Jump to content

Ash: His current problems and the solutions to fix them


Message added by Letter13,

While there is some excellent feedback in this thread, the thread was only being kept alive by repeated bumping--behavior which is not something we condone on these forums.

Recommended Posts

As much as Ash is my main frame, he needs to be looked at again.

The 1st ability is only good with its augment. Augments should be used as an option and not coz the ability on its own is bad, the 2nd ability could benefit by having better cc and even through ppl say that his invisible is too short I have no issue with it, the 3rd ability has potential to be so much better just of the concept of teleportation alone and the 4th ability is terrible when it comes to activation speed, it`s too slow and other ppl can take your kills (even in low levels) and even more things that make it bad.

Overall Ash is a contradiction to what DE wants ppl to do in this game.... PLAY AS A TEAM, that's why he needs to be looked at again and If I were to give him a re-visit, this is what I would do;

Just to add, If you like my ideas please leave a like and share this post, If you want my idea to be implemented to Ash please sign and share my petition so DE can see this and make Ash way better than he is/was.

http://chng.it/TVJnXgZC

 

Ash:

·       All abilities can be cast while on ziplines.

 

1st Ability: Shuriken

Spoiler

·       If an enemy is killed in one hit it is considered as a stealth kill.

·       Holding the ability will make both shurikens target the enemy you`re aiming at dealing double slash damage and adds critical damage based on what crit damage mods you have equipped on your melee weapon, also headshots will do more damage.

·       The held version will have increased flight speed.

·       The more health the enemy loses, the slower the enemy moves when bleeding out.

·       When the enemy stops bleeding, it will go back to its normal movement speed.

·       If you hit the same enemy that was affected before, it will go back to the same slow speed and will keep getting slower until it`s lifeless.

·       It has a 1 second combo window. The more you use the ability, the more damage it does, the less energy it takes.

·       The built-up damage multi from spamming it can affect the held version of shuriken.

·       The held version works like the way Nazha`s 2nd ability does. Quick cast, straight path and more damage.

·       The held version can pause the 1 sec combo duration drain indicator so that you have time to get the full damage out of it but the decreased energy won`t carry over to it.

·       Depending on the damage built up from the combo multiplayer will determine the increase of critical damage from the held version, if high enough it can reach red crits.

1

This makes Ash more strategic by giving a choice of who he wants to kill and makes him better at killing single target enemies.

 

2nd Ability: Smoke Screen

Spoiler

·       Increase the cast stun duration to 4 sec.

·       The smoke left behind will last for 10 seconds.

·       The smoke cloud has a 5m radius which can be increased by range mods.

·       Enemies that enter the smoke will have a 6 sec stun duration and are 40% more susceptible to damage. If allies are in the cloud they cannot be targeted by enemies.

·       The 4sec stun also affects osprays by them visually float down to the ground before recovering.

·       If Ash stays in the cloud the duration won`t start until either he leaves the cloud or the cloud duration runs out.

·       Allies that are in the cloud are visually translucent showing as a indicator that they are unseen by enemies.

·       All stun durations cannot be increased by duration mods.

·       When Ash is invisible, the apparitions from bs are also invisible.

·       Remove muffled sound while invisible.

 

There are now new ways you can use this ability;

·       You can use it next to a dangerously high-levelled enemy to stun it and kill it with ease.

·       You can use it to block enemies in doorways. Since the smoke affect duration is 6 seconds and the smoke lasts 10 seconds, enemies will be stuck for a total of 12 seconds.

·       You can protect your allies from enemies` sight with smoke cloud.

·       If you mod for less duration and more range, it will turn it into a better cc ability.

4

These improvement makes this ability strategic and you have more than one way to use the ability.

 

3rd Ability: Teleport

Spoiler

·       Holding the ability will show an indicator of where he can teleport to from the radical.

·       Teleporting to a wall will make ash hang to the wall for 10 seconds if you decide to grab onto the wall. Releasing the grab button will still keep Ash onto the wall unless he jumps off the wall or the duration runs out.

·       Not only it can teleport to anything with a health bar, it can also teleport to anything that can be scanned.

·       You can teleport through windows if there are allies, npcs, enemies, objects with a health bar or is scannable objects on the other side of it.

·       You are able to teleport to enemies that are in the air.

·       After teleporting in the air, performing melee attacks will keep him in the air.

·       Even if the enemy is under a stun, they can still be opened up for a finisher.

·       When teleporting to enemies with the held version, enemies won`t detect you when in close proximity and it won`t open enemy to finishers.

·       If you can see allies through walls, Ash can teleport to them.

·       The cast speed of the held version is half a second.

·       He can teleport to dargyns and do an instant finisher on the enemy flying it to take it over.

·       If he targets an enemy behind cover, he will teleport behind it for a finisher instead of just standing above them.

·       He can preform front finishers on moas and infested enemies.

2

These tweaks Ash`s 3rd ability will improve his teleporting abilities and gives him the option from focus enemy targeting to teleporting anywhere with less limitations.

 

Before I get into bs here are the current problems with bs;

Spoiler

·       The two stages of the killing process make bs slow, because of this, other players can take his kills before you get a chance to kill them which makes him not helpful in the team, not fun to play and in a fast-pasted game this is bad.

 

·       Marking enemies for some players is sickening because of the motion of moving the cursor onto enemies, even though it`s easier (but still a problem) to do this using a mouse, doing this on a controller is not as easy, an ability should be able to be easy to use no matter what you use.

 

·       Because enemies are highlighted by your chosen energy colour, it will make enemies more visible to other players to go and kill them which in their minds is a top priority.

 

·       If you want the full damage of bs, you have to mark the enemies three times which will slow you down or  makes you stationary (if you want to do it quickly) to mark enemies with three marks. In low-level missions, your energy will be refunded back to you if you over mark and in high levels you obviously going to want the full damage of it so there is absolutely no point in having to choose the amount of damage you want to dish out. With the old bs, you had the full damage regardless.

 

·       Bodies disappearing makes it to where you can`t bring him in a desecrating team with a nekros. While bodies disappearing makes sense on paper for him being a ninja and I like the idea, unfortunately, this just makes him a problem in that team.

 

·       The indicator shows how many marks instead of how many enemies affected by bs. Because of this, you have no idea how many enemies are going to be killed. If it showed how many enemies affected by bs, it will let the play know when to use bs again.

 

·       Using your 2nd ability to use less energy is not synergy. Synergy is meant to be a choice that makes a difference in missions however, this so-called synergy is a must to use it consistently which makes it a bad gimmick.

 

·       Because of the synergy between his 2nd & 4th ability, you are forced to mod for duration to benefit from using less energy for bs since most people are not going to use bs while it`s taking more energy.

 

·       Using the 3rd ability to join the animation costs no energy but you need energy to be able to use it which makes no sense plus, in low-level missions, sometimes you`re not even going to get a chance use your 3rd ability because the apparitions have killed the enemies already. (depending on how many enemies you mark)

 

·       Apparitions (clones) appearance is not consistent. The visuals go from looking like you custom coloured Ash to a hologram version, to the original ash look with default colours. Also, this is a bug that the old bs had which means it has not been fixed.

