Ash: His current problems and the solutions to fix them

[(PSN)Vexx757]

 @Paul_PianoffSome of your ideas have got my attention. You said you not deep into Ash, since I'm a Ash main I have been contemplating unique ways to improve his abilities. Take a look and my post and tell me what you think.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

14 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

So that being said what do you think of my revisit to Ash in general?

Biggest problem is your proposed bladestorm changes are effectively how it functioned initially. Press 4 and round robin everything in sight... basically embers new 4.

I dont dislike the marking system.. but it does need to be active.

So keeping both: allow bladestorms clones to make their attack as soon as marks are made, while the marking mode is active.. turn pressing 4 into a toggle exclusively for marking, and have the attack always on.

In a nutshell, go from press 4 to mark, press again to launch attack to

 -> press 4 to start marking and attacking, press 4 again to stop marking, letting the already active clones preform the remaining marks.

This wouldnt remove the ability to join in (i like the idea of holding 4 to do that vs pressing 3).

 

 

Some of most fun i have with ash is running around with 4 toggling rapidly, as this sends out the bladestorm attack as often as possible. This suggestion effectively makes this part of the abilitys behavior by default. Outside of rapid toggle, teammates kill enemies too fast for mass marking. These changes would have no affect on solo play, as marking still builds up since there are only 2 clones active at a given moment.

This change could even be made a new augment for ashes bladestorm, as this kind of preformance shift is common for warframe augments.

[Azzraill]

Здравствуйте я из России пишу вам в связи с таким варфрэймом как Эш я люблю играть за этого варфрэма но меня очень беспокоит что ему переделали 4 способность Бурю клинков после реворка им стало вообще неудобно играть т.к бегать и отмечать цели надо постоянно пока бегаешь и отмичаешь их и если играешь на высоких уровнях то мобы тебя просто напросто убивают играть через 4 способность теперь абсолютно неудобно раньше им играть было куда приятнее когда ненадо было отмечать цели когда Эш вырубал все что встречал на своём пути он был куда домажнее и полезнее а сейчас играть именно через 4 способность но просто невозможно пока бегаешь на высоких уровнях и отмечаешь цели тебя просто напросто убивают и все играть через такую способность ну просто невозможно вообще 

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 2020-04-28 at 9:59 AM, Azzraill said:

-Translated-

Hello, I am writing from Russia to you in connection with such a warframe as Ash. I like to play for this warframe but it really worries me that he was remade 4 ability. A storm of blades after the coup d'etat it became generally inconvenient for them to play because running and marking goals need to be constantly running and waving them and if you play at high levels, then the mobs just kill you to play after 4 ability is now absolutely uncomfortable before they play was much nicer when it was not necessary to mark goals when Ash cut down everything that he met on his way he was much more home and it’s more useful and now it’s possible to play through 4 ability, but it’s just impossible while you are running at high levels and marking goals, they’re just killing you and playing everything through this ability is simply impossible at all

Agreed. And that`s what ppl don`t understand the biggest problem is that in the marking stage other ppl can take you kills low and high levels. The marking mechanic imo should be for cc abilities (example Inaros` 4th ability) not damaging abilities EVER. This mechanic for Wukong and Venari makes sense and is useful however on Ash it makes sense but in practise is terrible and if I have to choose between an ability to make sense or making it work in gameplay I will always choose the 2nd since after all gameplay is important and wf defies making sense. (hydroids 2nd ability)

Just to ask since you feel this way what do you think of my Ash revisit? and would these changes make you enjoy playing Ash?

If you can`t read this, just copy my words and past it in google translate.

 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

6 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Agreed. And that`s what ppl don`t understand the biggest problem is that in the marking stage other ppl can take you kills low and high levels. The marking mechanic imo should be for cc abilities (example Inaros` 4th ability) not damaging abilities EVER. This mechanic for Wukong and Venari makes sense and is useful however on Ash it makes sense but in practise is terrible and if I have to choose between an ability to make sense or making it work in gameplay I will always choose the 2nd since after all gameplay is important and wf defies making sense. (hydroids 2nd ability)

Just to ask since you feel this way what do you think of my Ash revisit? and would these changes make you enjoy playing Ash?

If you can`t read this, just copy my words and past it in google translate.

 

Seeing that a lot of good hearted folks in the general section of the forums are seeing ash in the same light that I don't.

In my personal opinion I do think Ash is fine, However i do think a few Qol Changes could make ash more enjoyable for the masses.

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Here we go i guess.

