Ash: His current problems and the solutions to fix them

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Vexx-info: With these changes, I`m going to list the new strategic ways Ash can be used in public and solo missions;

 

·       Casting multiple shurikens at enemies will be a small form of cc to slow them down.

·       If you are surrounded by enemies, you can Stun them with smoke screen which will give Ash and allies a 4 second window to kill them without any issues.

·       You can use the smoke on a dangerous enemy to keep the stunned longer and make it easy to kill with his 1st, 3,rd and 4th abilities, weapons and allies damage.

·       The smoke can be used to lock enemies down in doorways.

·       If an ally is in danger, they can stand inside the smoke making them unseen to enemies.

·       If you see an ally, enemy, npc, objects with a health bar or scannable object on the other side of the window, you can teleport to it which will cut down time instead of finding a way around it.

·       Ash can teleport and attack the capture target on Jupiter or any other unreachable enemy in the air.

·       In stealth gameplay if an enemy is in front of you and you want to get behind it, you can hold ability to teleport to the ground behind it to sneak past it or finish it off.

·       If you need a quick escape at a hight point, you can teleport onto a wall above ground and hang there for a short duration to shoot the enemies below.

·       If a player is down and you are in bs, you can deactivate the ability to revive your teammate.

[Goblinman32]

I'm a dedicated Ash main. Here's some concepts for improving his playstyle (some half-cribbed from the OP, btw, so hat-tip there).

Passive: Death Marks: In addition to his current passive, all enemies hit by any of Ash's abilities become marked for death, gaining one Blade Storm mark. Some of Ash's other abilities interact with marked enemies in various ways. Marks are consumed when Blade Storm is activated and then deactivated, as normal.

• Ash can see marked enemies highlighted through terrain.
• Marked enemies are visible on the minimap for Ash and his team, as though revealed by an enemy radar effect.
• Marks no longer fall off with distance.

Shuriken: Holding down the ability charges it, causing the shuriken to headshot enemies. If targeting a specific enemy when releasing a charged shot, both shuriken will home in on that enemy.

Smoke Screen: The smoke bomb leaves behind a lingering cloud that reduces enemy visibility. Enemies within in the cloud have reduced accuracy and perception distance, and allies inside the cloud are harder to hit.

Teleport:

• Teleport ignores terrain for allies and marked enemies (but not unmarked enemies or objects). (Yes I'm giving Ash wallhax. I hear your concerns and I'm doing it anyway. Note the synergy with Shuriken/Death Marks.)
• Pressing Interact while targeting a downed teammate will cause Ash to teleport to them and begin reviving them immediately (assuming Ash is in range and has enough energy).
• Teleport now works on destroyed objects, not just intact ones.
• Fatal Teleport uses the Blade Storm kick-flip animation, allowing it to execute more reliably, especially on airborne enemies. It still scales off the equipped melee weapon. (I consider this a bug fix, tbh.)
• Optional concept: Hold Teleport to select any visible location within range, and then release to teleport there. (I personally don't mind teleport working only on objects, but I know a lot of people want something like this.)

Blade Storm: Note: While Blade Storm may need a complete overhaul, I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel right now, just speed it up in order to make it more competitive and easier to use.

• At max rank, Blade Storm applies all three marks instantly when targeting an enemy.
• The targeting reticle for Blade Storm is increased in radius, allowing you to target a group of enemies at once. Increasing your Range widens the reticle.
• You can Teleport into Blade Storm even if you don't have enough energy to cast Teleport.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

2 hours ago, Goblinman32 said:

-snip-

What is you`re opinion of my improvements to Ash?

[Goblinman32]

7 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

What is you`re opinion of my improvements to Ash?