 

·       When marking, you can`t mark enemies that are behind walls or objects which make you have to run around searching for enemies to kill and if you in a team, your marked enemies will be killed off by your teammates.

 

·       Even if Ash`s damage has increased to 2,000, (his damage now is still great) the damage is not as good compared to the old bs. The apparitions of the old bs was like Saryn`s 1st ability damage but slightly better, (and the terminator) the apparitions would not stop killing until the enemies were dead and even though attack speed mods can increase their killing speed, with the current bs, the apparitions only attack three times however the bleeding damage speed cannot.

 

·       Because of the way it works, it makes shuriken not favoured in use due to the amount of energy bs costs when modding and how much damage it does and how quick enemies will be killed when activated. This make some people use bs over shuriken.

 

·       The marking mechanic makes the ability ineffective in close-quarter, tight spaces which is what  the majority of the tilesets are, this makes the ability less effective and mostly useless even more so it a team.

 

·       You can`t pick and choose what enemies you want to kill; (which people claim you can do) on paper it makes sense however in practise the idea is not useful. For example, if you wanted to mark an energy eximus in-between two other enemies and you only have enough energy to mark one enemy, you are not able to.

 

Reasons;

· Enemies are running around to where you will either run out of energy or you simply can`t mark the eximus.

· You will have to stand there trying to mark that one enemy.

· You have a chance to get hit by a stray bullet or by an explosion whether you use your 2nd ability or not.

· If you’re playing in a team, someone WILL take the kill from you.

· Teleport can do it better and is faster at it. (this alone destroys the purpose of using it that way)

9

 

4th Ability: Blade Storm

Spoiler

·       When activating the ability, it will start instantly.

·       Pressing the ability will bring you into the animation while holding the ability will send clones out to kill instead of you.

·       If you want to jump out of bs, press the ability again and the clones will continue to kill enemies.

·       Enemies that are red can be killed by players.

·       There is no limit to how many enemies he can kill within the 20m radius of the enemy he`s aiming at.

·       On deactivation or when blade storm ends whole in the animation, Ash teleports back to the position where he activated it.

·       While his 2nd ability is active enemies won`t be able to detect Ash or enemies killed when in close proximity.

·       You sentinel will not only be invulnerable but will also visually disappear while in the animation, this also including pickups from vacuum.

·       An indicator is shown of the number of enemies that are going to be killed by bs.

·       Sliding before activating will increase the animation and clones` attack speed by 20%.

Note: I will say this, idm if their was a way to make being in the animation interactive instead of not interacting with it.

1

 

Why this logically makes blade storm better;

 

·       Ash`s bs is still slow when it comes to dps however, at lease because it`s an instant activation, he will at least get to the enemies 1st before any other frame`s damage ability does.

·       The current bs we have now made him absolutely useless in a team but with my changes, at least in a high-level mission he can kill more efficiently which in turn make the team less likely to get downed.

·       The choice of whether you want to be in the animations or not is much easier to pull off. The way it is now, if you use bs and you want to join the animation, but you have no energy you can’t join it even through it`s not meant to cost any energy to do so.

·       The indicator lets you know when you can use bs again.

·       Other people can take his kills while bs is still active which won`t matter coz of the amount of enemies he can kill.

 

Since Ash doesn`t have any synergy (or any good ones) here are some that will improve his performance;

Synergies

Spoiler

Smoke Screen + Shuriken, Teleport & Blade Storm:

·       If you use any ability while you`re invisible, enemy bodies will disappear.

·       If you teleport to an enemy while you are invisible you will stun enemies around you and increase the smoke cloud duration to 15 seconds.

 

Shuriken + Teleport:

·       Using the 1st ability on an enemy will show their health bar through walls longer, making you able to teleport to them as long as they are continually receiving bleeding ticks.

 

Shuriken + Blade Storm:

To increase the damage of bs you must use shuriken. As long as enemies continuously keep receiving bleeding ticks, your damage will increase over time with no limit.

·       Enemies need to be alive and bleeding from the 1st ability for bs to build up damage.

·       If no enemies are affected by slash, you will have five seconds before the damage is lost.

·       If the five seconds is up, the stored-up damage will decay overtime instead of disappearing completely.

·       There will be an indicator showing the amount of damage you are accumulating and the amount of time you have left.

·       If you get downed, the timer won`t start until you are revived.

3

There are some issues with Ash that need to be fixed

Spoiler

·      While using blade storm, pickups are attached to Ash`s body and get in the way visually.

·      When bs ends, the camera is fixed in one place and doesn’t move with Ash.

·       Make Ash consistently be able to teleport in and out of the same grates/fan instead of just one direction.

·       Make opening enemies up to finishers consistent with 3rd ability.

·       Sometime ash is glitched and stabbing the air and he is unseen when using bs due to camera angle.

·       Sometimes the visuals of the clones change from a hologram, original ash and ash prime look, make the “clones” look like whatever variant your using (like wukong`s 1st ability).

·       When blade storm is done, Ash doesn’t appear at the same place he started at but instead it teleports him in a different location.

1

At the time ash was ranked the number 1 favourite warframe by votes on Mogamu`s channel in 2016. Now he is one of the least played warframe stated by DE themselves on life of rio`s video in 2018.

Proof:

Mogamu`s vids https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adLohAFoWQc

Life of rio`s vids https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJRx6oTxF1Y

 

My re-visit to Ash makes him strategic in missions, more effective in stealth gameplay, gives him better and useful synergies, makes him more of an efficient killer in the art of assassination and makes him have a use in a team.

If you want a visual understanding of how some of my ideas can be implemented check out page 7.

Below is a list of players that support my idea of Blade Storm and wanted to see this happen. I have gathered these names by speaking to people on the mic when I’m in missions. (PS4 players) This has been an ongoing process since August 2017.(I stopped around feb 2018) I know you won`t read all of this but the point is to show how serious I am about my ideas and for Ash to get a revisit.