_______________________________________________________________________Passives________________________________________________________________________________

Passive / Description : ( In short Ash does more damage with slash procs, and they last %50 longer) As it stands ashes passive is okay. I do think that an additional buff to the damage of slash procs would be beneficial.I do think that Adding something along the lines of these would benefit his passive and overall the theme of Ash

Passive/Updates : +

While invisible or undetected all of ashes weapons are silent

Slash procs Deal %50 more damage but only last %20 longer/ When undetected or invisible ^Ash gets above passive^ + He is able to move %20(more or less) faster undetected or invisible as well as all abilities cast while mentioned above have an additional %15 power strength buff 

Passives TLDR                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

 While his passive isnt that great at base it isnt that terrible either with slash being the most damaging out of IPS and overall the most effective I think that keeping it intact in his build would be beneficial  to his theme and kit. (I think im going to say this many times) Ash is not a map clearing Dps overall he is not saryn and he is not mesa. Ash by design is a single target dps and I dont sit right with trying to change his identity.  Overall With these proposed passives I think that keeping his theme of  stealth get in and get out and Kill high value targets

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 ______________________________________________________________________Shuriken________________________________________________________________________________

Current Ability: 

Launches a spinning blade of pain, dealing high damage and impaling enemies to walls. 

Strength:100 / 250 / 350 / 500 (damage)
Duration:N/A
Range:N/A
Misc: 1 / 1 / 2 / 2 ( 60m Targeting Range)

Damage is affected by Ability Strength.
The Bleed DoT inflicts 43.75% of the initial damage per tick for a total of 10 ticks over 9 seconds, due to Ash's passive. The Bleed damage bypasses armor and shields.
Should Shuriken hit an enemy's head, the Bleed DoT will inflict 87.5% of the initial damage per tick for the same duration.

Proposed Rework:

Launches a spinning blade of pain, dealing high damage and impaling enemies to walls. (The number of Shurikens now is Dependent on power strength with a max of 5)

Strength: 200 / 375 / 425 / 600? (damage)
Duration:N/A
Range:N/A
Misc: 1 / 2 / 3 / 3 ( 60m Targeting Range)

Damage is affected by Ability Strength.
The Bleed DoT inflicts 43.75% of the initial damage per tick for a total of 10 ticks over 9 seconds, due to Ash's passive. The Bleed damage bypasses armor and shields.
Should Shuriken hit an enemy's head, the Bleed DoT will inflict 87.5% of the initial damage per tick for the same duration. ( Personally this passive is kinda broken if the damage of the Shrukiens was a little bit better)

Shuriken TDLR_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Ashes Shurkens can be strong without augment. and with the proposed Buff to the amount being added you're able to participate in team play slightly better so you dont have to feel bad for people stealing your kills.

on top of that i believe that this is somewhat of a balanced fix. Allowing ash to remain true to his theme while not being absurdly broken

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

____________________________________________________________________Smoke Screen___________________________________________________________________________

Current Ability

Ash throws down a smoke bomb that staggers enemies within a radius of 10 meters for a short duration. Ash becomes untargetable for 2 / 4 / 6 / 8 seconds.
Duration is affected by Ability Duration.
Stagger radius is affected by Ability Range.
Stealth Damage Multipliers are applied to melee attacks. Coming into physical contact with the enemy while attacking will temporarily remove the damage bonus.
Even though Ash is untargetable, enemies will continue to attack near his last known location, and will make attempts to retaliate when harmed.
Does not make Ash silent. Firing an unsuppressed weapon while under the effects of Smoke Screen will still alert nearby enemies to the player's presence.
Hides Ash from Security Cameras, which prevents them from activating laser barriers.
Smoke Screen will also apply to any equipped companion.
Ash can not be knocked down or staggered during the cast animation.
Can be cast while moving or in mid-air.
Cannot be recast while active.
Smoke Screen does not end when Ash is downed.

Proposed Rework

Ash throws down a smoke bomb that staggers enemies within a radius of 10 meters for a short duration. Ash becomes untargetable for  3/ 4 / 8 / 10 seconds.
Duration is affected by Ability Duration.
Stagger radius is affected by Ability Range.
Stealth Damage Multipliers are applied to melee attacks. Coming into physical contact with the enemy while attacking will temporarily remove the damage bonus.
Even though Ash is untargetable, enemies will continue to attack near his last known location, and will make attempts to retaliate when harmed.
Does make Ash silent. 
Hides Ash from Security Cameras, which prevents them from activating laser barriers.
Smoke Screen will also apply to any equipped companion.
Ash can not be knocked down or staggered during the cast animation.
Can be cast while moving or in mid-air.
Cannot be recast while active.
Smoke Screen does not end when Ash is downed.

