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Ash: His current problems and the solutions to fix them


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@Archwizard I have visited you post and in it, you mentioned Ash.

You have some ideas that caught my eye and I appreciate you understanding the concept of teleportation however, I don`t think Ash needs a rework, just a revisit.

The concept of all his abilities are solid it`s just the execution that's not up to scratch plus his 4th ability is the one ability ppl first think about when someone says Ash coz of how unique it is which also makes ppl talking about him controversial.

I would appreciate it if you to read this post of my revisited version of Ash, this post presents the issues he has and the solutions to fix them. Tell me what you think.

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On 2020-06-01 at 1:07 PM, (NSW)Spektr3 said:

Signed! Luv the concept of Ash, he's probably what got me into WF so whatever improvement he gets I'm up for it. I agree with most of your suggestions for improvements and synergies.

I mostly play solo so I don't really experience most of his issues. Probably what annoys me the most about BS is that painting targets with a controller is not as easy as with a mouse, I'd like it if I could paint small areas instead of single targets and also be able keep marking once the clones start doing their thing. Another thing is that I had to stop joining the clones in the killing altogether cuz sometimes after the animation you can end up stuck inside geometry and have to wait for an enemy to pass by and teleport out of it.

I appreciate the signature however you said you liked some of my ideas, can you tell me which ones you didn`t like? To experience and understand the problems he has I`d suggest you try taking Ash on low-level public missions. 

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When was the last time I responded to your concept Vexx? Luckily not only concept but also opinions change over time. Have fun reading.^^

Am 2.1.2020 um 16:18 schrieb (PS4)Vexx757:

Ash:

·       All abilities can be cast while on ziplines.

 

1st Ability: Shuriken

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·       If an enemy is killed in one hit it is considered as a stealth kill.

·       Holding the ability will make both shurikens target the enemy you`re aiming at dealing double slash damage and adds critical damage based on what crit damage mods you have equipped on your melee weapon, also headshots will do more damage.

·       The more health the enemy loses, the slower the enemy moves when bleeding out.

·       When the enemy stops bleeding, it will go back to its normal movement speed.

·       It has a 1 second combo window. The more you use the ability, the more damage it does, the less energy it takes.

·       The built-up damage multi from spamming it can affect the held version of shuriken.

1

This makes Ash more strategic by giving a choice of who he wants to kill and makes him better at killing single target enemies.

 

2nd Ability: Smoke Screen

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·       Increase the cast stun duration to 4 sec.

·       The smoke left behind will last for 10 seconds.

·       The smoke cloud has a 5m radius which can be increased by range mods.

·       Enemies that enter the smoke will have a 6 sec stun duration and are 40% more susceptible to damage. If allies are in the cloud they cannot be targeted by enemies.

·       If Ash stays in the cloud the duration won`t start until either he leaves the cloud or the cloud duration runs out.

·       Allies that are in the cloud are visually translucent showing as a indicator that they are unseen by enemies.

·       All stun durations cannot be increased by duration mods.

·       When Ash is invisible, the apparitions from bs are also invisible.

·       Remove muffled sound while invisible.

 

There are now new ways you can use this ability;

·       You can use it next to a dangerously high-levelled enemy to stun it and kill it with ease.

·       You can use it to block enemies in doorways. Since the smoke affect duration is 6 seconds and the smoke lasts 10 seconds, enemies will be stuck for a total of 12 seconds.

·       You can protect your allies from enemies` sight with smoke cloud.

·       If you mod for less duration and more range, it will turn it into a better cc ability.

4

These improvement makes this ability strategic and you have more than one way to use the ability.

 

3rd Ability: Teleport

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·       Holding the ability will show an indicator of where he can teleport to from the radical.

·       Teleporting to a wall will make ash hang to the wall for 3 seconds.

·       Not only it can teleport to anything with a health bar, it can also teleport to anything that can be scanned.

·       You can teleport through windows if there are allies, npcs, enemies, objects with a health bar or is scannable objects on the other side of it.

·       You are able to teleport to enemies that are in the air.

·       After teleporting in the air, performing melee attacks will keep him in the air.

·       Even if the enemy is under a stun, they can still be opened up for a finisher.

2

These tweaks Ash`s 3rd ability will improve his teleporting abilities and gives him the option from focus enemy targeting to teleporting anywhere with less limitations.