Spoiler

XXBigfarmerXX

Music_life_123

Braysoul

agranator

Honeybackninja

Faimpower88

Bigtonkatruck21

Faiz2000a

Kyuubi_Naruto10

Chambles

James30032303

Emos_East

Mystic form

Pho_shizzle69

WHATSUP294

NOTlesnoto

Rorshanck

HALOCREEPER749

Ice Man_FG80

Darkshadow120552

Zaykiller20

jms_interiors

stuntmonkios-jnr

maskedviper11

WHITE_MOON2

Buck_SHOT56789

Phirestorm12

xXCarbon129Xx

HavocMonkeys

KirbyGirl2000

reese490

KingOfMiami25

Insomniacmob

brcl671

M4T848R1X

Treyshawnkilla23

ZXTER_RUDENT

zeywardDaGreat

StreeBall51

UNKNOWN_GAMER77

DaLaminite

The_Duch99

Never3nder_87

Roses152

Zurin

nightsfallen

scorched_lungs

Rook1Castle

YuvalFrankel12

Jodhuabeaud

kingIshyyYt

X_Smartyroyal_X

huhicanttink457

LarxxinEnrag

jaygates3

True_Rippers_Tvd

Temperest_Titan40

SGTCookieCrum

NextBigThing1738

bEON1_ _

sivbrood

Camrocm8

Deadshot199582

Saridman

Ruck7825

Xristo_CRT7

Slade99998000

drakenmage

lrunno

IkronosTitan

ShameNi99a

Hintero

tamur26

bout_yhat_life79

lil_scwub

CREPUSCULER

Ctrl-khaos

XxsovereignSonxX

Dark0789star

Ay_Tip

stunningwolf

DubSkrill

YJgeezus

Sl33py42087

Red-Clone

Fammilyguy

ajcoolman455

CynicalOverloard

XenoSamus

xzAngel_of_Death

CodenameN

ZeppelinPage

K1N9_M4RC69

Beastlygodz2021

RevenantKing

Corvette58

Megatron5488

Sahovah

donavanbartley21

dylanman242

awosniak66

ShinningAgito000

Darkdeimos11

Lightbeest

Ohstyla_

YG1972

BlackTony_92

Blitzser4

Alcatraz1437

Grutup

DragonSlayer3397

GrossAnimeTrash

lolkid654

D3adTrippin

Ravo842

o0_ShadoW_EfFeCt

agentcurlyfries

crazycocmonkey

Jay_GoToSavage

PaPiYuRi

oTc-DeathAngel-

TrulyWiken

xRebelFunnerx818

Tr34d14L

LIL-GLADIATOR-JR

DynamicTwinStar

DEaD-SaVage500

iDonTLiKLockDoOr

PSYCHO-_-HAYZEE

Evilninja43

stripyCrafish

ZeywardDaGreat

PownManager

Apollos_pain2002

GrimmWolfen

Kazunori_Mishima

CaptianFleetfoot

Momoboy671

QuesoLuvsHenny

Micko19588_

UncrossedRelic

Metralha365

jaydaringleader

seemore807

Iron1Man

Trace_the_Sky

Kvngtay122

Coolbreeze5519

Wchillinman

Xx_LordSavitarxX

Stonerkitty101

destynemoses

diav3tic_ferret

Ahmen141200

TheHiman2105173

JM-David

Assassin_X_14

RACOON445

nicpayne713

Hakim_Yagami

Zextaven

PonU_Sage

Asthmatic17

StellatedSpace

Franklinia

XeniSamus

Friztfrost

EyesMoecrocs

JustTheTip2005

TTOLLIVER1

Deanscott08

xl-1995

wooby84

Honor_o

Antocast

Sour_Chiesel

MohPlus

Tieeman GoD_BeAsT_SlaYeR

Powis19

Ghost511121

cxycee

Knight_templar41

Genicide03

Kallegoods

Pob_Tsuas_xD

guitarchitect

Willard_heard

DrRepaz

Senpai_710

_matt_killz007

ThDarkLord26

Jivpun

Chimpysaurus

Jarkaron

Kundtz-KGZD

Gjrm4

Komik36

Davenom13

Andyzilc

MLG_PEARS

Rcakiller

RACOON445

DrewCar

HybridHippo_

Knuzze

John_carter3gg

GeeBraSi

NoCeiIingz

Hargensmash

XXJayXZaiXx

Eaxboyed

TheKillers_ksa

Tawhiri844

KriS_Fox75

Blu3Drago56

PrimalHunt69

splatdog

GumbotronDaDon

THE_BLUE_BUNNY

PluTo420

Galactico37

XoneGhost

Kingkushin120

ajay_milan

SacredSunshine

Jz7266

Bigkey812

ScYthemcee

RazgrizBlitz

PukkaMeaney

Terry978

CNotee226

Kobethekid3

styLashShyol

jekeAylward

AceRoyal

NOTERB6

bird-man0311

RIN-MIYAMOTO

SKY_ARMEY18

lets254go88

javiet5808

The_Bloxz

collflame1343

colbyyate

alb_man20

volk777000

defario0327

Lordkaisinel

DeltaGamer4

PongoBunny

aadams1997

whitekight51093

dpool7199

Frostykillroy

grimjow196

Jakku818

Santana051

Artcash_king

oMerkzYou

ixXplicitRedDik

jekyfish

yg6l17

semi3001

Orenski

Kestrelslade

ITALIAN_MAFIA

Dublincore

IVRuleVI

hahabananas

ManLikeButter

Alvo_Rackd_up

SnipEzThRice

Technoman6869

DraconiaKin1179

HellGangster144

The-Hedehog32

MDmoney400

Lemamori980

CRACK_SMACK

CheekSpork

Dorit05man55

Hailings

FTN-FUTIIN-F

Leoendithas3

Online_Fighter14

graygoose

SpecterSmoke30

OopsYourself

NickIsDaddyA

Twojuan

Boilerhogbc

stoga1561

thikins

QPGAMERBOII

stephano567

vsniper1014

Nick_a21766

knuckles0022

woodlandloki1

Player_Deaths

shadow1135

FearTheDuck09

chazzerbox

Big_Rob_313

Zechridoes

MagilcSoxx

Chompamonster

stnick1212

Kai_Naputi

Fairfied

boilerhogbc

The_CEO_01

RiseingPhoenix

ItzBL00dyL0L

xXonyx_OccultXx

SilverxCaper

Unicorn_on_roids

ILIIGREEDIILI

Reflex_Str3aks

ZoomF1441

IIInion

AwesoneSauce72

Deadlox2413

wheelerTequila

Sabertooth160

Lummoxed1

GTA_COD_007

Ze_Pink_Panther5

psychodaddy3

canberraboy

THELEGEND27178

Kiritov70

Reaper240-_-

cannis_

Big_Rob_313

thefamilyman00

Mariijudnero

shmeagolTheDerp

malcommc20

EpicTHUNDER19

Chic-chick

jmacsnuffy

P-TOWN122123

oOTRiiGGAOo

Zwaks

Techmagi

SparkMax

Darksoul5654687

KIERO_---13

Clayman511

GK_NOVA_6929

InverseExtra

DCXGOD

C0rrupt0r_07

RADIATION1128

Frogbay8000

Buckaroo_Bonsai

Shadow_Gamer_13

liltana

Sageboy671

playerX88

wolfpack2200

SAIYANKNIGHTJETL

DAEMonRaco

SevenSINsPanda

Alphasher248

Kiddjordan1Up

Terror-McFluff

Techmagi

TakenikoKOIZUMI

TheRedDragon29

Mr_wibblesworth

XxShadowEdge9Xx

Ebderof_Days

beal344457

Shortcut1798

thatonemattyguy

XChronoaX

fl637ex

yungn_

M4rtialVzZ

GodZ_MTZ

Thebagelar4ever

DeadshotAWESOME

royalhollow0

FangedGiraffe6

BROTHERGUNS3435

bigdoctabrett

o0skullking0o

slapy3058

thundarr808

BLAZERAMA232

supersrirama8

EagleKnight_x3

hjdad43

YOGATTI

Get_Lifed_EST93

kenshinhimura422

Lordkindle1117

Coldrlz

wolfnightwalkera

pedroRODRIGUEZ

TheFiveD

sonny_flame

Levy915

Manticoresrame

Alastor-Hakai9

KingSquirrelton

KvngGohan106

twisted_smile

zakattak113

SimpleBananaMan

Guess_Who_Bro96

oj_the_great1

elvishmedal5610

XKakimazeruX

Silent_Droid245

zelltwin2

Angry_PIloT_33

Sashi13

LuisHRG66

BH34DEAD

ALX-DANCEMAKER

Daytonlife

baconzilla11

BlackiChan550

Broil_n_Oil

xAstro97

starxdust95

Quantic_Hazard

Moradeyo110

Ritch-D

Norway_kill940

zachSabeth

gamebo5000

Publickillers

THENAML3SS

U_Suk_At_Lyfe

SolfirAtomist

alois198812

kempher

SharKiller1027

millibandz

RxApollZz

mars_9911

bonebra

ASIANVOLLEYBALL8

Mr_Aphael

kehior

b_elenes246

zombie103warssmt

super_sayene_4

UchihaOfLegend

Tieeman

letsbounse

Ace_Alteon077

Berettax05

vers_queen

ALL_IN_AIE

bobbyhill03

LORDCACO

Titchgamer

KingArtillant

XxlightsoulxX382

ASLT86

keep_calm693

BattleMonkay7

cazazombies245

 

I will be updating this (EVERY FRIDAY). You can look in the comment section of me talking from more ideas to past events relating to Ash. So if you want to know more, follow this post.

To view them go to each page, hold CTRL F and type VEXX-INFO to view them.

If you have any questions about my revisit to Ash just ask me. To find answers to questions you have which has been answered (which I will let you know If I have) press ctrl & F then type Q&A to find them.

