Jump to content

Ash: His current problems and the solutions to fix them


Message added by Letter13,

While there is some excellent feedback in this thread, the thread was only being kept alive by repeated bumping--behavior which is not something we condone on these forums.

Recommended Posts

My opinion on Ash`s leverian

Spoiler

I`m glad that Ash`s leverian is out. Don`t get me wrong the story was interesting and it made Ash have a heart however it was mostly about Dom and Pilio. I don`t really like that Ash was shown as a mentor, I would have rather them talk about missions Ash has been on, his experiences and hardships and how he was created.

The bow that was shown in the leverian imo should have been the paris not the causta since the paris visually suites Ash and ninjas don`t use longbows, it was only added in coz his deluxe skin came out which is a poor excuse to add it in.

I get that ninjas use karmas but I would have rather seen the dragon nikana, Okina or even the dark dagger in the leverian.

All in all, it was ok I just wish it give some lore focusing on Ash only.

 

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

This definitely needs to be reverted. Grime defies and goes against the entire aesthetic of the player-controlled faction.

No offense, art and modelling team, but this doesn't fit the aesthetic of Tenno or Orokin tech. We're literally space ninjas formerly enslaved by gold-obsessed eight-foot-tall body-stealers. Our stuff is organic and flowing in design and overall elegant in aesthetic. It should be beautiful. Our former masters were just as obsessed with grace as they were with petty cruelty and delusions of godhood.

We should be clean. We should be shiny. The conspicuousness this causes in terms of actual stealth is irrelevant, we are space ninja and the focus should always be on what looks gorgeous and intimidating as far as Orokin/Tenno tech goes.

The Grineer are the ones who are the moldering, decaying, polluting, planet-strip-mining, inbred-despite-no-longer-even-having-genitals clone-Nazis. If anybody's equipment should look battered, scraped, muddy, and dusty, it's Grineer's. Not Tenno, not Orokin, and certainly not Primes. Not even the non-Prime skin of Warframes or weapons should be scuffed and smudged like this.

You want to show battle damage? Give us it on Deluxe Skins, Baro offerings, or Event skins. It should never be something outside of player control that's just constantly forced-in, rather than being an option we choose to use or not use.

This is just as annoying as how Saint of Altra broke metal rendering and it still isn't fixed. This is as gross-looking as the new "immersive" forced Adapative Exposure Deadlock Protocol jammed in.

Undo this, DE. Default Ash is preferred by a lot of people, even if they have his Prime; and you've gone and left him looking like a toddler's sucker that was thrown behind the couch and festered for five years in the fuzz and dust.

Edited by Maxim_M_Payne
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, and to add insult to injury? You guys didn't just do it to Ash. I was wondering why a lot of colors seemed desaturated or smeared as of late on the default Warframe skins, and assumed it must have just been a bug. This couldn't be intentional, right?

Well, let's have a little look:

Spoiler

vneYdRk.jpg

Spoiler

jZ1vv2H.jpg

Spoiler

oEWkhak.jpg

Spoiler

x6da3MK.jpg

Spoiler

sCH4kGR.jpg

Spoiler

T4NwPsO.jpg

Spoiler

TNYBssZ.jpg

Spoiler

ksM0rBB.jpg

Spoiler

GjMx3E0.jpg

Spoiler

WO2feRU.jpg

Spoiler

d7YUgI1.jpg

Spoiler

kRCBQKR.jpg

Spoiler

ouOFOge.jpg

Spoiler

aKz2v8r.jpg

Spoiler

ePd0cil.jpg

Spoiler

9Wl6qVR.jpg

Spoiler

iphbl75.jpg

Apparently, the choice was made to deliberately dirty up, desaturate, and/or ding the non-Prime skins of Warframes and weapons, without any players actually wanting or requesting this change. We literally have Tennogen for this. Let community content makers make damaged and dirty designs so we actually have an option about being visually battered and decrepit.

Don't just suddenly turn them into beat-up and/or desaturated-in-color wrecks, especially when they've looked normal and far more aesthetically-pleasing for years prior to the last update. Majorly uncool of you all to sneak this kind of fashion downgrade in alongside Deadlock Protocol.

Please revert our textures. We use our gear literally constantly, it should not look in anyway neglected or antique.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

This definitely needs to be reverted. Grime defies and goes against the entire aesthetic of the player-controlled faction.

No offense, art and modelling team, but this doesn't fit the aesthetic of Tenno or Orokin tech. We're literally space ninjas formerly enslaved by gold-obsessed eight-foot-tall body-stealers. Our stuff is organic and flowing in design and overall elegant in aesthetic. It should be beautiful. Our former masters were just as obsessed with grace as they were with petty cruelty and delusions of godhood.

We should be clean. We should be shiny. The conspicuousness this causes in terms of actual stealth is irrelevant, we are space ninja and the focus should always be on what looks gorgeous and intimidating as far as Orokin/Tenno tech goes.

The Grineer are the ones who are the moldering, decaying, polluting, planet-strip-mining, inbred-despite-no-longer-even-having-genitals clone-Nazis. If anybody's equipment should look battered, scraped, muddy, and dusty, it's Grineer's. Not Tenno, not Orokin, and certainly not Primes. Not even the non-Prime skin of Warframes or weapons should be scuffed and smudged like this.