 

Before I get into bs here are the current problems with bs;

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·       The two stages of the killing process make bs slow, because of this, other players can take his kills before you get a chance to kill them which makes him not helpful in the team, not fun to play and in a fast-pasted game this is bad.

 

·       Marking enemies for some players is sickening because of the motion of moving the cursor onto enemies, even though it`s easier (but still a problem) to do this using a mouse, doing this on a controller is not as easy, an ability should be able to be easy to use no matter what you use.

 

·       Because enemies are highlighted by your chosen energy colour, it will make enemies more visible to other players to go and kill them which in their minds is a top priority.

 

·       If you want the full damage of bs, you have to mark the enemies three times which will slow you down or  makes you stationary (if you want to do it quickly) to mark enemies with three marks. In low-level missions, your energy will be refunded back to you if you over mark and in high levels you obviously going to want the full damage of it so there is absolutely no point in having to choose the amount of damage you want to dish out. With the old bs, you had the full damage regardless.

 

·       Bodies disappearing makes it to where you can`t bring him in a desecrating team with a nekros. While bodies disappearing makes sense on paper for him being a ninja and I like the idea, unfortunately, this just makes him a problem in that team.

 

·       The indicator shows how many marks instead of how many enemies affected by bs. Because of this, you have no idea how many enemies are going to be killed. If it showed how many enemies affected by bs, it will let the play know when to use bs again.

 

·       Using your 2nd ability to use less energy is not synergy. Synergy is meant to be a choice that makes a difference in missions however, this so-called synergy is a must to use it consistently which makes it a bad gimmick.

 

·       Using the 3rd ability to join the animation costs no energy but you need energy to be able to use it which makes no sense plus, in low-level missions, sometimes you`re not even going to get a chance use your 3rd ability because the apparitions have killed the enemies already. (depending on how many enemies you mark)

 

·       Apparitions (clones) appearance is not consistent. The visuals go from looking like you custom coloured Ash to a hologram version, to the original ash look with default colours. Also, this is a bug that the old bs had which means it has not been fixed.

 

·       When marking, you can`t mark enemies that are behind walls or objects which make you have to run around searching for enemies to kill and if you in a team, your marked enemies will be killed off by your teammates.

 

·       Even if Ash`s damage has increased to 2,000, (his damage now is still great) the damage is not as good compared to the old bs. The apparitions of the old bs was like Saryn`s 1st ability damage but slightly better, (and the terminator) the apparitions would not stop killing until the enemies were dead and even though attack speed mods can increase their killing speed, with the current bs, the apparitions only attack three times however the bleeding damage speed cannot.

 

·       Because of the way it works, it makes shuriken not favoured in use due to the amount of energy bs costs when modding and how much damage it does and how quick enemies will be killed when activated. This make some people use bs over shuriken.

 

·       You can`t pick and choose what enemies you want to kill; (which people claim you can do) on paper it makes sense however in practise the idea is not useful. For example, if you wanted to mark an energy eximus in-between two other enemies and you only have enough energy to mark one enemy, you are not able to.

 

Reasons;

· Enemies are running around to where you will either run out of energy or you simply can`t mark the eximus.

· You will have to stand there trying to mark that one enemy.

· You have a chance to get hit by a stray bullet or by an explosion whether you use your 2nd ability or not.

· If you’re playing in a team, someone WILL take the kill from you.

· Teleport can do it better and is faster at it. (this alone destroys the purpose of using it that way)

9

 

4th Ability: Blade Storm

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·       When activating the ability, it will start instantly.

·       Pressing the ability will bring you into the animation while holding the ability will send clones out to kill instead of you.

·       If you want to jump out of bs, press the ability again and the clones will continue to kill enemies.

·       Enemies that are red can be killed by players.

·       There is no limit to how many enemies he can kill within the 20m radius of the enemy he`s aiming at.

·       On deactivation or when blade storm ends whole in the animation, Ash teleports back to the position where he activated it.

·       An indicator is shown of the number of enemies that are going to be killed by bs.

·       Sliding before activating will increase the animation and clones` attack speed by 20%.

1

Why this logically makes blade storm better;

 

·       Ash`s bs is still slow when it comes to dps however, at lease because it`s an instant activation, he will at least get to the enemies 1st before any other frame`s damage ability does.