And just to make this clear.. I`m giving Ash a REVISIT not a rework.

Here is the difference between a rework and a revisit.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1170539-what-is-the-difference-between-a-rework-and-a-revisit/

 

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757
  • Like 51
Link to post
Share on other sites

1. I appreciate you sorting things by using the hidden contents feature.

2. I love a lot of your changes and hope that DE sees this.  Making him better at killing groups of enemies by flying around and covering the field in smoke would be AWESOME.  I'm sure it would be enough to revive the character and move him away from the Rolling Guard + Invisibility only playstyle that I see people doing.

  • Like 10
Link to post
Share on other sites

Like the ideas for smoke screen, or even make him leave smoke behind him as he run like James Bonds car with some CC, that would be awesome. 4Head

IMO Bladestorm should be cone of view with like 15m fixed range around innitial target and with slight delay (just like ember 4 pretty much). So you can run, mark group of mobs instantly, turn around and proceeed to kill different mobs while your holograms doing their job, also have to wait for animation to end before using BS again. This way you can still do lots of kills but its not spammable and it has fixed range around innitial target so no press 4 to win and makes you think where to aim to do most kills.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

My suggestion for Ash is, and always will be, to replace his 4 with a 'Hunter mode'. Enemies are shown through walls, and their hearts (or power cores for robots) are revealed as a glowing point in their body. In this mode, casting 1 summons distant clones that fire shurikens from other angles (all at once if in an open area, or one-at-a-time if in narrow spaces). Casting 2 deploys close-range clones to engage opponents in melee, and casting 3 deploys clones to perform finishers around your teleport target. While in the mode, there's either a drain over time, a decrease in power efficiency, or both (to compensate for the additional effects). Hitting a target's heart/core with your weapon deals true damage, and possibly some measure of punch-through bonus in doing so. With the addition of Parazon finishers, you could even make a unique finisher option using the Parazon or Ash's oldschool Dark Dagger for special (and quick) finishers.

Visual Example of glowing hearts from The Darkness II:

The-Darkness-II-small-21.jpg

  • Like 10
Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, LoneWolveYT said:

1. I appreciate you sorting things by using the hidden contents feature.

2. I love a lot of your changes and hope that DE sees this.  Making him better at killing groups of enemies by flying around and covering the field in smoke would be AWESOME.  I'm sure it would be enough to revive the character and move him away from the Rolling Guard + Invisibility only playstyle that I see people doing.

Yes I hope they will. When I see Ash players in missions it`s most of them are there just to be invisible and that`s it Ash atm can`t do anything to help the team my idea changes that and since Ash`s 2nd deluxe skin is in development, I`m hoping they will make some changes to Ash to improve his abilities more so his blade storm. Also you said "a lot" so what ideas of mine you don`t like?

20 hours ago, peterc3 said:

-snip-

No since my idea is an improvement for the person using the ability and the other players with Ash plus it has no downsides.

4 hours ago, Benour said:

IMO Bladestorm should be cone of view

You are entitled to you opinion but why should he be the only one to get a cone while saryn, equinox, mag and oberon is affected by radius? and most likely that idea is affected by los and that I don`t approve of. With my idea it`s quick and simple with no downsides. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Vexx-info: I have an idea to make bs more interactive and more rewarding when you are in the animation. Tell me what you guys think.

 

Interactive blade storm animation

If you don`t want to be in the animation, it will act as normal however if you decide to be involved in the animation, you have a chance to gain bonus duration of slash ticks and 1% animation speed increase in the next use however, you have to be interactive within the animation.

 

While in the animation;

·       You have to press the melee button in sink when his stabs enemies in the animation.

·       When doing so, there is an indicator showing the buffs and successful hits which will be converted into duration of slash ticks and animation speed increase.

·       The more successful hits you get the more animation speed you can get in the next use e.g. 10 successful hits = 10% animation speed.

·       The maximus slash duration bonus you can receive is 7 seconds.

·       If you jump out of bs you will lose the bonuses.

·       The bonuses slash tick duration will also include all weapon types. (even weapons that don’t have slash)

·       If you don`t interact with at least five animation cutscenes (depending on how many enemies affected) and get three successful hits, you will only deal half of bs damage. (2000 damage + no interaction = 1000 damage.

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-01-03 at 2:52 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Yes I hope they will. When I see Ash players in missions it`s most of them are there just to be invisible and that`s it Ash atm can`t do anything to help the team my idea changes that and since Ash`s 2nd deluxe skin is in development, I`m hoping they will make some changes to Ash to improve his abilities more so his blade storm. Also you said "a lot" so what ideas of mine you don`t like?

No since my idea is an improvement for the person using the ability and the other players with Ash plus it has no downsides.

You are entitled to you opinion but why should he be the only one to get a cone while saryn, equinox, mag and oberon is affected by radius? and most likely that idea is affected by los and that I don`t approve of. With my idea it`s quick and simple with no downsides. 

 

Ash the only one with a cone ? You mean like Mesa, Ember, Frost or Atlas ?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

What do you think of my improvements to Ash?

I think making BS ignore LoS and centered a targeted enemy is basically old BS, which was OP and provoked the (sad) current state.

I know Saryn doesn't give a damn about LoS but she's getting the nerfbat treatment soon. 