Smoke Screen TDLR___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I wanted to keep it simple as this isnt a bad ability. the duration is short for the purpose of ganking flanking and well.... assassinating your target. while intettwining with the new proposed passive you get some nice buffs 

____________________________________________________________________Fatal Teleport_____________________________________________________________________________

Current Ability: 

Ash performs a somersault as he teleports to a target within 20 / 45 / 45 / 60 meters on his aiming reticle. If the target is an enemy, it is staggered and opened to a melee finisher attack.
Targeting range is affected by Ability Range.
Eligible teleport targets include: enemies, allies, hostages, Cryopods, Excavators, and destructible objects.
If the enemy cannot be attacked with a melee finisher (either due to positioning or the enemy type), it will be susceptible to Stealth Damage Multipliers from melee attacks for the duration of the stagger.
As with SmokeScreen130xDark Smoke Screen, coming into physical contact with the enemy while attacking will temporarily remove the damage bonus.
Can be cast for free on a marked enemy target during BladeStorm130xDark Blade Storm's Shadow Clones assault phase. Ash will teleport to the targeted enemy and strike it and all remaining marked enemies in a cinematic cutscene sequence.
When an unmarked enemy is targeted instead, Ash will attack it once before striking all remaining marked enemies.
Requires direct line of sight to a small part of the target to cast.
Can be used while in mid-air.
Note that using Teleport on enemies will alert them to your presence, preventing you from receiving the Stealth Kill affinity bonus.
Wardens additionally lose the massive stealth attack bonus they receive from normal stealth attacks.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Proposed Rework:

Ash performs a somersault as he teleports to a target within 20 / 45 / 45 / 60 meters on his aiming reticle. If the target is an enemy, it is staggered and opened to a melee finisher attack.
Targeting range is affected by Ability Range.
Eligible teleport targets include: enemies, allies, hostages, Cryopods, Excavators, and destructible objects.
If the enemy cannot be attacked with a melee finisher (either due to positioning or the enemy type), it will be susceptible to Stealth Damage Multipliers from melee attacks for the duration of the stagger.
As with Smoke Screen, coming into physical contact with the enemy while attacking will temporarily remove the damage bonus.
Can be cast for free on a marked enemy target during  Blade Storm's Shadow Clones assault phase. Ash will teleport to the targeted enemy and strike it and all remaining marked enemies in a cinematic cutscene sequence.
When an unmarked enemy is targeted instead, Ash will attack it once before striking all remaining marked enemies.
Requires direct line of sight to a small part of the target to cast.
Can be used while in mid-air.
Note that using Teleport on enemies will alert them to your presence, preventing you from receiving the Stealth Kill affinity bonus.
Wardens additionally lose the massive stealth attack bonus they receive from normal stealth attacks.

+If cast during smoke screen and renaming enemies are undetected The duration of smoke screen is refreshed

Seeking Shuriken TDLR________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

With his new passive its even easier to proc this. and with his augment its disgusting in solo play and possibly group play if your team is just a stealthy as you are on top of that it fits the narritive of get in get out and rewards you for being an "assassin"

__________________________________________________________________________BladeStorm________________________________________________________________________

Current Ability:

Ash instantly enters a state of intense focus as he searches for targets to assassinate. During targeting mode, enemies within 50 meters from Ash that are seen near the aiming reticle become tagged with a death mark. Staring at marked enemies longer or swiping the reticle over them again will add up to 2 additional death marks, signifying more than one potential attack.
Applying a mark during targeting mode will consume 12 energy. If Ash is invisible by any means (e.g. using  Smoke Screen) when the mark is applied, then only 6 energy is consumed.
Energy cost per mark is affected by Ability Efficiency.
Target acquisition range is affected by Ability Range.
If a marked enemy moves out of the target acquisition range, then all marks on the target are removed and energy spent marking will be refunded. The amount refunded is equivalent to the amount initially used to apply the mark.
If a marked enemy is killed before all of its marks are consumed, then the energy for each unused mark will be refunded.
Maximum number of marks per enemy is not affected by mods and is capped at 3 marks per enemy.
Marked enemies become highlighted in red and display death mark icons above their heads.
Death mark icon color is affected by Ash's chosen Warframe energy color.
A counter on the ability icon displays the total amount of death marks that have been applied. The number displayed counts down for every mark removed.
When at least 1 enemy is marked, reactivating the ability will spawn 2 Shadow Clones that teleport between and strike all marked enemies. Each strike consumes one mark and performs a Front or Back Finisher which inflicts 750 / 1000 / 1500 / 2000 TrueDmg b True damage with a 100% Slash b Bleed chance.
Damage is affected by Ability Strength,  Steel Charge,  Savage Silence, Radiant Finish, Executing Dash,  Arcane Fury, Arcane Blade Charger, and combo counter multipliers.
Melee damage mods do not affect Blade Storm's damage.
The Bleed's DoT inflicts 43.75% of the initial damage per tick for a total of 10 ticks over 9 seconds. The Bleed damage bypasses armor.
VenkaPrime Venka Prime`s passive of an increased combo counter also provides higher bonus damage over other weapons, and seems to be the only melee weapon to have any influence over Blade Storm's damage output.
All strikes from Ash and his clones add to the melee combo counter.
Strikes from the Shadow Clones add 1 hit per enemy.
Strikes from Ash have a chance to add more than one hit per enemy depending on the amount of times he stabs the enemy.
Blade Storm's Slash b Slash procs do not add to the melee combo counter, even with  Relentless Combination equipped.
 Body Count,  Drifting Contact, and Gladiator Rush increase the combo counter duration.
Animation speed is affected by mods that influence attack speed (e.g.Fury),  Speed, Warcry, and Arcane Strike. Animation speed is not affected by the base weapon's attack speed, Berserker, or casting speed mods (e.g., Mod TT 20px Natural Talent).
During the Shadow Clones' assault, Ash can cast  Teleport on a marked enemy at no additional energy cost to participate in Blade Storm. Ash becomes invulnerable to damage for the duration of the assault, as he teleports and strikes all remaining marked enemies in a cinematic cutscene sequence. Once all marks are consumed, Ash teleports back to the original cast location to resume normal combat.
Although joining Blade Storm doesn't cost additional energy, Ash must have enough energy to cast Teleport to join.
Strikes by Ash on marked enemies use the same damage values and behaviors as his Shadow Clones.
Ash will attempt to strike each marked enemy once. After a marked enemy has been attacked by Ash, his Shadow Clones can continue to attack the enemy to consume any remaining marks provided the target is still alive.
Ash will also regenerate his shields during the animation.
Targeting mode can be activated, reactivated, and deactivated instantly without interrupting Ash's actions.
While in targeting mode, Ash emits black smoke and sees the environment through a monochrome screen overlay.
Ash is still able to perform all other functions, such as moving, maneuvering, casting other abilities, and firing or reloading weapons while in targeting mode.
If there are no marked enemies, reactivating Blade Storm will simply deactivate targeting mode.
Ash cannot enter targeting mode if his Shadow Clones are still attacking marked enemies.
Blade Storm hits can damage across the Rift Plane.
It is possible to trigger  Arcane Trickery,  Arcane Ultimatum, and Exodia Might with Blade Storm.
These Arcanes only trigger if enemies die from Blade Storm's attacks and not from its Slash b Slash procs.
During targeting mode and teleport strikes, Ash is able to gain energy from all sources (e.g. Energy Orbs,  Energy Vampire, Rift Plane energy regeneration, etc).