You want to show battle damage? Give us it on Deluxe Skins, Baro offerings, or Event skins. It should never be something outside of player control that's just constantly forced-in, rather than being an option we choose to use or not use.

This is just as annoying as how Saint of Altra broke metal rendering and it still isn't fixed. This is as gross-looking as the new "immersive" forced Adapative Exposure Deadlock Protocol jammed in.

Undo this, DE. Default Ash is preferred by a lot of people, even if they have his Prime; and you've gone and left him looking like a toddler's sucker that was thrown behind the couch and festered for five years in the fuzz and dust.

Thanks for saying this, and I agree if ppl want that look their should be an option to get it like the rust and tear of the interior of the liset. No one asked for this, it`s unnecessary and uncalled for.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Maxim_M_Payne said:

Oh, and to add insult to injury? You guys didn't just do it to Ash. I was wondering why a lot of colors seemed desaturated or smeared as of late on the default Warframe skins, and assumed it must have just been a bug. This couldn't be intentional, right?

Well, let's have a little look:

  Reveal hidden contents

vneYdRk.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

jZ1vv2H.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

oEWkhak.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

x6da3MK.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

sCH4kGR.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

T4NwPsO.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

TNYBssZ.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

ksM0rBB.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

GjMx3E0.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

WO2feRU.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

d7YUgI1.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

kRCBQKR.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

ouOFOge.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

aKz2v8r.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

ePd0cil.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

9Wl6qVR.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

iphbl75.jpg

Apparently, the choice was made to deliberately dirty up, desaturate, and/or ding the non-Prime skins of Warframes and weapons, without any players actually wanting or requesting this change. We literally have Tennogen for this. Let community content makers make damaged and dirty designs so we actually have an option about being visually battered and decrepit.

Don't just suddenly turn them into beat-up and/or desaturated-in-color wrecks, especially when they've looked normal and far more aesthetically-pleasing for years prior to the last update. Majorly uncool of you all to sneak this kind of fashion downgrade in alongside Deadlock Protocol.

Please revert our textures. We use our gear literally constantly, it should not look in anyway neglected or antique.

 

Are you sure those desaturated colors have anything to do with your settings? Because for me, they look like how they've always look.

Spoiler

Warframe0097.jpg

Spoiler

Warframe0098.jpg

Spoiler

Warframe0099.jpg

Spoiler

Warframe0100.jpg

Not sure if it has to do with the fact of how my graphical settings are set, but that does seems odd.

Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Scruffel said:

Are you sure those desaturated colors have anything to do with your settings?

It's because of the way the materials react to light. It's not that they desaturate colors, rather than Blinn Phong textures react way different and usually is more 1:1 with the color chosen.

Mynki actually adjusted very carefully a few default colors on Excalibur and Volt because of this, which is why the defaults on the Tenno palette don't all match, but then they stopped doing it.

This was very noticeable on Banshee back on the day. In a few cases I've had to do this myself, but it seems that with the latest changes it just looks like this when there's a lot of light in the scene (usually the Arsenal), which is NOT the usual tileset experience, where they look better.

Edited by NightmareT12
Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Scruffel said:

Are you sure those desaturated colors have anything to do with your settings? Because for me, they look like how they've always look.

  Reveal hidden contents

Warframe0097.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

Warframe0098.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

Warframe0099.jpg

  Reveal hidden contents

Warframe0100.jpg

Not sure if it has to do with the fact of how my graphical settings are set, but that does seems odd.

Can you take a pic of Ash`s original skin so I can see since he is what i`m talking about and if it really is the settings then your Ash should not look nothing like mind, but I don`t think it`s the settings because I don`t mess with them. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-06-17 at 3:23 PM, kreep2.0 said:

I've read your post. It's fine. I just commented on what I would like. Have you even played the original bladestorm?

Yh I have play it and despite its issues I think it`s way superior then what it is now when it comes to activation speed. My idea is an amalgam of the old and the current bs so people have a choice of which one they want to use. One of the issues with the old bs is that it kind of over-shadowed the other abilities so I ask you does my other ideas to Ash make his abilities mote viable to use than just using bs?

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Can you take a pic of Ash`s original skin so I can see since he is what i`m talking about and if it really is the settings then your Ash should not look nothing like mind, but I don`t think it`s the settings because I don`t mess with them. 

Okay, sure.

Warframe0101.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Vexx-info:

People keep saying how good Ash is and he can kill in a team, all I ask is for someone to show me video prof of them getting a hight kill count and using bs with ease. If I had to add some requirements to it, I would add;

·       The person doing the recording must be playing Ash.

·       The person using Ash must show his build before the mission starts.

·       Play with a public team.

·       Have one or more killers on the team (equinox, saryn, banshee, mesa)

·       Do a defence mission on hydron and finish at wave 5 OR do a defence mission on Earth up to wave 5.

·       Don`t use AOE, syndicate weapons or gas on weapons.

·       At the end of the video show the stats of the number of kills.

 

I have offered this as a challenge before (but slightly different requirements), instead of ppl either accepting the challenge or ignoring it look at the responses I get.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/dnebs7/ash_challenge_prove_me_wrong/

 

And here is a reply from someone that I’m going to address (my replies are bold).