·       The current bs we have now made him absolutely useless in a team but with my changes, at least in a high-level mission he can kill more efficiently which in turn make the team less likely to get downed.

·       The choice of whether you want to be in the animations or not is much easier to pull off. The way it is now, if you use bs and you want to join the animation, but you have no energy you can’t join it even through it`s not meant to cost any energy to do so.

·       The indicator lets you know when you can use bs again.

·       Other people can take his kills while bs is still active which won`t matter coz of the amount of enemies he can kill.

 

Since Ash doesn`t have any synergy (or any good ones) here are some that will improve his performance;

Synergies

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Smoke Screen + Shuriken, Teleport & Blade Storm:

·       If you use any ability while you`re invisible, enemy bodies will disappear.

·       The energy cost will also be cut down by half.

·       If you teleport to an enemy while you are invisible you will stun enemies around you and increase the smoke cloud duration to 15 seconds.

 

Shuriken + Teleport:

·       Using the 1st ability on an enemy will show their health bar through walls longer, making you able to teleport to them as long as they are continually receiving bleeding ticks.

 

Shuriken + Blade Storm:

To increase the damage of bs you must use shuriken. As long as enemies continuously keep receiving bleeding ticks, your damage will increase over time with no limit.

·       Enemies need to be alive and bleeding from the 1st ability for bs to build up damage.

·       If no enemies are affected by slash, you will have five seconds before the damage is lost.

·       If the five seconds is up, the stored-up damage will decay overtime instead of disappearing completely.

·       There will be an indicator showing the amount of damage you are accumulating and the amount of time you have left.

·       If you get downed, the timer won`t start until you are revived.

3

There are some issues with Ash that need to be fixed

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·       Make Ash be able to teleport in and out of the same grates instead of just one direction.

·       Make opening enemies up to finishers consistent with 3rd ability.

·       Sometime ash is glitched and stabbing the air and he is unseen when using bs due to camera angle.

·       Make the “clones” look like him (like wukong`s 1st ability) instead of looking like a hologram.

·       When blade storm is done, Ash doesn’t appear at the same place he started at but instead is teleported in a different location.

1

 

Passive:

I did probably missunderstood you, but if his passive should be that he can cast all abilities on zipline it's a bad passive. Main problem is that ziplines are used very rarely. The only planet where I use ziplines is on jupiter when I misscalculated a jump.

And imo every ability should be castable on a zipline. Except the ones, who need more than just the arms. (-> rhino stomp.)

1st Ability Shuriken:

  • Holding the ability just to activate the single target function is not the best. If there is a target you want to be killed you want it now, not a second later where it was able to run away. Sure there is the point that it should be like a preperation before the assasination, but Warframe is to fast for this. In the time, where you prepare your shuriken I'm aleready on my way to the second target, while the first one lay dead on the floor.
  • If the charged shuriken is affected by the melee crit. mods we have the same situation like with other abilities (Garas and atlas first ability). Take an extra weak weapon with a high riven deposition, just to get the most out of shuriken. Or you give shuriken up and enjoy your melee weapon. But it would be different, if it would be affected by the mods of an exilus weapon.
  • The slowing effect is neat, but not useful. For what does Ash have his teleport ability?
  • The spam damage is also just neat. In the end, there will always be a better way to kill the enemies infront of you instead of two shurikens with an attack-speed of 3/s.
  • The synergy with teleport sounds useful at first. But shuriken don't come trough every wall. And in the most times are the important target in an open room.

Overall I don't really see a reason to use the ability. The only useful thing is the synergy with teleport. But even this one is just neat

2nd ability Smoke bomb:

Nothing to say against. Except that the cloud is maybe a bit small with 5m.

3rd ability teleport:

Why not just free teleportation? Why? Nova can teleport her complete team everywhere she wants with no restrictions. But I like the idea of the air attacks, if Ash teleports to a flying enemy.

4th ability Bladestorm:

That's is actually just his old BS, but with the option to not join it. That would turn Ash again into an press 4 to win frame. With max range (20m->56m), efficiency (100energy-> 25) and high strength (2000->4280) you can win every game, while doing nothing. Was this really that what you wanted? Or did I missunderstodd you?