• Charging Shuriken to aim it for more damage and maybe a debuff/CC effect is good. I wouldn't go with your specific version of those effects, though, since we already have an augment for a strong debuff. Having the charged shot headshot and stagger probably is more logical than a slow.
• Smoke Screen leaving a cloud behind is good, as right now it's basically a shorter version of Loki's Invisibility that can be cast while moving. It should not make allies untargetable by default - there's already an augment that does that. Increasing the duration of the stun is fine, and having it open them up for finishers makes sense (Ash is basically the finisher frame). I think the lingering cloud being able to stun-lock is a bit too strong though. Lastly, I'd only remove the muffled sound for certain audio cues: demolisher pings and grenade beeps, for example.
• I'd increase the number of things Ash can Teleport to, but I don't think being able to teleport anywhere is essential. I'd rather see Teleport gain more unique utility, such as synergizing with other abilities more, and doing things that can help the team, which your version doesn't really do. (Also, charging it should not reduce the range. There would be no reason to use the charged version if it worked like that - it'd be more efficient to just jump.)
• Blade Storm needs reworking, but I don't like your version. My concern isn't the Saryn/Mesa being a better nuker than me, or teammates killing my marked targets, it's that these days I can usually outpace Blade Storm with my own melee weapon. I don't know if the activation should be instantaneous, but it should be a lot faster or the power should be turned into something else.
• Your idea to slide to increase the attack speed of Blade Storm is completely unintuitive. It would just mean you'd be forced to slide when you wanted to use Blade Storm.
• Your synergy ideas are messy. For Smoke Screen, just have it halve the energy cost of all Ash's other abilities while active if you want to go that kind of route. I do like Shuriken+Teleport allowing wallhax - it'd give Ash some unique utility. Lastly, throwing Shuriken into Blade Storm to increase the damage is wonky and works against how Blade Storm functions: thematically, you're throwing knives at yourself, and mechanically it means you can't boost your BS damage if you join into the storm. That last part is especially a problem for your version since you have Ash entering the storm by default.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 2020-03-03 at 8:03 PM, Goblinman32 said:

-snip-

The reason why it slows enemies down is coz they are bleeding out, in real life if someone looses a lot of blood they will move slower that's why I added this to shuriken.

Tbh idc about making allies untraceable, I just added it in there coz I hear ppl asking (1) for it and there is no PVE mod that does that. Since his invis is low I decided to improve the stun instead of increasing the duration since it`s meant to be a "smoke screen" anyways.

I agree idc if Ash can teleport anywhere or not, and I do agree that the range should not be halted. (1)

On bs this is something I`m not going to budge on, yes my idea is similar to the old bs however, it has no downsides and it`s team friendly compared to the old bs.

Sliding for increase bs speed is a choice e.g. you won`t really use it in low lvl missions unless you want it to go faster for fun`s sake but you will likely use it more in high lvl missions for dps. This option can free you from having to use attack speed mods on your melee weapons, sliding is NOT A MUST it`s an option the choice depends on the player.

Again I don`t really care about it halfling energy or not (1). I`m not sure what you mean when you say "throwing Shuriken into Blade Storm" it`s simple you use shuriken on multi enemies to build up damage, then you use bs which will consume all the damage built up plus you can hold 4th ability to send clone out instead of jumping in so there is no issue.

[Goblinman32]

I've been thinking about Blade Storm a bit more, and come up with a simplified way to improve it without having to rework the entire power:

• When Blade Storm is toggled on, Ash begins assassinating enemies as soon as they are marked.
• All three marks are applied at once (at max rank Blade Storm).

Additional details:

• Blade Storm now counts as a channeled ability, meaning energy can't be restored while it's active except via orbs.
• Marks cannot be re-applied on the same target until all three have been consumed.
• Ash will continue assassinating marked targets even after the ability is toggled off, with no additional energy penalty.
• Blade Storm otherwise works as it does now, including refunding energy from marks that are not consumed.

Synergies:

• Teleporting into Blade Storm works as it does now, and also toggles Blade Storm off.
• While Blade Storm is active, Shuriken will mark targets they hit. (This lets Ash mark some obstructed targets without being Saryn 2.0.)