Spoiler

Ash is fine mechanically

No he isn’t, blade storm specifically.

 

and when played well is one of the best frames....his bladestorm right now isn’t broken but requires engagement to do.

There issues with bs, for example he can`t kill level 6 enemies in a team, it is but you go all through that effort just to have someone take your kills.

 

His seeking shuriken augment makes him one of the best frames in the game for stripping armor and killing enemies regardless of level. While his invis is short he can output enough damage to counter that. And his 4th works with arcane trickery to prolong invisibility. 

 Yh with the augment not without and its only good in high-level mission it`s useless in low-levels also nyx can do the same thing and more, it’s the same argument I always see. His 2nd ability should make up for having better cc if you have to counter that with damage then there an issue what if you don`t want to kill after casting it? True but all these points don`t justify the issues he currently has.

 

Your challenge is dumb. 

I see that as an excuse either take the challenge or be quiet.

 

As an Ash main and someone who really only plays ash I can say you’re whole reasons behind this make no sense along with the requirements. MR dosent mean anything.

If you actually sit and think about it instead of flapping your gums you will understand however I do agree MR don`t mean anything.

 

The location dosent mean anything and the fact your trying to equate hydron into your challeng shows you don’t know anything.

Instead of running you mouth ask the question “why” you might learn something.

 

Ash works best in more open areas given how his four works.

And that’s the issue right there his old bs never had that issue and most other 4th ability frames (Volt, Hydroid, Oberon, Nezha), you could use it anywhere plus most tilesets are close-quarters.

 

It respects line of sight. go to the defense on lua or void or mot to get more use out of it. Hydron requires you to traverse a mostly covered but admittedly small map. It’s always less efficient for ash to do that unless your sweating your balls out. 

Los might “make sense” on paper but in practise it`s problematic. The fact that you mention those two places just proves my point, you shouldn’t have to go to open maps to use the ability, this makes his only useful in certain tilesets which again the old bs never had this issue, the fact you have to run around corners to mark enemies just to have them killed off is problematic, again despite its issues, the old bs is more efficient in kill time than current bs.

 

Ash and his marking make sense... he’s an assassin... he marks his target before he kills them....... 

Again, it makes sense ON PAPER but it practises it`s slow, useless in low-levels and like you said has issues in close-quarter tilesets. Idc about it “making sense” if making it make sense make the ability suffer then it’s not needed. I keep saying this and I will say it again, the marking mechanic should never be tied to damage EVER.

 

Saryns mechanics make sense. You spread the spores by bursting them infecting the area.... 

Yes and it works so much is that it`s op and people would rather have a op ability than a ability that’s ineffective which is bs.

 

equinox and mesa make sense. 

Mesas gunslinger respects LOS and unless you have Mesa Walt’s your immobile. 

equinox requires you do damage and be actively participating in the mission for that to happen along with your teammates.. 

Mesa yes and it works, Equinox it makes sense with warframe logic not real-life logic but either way it still works.

 

you just want the one button win ash back. Dude. And to counter the argument if you feel like ash is so bad. Come on the game right now. We can go into MOT and see which of us survive longer 💗💗💗💗💗💗💗

 

No ignoramus again ask question before you flap your gums. The best thing about the old bs which makes it far superior than the current bs is that it had quick activation which increased your dps so that`s a stupid comment to make. Now I think this challenge is stupid and I don`t need to ask you why, mot is a level 40+ mission which increases the enemy level overtime and that has open spaces on the tileset, like you said Ash is good in open spaces and is effective at killing high-level enemies this so called challenge is stupid because it`s not the point I’m making.

Why even mention who will survive the longest? Idc about that and his survivability is not the issues I have with him idiot.

All you had to do is either accept the challenge and shut me up by proving me wrong or ignore it and go about your business but you couldn’t do that could you?

Instead you just emotional because you can`t prove my point, there is a reason you don`t see videos of ppl using Ash in a team and showing the amount of kills he gets. Your dumb challenge doesn`t prove anything which makes it null and void.

But I do want to thanks to you for mentioning the open tileset thing, you have given me another point to my bs is bad, I can add this issue to my point of bs`s issues).

 

I won`t put words into you guys mouth or try to pander you to my way of thinking, does this person have a leg to stand on? Is my challenge dumb? Or do I have a point? Does my challenge prove my point about Ash`s bs issues? At lease you guys will be able to do what he couldn’t… Ask why. 

 

Oh and p.s. the person that said all this has been commenting on this post, if I have to narrow it down this person is currently following this post.

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

People keep saying how good Ash is and he can kill in a team, all I ask is for someone to show me video prof of them getting a hight kill count and using bs with ease. If I had to add some requirements to it, I would add;

·       The person doing the recording must be playing Ash.

·       The person using Ash must show his build before the mission starts.

·       Play with a public team.

·       Have one or more killers on the team (equinox, saryn, banshee, mesa)

·       Do a defence mission on hydron and finish at wave 5 OR do a defence mission on Earth up to wave 5.

·       Don`t use AOE, syndicate weapons or gas on weapons.

·       At the end of the video show the stats of the number of kills.