Conlusion:

Overall your ideas are much better than from the most others I can find, but you have two main problems. The first ability stays to 99% useless (Only exception is, if there is an important enemy behind a thin wall and is also not glass.) and that the fourth ability make all other abilities useless, if you include the combo-multipler and arcanes.

Edited by ES-Flinter
Bananas. I need more apples.
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On 2020-06-03 at 5:46 PM, ES-Flinter said:
Spoiler

Passive:

I did probably missunderstood you, but if his passive should be that he can cast all abilities on zipline it's a bad passive. Main problem is that ziplines are used very rarely. The only planet where I use ziplines is on jupiter when I misscalculated a jump.

And imo every ability should be castable on a zipline. Except the ones, who need more than just the arms. (-> rhino stomp.)

1st Ability Shuriken:

  • Holding the ability just to activate the single target function is not the best. If there is a target you want to be killed you want it now, not a second later where it was able to run away. Sure there is the point that it should be like a preperation before the assasination, but Warframe is to fast for this. In the time, where you prepare your shuriken I'm aleready on my way to the second target, while the first one lay dead on the floor.
  • If the charged shuriken is affected by the melee crit. mods we have the same situation like with other abilities (Garas and atlas first ability). Take an extra weak weapon with a high riven deposition, just to get the most out of shuriken. Or you give shuriken up and enjoy your melee weapon. But it would be different, if it would be affected by the mods of an exilus weapon.
  • The slowing effect is neat, but not useful. For what does Ash have his teleport ability?
  • The spam damage is also just neat. In the end, there will always be a better way to kill the enemies infront of you instead of two shurikens with an attack-speed of 3/s.
  • The synergy with teleport sounds useful at first. But shuriken don't come trough every wall. And in the most times are the important target in an open room.

Overall I don't really see a reason to use the ability. The only useful thing is the synergy with teleport. But even this one is just neat

2nd ability Smoke bomb:

Nothing to say against. Except that the cloud is maybe a bit small with 5m.

3rd ability teleport:

Why not just free teleportation? Why? Nova can teleport her complete team everywhere she wants with no restrictions. But I like the idea of the air attacks, if Ash teleports to a flying enemy.

4th ability Bladestorm:

That's is actually just his old BS, but with the option to not join it. That would turn Ash again into an press 4 to win frame. With max range (20m->56m), efficiency (100energy-> 25) and high strength (2000->4280) you can win every game, while doing nothing. Was this really that what you wanted? Or did I missunderstodd you?

Conlusion:

Overall your ideas are much better than from the most others I can find, but you have two main problems. The first ability stays to 99% useless (Only exception is, if there is an important enemy behind a thin wall and is also not glass.) and that the fourth ability make all other abilities useless, if you include the combo-multipler and arcanes.

 

Q&A

I`m sure I told you this before... If it was a passive I would of written "passive". Again this is something that he should be able to do after all he is a ninja.

 

1st ability

  • The point of it is to use it in stealth gameplay, in public play you would just press the ability Ash lacks much abilities that benefit stealth play, this does just that and it`s rewarding for the people (like my self) that like to play stealth.
  • This is optional you can either spam it to build up damage or have high crits it`s not forced on you plus unlike Atlas, its easy to build up damage due to the fact of the cast speed animation.
  • The slow affect gives ash cc, think of it like nova`s 4th but a worse version and you have to spam it, with my idea Ash has cc in his 1 and 2 but the 2 max cc duration is 10 seconds while his first`s cc duration is based on his passive and if used on the same enemy again it can increase the duration. Yes it`s useless in low levels but in high levels it`s very useful and gives shuriken another use that doesn`t need the damned augment to be useful.
  • Again it`s optional, you can use his 1 or use a gun it`s not forced on you and it makes the ability better.
  • The point of the synergy is to reach an enemy that is hiding behind cover or a wall plus it gets you out of harms way and it`s optional. 

 

2nd ability

At the moment the cloud does nothing it`s just visuals so just to have a 5m cloud that stuns and makes enemies weaker to damage is a big improvement besides it can be increased by range mods and for the ways it can be used 5m is enough trust me.

 

3rd ability

It can teleport freely, you now have a choice to either teleport to enemies to kill them or teleport anywhere. 