Why? To speed Blade Storm up. The channeling penalty is a slight nerf, but wouldn't be an impactful one as, currently, having Blade Storm active does nothing but mark enemies.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Vexx-info: Bit by bit Ash is slowly getting nerfed. The 2016 revisit to bs, (nerf) 3rd ability finishers, combo multi, the finisher prompt being separate (on a controller) the only buff he has is the 1s of enemy targeting visibility when 2nd ability ends and the increase in armour which to me is not a big deal. Idc what nobody says Ash needs a revisit (not rework) and that`s why I`m going to keep pushing this until Ash get the revisit he deserves. 

P.S. I had 13 upvotes and 6 likes (since they got rid of the upvote symbol),  if you guys could show support by liking this post again I would appreciate it.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Vexx-info:

Based on my improvements to Ash, I have come up with some changes to his 2nd and 4th ability augments to make the both benefit Ash and allies.

 

Seeking Shuriken

·       This now strips enemies’ defences.

 

Smoke Shadow

·       Passive – smoke cloud has 5 seconds of duration.

·       It now affects npcs.

·       Depending on what elemental status affect(s) you have on your melee weapon will determine the smoke cloud`s affect e.g. toxic cloud.

·       The status affect will last twice as long.

 

Fatal Teleport

·       Passive - finisher speed increased by 75%

·       After killing an enemy, the next three enemies will be opened up to finishers whether they are alerted or not.

·       Enemies will be open to finishers until they are dead.

 

New: Marked blade

·       Each enemy that is killed from bs will leave an x mark on the ground which when standing on will give Ash and allies 40% critical chance and 40% running speed. Enemies that stand on it will be knocked down and be vulnerable to slash damage by 50% for 15 seconds.

·       The indicator of ally buff is shown on the top right of the screen.

·       The mark will last 20s until it disappears.

·       Mark duration can be increased by duration mods.

[Redfeather75]

^ That smoke cloud doing status effects based on melee weapon is really cool.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

21 hours ago, Redfeather75 said:

^ That smoke cloud doing status effects based on melee weapon is really cool.

I don`t think I asked you but what do you think of my Ash improvements?

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 2020-03-12 at 2:08 PM, syndicate725 said:

I like everything but the bladestorm, I'd like to kill my enemies as quick as possible but I would also like to have fun doing it. My thought is that of a mechanic similar to Saryn. But the mark mechanic takes too long to maximize the damage. My suggestion is that when you hit enemies with shuriken, you can just immediately press bladestorm and clones will attack. Similar to other nuke frames. Also works very well with Seeking Shuriken Augment.

But why do all that when you can just activate bs instantly also that means there is no room for you to be able to be in the animation. In my idea uses shuriken as a synergy option to increase bs`s damage which makes it to where you don`t need to use melee weapons to increase it`s damage and frees up mods on melee weapons. The two step process plus the marking mechanic makes bs slow, the marking mechanic should be for cc abilities not damage abilities.

 

[Otobai]

You can't improve the best frame in the game.

[sightjacker]

On 2020-03-03 at 7:38 AM, Goblinman32 said:

I'm a dedicated Ash main.

lol

[DreadWarlock]

On 2020-01-02 at 12:18 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

As much as Ash is my main frame, he needs to be looked at again.

The 1st ability is only good with its augment. Augments should be used as an option and not coz the ability on its own is bad, the 2nd ability could benefit by having better cc and even through ppl say that his invisible is too short I have no issue with it, the 3rd ability has potential to be so much better just of the concept of teleportation alone and the 4th ability is terrible when it comes to activation speed, it`s too slow and other ppl can take your kills (even in low levels) and even more things that make it bad.

Overall Ash is a contradiction to what DE wants ppl to do in this game.... PLAY AS A TEAM, that's why he needs to be looked at again and If I were to give him a re-visit, this is what I would do;

Ash:

·       All abilities can be cast while on ziplines.

 

1st Ability: Shuriken

  Hide contents

·       If an enemy is killed in one hit it is considered as a stealth kill.

·       Holding the ability will make both shurikens target the enemy you`re aiming at dealing double slash damage and adds critical damage based on what crit damage mods you have equipped on your melee weapon, also headshots will do more damage.

·       The more health the enemy loses, the slower the enemy moves when bleeding out.