 

I have offered this as a challenge before (but slightly different requirements), instead of ppl either accepting the challenge or ignoring it look at the responses I get.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/dnebs7/ash_challenge_prove_me_wrong/

 

And here is a reply from someone that I’m going to address (my replies are bold).

  Hide contents

Ash is fine mechanically

No he isn’t, blade storm specifically.

 

and when played well is one of the best frames....his bladestorm right now isn’t broken but requires engagement to do.

There issues with bs, for example he can`t kill level 6 enemies in a team, it is but you go all through that effort just to have someone take your kills.

 

His seeking shuriken augment makes him one of the best frames in the game for stripping armor and killing enemies regardless of level. While his invis is short he can output enough damage to counter that. And his 4th works with arcane trickery to prolong invisibility. 

 Yh with the augment not without and its only good in high-level mission it`s useless in low-levels also nyx can do the same thing and more, it’s the same argument I always see. His 2nd ability should make up for having better cc if you have to counter that with damage then there an issue what if you don`t want to kill after casting it? True but all these points don`t justify the issues he currently has.

 

Your challenge is dumb. 

I see that as an excuse either take the challenge or be quiet.

 

As an Ash main and someone who really only plays ash I can say you’re whole reasons behind this make no sense along with the requirements. MR dosent mean anything.

If you actually sit and think about it instead of flapping your gums you will understand however I do agree MR don`t mean anything.

 

The location dosent mean anything and the fact your trying to equate hydron into your challeng shows you don’t know anything.

Instead of running you mouth ask the question “why” you might learn something.

 

Ash works best in more open areas given how his four works.

And that’s the issue right there his old bs never had that issue and most other 4th ability frames (Volt, Hydroid, Oberon, Nezha), you could use it anywhere plus most tilesets are close-quarters.

 

It respects line of sight. go to the defense on lua or void or mot to get more use out of it. Hydron requires you to traverse a mostly covered but admittedly small map. It’s always less efficient for ash to do that unless your sweating your balls out. 

Los might “make sense” on paper but in practise it`s problematic. The fact that you mention those two places just proves my point, you shouldn’t have to go to open maps to use the ability, this makes his only useful in certain tilesets which again the old bs never had this issue, the fact you have to run around corners to mark enemies just to have them killed off is problematic, again despite its issues, the old bs is more efficient in kill time than current bs.

 

Ash and his marking make sense... he’s an assassin... he marks his target before he kills them....... 

Again, it makes sense ON PAPER but it practises it`s slow, useless in low-levels and like you said has issues in close-quarter tilesets. Idc about it “making sense” if making it make sense make the ability suffer then it’s not needed. I keep saying this and I will say it again, the marking mechanic should never be tied to damage EVER.

 

Saryns mechanics make sense. You spread the spores by bursting them infecting the area.... 

Yes and it works so much is that it`s op and people would rather have a op ability than a ability that’s ineffective which is bs.

 

equinox and mesa make sense. 

Mesas gunslinger respects LOS and unless you have Mesa Walt’s your immobile. 

equinox requires you do damage and be actively participating in the mission for that to happen along with your teammates.. 

Mesa yes and it works, Equinox it makes sense with warframe logic not real-life logic but either way it still works.

 

you just want the one button win ash back. Dude. And to counter the argument if you feel like ash is so bad. Come on the game right now. We can go into MOT and see which of us survive longer 💗💗💗💗💗💗💗

 

No ignoramus again ask question before you flap your gums. The best thing about the old bs which makes it far superior than the current bs is that it had quick activation which increased your dps so that`s a stupid comment to make. Now I think this challenge is stupid and I don`t need to ask you why, mot is a level 40+ mission which increases the enemy level overtime and that has open spaces on the tileset, like you said Ash is good in open spaces and is effective at killing high-level enemies this so called challenge is stupid because it`s not the point I’m making.

Why even mention who will survive the longest? Idc about that and his survivability is not the issues I have with him idiot.

All you had to do is either accept the challenge and shut me up by proving me wrong or ignore it and go about your business but you couldn’t do that could you?

Instead you just emotional because you can`t prove my point, there is a reason you don`t see videos of ppl using Ash in a team and showing the amount of kills he gets. Your dumb challenge doesn`t prove anything which makes it null and void.

But I do want to thanks to you for mentioning the open tileset thing, you have given me another point to my bs is bad, I can add this issue to my point of bs`s issues).

 

I won`t put words into you guys mouth or try to pander you to my way of thinking, does this person have a leg to stand on? Is my challenge dumb? Or do I have a point? Does my challenge prove my point about Ash`s bs issues? At lease you guys will be able to do what he couldn’t… Ask why. 

 

Oh and p.s. the person that said all this has been commenting on this post, if I have to narrow it down this person is currently following this post.

Sigh you really are sad lad

Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyways I took your “challenge” I’m editing and have the video done in a day or two? Only fair that you accept mine in this regard. 

Once hard mode drops on console you bring your “killer frame” of choice and I bring my ash. Any infinite gamemode any weapons builds etc and lets see who loses  steel path 

Edited by (PS4)sweatshawp
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

HAS to be a pub (lol)

- HAS to be hydron (omegalul)

- HAS To have a random play a “killer frame” (mess nox saryn etc)” 

- HAS to stay at least 5 waves

cant use any AOE or syndicate weapons (????okay I guess.)