 

4th ability

Even through it`s similar to the old bs it`s not the exact same, think of it as if DE were to revisit the old bs but decided to give it QOL instead of changing the mechanics of it, obviously their has to be limits to range and energy efficiency (by making damage turn red and decreasing it on ability screen) and I have disused how It could be interactive and how it would drain energy (by typing vexx-info) but no one replied.  

His 1 is used (compared to bs)  for stealth gameplay, it`s effective for single targets, it offers cc and it costs less energy, you not going to use bs just for one enemy.

As for bs like you said that`s if you use arcanes and I don`t see a way around that but if you have a solution based on my idea of bs to make it useful even with arcanes I`m willing to read it however you will only run into that problem if you use them and my ideas is to make Ash`s abilities better on their own without any assistance from arcanes or augments, they are just an add-ons if you want to use them.

 

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757
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Vexx-info:

IMPORTANT

One of the issues I have with Ash (amongst other things) is the inconsistency of his teleport not opening enemies up to finishers, it ruins stealth play coz if you teleport to an enemy and they are not opened up to finishers they will shoot at you making noise and alerting other enemies due to bad stealth mechanics plus the finisher button being separate from the attack button make things worse.

Instead of me making a post about Ash bugs and everyone adding to them post, I would like for you guys as a collective to send post about Ash`s bugs and issues he has so DE can fix them.

I have done this but as usual it hasn`t been addressed. If you can show video footage of his issues, this would be a big help to them and will let them know indefinitely that there is an issue.

 

Here is a list of bugs he has that I have noticed so far;

·       (most recent) While using blade storm, pickups are attached to Ash`s body and get in the way visually.

·       (most recent) When bs ends, the camera is fixed in one place and doesn’t move with Ash.

·       Make Ash consistently be able to teleport in and out of the same grates/fan instead of just one direction.

·       Make opening enemies up to finishers consistent with 3rd ability.

·       Sometime ash is glitched and stabbing the air and he is unseen when using bs due to camera angle.

·       Sometimes the visuals of the clones change from a hologram, original ash and ash prime look, make the “clones” look like whatever variant your using (like wukong`s 1st ability).

·       When blade storm is done, Ash doesn’t appear at the same place he started at but instead is teleports him in a different location.

 

If you guys know of any other bugs Ash has let them know, if we send posts after posts of Ash bugs, they can`t ignore them and they have time (due to the current situation that we are in) and if they do ignore these issues, this will make them look bad and we will have leverage to say they don`t listen to feedback.

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757
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On 2020-06-05 at 1:25 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Instead of me making a post about Ash bugs and everyone adding to them post, I would like for you guys as a collective to send post about Ash`s bugs and issues he has so DE can fix them.

IHere is a list of bugs he has that I have noticed so far;

·       (most recent) While using blade storm, pickups are attached to Ash`s body and get in the way visually.

·       (most recent) When bs ends, the camera is fixed in one place and doesn’t move with Ash.

·       Make Ash consistently be able to teleport in and out of the same grates/fan instead of just one direction.

·       Make opening enemies up to finishers consistent with 3rd ability.

·       Sometime ash is glitched and stabbing the air and he is unseen when using bs due to camera angle.

·       Sometimes the visuals of the clones change from a hologram, original ash and ash prime look, make the “clones” look like whatever variant your using (like wukong`s 1st ability).

·       When blade storm is done, Ash doesn’t appear at the same place he started at but instead is teleports him in a different location.

 

If you guys know of any other bugs Ash has let them know, if we send posts after posts of Ash bugs, they can`t ignore them and they have time (due to the current situation that we are in).

Regarding this post, here is the best place to post Ash bugs with video footage. If you guys flood it with Ash bugs, they will have no choice but to take heed and fix Ash`s issues.

 

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757
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On 2020-06-05 at 3:25 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Vexx-info:

IMPORTANT

One of the issues I have with Ash (amongst other things) is the inconsistency of his teleport not opening enemies up to finishers, it ruins stealth play coz if you teleport to an enemy and they are not opened up to finishers they will shoot at you making noise and alerting other enemies due to bad stealth mechanics plus the finisher button being separate from the attack button make things worse.

Instead of me making a post about Ash bugs and everyone adding to them post, I would like for you guys as a collective to send post about Ash`s bugs and issues he has so DE can fix them.

I have done this but as usual it hasn`t been addressed. If you can show video footage of his issues, this would be a big help to them and will let them know indefinitely that there is an issue.