·       When the enemy stops bleeding, it will go back to its normal movement speed.

·       It has a 1 second combo window. The more you use the ability, the more damage it does, the less energy it takes.

·       The built-up damage multi from spamming it can affect the held version of shuriken.

1

This makes Ash more strategic by giving a choice of who he wants to kill and makes him better at killing single target enemies.

 

2nd Ability: Smoke Screen

  Hide contents

·       Increase the cast stun duration to 4 sec.

·       The smoke left behind will last for 10 seconds.

·       The smoke cloud has a 5m radius which can be increased by range mods.

·       Enemies that enter the smoke will have a 6 sec stun duration and are 40% more susceptible to damage. If allies are in the cloud they cannot be targeted by enemies.

·       If Ash stays in the cloud the duration won`t start until either he leaves the cloud or the cloud duration runs out.

·       Allies that are in the cloud are visually translucent showing as a indicator that they are unseen by enemies.

·       All stun durations cannot be increased by duration mods.

·       When Ash is invisible, the apparitions from bs are also invisible.

·       Remove muffled sound while invisible.

 

There are now new ways you can use this ability;

·       You can use it next to a dangerously high-levelled enemy to stun it and kill it with ease.

·       You can use it to block enemies in doorways. Since the smoke affect duration is 6 seconds and the smoke lasts 10 seconds, enemies will be stuck for a total of 12 seconds.

·       You can protect your allies from enemies` sight with smoke cloud.

·       If you mod for less duration and more range, it will turn it into a better cc ability.

4

These improvement makes this ability strategic and you have more than one way to use the ability.

 

3rd Ability: Teleport

  Hide contents

·       Holding the ability will show an indicator of where he can teleport to from the radical but the range is hafted.

·       Teleporting to a wall will make ash hang to the wall for 3 seconds.

·       Not only it can teleport to anything with a health bar, it can also teleport to anything that can be scanned.

·       You can teleport through windows if there are allies, npcs, enemies, objects with a health bar or is scannable objects on the other side of it.

·       You are able to teleport to enemies that are in the air.

·       After teleporting in the air, performing melee attacks will keep him in the air.

2

These tweaks Ash`s 3rd ability will improve his teleporting abilities and gives him the option from focus enemy targeting to teleporting anywhere with less limitations.

 

Before I get into bs here are the current problems with bs;

  Hide contents

·       The two stages of the killing process make bs slow, because of this, other players can take his kills before you get a chance to kill them which makes him not helpful in the team, not fun to play and in a fast-pasted game this is bad.

 

·       Marking enemies for some players is sickening because of the motion of moving the cursor onto enemies, even though it`s easier (but still a problem) to do this using a mouse, doing this on a controller is not as easy, an ability should be able to be easy to use no matter what you use.

 

·       Because enemies are highlighted by your chosen energy colour, it will make enemies more visible to other players to go and kill them which in their minds is a top priority.

 

·       If you want the full damage of bs, you have to mark the enemies three times which will slow you down or  makes you stationary (if you want to do it quickly) to mark enemies with three marks. In low-level missions, your energy will be refunded back to you if you over mark and in high levels you obviously going to want the full damage of it so there is absolutely no point in having to choose the amount of damage you want to dish out. With the old bs, you had the full damage regardless.

 

·       Bodies disappearing makes it to where you can`t bring him in a desecrating team with a nekros. While bodies disappearing makes sense on paper for him being a ninja and I like the idea, unfortunately, this just makes him a problem in that team.

 

·       The indicator shows how many marks instead of how many enemies affected by bs. Because of this, you have no idea how many enemies are going to be killed. If it showed how many enemies affected by bs, it will let the play know when to use bs again.

 

·       Using your 2nd ability to use less energy is not synergy. Synergy is meant to be a choice that makes a difference in missions however, this so-called synergy is a must to use it consistently which makes it a bad gimmick.