Ash is an assassin, not a nuker, but I still think in a horde game every frame should be able to affect (in his case, kill) a group of enemy, and BS in its current form is barely doing that (unless you wiggle your mouse like a frenetic and hope your allies don't kill your targets in less than a second)

I think Ember's 4 rework should have been applied a long time ago to Ash's 4 : aiming at a group enemies you see (not behind walls in other rooms) should mark them instantly and send the clones instantly (no "assassin mod" gimmick), allowing you to quickly take care of other targets while your ninja shadows are doing their job

If you want the old animation of BS as an option by using Teleport, I have no problem with that, it was a good trick to replenish Ash (decent) shield pool (especially if you run Primed Vigor) and energy while being invincible :)

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-01-02 at 11:55 AM, peterc3 said:

Basically a return to old BS. No.

There was nothing wrong with old bs. 

litterally the only change they should have done was make jumping in with wf be optional via holding down 4 or just tapping 4 to do bs without joining. thpse few seconds of invulnerable + carrier vacuum were precious to stay alive in 60m survive or high level high wave def. 

Having to spin as a top is the dumbest idea ever when litterally all other frames are quick cast and even weapons kill faster than ash. 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Spam661 said:

There was nothing wrong with old bs. 

A ranged AoE with no LoS requirements, beyond the first enemy, that locked enemies and the user into a rather long animation with a relatively low cost and that essentially excluded other players from playing the game.

Everything was wrong with it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, peterc3 said:

A ranged AoE with no LoS requirements, beyond the first enemy, that locked enemies and the user into a rather long animation with a relatively low cost and that essentially excluded other players from playing the game.

Everything was wrong with it.

oh you mean like litterally every other frame with a decent ultimate in the game. game is all about grinding and killing enemies asap. Its already too grindy and you want to make it worse? lmao. 

I bet youre one of those people that play low level missions and then complain everything dies too fast haha! 😂😂

 

and like i said but i guess you fail to read that locking the player in was the only bad thing and it should have been optional.  I didn't see anyone complaining about ash doing his job at wave 40 in a t3 defense lol. frost did his job trin did his job, ash did his job, all was good. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Spam661 said:

it should have been optional

So a ranged attack with a potentially massive range AoE that you use and forget. That would have made it worse from a game design perspective.

5 minutes ago, Spam661 said:

I didn't see anyone complaining about ash doing his job at wave 40 in a t3 defense lol. frost did his job trin did his job, ash did his job, all was good. 

This is precisely a piece of the reason the Void Keys are no more. That wasn't fun and DE isn't interested in bringing that gameplay back.

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

So a ranged attack with a potentially massive range AoE that you use and forget. That would have made it worse from a game design perspective.

This is precisely a piece of the reason the Void Keys are no more. That wasn't fun and DE isn't interested in bringing that gameplay back.

what are you even talking about? How do you forget it exactly?  

And if you didnt like ash you didn't have to play with it. just like when I see limbo I leave. but I dont whine about getting rid of limbos 4. 

and boring people like you are the reason the fun is quickly draining from this game. Ash was FUN. void keys were FUN. long runs were fun especially with a good team. It was a challenge to stay as long as possible. It was good times. 

Nerf to ash and loss of void keys are extactly why I stopped playing. I started again but I see people like you insist on draining the fun out. DE doesn't even know what gameplay it wants anymore. 

Edited by Spam661
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Most of the sugestion are reasonable but there are to points that just make me go. WHY?

On 2020-01-02 at 12:18 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

   If an enemy is killed in one hit it is considered as a stealth kill.

Does not really help and is likely to spawn a new focus farming strategy.

On 2020-01-02 at 12:18 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Sliding before activating will increase the animation and clones` attack speed by 20%.

Just why? This does not really bring anything to the table. It does not bring any meaninfull gameplay and will get annoying really quickly.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-01-02 at 12:18 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

As much as Ash is my main frame, he needs to be looked at again.

The 1st ability is only good with its augment. Augments should be used as an option and not coz the ability on its own is bad, the 2nd ability could benefit by having better cc and even through ppl say that his invisible is too short I have no issue with it, the 3rd ability has potential to be so much better just of the concept of teleportation alone and the 4th ability is terrible when it comes to activation speed, it`s too slow and other ppl can take your kills (even in low levels) and even more things that make it bad.

Overall Ash is a contradiction to what DE wants ppl to do in this game.... PLAY AS A TEAM, that's why he needs to be looked at again and If I were to give him a re-visit, this is what I would do;

Ash:

·       All abilities can be cast while on ziplines.

 

1st Ability: Shuriken

  Hide contents

·       If an enemy is killed in one hit it is considered as a stealth kill.

·       Holding the ability will make both shurikens target the enemy you`re aiming at dealing double slash damage and adds critical damage based on what crit damage mods you have equipped on your melee weapon, also headshots will do more damage.

·       The more health the enemy loses, the slower the enemy moves when bleeding out.

·       When the enemy stops bleeding, it will go back to its normal movement speed.

·       It has a 1 second combo window. The more you use the ability, the more damage it does, the less energy it takes.

·       The built-up damage multi from spamming it can affect the held version of shuriken.

1

This makes Ash more strategic by giving a choice of who he wants to kill and makes him better at killing single target enemies.

 

2nd Ability: Smoke Screen

  Hide contents

·       Increase the cast stun duration to 4 sec.

·       The smoke left behind will last for 10 seconds.

·       The smoke cloud has a 5m radius which can be increased by range mods.

·       Enemies that enter the smoke will have a 6 sec stun duration and are 40% more susceptible to damage. If allies are in the cloud they cannot be targeted by enemies.

·       All stun durations cannot be increased by duration mods.

·       When Ash is invisible, the apparitions from bs are also invisible.

 

There are now new ways you can use this ability;

·       You can use it next to a dangerously high-levelled enemy to stun it and kill it with ease.

·       You can use it to block enemies in doorways. Since the smoke affect duration is 6 seconds and the smoke lasts 10 seconds, enemies will be stuck for a total of 12 seconds.

·       You can protect your allies from enemies` sight with smoke cloud.

·       If you mod for less duration and more range, it will turn it into a better cc ability.

4

These improvement makes this ability strategic and you have more than one way to use the ability.

 

 

3rd Ability: Teleport

  Hide contents

·       Holding the ability will show an indicator of where he can teleport to from the radical but the range is hafted.

·       Teleporting to a wall will make ash hang to the wall for 3 seconds.

·       Not only it can teleport to anything with a health bar, it can also teleport to anything that can be scanned.

·       You can teleport through windows if there are allies, npcs, enemies, objects with a health bar or is scannable objects on the other side of it.

·       You are able to teleport to enemies that are in the air.

·       After teleporting in the air, performing melee attacks will keep him in the air.

2

These tweaks Ash`s 3rd ability will improve his teleporting abilities and gives him the option from focus enemy targeting to teleporting anywhere with less limitations.

 

Before I get into bs here are the current problems with bs;

  Hide contents

·       The two stages of the killing process make bs slow, because of this, other players can take his kills before you get a chance to kill them which makes him not helpful in the team, not fun to play and in a fast-pasted game this is bad.

 

·       Marking enemies for some players is sickening because of the motion of moving the cursor onto enemies, even though it`s easier (but still a problem) to do this using a mouse, doing this on a controller is not as easy, an ability should be able to be easy to use no matter what you use.

 

·       Because enemies are highlighted by your chosen energy colour, it will make enemies more visible to other players to go and kill them which in their minds is a top priority.