 

Here is a list of bugs he has that I have noticed so far;

·       (most recent) While using blade storm, pickups are attached to Ash`s body and get in the way visually.

·       (most recent) When bs ends, the camera is fixed in one place and doesn’t move with Ash.

·       Make Ash consistently be able to teleport in and out of the same grates/fan instead of just one direction.

·       Make opening enemies up to finishers consistent with 3rd ability.

·       Sometime ash is glitched and stabbing the air and he is unseen when using bs due to camera angle.

·       Sometimes the visuals of the clones change from a hologram, original ash and ash prime look, make the “clones” look like whatever variant your using (like wukong`s 1st ability).

·       When blade storm is done, Ash doesn’t appear at the same place he started at but instead is teleports him in a different location.

 

If you guys know of any other bugs Ash has let them know, if we send posts after posts of Ash bugs, they can`t ignore them and they have time (due to the current situation that we are in) and if they do ignore these issues, this will make them look bad and we will have leverage to say they don`t listen to feedback.

Since update I have the camera issues too after using my BS 😕 sometimes a quick down state or switching to operator or die completely solves the issues 😕

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20 hours ago, Kageryuzen said:

Since update I have the camera issues too after using my BS 😕 sometimes a quick down state or switching to operator or die completely solves the issues 😕

It`s bad enough that bs is mechanically bad this just makes using it even worse, this something that should not happen and needs to be fix. Please report this to DE, here is one place you can report it.

 

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What I would like to see with bladestorm is when I chose a target, bladestorm animation goes into killing spree and everything within the set range determined by range mods. Plane and simple. Just like the original.

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Hi, for me I would suggest BS to be kind of similar to mesa 4th.
Cast is instantaneous and only cost energy while there is enemy like ember's 4th 
Just a small suggestion. I am not familiar enough with Ash

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On 2020-01-02 at 11:55 AM, peterc3 said:

Basically a return to old BS. No.

IMHO old BS was significantly better than the current, which as OP stated - is far too slow to be of any use, especially in a team. I understand some wanted to move away from the old BS because it took too long in a crowded area or they had no way to cancel it, or it was disorienting for them. Clones was a good in-theme way to solve this, but the implementation was not good.

I think that if BS functioned like the old bladestorm without the clunky marking system, but simply launched clones on press and allowed the player to join in with the clones on hold it would provide the best of both worlds, allowing something similar to old blade-storm as an opt-in for those who wanted it on hold, while performing pretty much the same without the disorientation on press.

As BS is right now it's slow, clunky, and honestly faster, easier, and more effective to just shoot the enemies with whatever gun is equipped. The marking system is just too detrimental.

I'm not so keen to see changes to other abilities, but bladestorm absolutely needs adjustment to make ash relevant again, as it is now and has been for the past several years, I only use him for a long duration stealth frame, something a few others can easily replace him for.

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I'm pretty sure that Ash has become one of the least used frames after his rework. I don't see many, if any, players using him in both regular missions and sorties. However i don't think DE will have a look at him ,any time soon, while they have their hands full with a myriad other game issues. Even if they do rework him there is no guarantee that they'll get it right and not make things worse.

Edited by Yperkeimenos
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Vexx info:

VERY IMPORTANT

By reviewing my post again, I feel like I should add some QOL improvements and to explain certain things that are not so obvious. This is important because I have put up a petition and the qols I add ppl might not like them so please tell me what you guys think before I edit this post especially the people that signed my petition.

QOL

1st ability:

·       The held version will have increased flight speed.

·       If you hit the same enemy that was affected before, it will go back to the same slow speed and will keep getting slower until it`s lifeless.

·       The held version works like the way Nazha`s 2nd ability does. Quick cast, straight path and more damage.

·       The held version can pause the 1 sec combo duration drain indicator so that you have time to get the full damage out of it but the decreased energy won`t carry over to it.

 

2nd ability:

·       The 4sec stun also affects osprays by them visually float down to the ground before recovering.

·       The synergy with his 3 will stun enemies for 1 second with a 7m radius which can`t be affected by duration mods. Also, the enemy you teleport to will be affected by the susceptible smoke.

 

3rd ability:

·       When teleporting to enemies with the held version, enemies won`t detect you when in close proximity and it won`t open enemy to finishers.