 

·       Using the 3rd ability to join the animation costs no energy but you need energy to be able to use it which makes no sense plus, in low-level missions, sometimes you`re not even going to get a chance use your 3rd ability because the apparitions have killed the enemies already. (depending on how many enemies you mark)

 

·       Apparitions (clones) appearance is not consistent. The visuals go from looking like you custom coloured Ash to a hologram version, to the original ash look with default colours. Also, this is a bug that the old bs had which means it has not been fixed.

 

·       When marking, you can`t mark enemies that are behind walls or objects which make you have to run around searching for enemies to kill and if you in a team, your marked enemies will be killed off by your teammates.

 

·       Even if Ash`s damage has increased to 2,000, (his damage now is still great) the damage is not as good compared to the old bs. The apparitions of the old bs was like Saryn`s 1st ability damage but slightly better, (and the terminator) the apparitions would not stop killing until the enemies were dead and even though attack speed mods can increase their killing speed, with the current bs, the apparitions only attack three times however the bleeding damage speed cannot.

 

·       You can`t pick and choose what enemies you want to kill; (which people claim you can do) on paper it makes sense however in practise the idea is not useful. For example, if you wanted to mark an energy eximus in-between two other enemies and you only have enough energy to mark one enemy, you are not able to.

 

Reasons;

· Enemies are running around to where you will either run out of energy or you simply can`t mark the eximus.

· You will have to stand there trying to mark that one enemy.

· You have a chance to get hit by a stray bullet or by an explosion whether you use your 2nd ability or not.

· If you’re playing in a team, someone WILL take the kill from you.

· Teleport can do it better and is faster at it. (this alone destroys the purpose of using it that way)

9

 

4th Ability: Blade Storm

  Hide contents

·       When activating the ability, it will start instantly.

·       Pressing the ability will bring you into the animation while holding the ability will send clones out to kill instead of you.

·       If you want to jump out of bs, press the ability again and the clones will continue to kill enemies.

·       Enemies that are red can be killed by players.

·       There is no limit to how many enemies he can kill within the 20m radius of the enemy he`s aiming at.

·       An indicator is shown of the number of enemies that are going to be killed by bs.

·       Sliding before activating will increase the animation and clones` attack speed by 20%.

1

Why this logically makes blade storm better;

 

·       Ash`s bs is still slow when it comes to dps however, at lease because it`s an instant activation, he will at least get to the enemies 1st before any other frame`s damage ability does.

·       The current bs we have now made him absolutely useless in a team but with my changes, at least in a high-level mission he can kill more efficiently which in turn make the team less likely to get downed.

·       The choice of whether you want to be in the animations or not is much easier to pull off. The way it is now, if you use bs and you want to join the animation, but you have no energy you can’t join it even through it`s not meant to cost any energy to do so.

·       The indicator lets you know when you can use bs again.

·       Other people can take his kills while bs is still active which won`t matter coz of the amount of enemies he can kill.

 

Since Ash doesn`t have any synergy (or any good ones) here are some that will improve his performance;

Synergies

  Hide contents

Smoke Screen + Shuriken, Teleport & Blade Storm:

·       If you use any ability while you`re invisible, enemy bodies will disappear.

·       The energy cost will also be cut down by half.

·       If you teleport to an enemy while you are invisible you will stun enemies around you and increase the smoke cloud duration to 15 seconds.

 

Shuriken + Teleport:

·       Using the 1st ability on an enemy will show their health bar through walls longer, making you able to teleport to them as long as they are continually receiving bleeding ticks.

 

Shuriken + Blade Storm:

To increase the damage of bs you must use shuriken. As long as enemies continuously keep receiving bleeding ticks, your damage will increase over time with no limit.

·       Enemies need to be alive and bleeding from the 1st ability for bs to build up damage.

·       If no enemies are affected by slash, you will have five seconds before the damage is lost.

·       If the five seconds is up, the stored-up damage will decay overtime instead of disappearing completely.

·       There will be an indicator showing the amount of damage you are accumulating and the amount of time you have left.

·       If you get downed, the timer won`t start until you are revived.

3

There are some issues with Ash that need to be fixed

  Hide contents

·       Make Ash be able to teleport in and out of the same grates instead of just one direction.