 

·       If you want the full damage of bs, you have to mark the enemies three times which will slow you down or  makes you stationary (if you want to do it quickly) to mark enemies with three marks. In low-level missions, your energy will be refunded back to you if you over mark and in high levels you obviously going to want the full damage of it so there is absolutely no point in having to choose the amount of damage you want to dish out. With the old bs, you had the full damage regardless.

 

·       Bodies disappearing makes it to where you can`t bring him in a desecrating team with a nekros. While bodies disappearing makes sense on paper for him being a ninja and I like the idea, unfortunately, this just makes him a problem in that team.

 

·       The indicator shows how many marks instead of how many enemies affected by bs. Because of this, you have no idea how many enemies are going to be killed. If it showed how many enemies affected by bs, it will let the play know when to use bs again.

 

·       Using your 2nd ability to use less energy is not synergy. Synergy is meant to be a choice that makes a difference in missions however, this so-called synergy is a must to use it consistently which makes it a bad gimmick.

 

·       Using the 3rd ability to join the animation costs no energy but you need energy to be able to use it which makes no sense plus, in low-level missions, sometimes you`re not even going to get a chance use your 3rd ability because the apparitions have killed the enemies already. (depending on how many enemies you mark)

 

·       Apparitions (clones) appearance is not consistent. The visuals go from looking like you custom coloured Ash to a hologram version, to the original ash look with default colours. Also, this is a bug that the old bs had which means it has not been fixed.

 

·       When marking, you can`t mark enemies that are behind walls or objects which make you have to run around searching for enemies to kill and if you in a team, your marked enemies will be killed off by your teammates.

 

·       Even if Ash`s damage has increased to 2,000, (his damage now is still great) the damage is not as good compared to the old bs. The apparitions of the old bs was like Saryn`s 1st ability damage but slightly better, (and the terminator) the apparitions would not stop killing until the enemies were dead and even though attack speed mods can increase their killing speed, with the current bs, the apparitions only attack three times however the bleeding damage speed cannot.

 

·       You can`t pick and choose what enemies you want to kill; (which people claim you can do) on paper it makes sense however in practise the idea is not useful. For example, if you wanted to mark an energy eximus in-between two other enemies and you only have enough energy to mark one enemy, you are not able to.

 

Reasons;

· Enemies are running around to where you will either run out of energy or you simply can`t mark the eximus.

· You will have to stand there trying to mark that one enemy.

· You have a chance to get hit by a stray bullet or by an explosion whether you use your 2nd ability or not.

· If you’re playing in a team, someone WILL take the kill from you.

· Teleport can do it better and is faster at it. (this alone destroys the purpose of using it that way)

9

 

4th Ability: Blade Storm

  Hide contents

·       When activating the ability, it will start instantly.

·       Pressing the ability will bring you into the animation while holding the ability will send clones out to kill instead of you.

·       If you want to jump out of bs, press the ability again and the clones will continue to kill enemies.

·       Enemies that are red can be killed by players.

·       There is no limit to how many enemies he can kill within the radius of the enemy he`s aiming at.

·       An indicator is shown of the number of enemies that are going to be killed by bs.

·       Sliding before activating will increase the animation and clones` attack speed by 20%.

1

Why this logically makes blade storm better;

 

·       Ash`s bs is still slow when it comes to dps however, at lease because it`s an instant activation, he will at least get to the enemies 1st before any other frame`s damage ability does.

·       The current bs we have now made him absolutely useless in a team but with my changes, at least in a high-level mission he can kill more efficiently which in turn make the team less likely to get downed.

·       The choice of whether you want to be in the animations or not is much easier to pull off. The way it is now, if you use bs and you want to join the animation, but you have no energy you can’t join it even through it`s not meant to cost any energy to do so.

·       The indicator lets you know when you can use bs again.

·       Other people can take his kills while bs is still active which won`t matter coz of the amount of enemies he can kill.

 

Since Ash doesn`t have any synergy (or any good ones) here are some that will improve his performance;

Synergies

  Hide contents

Smoke Screen + Shuriken, Teleport:

·       If you use any ability while you`re invisible, enemy bodies will disappear.

·       The energy cost will also be cut down by half.

·       If you teleport to an enemy while you are invisible you will stun enemies around you and increase the smoke cloud duration to 15 seconds.

 

Shuriken + Teleport:

·       Using the 1st ability on an enemy will show their health bar through walls longer, making you able to teleport to them as long as they are continually receiving bleeding ticks.

 

Shuriken + Blade Storm:

To increase the damage of bs you must use shuriken. As long as enemies continuously keep receiving bleeding ticks, your damage will increase over time with no limit.

·       Enemies need to be alive and bleeding from the 1st ability for bs to build up damage.

·       If no enemies are affected by slash, you will have five seconds before the damage is lost.

·       If the five seconds is up, the stored-up damage will decay overtime instead of disappearing completely.

·       There will be an indicator showing the amount of damage you are accumulating and the amount of time you have left.

·       If you get downed, the timer won`t start until you are revived.

3

There are some issues with Ash that need to be fixed

  Hide contents

·       Make Ash be able to teleport in and out of the same grates instead of just one direction.

·       Make opening enemies up to finishers consistent with 3rd ability.

·       Sometime ash is glitched and stabbing the air and he is unseen when using bs due to camera angle.

·       Make the “clones” look like him (like wukong`s 1st ability) instead of looking like a hologram.

·       When blade storm is done, Ash doesn’t appear at the same place he started at but instead is teleported in a different location.

1

 

My re-visit to Ash makes him strategic in missions, more effective in stealth gameplay, gives him better and useful synergies, makes him more of an efficient killer in the art of assassination and makes him have a use in a team.

I liked your version

 

On 2020-01-02 at 12:18 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

As much as Ash is my main frame, he needs to be looked at again.

The 1st ability is only good with its augment. Augments should be used as an option and not coz the ability on its own is bad, the 2nd ability could benefit by having better cc and even through ppl say that his invisible is too short I have no issue with it, the 3rd ability has potential to be so much better just of the concept of teleportation alone and the 4th ability is terrible when it comes to activation speed, it`s too slow and other ppl can take your kills (even in low levels) and even more things that make it bad.

Overall Ash is a contradiction to what DE wants ppl to do in this game.... PLAY AS A TEAM, that's why he needs to be looked at again and If I were to give him a re-visit, this is what I would do;

Ash:

·       All abilities can be cast while on ziplines.

 

1st Ability: Shuriken

  Hide contents

·       If an enemy is killed in one hit it is considered as a stealth kill.

·       Holding the ability will make both shurikens target the enemy you`re aiming at dealing double slash damage and adds critical damage based on what crit damage mods you have equipped on your melee weapon, also headshots will do more damage.

·       The more health the enemy loses, the slower the enemy moves when bleeding out.

·       When the enemy stops bleeding, it will go back to its normal movement speed.

·       It has a 1 second combo window. The more you use the ability, the more damage it does, the less energy it takes.

·       The built-up damage multi from spamming it can affect the held version of shuriken.