Complaint “everyone steals ashes kills as needs to be good like mess saryn etc”

after following these very contradictory statements at the end of the mission I had only 10-12~% less damage in the mission than said mess. The rest of the stats were spread more evenly across the team.

not to mention I had to wait at 30+ minutes to find a match on Hydron with a “killer frame” which also further proves the point that this challenge is indeed nonsensical and a blanket excuse to try to complain that as is bad. Then said user tries to wave it around because people would not attempt it because it’s well.... stupid

after completing such challenge 

it further backs my point that as can keep up with damage in most scenarios and dosent need a rework or buff to match Mesa saryn etc because effectively he’s just as good if not better in some scenarios than them. 

The falsehood that he’s bad in hydron or you get your kills stolen by frames that are notorious to nuke the entire map is asinine because that just dosent effect him. It effects everyframe without an aoe clear. Would one say  nidus is bad because he dosent have saryn spores or wisp is bad because she does not have s nox easy press four to win nuke? No.

id like to further add that people aren’t olahung ash not because he’s some terrible or outdated frame as his kit has aged quite well. Rather than there are easier frames that have A nuking capability. Most players who play warframe are trying to optimize it. That being said it’s natural for a primarily single target dps to be picked less when you have multiple press four to win warframes that also have dmg reduction or healing or super strong cc ON top of a nuke. 

In short challenge dumb ash good 

you don’t like ash.

you not good with ash and want ash to be like Mesa

play someone else like Mesa 

 

Also for those who like to read

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 3 Stunden schrieb (PS4)sweatshawp:

HAS to be a pub (lol)

- HAS to be hydron (omegalul)

- HAS To have a random play a “killer frame” (mess nox saryn etc)” 

- HAS to stay at least 5 waves

cant use any AOE or syndicate weapons (????okay I guess.)

Complaint “everyone steals ashes kills as needs to be good like mess saryn etc”

after following these very contradictory statements at the end of the mission I had only 10-12~% less damage in the mission than said mess. The rest of the stats were spread more evenly across the team.

not to mention I had to wait at 30+ minutes to find a match on Hydron with a “killer frame” which also further proves the point that this challenge is indeed nonsensical and a blanket excuse to try to complain that as is bad. Then said user tries to wave it around because people would not attempt it because it’s well.... stupid

after completing such challenge 

it further backs my point that as can keep up with damage in most scenarios and dosent need a rework or buff to match Mesa saryn etc because effectively he’s just as good if not better in some scenarios than them. 

The falsehood that he’s bad in hydron or you get your kills stolen by frames that are notorious to nuke the entire map is asinine because that just dosent effect him. It effects everyframe without an aoe clear. Would one say  nidus is bad because he dosent have saryn spores or wisp is bad because she does not have s nox easy press four to win nuke? No.

id like to further add that people aren’t olahung ash not because he’s some terrible or outdated frame as his kit has aged quite well. Rather than there are easier frames that have A nuking capability. Most players who play warframe are trying to optimize it. That being said it’s natural for a primarily single target dps to be picked less when you have multiple press four to win warframes that also have dmg reduction or healing or super strong cc ON top of a nuke. 

In short challenge dumb ash good 

you don’t like ash.

you not good with ash and want ash to be like Mesa

play someone else like Mesa 

 

Also for those who like to read

I would like to add that the amount of kills and damage will increase against higher lv. enemies, because unlike Saryn/ Mesa are Ash attacks not affected by armor/ shields. (Except the bleed-procs.)

But I will stay by my opinion. Ash needs a rework, because in the end is only his second an usable ability. First is with augment only good against status-immun enemies, third has a too long animation and is ineffective compared to a bronco with the augment and BS is just clunky.

Edited by ES-Flinter
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, ES-Flinter said:

I would like to add that the amount of kills and damage will increase against higher lv. enemies, because unlike Saryn/ Mesa are Ash attacks not affected by armor/ shields. (Except the bleed-procs.)

But I will stay by my opinion. Ash needs a rework, because in the end is only his second an usable ability. First is with augment only good against status-immun enemies, third has a too long animation and is ineffective compared to a bronco with the augment and BS is just clunky.

All his abilities are good imo 

his one again does decent dmg + a slash proc

his 2 is an invis and a stun/disorientate

his three while being clunky can be fixed by fixing some pathing in the way he teleports. 

And  his 4 just needs target adjuments and fixing the area of effect to make it slightly bigger

coming from someone who can clear a room almost as fast as a Mesa with bs and regular shurikens 

Edited by (PS4)sweatshawp
Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 16 Stunden schrieb (PS4)sweatshawp:

All his abilities are good imo 

his one again does decent dmg + a slash proc

his 2 is an invis and a stun/disorientate

his three while being clunky can be fixed by fixing some pathing in the way he teleports. 

And  his 4 just needs target adjuments and fixing the area of effect to make it slightly bigger

Normally I would have to disagree with you, but your opionion is right. But we can't ignore that Ash problems are a bit "deeper". (<-sorry if it's missundersanding. English isn't my native language).