·       Make opening enemies up to finishers consistent with 3rd ability.

·       Sometime ash is glitched and stabbing the air and he is unseen when using bs due to camera angle.

·       Make the “clones” look like him (like wukong`s 1st ability) instead of looking like a hologram.

·       When blade storm is done, Ash doesn’t appear at the same place he started at but instead is teleported in a different location.

1

At the time ash was ranked the number 1 favourite warframe by votes on Mogamu`s channel in 2016. Now he is one of the least played warframe stated by DE themselves on life of rio`s video in 2018.

Proof:

Mogamu`s vids https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adLohAFoWQc

Life of rio`s vids https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJRx6oTxF1Y

 

My re-visit to Ash makes him strategic in missions, more effective in stealth gameplay, gives him better and useful synergies, makes him more of an efficient killer in the art of assassination and makes him have a use in a team.

If you like my ideas please leave a like, hopefully DE can see this and make Ash way better than he is/was.

Edit: Also look in the comment section of me talking from more ideas to past events relating to Ash.

 

 

 

Here's my suggestion to Bladestorm.

Instead of individual targets you create shadow trap zones, the zones will stay active through a certain duration activating every time someone goes through it, you could have the ability to create multiple of these zones.

This will already make the ability feel way more interactive than the old brain dead gameplay, and way faster and more reliable than the newer target based style. Using teleport on it allows you to stay hidden within the zone making it viable to use it as a way to move out of danger. Using the Bladestorm zones in this way could also have a secondary effect, either allowing you to regenerate health or instantly regain shields or something along these lines.

[-RG-Mamamo]

On 2020-03-13 at 10:25 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

In my idea uses shuriken as a synergy option to increase bs`s damage which makes it to where you don`t need to use melee weapons to increase it`s damage and frees up mods on melee weapons. The two step process plus the marking mechanic makes bs slow, the marking mechanic should be for cc abilities not damage abilities.

Don't get me wrong, I like the shuriken increasing the damage of bs. But my thoughts of this is you're basically bringing back old ash? Correct me if I'm wrong. 

IMO, I don't find it very rewarding. I don't enjoy the part where any warframe can just press 4 and kill any enemy. It is fun for a while but then it gets stale. Though it is fast, but to me it's not interesting

P.S. About my marking mechanic is the idea that shuriken will instead BECOME the marking mechanic we all know and love.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 2020-03-14 at 1:41 AM, DreadWarlock said:

-snip-

That won`t be good for the fact that trap based abilities don`t work in warframe that's one of the reasons why Vauban was bad besides I`d rather have a new frame have the ability to do that.

19 hours ago, syndicate725 said:

Don't get me wrong, I like the shuriken increasing the damage of bs. But my thoughts of this is you're basically bringing back old ash? Correct me if I'm wrong. 

IMO, I don't find it very rewarding. I don't enjoy the part where any warframe can just press 4 and kill any enemy. It is fun for a while but then it gets stale. Though it is fast, but to me it's not interesting

P.S. About my marking mechanic is the idea that shuriken will instead BECOME the marking mechanic we all know and love.

Yes and no. It`s similar to the old bs but the difference is that it does not have any of the downsides. My idea does not hinder the players around him coz ppl can still take Ash`s kills for the fact that bs still kills three enemies at a time plus if you don`t want to be in the animation you don`t have to so it`s not as OP as the old bs.(if you look at my post I explain why my idea of bs is better) As for your shuriken idea in solo play it won`t be a prob but in public play it will be coz other ppl can take your kills and its still a two step process, my idea for shuriken is a synergy option.

[Awazx]

Ash's disastrous reworking is more than enough proof that DE doesn't understand his own game:

Your 1 is still useless (no increase).
Your 2 is insufficient.
Your 3 is unnecessary without augment and excellent with augment.
Your 4 ... who was the genius who came up with this slow and inefficient thing?

Why would you have to use your 4, if at the time when:

1. I activate your 4.
2. I take aim and look around for enemies.
3. I mark enemies with 1, 2, 3 marks.
4. I press your 4 again.
5. Repeat.