Proposed Rework_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Ash instantly enters a state of intense focus as he searches for targets to assassinate. During targeting mode, enemies within 50 meters from Ash that are seen near the aiming reticle (The reticle range is extended and is now a small cone the user can see. (does not extend with range mods) the range of the Reticle is about 8-9x bigger thant the current reticle) Upon casting BS All enemies are marked within that radius and will gain a mark above them ever 2 seconds) Upon Pressing Ultimate again bladestorm is activated 
Applying a mark during targeting mode will consume 12 energy. If Ash is invisible by any means (e.g. using  Smoke Screen) when the mark is applied, then only 4 energy is consumed.
Energy cost per mark is affected by Ability Efficiency.
Target acquisition range is affected by Ability Range.
If a marked enemy moves out of the target acquisition range, then all marks on the target are removed and energy spent marking will be refunded. The amount refunded is equivalent to the amount initially used to apply the mark.
If a marked enemy is killed before all of its marks are consumed, then the energy for each unused mark will be refunded.
Maximum number of marks per enemy is not affected by mods and is capped at 4 marks per enemy.
Marked enemies become highlighted in red and display death mark icons above their heads.
Death mark icon color is affected by Ash's chosen Warframe energy color.
A counter on the ability icon displays the total amount of death marks that have been applied. The number displayed counts down for every mark removed.
When at least 1 enemy is marked, reactivating the ability will spawn 2 Shadow Clones that teleport between and strike all marked enemies. Each strike consumes one mark and performs a Front or Back Finisher which inflicts 1750 True Damage(only one mark is required to do max damage) Further marks increase Slash Damage and Duration of bleed by %15 per mark)  with a 100% Slash b Bleed chance.
Damage is affected by Ability Strength,  Steel Charge,  Savage Silence, Radiant Finish, Executing Dash,  Arcane Fury, Arcane Blade Charger, and combo counter multipliers.
Melee damage mods do not affect Blade Storm's damage.
The Bleed's DoT inflicts 43.75% of the initial damage per tick for a total of 10 ticks over 9 seconds. The Bleed damage bypasses armor.
VenkaPrime Venka Prime`s passive of an increased combo counter also provides higher bonus damage over other weapons, and seems to be the only melee weapon to have any influence over Blade Storm's damage output.
All strikes from Ash and his clones add to the melee combo counter.
Strikes from the Shadow Clones add 1 hit per enemy.
Strikes from Ash have a chance to add more than one hit per enemy depending on the amount of times he stabs the enemy.
Blade Storm's Slash b Slash procs do not add to the melee combo counter, even with  Relentless Combination equipped.
 Body Count,  Drifting Contact, and Gladiator Rush increase the combo counter duration.
Animation speed is affected by mods that influence attack speed (e.g.Fury),  Speed, Warcry, and Arcane Strike. Animation speed is not affected by the base weapon's attack speed, Berserker, or casting speed mods (e.g., Mod TT 20px Natural Talent).
During the Shadow Clones' assault, Ash can cast  Teleport on a marked enemy at no additional energy cost to participate in Blade Storm. Ash becomes invulnerable to damage for the duration of the assault, as he teleports and strikes all remaining marked enemies in a cinematic cutscene sequence. Once all marks are consumed, Ash teleports back to the original cast location to resume normal combat.
Although joining Blade Storm doesn't cost additional energy, (Removed energy cost to join BS as that is (BS) all pun intended 
Strikes by Ash on marked enemies use the same damage values and behaviors as his Shadow Clones.
Ash will attempt to strike each marked enemy once. After a marked enemy has been attacked by Ash, his Shadow Clones can continue to attack the enemy to consume any remaining marks provided the target is still alive.
Ash will also regenerate his shields during the animation.
Targeting mode can be activated, reactivated, and deactivated instantly without interrupting Ash's actions.
While in targeting mode, Ash emits black smoke and sees the environment through a monochrome screen overlay.
Ash is still able to perform all other functions, such as moving, maneuvering, casting other abilities, and firing or reloading weapons while in targeting mode.
If there are no marked enemies, reactivating Blade Storm will simply deactivate targeting mode.
Ash cannot enter targeting mode if his Shadow Clones are still attacking marked enemies.
Blade Storm hits can damage across the Rift Plane.
It is possible to trigger  Arcane Trickery,  Arcane Ultimatum, and Exodia Might with Blade Storm.
These Arcanes only trigger if enemies die from Blade Storm's attacks and not from its Slash b Slash procs.
During targeting mode and teleport strikes, Ash is able to gain energy from all sources (e.g. Energy Orbs,  Energy Vampire, Rift Plane energy regeneration, etc).
BladeStorm TDLR_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