  • While Ash shurikens are one of the strongest first abilities ingame (~14k damage, if both shuriken inflict on one enemy a headshoot+ 145% power strength) it still nothing compared to Ash fourth ability which can easily inflict over 20k damage per hit. And Bs is also cheaper than shuriken.
  • His invisibility abilty is the weakest invisibility ability ingame. Ivara can stay forever invisble. Lokis and Octavia both have a longer durationa nd Octavias can also make her alias invisible, while Ash needs an extra augment. And let's not forget that the stun doesn't open enemies for finisher and that there is a one second window, where the enemies won't shoot at you, when the invisbility turns off.
  • Teleport. I don't need to mention how buggy it is and compared to Novas wormhole and Nezha fire-ring ist questionable why Ash needs a target to teleport.
  • BS. Slow, clunky and I would be more happy, if Ash get's just get an one-hit abilty, where the attack range can be increased under certain circumstances. (maybe something like: attack-range= enemy level/ 100?)
vor 17 Stunden schrieb (PS4)sweatshawp:

coming from someone who can clear a room almost as fast as a Mesa with bs and regular shurikens 

Give me my Mutalist Cernos and dagger and I'm going to outdamage and -kill you both. 😉😉😉

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ES-Flinter said:

Normally I would have to disagree with you, but your opionion is right. But we can't ignore that Ash problems are a bit "deeper". (<-sorry if it's missundersanding. English isn't my native language).

  • While Ash shurikens are one of the strongest first abilities ingame (~14k damage, if both shuriken inflict on one enemy a headshoot+ 145% power strength) it still nothing compared to Ash fourth ability which can easily inflict over 20k damage per hit. And Bs is also cheaper than shuriken.
  • His invisibility abilty is the weakest invisibility ability ingame. Ivara can stay forever invisble. Lokis and Octavia both have a longer durationa nd Octavias can also make her alias invisible, while Ash needs an extra augment. And let's not forget that the stun doesn't open enemies for finisher and that there is a one second window, where the enemies won't shoot at you, when the invisbility turns off.
  • Teleport. I don't need to mention how buggy it is and compared to Novas wormhole and Nezha fire-ring ist questionable why Ash needs a target to teleport.
  • BS. Slow, clunky and I would be more happy, if Ash get's just get an one-hit abilty, where the attack range can be increased under certain circumstances. (maybe something like: attack-range= enemy level/ 100?)

Give me my Mutalist Cernos and dagger and I'm going to outdamage and -kill you both. 😉😉😉

The the is. 

His shurkien is his first ability. By most standards it’s meant to not be very strong in comparison to the rest of his kit. In terms of bladestorm being cheaper. It’s not. Three marks (which albeit isn’t always needed) is always more expensive as well as two. And even so bs is meant to be used on multiple targets. So spamming bs vs spamming shuriken >shuriken will win in the energy pool battle. 

His invisibility isn’t supposed to be as long as Loki ivara or others by design. He’s an assassin meant to get in and get out. That being said with how well his ult and third are if you use arcane trickery you can effectively stay invisible forever anyway. Like those mentioned if you like. Also ash does have an ok armor pool so he can be somewhat tanky with an umbral build / arcane ultimatum and rolling guard or adaption. Making his two kinda unneeded in this build. But non the less his duration isn’t the bad thing as you’re not supposed to rely on him being invis the entire time. 

His three agreed is clunky and I do agree on some fixes to it but overall  mechanically there is a lot of tech that makes it broken if you know how to use and abuse it.

oh and I mean very very very broken.

I don’t talk about some things because I don’t want the lad needed but a lot of things in ashes kit in combination to newer updates to gameplay and old things have resulted in interesting things that can happen in interaction with his three and certain weapons and abilities. 🙂 

 

his four is fine imo they just need to fix targeting

and I wish you were on os4 lad I love to play with you

Edited by (PS4)sweatshawp
Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 8 Stunden schrieb (PS4)sweatshawp:

His shurkien is his first ability. By most standards it’s meant to not be very strong in comparison to the rest of his kit. In terms of bladestorm being cheaper. It’s not. Three marks (which albeit isn’t always needed) is always more expensive as well as two. And even so bs is meant to be used on multiple targets. So spamming bs vs spamming shuriken >shuriken will win in the energy pool battle. 

One mark of bladestorm cost 12 energy. One shuriken 12,5 (25/2 because 2 shurikens). The cost of Bs is also halved, if Ash is invisble. There is also a huge damage difference between Bs and shuriken. One Bs mark can inflict around 50k damage (145% power strength+ steel charge+ arcane fury= ~10k true damage+ 40k slashproc damage), while shuriken "only" 7k. (14k, if both shuriken inflict a headshoot.)

Shuriken and Bs are both for groups. Teleport is Ash single-target ability (,if it works...). But even against "weak" enemies does shuriken become useless. In steelpath has a lv. 130 elite grineer lancer around 42k health. BS can kill it with one mark, but shuriken not. And I'm sure that it's faster to mark and kill a group with Bs instead of spamming shurikens.

