no option such as "knock enemy unconsious" in this game.
• Shaolin monks never trained to use lethal weapon or ready to kill when out of restraints.
• Baruuk should be a pacifist non-lethal frame but ended up becoming one of the most lethal frame.
• WF barely rewards player being pacifist. More like the opposite.

Maybe there is no point in using "pacifist" frame at all in a game that never really supports non-lethal playstyle.

Pacifist themed, I think, is a better way to think of it. He’s a pacifist the way John Wick is a pacifist in the beginning of John Wick.

[buffalobuffalogaming]

14 minutes ago, Acersecomic said:

Monks are trained in martial arts and combat, they do not promote aggression but will kick the sht out of you and then some if you give them cause. They are not "beat me plenty" masochists, they are "dare to provoke me and a god of whoop@$$ will descend upon you".
They are not and never were mindless pacifists.

I've never seen a monk carrying a machine gun wandering battlefields, Baruuk can equip any lethal weapon though.

[Madway7]

 

2 hours ago, blimsoon said:

• WF barely rewards player being pacifist. More like the opposite.

Maybe there is no point in using "pacifist" frame at all in a game that never really supports non-lethal playstyle.

Sadly they only realized this halfway through his development.

 

 

 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

3 hours ago, KnossosTNC said:

Baruuk is more a "reluctant warrior" than a pacifist; he would rather not fight, but if you push him to his breaking point, he'll open a can of hurt and force-feed it to you.

Or atleast that was the intention. Until someone was like “Nope, his 4 needs to suck”

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

2 hours ago, blimsoon said:

I've never seen a monk carrying a machine gun wandering battlefields, Baruuk can equip any lethal weapon though.

He's making an example. You're still playing a game in the future far from our current present. A future where you're playing a battle suit probably based on themes from our old world. Hence a poison frame, fire, ice, earth frames etc. Hes just another theme because it's a game lol.

[SilvaDreams]

4 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

His 1-3 are very passive ability’s that do not involve killing and his 4 is meant to be him losing restraint and unleashing some hidden power. Unfortunately his 4 sucks for damage. So IDK what you’re talking about saying that he’s one of the most lethal.

Except my Baruuk can hit for over 2 million damage with his #4 Sooooo, not sure how it's damage sucks.

[Rakosta_Kai]

5 hours ago, blimsoon said:

• Warframe does not support non-lethal playstyle at the moment, 99% of the game content requires bloodshed to unlock it. 
• There is no option such as "knock enemy unconscious" in this game.
• Shaolin monks never trained to use lethal weapon or ready to kill when out of restraints.
• Baruuk should be a pacifist non-lethal frame but ended up becoming one of the most lethal frame.
• WF barely rewards player being pacifist. More like the opposite.
• As for warframes which can complete missions(spy, mobile def. , rescue...) without bloodshed, my Limbo and Ivara are far more useful than Baruuk.
• As for warframes which can commit massacre, I have no place for "Pacifist Frame" in my list.

• Sure it does, it's moreso player choice than it is a hard coded requirement.

The simple facts of the matter are that it is more work to avoid killing the mobs than it is to neutralize/avoid them to complete the objective. That said, I run missions all the time where I ignore most of the mobs, complete my objective, and extract.

• True. That said, there are a number of other incapacitating options instead though.
• Yes they did. The whole concept behind the monks was self defense.
• Highly debatable an all counts.
• Neither does any other combat game aside from Kojima games.
• Comparing gods to mortals.
• Then don't use him.

I'll never understand why people take mortal offense to one option in a field of 40+ options.

...That's literally like getting triggered at a restaurant menu for having a dish featuring carrots in a 4 page menu featuring dishes of all kinds.

It's your right to be annoyed, but that doesn't mean it makes sense.

[Circle_of_Psi]

5 hours ago, blimsoon said:

Maybe there is no point in using this "pacifist" frame at all in a game that never really supports non-lethal playstyle.

It all boils down to, Concept Vs Reality and sadly that's been the case with most Warframes lately, sounds cool on paper, is terrible in-game.

[Neuerwinter]

Yes Baruuk sucks very much don't play him

[Firedtm]

5 hours ago, blimsoon said:

Warframe does not support non-lethal playstyle at the moment, 99% of the game content requires bloodshed to unlock it.

Survival with his 1 and 2, nowhere does it tell you that you have to kill in order to survive, only that you need to open the life support in order to keep going...