While i do find the targeting for bladestorm fine. i do understand others may think otehrwise. so While trying to respect the reason that they removed old nuke ash prime i wanted to make a compromise so that other players may enjoy using the move while keeping this theme. intact. as he isnt saryn or mess or equinox he's is ash and he does not need a map wide nuke to perform well.

_______________________________________________________________________________Overall TDLR______________________________________________

Ash is a great frame. While i dont think anything is wrong with him at the moment again i can see  why people have a hard time enjoying him. At the same time i dont think anything major or drastic needs to be added to his kit in order for him to perform well. As ash already does perform very well. His kit has aged very good over time and im glad to say he isn't in a worse position. Overall please let me know what you think of the small tweaks and changes ive suggested and fell free to provide your own input,

 here are my propsed changes

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 2020-04-28 at 5:06 AM, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

-snip- 

I don`t see an issue with my bs idea since it addresses the problems it currently has and it`s not the same as the way it was before it`s a combination of the old and the current. Imo the marking mechanic should not be tied to damage, imagine if saryn, mesa, banshee and equinox having the marking mechanic ppl will quickly see how bad it is.

As for it to be interactive, every ability don`t need to be interactive however I have an idea for that when you in the animation. (go back and read it under vex-info) You still get the choice to jump in or send clones but without the marking besides the quick activation gives you better dps by getting to enemies quicker.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

I don`t see an issue with my bs idea since it addresses the problems it currently has and it`s not the same as the way it was before it`s a combination of the old and the current. Imo the marking mechanic should not be tied to damage, imagine if saryn, mesa, banshee and equinox having the marking mechanic ppl will quickly see how bad it is.

As for it to be interactive, every ability don`t need to be interactive however I have an idea for that when you in the animation. (go back and read it under vex-info) You still get the choice to jump in or send clones but without the marking besides the quick activation gives you better dps by getting to enemies quicker.

However it dosent. They removed instant activation bladestorm for a reason. And I’m sure they’d not want it in the game again.  That’s why I proposed the changes above. On top of that having to hold your buttion down to not be in animation makes no true since and is more of an inconvenience then anything 

[(PSN)Vexx757]

vexx-info:

I know this is off-topic but I would like for you to view my post on my idea of a warframe I created. Reason being that this is the concept I put up on the warframe competition and I was one of the ppl that was upset about the chosen top 10 and the broken frame being picked. 

Just to peak your interest... 

·       The concept is a (un) lucky/slot machine based warframe.

·       The name of the frame is Karma.

·       It`s female frame.

·       Whatever you do while ability is active will have a good or bad result on Karma and allies.

·       Abilities could be based on corrupted mods e.g. critical delay, smeeta kavat.

·       Abilities could reward you based on skill.

·       It visually looks similar to wisp warframe.

·       It`s a support warframe that grants all types of buffs, damage, CC, health and energy recovery, speed buff.

 

Since its not about Ash please leave your comments on that post NOT HERE. I want to see what you guys think and if you would be satisfied if this frame was in the top 10 or picked.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1189070-un-lucky-warframe-karma/

 

[(PSN)Vexx757]

For the ppl that don`t know about Ash or want to know more about him, here is his patch history showing his improvements and nerfs to his abilities he has received since his release.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Ash#Patch History

[silver5430]

I got some ideas to improve Ash

For his 1: add a new functionality like hold it to make him throw more shurikens, or to throw a bunch of shurikens in a 360 degree aoe around him

For his 3: add a hold ability function, when you hold it, it becomes a targetting marker for where he will teleport to, stop holding to make him teleport to that location and perform an aoe slam with the melee weapon to damage enemies around (damage can be scaled like Atlas, Khora and Gara's first abilities), can be teleported to empty ground and no enemies or allies needed, range is the same as tap ability

[(PSN)Vexx757]

@silver5430 @-Ash_hole- What to you think of my revisit to Ash? and will it make you play Ash even more?

@This_Guy_Steve Can you tell me specifically what you like about my ideas for Ash?

[JimboOhara]

There are some active threads on Ash right now, I will post here my responses there with a link to both of them, just to avoid rewriting again 🤣, actually OP replied in both of those threads.

These are some days apart so I thought and playtested a bit between them but the idea is to share my thoughts here as well, it would be nice to have a unique thread on the Warframe so that if the team in DE would actually read our feedback, it could be as easy as possible for them to get to it.

I think it would be nice to format the messages in an easy to read format, I write and read a lot of documentation at work and it is kind of difficult to follow weirdly formatted walls of text.

[WOWESOMUCHDOGE]

Well i use ash as a tank
Fatal tele+arcane ultimatum
rage+fleeting expertise
triple umbral + gladiator resolve + adaptation

because i think his bladestorm is kinda useless, hope DE sees this thread and think about reworking him

[ES-Flinter]

vor 30 Minuten schrieb WOWESOMUCHDOGE:

Well i use ash as a tank
Fatal tele+arcane ultimatum
rage+fleeting expertise
triple umbral + gladiator resolve + adaptation

because i think his bladestorm is kinda useless, hope DE sees this thread and think about reworking him

How long can tank Ash survive in a survival mission? My record is just 1h and 5min (Abritation-Grineer). But I didn't had an arcane grace and arcane protector was also just rank 3 of 5.