In sum deals shuriken much less damage, but cost more energy and in the end it becomes useless, because it can't do anything other than hurting somebody. And even the augment isn't very useful, because all of Ash abilities ignore armor and his passive encourage to use weapons which inflict slash-procs.

vor 8 Stunden schrieb (PS4)sweatshawp:

His invisibility isn’t supposed to be as long as Loki ivara or others by design. He’s an assassin meant to get in and get out. That being said with how well his ult and third are if you use arcane trickery you can effectively stay invisible forever anyway. Like those mentioned if you like. Also ash does have an ok armor pool so he can be somewhat tanky with an umbral build / arcane ultimatum and rolling guard or adaption. Making his two kinda unneeded in this build. But non the less his duration isn’t the bad thing as you’re not supposed to rely on him being invis the entire time. 

And here starts one of Ash biggest problems imo. Is he a invisble-Ninja or is he a tanky-Samurai? His smoke-bomb is the shortest invisibility ability. With special equipment Ash invisibility duration can easily be increased to endless, but the same can be done with all the other frames.

And a tanky-Samurai Ash build has the big advantage, that other people can see your fashion frame. There is in the end no other adventage. Compared to other tank frames is Ash just a glasscannon. Ash damage potential also gets much lower, because he can't make use of the 700% stealth-multipler. And using arcane trickery on a the tank build opens for me just one big question:" Do you want to get hit while being invisble, or why do you need so much health?". (Sorry if I sound a bit toxic. That's the reason I hate most about Ash. An invisible tank can't work. The yellow big spiders in the orb vallis are a perfect example. They die when their invisibility turns off and are no danger, because they won't survive the first hit.)

vor 8 Stunden schrieb (PS4)sweatshawp:

His three agreed is clunky and I do agree on some fixes to it but overall  mechanically there is a lot of tech that makes it broken if you know how to use and abuse it.

oh and I mean very very very broken.

I don’t talk about some things because I don’t want the lad needed but a lot of things in ashes kit in combination to newer updates to gameplay and old things have resulted in interesting things that can happen in interaction with his three and certain weapons and abilities. 🙂

Are you talking about, that Ash is invincible, while performing a stealth attack and that a stealth attack deal true damage? Or that Ash can do a stealth attack on enemies, who are immun to staggers (Ancient healer aura) if the third augment is equipped?^^

vor 8 Stunden schrieb (PS4)sweatshawp:

and I wish you were on os4 lad I love to play with you

Are you sure, that the universe can sustain our combined power? 😉😉😉

Edited by ES-Flinter
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, ES-Flinter said:

Are you talking about, that Ash is invincible, while performing a stealth attack and that a stealth attack deal true damage? Or that Ash can do a stealth attack on enemies, who are immun to staggers (Ancient healer aura) if the third augment is equipped?^^

It’s some more tech to it.  : ) 

 

 I also don’t have steel path yet so I can’t speak on that b ur I can take your word. Overall my statement does still stand that it’s not supposed to be the strongest ability in his kit.

but his two. Is a smoke screen. It’s not meant to be a long duration move. Being that the res rest of ashes kit is broken (imo) the duration of his invis is fair. He is a ninja. Yes but a ninjas doesn’t not mainly rely on not being seen. They rely on getting and getting out as fast as possible without being seen. What’s the point of a ninja that can stay invisibile nearly forever? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 16 Stunden schrieb (PS4)sweatshawp:

It’s some more tech to it.  : ) 

Please explain. I have to knew everything about him, otherwise I can't say that I mastered him.^^

vor 16 Stunden schrieb (PS4)sweatshawp:

I also don’t have steel path yet so I can’t speak on that b ur I can take your word. Overall my statement does still stand that it’s not supposed to be the strongest ability in his kit

But you do agree that it can still be tweaked somehow, to give it at least a use in lategame, right? 😁😁😁

Increased damage, extra loot or maybe something like that an enemy hit by shuriken will explode after his death and inflict x% of his max health as damage.

vor 16 Stunden schrieb (PS4)sweatshawp:

but his two. Is a smoke screen. It’s not meant to be a long duration move. Being that the res rest of ashes kit is broken (imo) the duration of his invis is fair. He is a ninja. Yes but a ninjas doesn’t not mainly rely on not being seen. They rely on getting and getting out as fast as possible without being seen. What’s the point of a ninja that can stay invisibile nearly forever? 

Then at least give it something other than longer duration. Reduced Los for enemies, Stun or whatever can be done with a cloud.

Edited by ES-Flinter
Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is a before and after picture of Ash`s helmet, you can see the big difference, look how shiny the finish is on the before pic the after pic is not only old looking but has lines that weren`t there before. DE CHANGE IT BACK!

de1o0iu-79a7b958-a97f-42ac-9b52-02776039df7a.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOiIsImlzcyI6InVybjphcHA6Iiwib2JqIjpbW3sicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvODVjZDhkNGEtMjc1My00YzEwLThiY2MtZTIwYzFkZDVmYWQ4XC9kZTFvMGl1LTc5YTdiOTU4LWE5N2YtNDJhYy05YjUyLTAyNzc2MDM5ZGY3YS5qcGcifV1dLCJhdWQiOlsidXJuOnNlcnZpY2U6ZmlsZS5kb3dubG9hZCJdfQ.ZsBkWCmTA1vVe_9OwR7arBhZhPfGI5I8shSnGsByWdQ

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-07-02 at 2:44 PM, hefirey said:

I was not upset I just decided to give you your own room, and I will go with my own. Although I am very envious your post has so much viewers that's the extent of my emotions, that and I worry that ash may face a revisit that I wont like.