·       If you can see allies through walls, Ash can teleport to them.

·       The cast speed of the held version is half a second.

 

4th ability:

·       While his 2nd ability is active enemies won`t be able to detect Ash or enemies killed when in close proximity.

·       You sentinel will not only be invulnerable but will also visually disappear while in the animation, this also including pickups from vacuum.

 

I have also realised some ideas that is unnecessary or that makes Ash a bit op and I need you guys input on these suggestions to make Ash balanced.

 

Here are some things that I’m considering to change:

3rd ability

·       The range when holding is at full range instead of half.

·       Ash will only hang on the wall for 10 seconds if you choose to hang on the wall after teleporting to it instead of it happening automatically.

 

4th ability:

·       I`m removing the ability to increase damage by combo multi with melee weapons. Reason being is that the way the 4th works (quick activation, no limit on enemy kills) and the 1st and 4th synergy is makes it kind of op and unnecessary to have two ways to increase damage.

·       Ash will no longer be invulnerable when in the animation but instead have a 90% damage reduction. It makes sense due to the fact that he is moving fast by teleporting and there is a small chance that he can take damage.

 

Smoke Screen + Shuriken, Teleport & Blade Storm synergy:

·       2nd ability will not cut other abilities` energy in half, it will be the same energy cost.

 

Even though I don`t care about his 4th being interactive (not all warfame need to be interactive) is there a way based on my idea of bs to make it interactive? (my 1st and 4th synergy make it interactive damage wise passively)

Here is an optional idea of bs being interactive;

Spoiler

Interactive blade storm animation

If you don`t want to be in the animation, it will act as normal however if you decide to be involved in the animation, you have a chance to gain bonus duration of slash ticks and 1% animation speed increase in the next use however, you have to be interactive within the animation.

 

While in the animation;

·       You have to press the melee button in sink when his stabs enemies in the animation.

·       When doing so, there is an indicator showing the buffs and successful hits which will be converted into duration of slash ticks and animation speed increase.

·       The more successful hits you get the more animation speed you can get in the next use e.g. 10 successful hits = 10% animation speed.

·       The maximum slash duration bonus you can receive is 7 seconds.

·       If you jump out of bs you will lose the bonuses.

·       The bonuses slash tick duration will also include all weapon types. (even weapons that don’t have slash)

·       If you don`t interact with at least five animation cut-scenes (depending on how many enemies affected) and get three successful hits, you will only deal half of bs damage. (2000 damage + no interaction = 1000 damage.

Depending on your feedback will determine whether I will add these changes to this post or not.

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757
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To me, the problem with Ash is similar to the issue that can be seen on a bunch of other old Warframes too:

ABILITY OVERLAP

Smoke Screen is (generally) fine in that regard. It provides stealth, which is survivability.

The main problem are the other 3 abilities:

Shuriken - Used to kill weak (/ debuff tough enemies with augment), one or two at a time (what it offers depends on enemy levels), with moderate speed.

Teleport - Used for mobility / killing one tough enemy at a time, with slow speed.

Bladestorm - Used to kill one or more tough-ish enemies at a time, with moderate/high-ish speed.

 

I guess you can see the issue right?

Imo, they need to have their intentions worked out. As an example how it can be reworked:

Shuriken - Meant to assassinate more specifc and tougher targets. Keep the damage and DoT, but make it open affected enemies to finishers. Does not break stealth-modifiers if the enemy is killed by Shuriken or if finishing the enemy while it's bleeding. Augment can make the targets have their armor/shields stripped and increase their finisher-damage taken.

Teleport - Make it focus on mobility. Make it a free-aim teleport (more akin to Nova's Wormhole or more similar to how it works in PvP), maybe with a slight meleespeed buff after using it, so it's good to utilize in combination with Shuriken's finisher-opener.

Bladestorm - Make it focus on killing multiple moderate/weak enemies quickly.

Edited by Azamagon
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IMPORTANT WARNING

I have noticed I haven`t got a respond on my message about some tweaks to my ideas (two massages up), just to mention if I get no feedback about it, i`ll assume that you all like it and I will added it to my post despise my petition.

 

Also her are links to the Support Desk to report any issues Ash currently has, and here is a reminder of some of his issues.