[WOWESOMUCHDOGE]

9 minutes ago, ES-Flinter said:

How long can tank Ash survive in a survival mission? My record is just 1h and 5min (Abritation-Grineer). But I didn't had an arcane grace and arcane protector was also just rank 3 of 5.

i've done up to 2 hours with no issue  but never tried anything beyond because i dont think my fatal teleport can insta kill anymore
but u just need a good melee (can be modded by crit)
equip arcane ultimanum + anything ( i use fury, u can use guardian for more tankiness)
equip daikyu with the amalgam lifesteal mod n u're good to go

pressing 3 only cost 10energy will refill ur 1200 armor for 40 seconds, u able to tank n lifesteal because adaptation n 1800+ hp, getting hit will replenish ur energy

[silver5430]

On 2020-05-08 at 7:44 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

@silver5430 @-Ash_hole- What to you think of my revisit to Ash? and will it make you play Ash even more?

It is okay improvement but isn't really what Ash needed, personally I think his 2 and 4 are okay as is. What he needs is more aoe damage capability rather than team support, that's why I suggested more aoe options on his 1 and 3. It's still fine if he gets more team support though, I'd still play him. He's my favorite warframe and I just wish he got more aoe damage.

[(PSN)DidelphisV]

I’ve always had this idea for Bladestorm to make it like Hydroid’s Tentacle swarm. So you can tap it to hit everything in an area (either targeted or maybe just around him) but hold it to increase radius and damage (at the cost of more energy and slower cast speed)

or just make it like ember’s 4th, with its pseudo-line of sight (that seems to ignore obstacles)

 

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 2020-05-09 at 4:56 PM, (PS4)DidelphisV said:

or just make it like ember’s 4th, with its pseudo-line of sight (that seems to ignore obstacles)

Yh his bs working like ember`s 4th  would also be a good option however it would have to ignore los because the ability is slow and coz of the laws of teleportation. To add to this press to brings Ash into the animation while hold sends clones out. Also what do you think of my revisit to Ash?

[Archwizard]

I think one of the main problems Ash has right now is that most of his kit is kind of redundant.

Shuriken and Blade Storm both compete for the role of "flat damage attack with Bleed proc". Blade Storm and Teleport both compete for the role of "instantly inflict Finisher on target", only slightly alleviated by the "synergy" Teleport has during Blade Storm.

While his more recent reworks did cram some synergy into his kit (by means of giving him reduced costs while Smoke Bomb is active), it wasn't really enough to have an Ash main say "I have a use for all of my skills". If you have the augment for Teleport you might use three of them, but for the most part, just Smoke Bomb and Blade Storm.

On 2020-01-03 at 2:37 AM, Xarteros said:

My suggestion for Ash is, and always will be, to replace his 4 with a 'Hunter mode'. Enemies are shown through walls, and their hearts (or power cores for robots) are revealed as a glowing point in their body. In this mode, casting 1 summons distant clones that fire shurikens from other angles (all at once if in an open area, or one-at-a-time if in narrow spaces). Casting 2 deploys close-range clones to engage opponents in melee, and casting 3 deploys clones to perform finishers around your teleport target. While in the mode, there's either a drain over time, a decrease in power efficiency, or both (to compensate for the additional effects). Hitting a target's heart/core with your weapon deals true damage, and possibly some measure of punch-through bonus in doing so. With the addition of Parazon finishers, you could even make a unique finisher option using the Parazon or Ash's oldschool Dark Dagger for special (and quick) finishers.

That's actually a really inspiring idea, though I think there's a way it can be simplified without effectively doubling his ability count.

So, let's start with what you said, replacing his Ultimate skill with a "hunter mode" -- in keeping with the assassin theme of his kit, I'll call it... "Death Striker".

First thing of course, is that while this mode is toggled active, Ash can see enemies through walls (infrared sight!) and spot them on the map -- pretty much the big thing a supposed stealthy assassin is missing, actually knowing where the target is.
This also means that Ash can target enemies through walls to reach them with Teleport.
To make this ultimate worthwhile, this mode also needs to give him some bonus, like increased Finisher and Bleed damage, or better yet, having Shadow Clones mimic his attacks on all enemies within a certain range of his target; since the assets already exist and it's way flashier, I'm leaning on the latter.

Now, the rest of it is going to be base effects to the rest of his kit, even without the mode active.

Shuriken: Charge-cast to throw additional Shuriken. Now you can combine this with his new ultimate to rapidly mow down a crowd with help from his Shadow Clones throwing extra Shuriken at all enemies in range of each target you hit, and potentially even multi-hitting. Shuriken becomes, essentially, your dedicated AoE tool.

Smoke Bomb: Recast at-will. Also, no effect on non-alerted enemies, but alerted enemies in range of the bomb are briefly blinded (instead of just stunned, giving a chance at free finishers), and then suffer an accuracy debuff for the remaining duration of the initial Smoke Bomb.
Now you have a skill that both gives Ash a little more teamplay and personal survivability, and doesn't cost his theme at all.