1

This makes Ash more strategic by giving a choice of who he wants to kill and makes him better at killing single target enemies.

 

2nd Ability: Smoke Screen

  Hide contents

·       Increase the cast stun duration to 4 sec.

·       The smoke left behind will last for 10 seconds.

·       The smoke cloud has a 5m radius which can be increased by range mods.

·       Enemies that enter the smoke will have a 6 sec stun duration and are 40% more susceptible to damage. If allies are in the cloud they cannot be targeted by enemies.

·       All stun durations cannot be increased by duration mods.

·       When Ash is invisible, the apparitions from bs are also invisible.

 

There are now new ways you can use this ability;

·       You can use it next to a dangerously high-levelled enemy to stun it and kill it with ease.

·       You can use it to block enemies in doorways. Since the smoke affect duration is 6 seconds and the smoke lasts 10 seconds, enemies will be stuck for a total of 12 seconds.

·       You can protect your allies from enemies` sight with smoke cloud.

·       If you mod for less duration and more range, it will turn it into a better cc ability.

4

These improvement makes this ability strategic and you have more than one way to use the ability.

 

 

3rd Ability: Teleport

  Hide contents

·       Holding the ability will show an indicator of where he can teleport to from the radical but the range is hafted.

·       Teleporting to a wall will make ash hang to the wall for 3 seconds.

·       Not only it can teleport to anything with a health bar, it can also teleport to anything that can be scanned.

·       You can teleport through windows if there are allies, npcs, enemies, objects with a health bar or is scannable objects on the other side of it.

·       You are able to teleport to enemies that are in the air.

·       After teleporting in the air, performing melee attacks will keep him in the air.

2

These tweaks Ash`s 3rd ability will improve his teleporting abilities and gives him the option from focus enemy targeting to teleporting anywhere with less limitations.

 

Before I get into bs here are the current problems with bs;

  Hide contents

·       The two stages of the killing process make bs slow, because of this, other players can take his kills before you get a chance to kill them which makes him not helpful in the team, not fun to play and in a fast-pasted game this is bad.

 

·       Marking enemies for some players is sickening because of the motion of moving the cursor onto enemies, even though it`s easier (but still a problem) to do this using a mouse, doing this on a controller is not as easy, an ability should be able to be easy to use no matter what you use.

 

·       Because enemies are highlighted by your chosen energy colour, it will make enemies more visible to other players to go and kill them which in their minds is a top priority.

 

·       If you want the full damage of bs, you have to mark the enemies three times which will slow you down or  makes you stationary (if you want to do it quickly) to mark enemies with three marks. In low-level missions, your energy will be refunded back to you if you over mark and in high levels you obviously going to want the full damage of it so there is absolutely no point in having to choose the amount of damage you want to dish out. With the old bs, you had the full damage regardless.

 

·       Bodies disappearing makes it to where you can`t bring him in a desecrating team with a nekros. While bodies disappearing makes sense on paper for him being a ninja and I like the idea, unfortunately, this just makes him a problem in that team.

 

·       The indicator shows how many marks instead of how many enemies affected by bs. Because of this, you have no idea how many enemies are going to be killed. If it showed how many enemies affected by bs, it will let the play know when to use bs again.

 

·       Using your 2nd ability to use less energy is not synergy. Synergy is meant to be a choice that makes a difference in missions however, this so-called synergy is a must to use it consistently which makes it a bad gimmick.

 

·       Using the 3rd ability to join the animation costs no energy but you need energy to be able to use it which makes no sense plus, in low-level missions, sometimes you`re not even going to get a chance use your 3rd ability because the apparitions have killed the enemies already. (depending on how many enemies you mark)

 

·       Apparitions (clones) appearance is not consistent. The visuals go from looking like you custom coloured Ash to a hologram version, to the original ash look with default colours. Also, this is a bug that the old bs had which means it has not been fixed.

 

·       When marking, you can`t mark enemies that are behind walls or objects which make you have to run around searching for enemies to kill and if you in a team, your marked enemies will be killed off by your teammates.

 

·       Even if Ash`s damage has increased to 2,000, (his damage now is still great) the damage is not as good compared to the old bs. The apparitions of the old bs was like Saryn`s 1st ability damage but slightly better, (and the terminator) the apparitions would not stop killing until the enemies were dead and even though attack speed mods can increase their killing speed, with the current bs, the apparitions only attack three times however the bleeding damage speed cannot.

 

·       You can`t pick and choose what enemies you want to kill; (which people claim you can do) on paper it makes sense however in practise the idea is not useful. For example, if you wanted to mark an energy eximus in-between two other enemies and you only have enough energy to mark one enemy, you are not able to.

 

Reasons;

· Enemies are running around to where you will either run out of energy or you simply can`t mark the eximus.

· You will have to stand there trying to mark that one enemy.

· You have a chance to get hit by a stray bullet or by an explosion whether you use your 2nd ability or not.

· If you’re playing in a team, someone WILL take the kill from you.

· Teleport can do it better and is faster at it. (this alone destroys the purpose of using it that way)

9

 

4th Ability: Blade Storm

  Hide contents

·       When activating the ability, it will start instantly.

·       Pressing the ability will bring you into the animation while holding the ability will send clones out to kill instead of you.

·       If you want to jump out of bs, press the ability again and the clones will continue to kill enemies.

·       Enemies that are red can be killed by players.

·       There is no limit to how many enemies he can kill within the radius of the enemy he`s aiming at.

·       An indicator is shown of the number of enemies that are going to be killed by bs.

·       Sliding before activating will increase the animation and clones` attack speed by 20%.

1

Why this logically makes blade storm better;

 

·       Ash`s bs is still slow when it comes to dps however, at lease because it`s an instant activation, he will at least get to the enemies 1st before any other frame`s damage ability does.

·       The current bs we have now made him absolutely useless in a team but with my changes, at least in a high-level mission he can kill more efficiently which in turn make the team less likely to get downed.

·       The choice of whether you want to be in the animations or not is much easier to pull off. The way it is now, if you use bs and you want to join the animation, but you have no energy you can’t join it even through it`s not meant to cost any energy to do so.

·       The indicator lets you know when you can use bs again.

·       Other people can take his kills while bs is still active which won`t matter coz of the amount of enemies he can kill.

 

Since Ash doesn`t have any synergy (or any good ones) here are some that will improve his performance;

Synergies

  Hide contents

Smoke Screen + Shuriken, Teleport:

·       If you use any ability while you`re invisible, enemy bodies will disappear.

·       The energy cost will also be cut down by half.

·       If you teleport to an enemy while you are invisible you will stun enemies around you and increase the smoke cloud duration to 15 seconds.

 

Shuriken + Teleport:

·       Using the 1st ability on an enemy will show their health bar through walls longer, making you able to teleport to them as long as they are continually receiving bleeding ticks.

 

Shuriken + Blade Storm:

To increase the damage of bs you must use shuriken. As long as enemies continuously keep receiving bleeding ticks, your damage will increase over time with no limit.

·       Enemies need to be alive and bleeding from the 1st ability for bs to build up damage.

·       If no enemies are affected by slash, you will have five seconds before the damage is lost.