And you did something that most ppl can`t do so I appreciate that. Everyone can come up with their own ideas of a rework or a revisit, ppl just forget that it`s ideas now if it was someone at DE giving ideas then that`s understandable if ppl got upset with their idea they didn`t like (to a certain extent) coz that person has a higher chance for DE to listen to their idea and implement it.

There is nothing to be envious about, after the ridicule I had I just played Ash, looked at his issues, came up with ideas and just imagined while playing what my ideas would be like in game. I have a lot of supporters coz I put in the effort, I`m taking it seriously and reached out to ppl`s in-game (which you will see evidence soon) asking their opinion on Ash, why they don`t like Ash, telling them how I would fix his issues, took on board their issues with him and implemented solutions to fix the probs with some bonuses.

At the end of the day we all want the same thing; For Ash to get the revisit her deserves that`s it.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

While I could see a 'dusty' look not being ideal, I'm surprised so many people are complaining about losing the absolutely horrible cheap plastic look. It's inconceivable for me that what he was before could ever be considered to be higher quality.

In addition, now you can actually use his old default and alt helmets with prime/deluxe skins because they aren't a completely different material that takes colors way differently, which means your fashion options are much more diverse.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As for you @(PS4)sweatshawp

Seriously why are you still here? You clearly don`t like the fact that I’m pushing the idea of Ash getting a revisit, I even address you privately to tell you to back off and to stay on your post and you`re still here.

Spoiler

Stupid ME ADDRESS IDIOT by Aaronj-c

 

Even now you`re still following this post when I told you not to but yet you don`t agree with any of my logical points about Ash make that make some bloody sense.

You`re just upset that my post is doing well while your “rework” post (which is a revisit not a damn rework) about Ash only got 725 views with 2 comments (my bad 1 comment) and even that person pretty much said they want Ash to go back to the way he was and didn`t even comment on your ideas compared to my over 8,000 views and counting, even put up a post before that moaning and groaning talking about some “Protect Ash” oh sure coz we can put a gun to DE`s head and force them to revisit Ash from our computers.

Spoiler

stupid comments PROOF OF ENVY by Aaronj-c

 

PanMatter has put up a post about Chroma and this post has over 2,000 views, I don`t agree with their rework idea but I haven`t jumped on saying “play a different frame”, this person is not bothering anyone this person is just doing their own thing and it`s working out for them unlike your failed posts.

You are a paskudnyak, you`re literally green with envy, replying to me with stupid and nit-picking comments. Also I was talking to hefirey not you I would understand if I was cussing him out and you were defending him but you`re not especially when the person I replied to didn`t have an issue with me and there is no such thing as “your truth” there is only “the truth” and the truth is that Ash is not “in a good place” and need improvements so mind you`re damn business.

Spoiler

Stupid Comments 2 by Aaronj-c

Spoiler

Proof Of Salty Ash Player 1 by Aaronj-c

 

On 2020-07-18 at 6:23 AM, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

it further backs my point that as can keep up with damage in most scenarios and dosent need a rework or buff to match Mesa saryn etc because effectively he’s just as good if not better in some scenarios than them. 

No sir you have no point since I keep saying it every damn time his damage is NOT the issue it`s that he can`t get a large amount of kills because of the marking mechanic which makes other ppl get them first even while marking, if a warframe has a powerful 4th ability but can`t kill level 6 enemies in a team this is a huge issue and even if Mesa and Saryn didn`t exist I would still talk about the effectiveness of his killing speed so I’m not trying to compete with them, since you can`t read I’ll pull up the quote that I said again.

 

Vexx757

"People keep saying how good Ash is and he can kill in a team, all I ask is for someone to show me video proof of them getting a high kill count and using bs with ease."

 

And then you said;

"In short challenge dumb ash good, you don’t like ash, you not good with ash and want ash to be like Mesa, play someone else like Mesa." 

 

Ladies and gentlemen this is the kind of dumb responses that Ash players make to the ppl that talked about Ash`s issues, tell me you haven`t had a comment like this thrown at you before.

You don`t get to tell me who I can and can`t play, that’s a dumb comment to make, Ash is a ninja Mesa is a cowgirl, I want to play a ninja not a cowgirl plus Mesa is boring imo. 

You even went to Z4D0`s post and told him “don`t play Ash” just because of what he said and Lullipompsie told you Ash`s killing speed is his issue and you response was “His dps is effectively higher since his rework” (again with the bloody rework) which damage wasn`t that persons bloody issue.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1207776-ash/?tab=comments#comment-11704056

 

Me personally I don`t like ppl saying that Ash`s bs needs a rework especially when they don`t know the difference between a rework and a revisit (like you) but you don`t see me arguing with ppl, LEAVE PPL ALONE you’re not even smart enough to understand no matter what we say DE is the one to make the decisions.

 

This is the last time am addressing you because I’m blocking you so don`t bother replying. I`m pushing for an Ash revisit and I think my ideas are satisfactory, don`t like it? Unfollow my post, get out of my comment section and GET OVER IT!

 

Oh and btw the person that wrote this to me, the comment I put up last Friday…

Spoiler

Proof Of Salty Ash Player 2 by Aaronj-c

Yh it was this guy that wrote it.

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...