 

·       (most recent) While using blade storm, pickups are attached to Ash`s body and get in the way visually.

·       (most recent) When bs ends, the camera is fixed in one place and doesn’t move with Ash.

·       Make Ash consistently be able to teleport in and out of the same grates/fan instead of just one direction.

·       Make opening enemies up to finishers consistent with 3rd ability.

·       Sometime ash is glitched and stabbing the air and he is unseen when using bs due to camera angle.

·       Sometimes the visuals of the clones change from a hologram, original ash and ash prime look, make the “clones” look like whatever variant your using (like wukong`s 1st ability).

·       When blade storm is done, Ash doesn’t appear at the same place he started at but instead is teleports him in a different location.

Links

https://digitalextremes.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/categories/202940408-General-Game-Support-

https://digitalextremes.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/categories/202940448-Technical-Support

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On 2020-06-10 at 2:41 PM, kreep2.0 said:

What I would like to see with bladestorm is when I chose a target, bladestorm animation goes into killing spree and everything within the set range determined by range mods. Plane and simple. Just like the original.

I`m confused, did you even read my post? if not, go back and read it and tell me what you think.

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Honestly, yes shuriken is a relic of the past at this point and could use some improvements, but it IS fine as it is really.. so is  teleport.

 

the two things that need a change are smoke screen, casting an actual smoke cloud that lingers, blinding enemys and apply a blast proc for accuracy loss. increase the duration slightly.

and for bladestorm the only problem is that you really have to target EVERY single enemy by itself which really hurts your head after a while.

 

 the most simple solution I see here is to just give it a Mesa peacemaker like field of vision, basically focusing on every enemy you see on your screen instead of directly on your cursor.. this would make it so you dont have to look directly at every single enemy individually and just have them on your screen enough to mark them. this would remove unnecessary mouse movement, would still slow it down enough, but make it fast enough to keep up with the current meta.

Edited by SmokinDice
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On 2020-01-02 at 5:18 PM, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Marking enemies for some players is sickening because of the motion of moving the cursor onto enemies, even though it`s easier (but still a problem) to do this using a mouse, doing this on a controller is not as easy, an ability should be able to be easy to use no matter what you use.


citizen kane applause GIF


So much this.

Altogether well-written, OP. I barely see any players using Ash in any mission. The 4th ability is so slow and clunky to use and sickening! I can't really use Ash because of the exact reason. Usability sucks too; the actual effect area is pretty small. Meanwhile, there are far more powerful warframes with far more convenient 4th abilities.

Ash was overnerfed and needs (again) a rework.

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18 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

I`m confused, did you even read my post? if not, go back and read it and tell me what you think.

I've read your post. It's fine. I just commented on what I would like. Have you even played the original bladestorm?

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@Ash.Shadow

Quot:

As for your ideas for revising Ash. Quite good ideas, but for the first ability it would be convenient to throw several shurikens instead of two, and as for BS, it would be more convenient if the ability was like Inferno Ember's ability.

Idm if the ability to throw more shuriken was added to his revisit but  i`m just focusing on quality more so than quantity. As for bs, the activating part yes and if it ignored los.

Would these ideas make you play Ash more? 

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757
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4 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

@Ash.Shadow

Quot:

As for your ideas for revising Ash. Quite good ideas, but for the first ability it would be convenient to throw several shurikens instead of two, and as for BS, it would be more convenient if the ability was like Inferno Ember's ability.

Idm if the ability to throw more shuriken was added to his revisit but  i`m just focusing on quality more so than quantity. As for bs, the activating part yes and if it ignored los.

Would these ideas make you play Ash more? 

Of course.

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Vexx-info:

One thing I see people say is that they don`t want Blade Storm to be instant activation which I don`t know why since Saryn, Mesa, Ember, Banshee and most other frames in the game`s abilities is an instant cast. Imo I`d rather have the damage have a slight nerf in exchange for instant activation and easy use. (melee cannot increase damage)

Let’s just say that the melee combo multi was removed and my idea of bs is in development:

 

·       What alternative can you think of for accumulating damage?

·       How would bs consume energy?

·       How can you make bs interactive while in the animation?

·       While in animation would you rather have complete invulnerability or 90% damage reduction?

·       Is there a way to make using bs fell rewarding?

 

Let me know you suggestions for this.

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