·       If the five seconds is up, the stored-up damage will decay overtime instead of disappearing completely.

·       There will be an indicator showing the amount of damage you are accumulating and the amount of time you have left.

·       If you get downed, the timer won`t start until you are revived.

3

There are some issues with Ash that need to be fixed

  Hide contents

·       Make Ash be able to teleport in and out of the same grates instead of just one direction.

·       Make opening enemies up to finishers consistent with 3rd ability.

·       Sometime ash is glitched and stabbing the air and he is unseen when using bs due to camera angle.

·       Make the “clones” look like him (like wukong`s 1st ability) instead of looking like a hologram.

·       When blade storm is done, Ash doesn’t appear at the same place he started at but instead is teleported in a different location.

1

 

My re-visit to Ash makes him strategic in missions, more effective in stealth gameplay, gives him better and useful synergies, makes him more of an efficient killer in the art of assassination and makes him have a use in a team.

I liked your version

Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, your suggestions for ability 1 and ability 4 are enough for me to love ash again. Those are thoughtful suggestions.

I don't think I've ever seen a warframe ability that can be machine gunned or charged. It's very interesting.

Edited by Redfeather75
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Redfeather75 said:

I never use Ash's first ability unless I build around the augment mod for it.

It does not contribute to fun or function by default.

It kills trash mobs without requiring LoS, even behind a huge cover (feels like it has infinite punch through). Spammed, it can be useful for Exterminate missions, or kill that last enemy stuck inside the wall in a defense (oldest bug ever ?)

I still use the augment on all my builds though, but mainly cause I don't feel the need for the other 3. Now if the augment for his 2 doubled the duration (like it does for Oberon's 2), that would change everything ^^

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Tatann said:

I think Ember's 4 rework should have been applied a long time ago to Ash's 4 : aiming at a group enemies you see (not behind walls in other rooms) should mark them instantly and send the clones instantly (no "assassin mod" gimmick), allowing you to quickly take care of other targets while your ninja shadows are doing their job

If you want the old animation of BS as an option by using Teleport, I have no problem with that, it was a good trick to replenish Ash (decent) shield pool (especially if you run Primed Vigor) and energy while being invincible 🙂

If you actually think about it, it work like the old bs except you are targeting an area instead of aiming at an enemy. I don`t like using the 3rd ability to join them which I explained in my post that why I suggested a press to join the animation while hold will send clones out which is better.

22 hours ago, Spam661 said:

There was nothing wrong with old bs. 

litterally the only change they should have done was make jumping in with wf be optional via holding down 4 or just tapping 4 to do bs without joining.

Having to spin as a top is the dumbest idea ever when litterally all other frames are quick cast and even weapons kill faster than ash. 

Just to be fair it did have some problems;

Old bs problems

Spoiler

· In high-level missions, If Ash used bs, he would be stuck in the animation for a long time if there was an ancient healer around.

· Enemies that are red could not be killed by allies unless they had exalted weapons e.g. Excalibur and Valkyr.

· You could not skip the animation making it to where he couldn`t revive allies and protect pods/npcs in missions.

 

All of these combined made him a problem in missions where you have to kill the enemies to progress and to the team.

1

 As you can see with my ideas, it has no downsides.

Yes your right that is all DE had to do. If you look at my ideas that's what it does and more.

Agreed the marking mechanic should be for cc abilities not damage abilities (inaros` 4th, nyx`s 3rd) this plus it`s hard to use with a controller which proves DE don`t care about console players and that's what ppl don`t understand, they are so blinded by "it does more damage" and "I don't have to join the animation" and such fanboys/girls that they cut ppl down ppl that could see the probs with the ability. The next time you see ppl say the marking mechanic is not a prob ask them if saryn, equinox, banshee and mag got it would they be happy?

Also ppl were complaining about they cant take his kills, he was a prob in defence mission with eximuses and having to always join the animation if ppl could take his kills, bs didn't affect eximuses and you don`t have to join the animation i`m telling you now no one would complain.

 

 


 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ash’s ultimate is useless in team play because other players kill ash’s target before he even get a chance to cast his blade storm. If balance is concerned just make it like ember’s new ultimate, targets large group of enemies instantly but required line of sight.

Edited by DrivaMain
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-01-12 at 2:06 PM, DrivaMain said:

Ash’s ultimate is useless in team play because other players kill ash’s target before he even get a chance to cast his blade storm. If balance is concerned just make it like ember’s new ultimate, targets large group of enemies instantly but required line of sight.

And that's what ppl don`t understand, they are just blinded by damage but in use it`s close to impossible to use affectively in a team. Btw what do you think of my ideas on Ash`s abilities?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to add my twelve cents: Ash used to be my favorite till his "rework." I just really dislike his marking mechanic and it makes me can't stand playing him anymore. I also don't like stealth personally, because it's totally broken cheese in this game and is anti-fashion-frame on top of it. It's actually sad Fallout 76 has better AI VS Stealth than Warframe does and I think it's also sad Ash is getting a 2nd deluxe skin when he'll be invisible most of the time. (his first deluxe is superior to everything in the game anyways).

I'd honestly want Smoke Screen to do something else than Stealth since his is weaker than everyone else's anyways and Ash could focus more on teleports and melee damage.

[ It's like Guild Wars 1 Assassin VS Guild Wars 2 Assassin (Thief): adding Stealth to the class instead of it being teleport/ambush focused like it was previously made it exponentially less interesting and they had a disasterous time balancing it. If you ever played those games as an Assassin main you'd know such pain. ]

Before the rework I played him full power; min duration and never used his stealth but now they try to force some lame synergy to stop his skills from hogging tons of energy. Although his 4 is so unfun to use that I just don't even use it anymore. Marking things just wastes so much time and effort and isn't the least bit entertaining. Most things will be dead already before you even press it the 2nd time by allies with better skills. You're always going to kill faster with your weapon than with his 4. If you try to do it super fast you're just flipping your camera all over the place like a drunk idiot. 

I found his only value in the end to be just building for stealth and never using his other skills, and/or adding smoke screen augment, which is unfortunatly terrible to build around because it needs range mods to do anything. But Octavia can just do that better. 

They did a much better job with Ember and Mesa's 4 where it just casts in front of them, no marking required. His 1 is useless in high level maps and requires the augment to actually do anything. Teleport requires an augment to be fully functional; otherwise there's a 50%+ chance it doesn't properly open enemies to finishers and it requires pinpoint accuracy on an enemy to activate... Mine as well just let me teleport to cursor. He's just a complete mess right now. He went from being my most used to practually never used.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-01-10 at 7:11 AM, Tatann said:

It kills trash mobs without requiring LoS, even behind a huge cover (feels like it has infinite punch through). Spammed, it can be useful for Exterminate missions, or kill that last enemy stuck inside the wall in a defense (oldest bug ever ?)

I still use the augment on all my builds though, but mainly cause I don't feel the need for the other 3. Now if the augment for his 2 doubled the duration (like it does for Oberon's 2), that would change everything ^^

Hey want to say thanks for talking about his shuriken. I use it more now that I know it has punch through like that. Helps me to see where enemies are by looking for the slash procs through the wall. That's a very clever tool!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...