Teleport: Now has a 5-8 sec combo timer to reduce its cost on the next cast, during which your Finisher animations are also accelerated. Just to maintain that last bit of old Blade Storm flavor, because otherwise DE will always hold it against us that Ash wouldn't be able to do something from the trailers.

And finally, for his passive, a higher reach for Stealth/Mercy attacks, and something similar to Garuda: Ash can choose to equip his trademark pair of punching daggers when he has no melee weapon equipped. Could even pull a Dark Split-Sword moment and give them a choice between (Claw/Fist?) or Dual Dagger stances.

Then you can just have the ultimate lock him into melee without suffering a penalty, and further encourage Shuriken as a bypass.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

19 hours ago, Archwizard said:

I think one of the main problems Ash has right now is that most of his kit is kind of redundant.

Shuriken and Blade Storm both compete for the role of "flat damage attack with Bleed proc". Blade Storm and Teleport both compete for the role of "instantly inflict Finisher on target", only slightly alleviated by the "synergy" Teleport has during Blade Storm.

While his more recent reworks did cram some synergy into his kit (by means of giving him reduced costs while Smoke Bomb is active), it wasn't really enough to have an Ash main say "I have a use for all of my skills". If you have the augment for Teleport you might use three of them, but for the most part, just Smoke Bomb and Blade Storm.

I don`t think you read my post because I have address the issues you have with Ash so tell me what do you think of my revisit to Ash? and would it make you play Ash more?

[Dano216]

I think you have some great ideas that would help bring Ash more relevant for the current meta and game modes. 

Two things I want to point out:

1. His abilities should be reworked to function well in a team environment which you identified and have addressed

2. He's a ninja, and to me, being a ninja is all about precision and speed. Again, you have addressed these in your ideas, specifically in regards to allowing his 1 to be more precise, his 3 being more versatile, and his 4 activating faster. 

 

The one thing I want to add is that it seems Ash more than most wants increased strength, efficiency, duration, and range. In his current state his strength needs to be at least 150% (I think) to enable full armor stripping, the duration of his 2 is very low "out of the box" so he needs some attention there, most of his abilities really want range, and his base energy is low, so one really needs to either add (primed) flow or efficiency because his kit encourages you to use his abilities a lot. In my experience it is really tough to build a well rounded version of him that allows all abilities to be used frequently without the trade offs being a little frustrating. 

My suggestions, in addition to what the OP said:

1. higher base energy

2. his augment for his 1 should be part of the ability by default

3. increase duration of his 2 and/or allow him to cast it on allies and defense objectives (hold for self, tap to cast - like Titania's 1)

 

[Nightbind]

How long does it take for DE to finally revisit Ash? Jeez.

[ES-Flinter]

vor 44 Minuten schrieb Roguegrind:

How long does it take for DE to finally revisit Ash? Jeez.

Probably never. Ash main problem is that he perfectly fits the meta (killing). And there is also the problem that Ash problems are not as easy to see like from other frames like from chroma.

[Kageryuzen]

I agree with everything written here as Ash rework.

It requires some revisions on his 4 especially.

Right now I feel like a drawback to my team in most cases ...

I hope it will have his touch ups to match up with immortal and/or 1 button warframes

[xXBlackSparrow]

just read this, and I am totally agree with the topic.

Ash's 4th Ability as per mentioned, honestly need reworked.
Why?

simply because it is too slow to start killing enemies around him. you need to do 3 things to "complete" the kill.

 

1. Activating the ability.

2. Mark the opponent(s)

3. execute the ability by pressing the same button again.

 

I considered myself as a new player in this game. made some research and found out that his 4th ability was imba instead and YES I do agree that his 4th ability should be nerfed.

but currently after playing with my senior friends, I ended up being a less useless when I use Ash.

I can't kill as fast as I want because of his 4th ability took too long time to start killing enemy.

 

If DE think that Ash will be too buffed, I think I can give suggestion on him.

 

like Equinox, she needed to press the 4th ability only twice to start execution. Ash can be reworked like that;

 

press the 4th ability once to start marking the enemy within his range-of-view (instead of marking one by one) then press again to start executing the ability

 

or;

 

make his 4th like Ember's 4th, only will be hit by meteor within the camera's angle-of-view instead.

 

just my two cent. as a player who love to play Ash, I hope that he got reworked sooner. I felt useless when I cannot beat my friend's total kill while he just use Inaros (yes I admit I am noob and slow hand player)