In the time spent on those 5 points, I annihilated 50 enemies with my Ignis or any melee weapon.

For what reason had to rework your old and excellent 4? It was a powerful ability, true. Are not the 4 weapons of Saryn, Volt, Mesa, Hydro ... also nuclear weapons? Isn't Ash supposed to be an assassin, HE an assassin of a squad and that's his role?

DE keeps making boring design decisions after absurd design decisions, after ...

I could also talk about "charging skills", another of DE's pearls of wit (I look at you, 1 from Vauban). Implement loading skills in an ultra-fast paced game like Warframe.  

[Ikyr0]

I love Ash. He is a melee platform and nuker hybrid. I just started playing him recently, and I only use Rising Storm. I know Fatal Teleport got gutted with dagger finisher nerfs. Seeking Shuriken is still great for endurance runs.

Overall, I really like his toolkit. Teleport probably being the least useful. Ash can wipe entire tilesets in seconds. Mark targets on one side of the room with Blade Storm, set it and forget it, and melee the other side. Room wiped in 3 seconds. I'm top kills in every Arby, and it's not even close. Blade Storm scale incredibly well, and shreds all factions. Nice for Grineer because you don't have to worry about armor.

[Ikyr0]

21 hours ago, Awazx said:

1.I activate your 4.

2. I take aim and look around for enemies.

3. I mark enemies with 1, 2, 3 marks.
 

You know that Blade Storm scales with the combo counter right? I was killing lvl 150 Grineer with only 1 mark at 12x. With a bit of range, you glance to one side of the room, skim over the mobs, and cast. Animation speed is faster if you're sliding, and with additional attack speed.While that animation is underway, I'm on the opposite side of the room meleeing another group with my 12x Zaw or Kronen Prime. In about 3 seconds, the entire room is wiped while you're still masturbating in a corner with your Ignis. It's impossible not to have top kills and damage with Ash in any longer run. I take Ash to Arbies and lvl 5 Lich missions. He matches or outperforms my nuke frames in terms of efficiency because, as you guys are forgetting, he can be killing in 2 places at once.

 

[(XBOX)INe Saninus]

I'm not one of those guys that gets on the forums and shoots down people's ideas. Talking about "it's fine". "If you don't like it, don't play it!"

 

...but you all are crazy on this one.

 

Ash is a monster. Seriously. 

His kit is amazing. Everytime I come in here and see this thread has been bumped, it boggles my mind.

He's got it all! 

-Armor strip with his 1+ augment.

-Cloak. Enough said.

-His teleport is a little janky, but really not a deal breaker.

-His 4 absolutely demolishes everything and it scales really well.

Yeah, you can't out cheese a few frames in that axi exterminate that you wanted to take top spot in dmg.

Okay. 

Your ego will recover.

If played right Ash does so much more though. He goes further.

I honestly just don't think people get it.

How efficiently he slides through a room and leaves nothing but corpses.

 

If you're worried about being #1 on the mission complete screen, maybe he's not for you...

(Though I usually take top spot with him anyway even though I'm a good 3 years past worrying about that...)

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 2020-03-13 at 11:43 PM, Thetarot said:

You can't improve the best frame in the game.

If you want to think that, I won`t stop you however the evidence I`ve presented say otherwise.

7 hours ago, (XB1)INe Saninus said:

His 4 absolutely demolishes everything and it scales really well.

Ladies and gents, this is one of the reasons why I posted this. This is one of ppl`s arguments when defending Ash which is null and void since no one has an issue with his damage, we know this and that`s not the point.

How about you go back and read my post and ppl`s comments and see the issues they have with Ash, you say your not one of those ppl but you surely did it on my post. Oh and this post will continue to get "bumped".

Even through I might know what your response will be, I`ll still ask the question. What do you think of my revisit to Ash?

 

[(XBOX)INe Saninus]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

If you want to think that, I won`t stop you however the evidence I`ve presented say otherwise.

Ladies and gents, this is one of the reasons why I posted this. This is one of ppl`s arguments when defending Ash which is null and void since no one has an issue with his damage, we know this and that`s not the point.

How about you go back and read my post and ppl`s comments and see the issues they have with Ash, you say your not one of those ppl but you surely did it on my post. Oh and this post will continue to get "bumped".

Even through I might know what your response will be, I`ll still ask the question. What do you think of my revisit to Ash?

 

Sooo... based on this post and your response I can see the way this is going.

Let's be clear:

Nothing in your post suggests keeping the mark and execute function of his 4.

Reading your suggestion (for the second time because I read it the first time I saw your post) it sounds like old blade storm.

An instant cast based on range.

I have no interest in going back to old Bladestorm.

It made Ash a one trick pony.

I like the tactical feel of the current BS.

I like the mark and execute feel. Reminds me of Splinter Cell.

I also enjoy using it to mark enemies just to highlight them in dark or busy areas that I have no intention of using the skill on.

 

Sorry, buzz... just sounds like normal salt from a player losing his kills to a nuke frame to me.

(Shrugs)

That MR 12 can have those kills.

I'll pick him up when he goes down on wave 4 of that Hydron we're running.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

20 hours ago, (XB1)INe Saninus said:

Sorry, buzz... just sounds like normal salt from a player losing his kills to a nuke frame to me.

Not the case. From the probs I pointed out the marking mechanic makes bs slow and not able to be used efficiently in a team, the marking system should not be tied to damaging abilities whether you like it or not is a different story. I keep saying this and no one has answered me yet, if Saryn, Ember, Banshee, Mesa etc had the marking mechanic, would would you (or ppl) be happy with it? Also look bellow at Awazx and see what his issue is.

On 2020-03-18 at 8:20 AM, Awazx said:

Ash's disastrous reworking is more than enough proof that DE doesn't understand his own game:

Your 4 ... who was the genius who came up with this slow and inefficient thing?

Why would you have to use your 4, if at the time when:

1. I activate your 4.
2. I take aim and look around for enemies.
3. I mark enemies with 1, 2, 3 marks.
4. I press your 4 again.
5. Repeat.

In the time spent on those 5 points, I annihilated 50 enemies with my Ignis or any melee weapon.

Agreed, DE don`t play their own game, only Pabalo has the bloody since to play, understand the issues and try to solve them.

Also since you feel this way, what do you think of my improvements to Ash? 

On 2020-03-19 at 5:41 AM, Ikyr0 said:

-snip-

What`s you opinion of my revisit to Ash? do you think it would make you experience with Ash better?

[(XBOX)INe Saninus]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Not the case. From the probs I pointed out the marking mechanic makes bs slow and not able to be used efficiently in a team, the marking system should not be tied to damaging abilities whether you like it or not is a different story. I keep saying this and no one has answered me yet, if Saryn, Ember, Banshee, Mesa etc had the marking mechanic, would would you (or ppl) be happy with it? Also look bellow at Awazx and see what his issue 

I'm not really interested in continuing this conversation, just offering a counter point for any dev interest this thread might generate.

Your reply highlights my point even further. There are already frames that do not have a marking mechanic.

Choose one of those. Leave Ash as is for those of us who enjoy it.

If you want an exalted weapon, use Excal or Baruuk...

If you want to easily nuke, use Saryn or Mesa or Volt...

I like Ash's 4 just the way it is.

I like his 2 just the way it is.

I like his 1 just the way it is.

Wouldn't mind changes to his 3.

Just my opinion.

 

[Ikyr0]

56 minutes ago, (XB1)INe Saninus said:

 

I like Ash's 4 just the way it is.

I like his 2 just the way it is.

I like his 1 just the way it is.

Wouldn't mind changes to his 3.

Just my opinion.

 

Same here.

He's got a cohesive kit with 4 functional abilities. Agreed that Teleport could use a buff, given that dagger finishers got absolutely rekt by melee 3.0. 

There are frames that only have 2 functional abilities, or that are complete trash requiring complete overhauls. Ash isn't one of those frames. He's A-tier.