Archmelee is currently dead, and I don't like that

[(NSW)Hermy]

If Empyrean is not build for Archwings and its Weapons beeing a viable option they should not be part of Empyrean at all.

It was a chance to revive Archwings and give them some content but what it did until now is make Archwings even less fun and worst even in every mission where they where fun before.

Iloved my Itzal with Fluctus and Knux. Now if i want to leave my railjack and maybe survive until i get to a crewship ship i am forced to use Amesha.

If i want to hit anything and maybe kill something it in the very first missions only cyngas has any chance to do so...

And there is no usable Melee weapon anymore. Not even in classic Archwing missions.

[CopperBezel]

Railjack's effect on archwing has been quite bizarre. DE cares as much as the the community does about existing archwing content, which is to say not at all, but they've opted to selectively nerf and buff features of archwing to fit it into its spot in Railjack mission context without competing with the railjack, and we still have piles of RJ hosts with their pretty ships they've grinded out all their RNG parts for, who are left flying them alone and complaining that nobody who joins wants to stick around and put out their fires and shoot their guns for them, because all of those people would rather be using archwing. 

It's kinda like the best thing about Railjack is the archwing 2.0 and DE haven't noticed but don't tell anyone

Edited January 27, 2020 by CopperBezel

[Teridax68]

I agree with the OP, Arch-melee should have at least some means of hitting targets without having to occupy approximately the same space as them in an environment designed to be vast and conducive to constant fast travel. Part of the problem, as many have mentioned, is that currently Railjack enemies move so fast that it's difficult to hit them at all even with guns, let alone Arch-melee (why does a Tenno in Archwing have to constantly blink just to keep up with a standard fighter, again?). Slowing down those enemies and allowing us to actually hit stuff with our melee would go a long way towards making Arch-Melee at least somewhat usable, though it would also likely need to deal significantly more damage to compete with Arch-guns (which themselves are now largely irrelevant compared to decent Railjack weaponry).

[Aadi880]

On 2020-01-12 at 5:35 PM, OmegaVoid said:

If so, then probably the Veritux still has its lock-on mechanic due to the protests of Titania-lovers.

Yes, the veritrux still has its lock on mechanic. So does the Prisma Veritrux, arguably making it the best archmelee in the game right now.

[DoomFruit]

3 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

(why does a Tenno in Archwing have to constantly blink just to keep up with a standard fighter, again?).

That, at least, sort of makes sense. They have engines which are as big as your entire body.

[Teridax68]

2 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

That, at least, sort of makes sense. They have engines which are as big as your entire body.

Okay, but the Tenno are notoriously and supernaturally fast, and Archwings are bespoke marvels of Orokin technology designed specifically to carry that blistering speed to space combat. If one wants to take the realism angle (which is never a sensible approach in Warframe), we should be able to run circles around crude Grineer mass-produced fighters. In gameplay terms, it's also one of the core pillars of this game for us players to have our characters be the fastest thing around, much like how Doom guy is significantly faster than any demon in his own franchise. We're here to, in theory at least, use our superior speed to outmaneuver enemies, so having the most generic fighter unit outrun a boosting Hyperion Thrust Itzal breaks the fantasy completely. In more pragmatic gameplay terms, I think it also removes one more valid gameplay approach, since it's difficult to pull off particularly cool maneuvers against enemies who can dodge and evade us effortlessly, and the comparative slowness of our Archwings and Arch-guns just means the only truly valid approach to deal with fighters is to go into our Railjack and shoot them from there.

[DoomFruit]

8 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Okay, but the Tenno are notoriously and supernaturally fast, and Archwings are bespoke marvels of Orokin technology designed specifically to carry that blistering speed to space combat. If one wants to take the realism angle (which is never a sensible approach in Warframe), we should be able to run circles around crude Grineer mass-produced fighters. In gameplay terms, it's also one of the core pillars of this game for us players to have our characters be the fastest thing around, much like how Doom guy is significantly faster than any demon in his own franchise. We're here to, in theory at least, use our superior speed to outmaneuver enemies, so having the most generic fighter unit outrun a boosting Hyperion Thrust Itzal breaks the fantasy completely. In more pragmatic gameplay terms, I think it also removes one more valid gameplay approach, since it's difficult to pull off particularly cool maneuvers against enemies who can dodge and evade us effortlessly, and the comparative slowness of our Archwings and Arch-guns just means the only truly valid approach to deal with fighters is to go into our Railjack and shoot them from there.

Oh, I don't like the situation. It's just that enemies being faster than us is about the only thing here which is even partially plausible because of said enormous engines. The grineer are the single tankiest things in the entire solar system (tankier than the tankiest of elite lost technology supersoldiers). About the only good point is that we are at least vastly more agile - instant direction changes and being able to fly at full burn in any direction while facing another.

And I don't like being able to outrun my own Phaedra bullets either (though this does require blink spam).

[(PSN)TheLastPillar]

I have to agree with the original poster here; removing tracking on arch melee has made all arch melee weapons a complete joke. When railjack came around I suddenly got motivated to invest in archwings again and tossed potatoes/forma in most my guns and all my archwings, but not a single thing went into melee, because it would've been a complete waste. The fact that they don't even track in regular archwing missions is ridiculous. All arch melee is basically MR fodder now, but how are newer players going to level their arch melee weapons if they can't hit anything?

[Aadi880]

1 minute ago, (PS4)TheLastPillar said:

I have to agree with the original poster here; removing tracking on arch melee has made all arch melee weapons a complete joke. When railjack came around I suddenly got motivated to invest in archwings again and tossed potatoes/forma in most my guns and all my archwings, but not a single thing went into melee, because it would've been a complete waste. The fact that they don't even track in regular archwing missions is ridiculous. All arch melee is basically MR fodder now, but how are newer players going to level their arch melee weapons if they can't hit anything?

The veritrux and Prisma veritrux still locks on to enemies. Dunno why it did not bug out for those two and bugged out for the rest. Given how long DE is taking to fix this bug, they are going to wait and do something when they rework archwings as a whole. Till then, we gotta enjoy this boogie fever (!)

[(NSW)Hermy]

Nice to know 🙂

ThenI will just use my old Veritux again until they fix the rest xP

I hope they also make other Archwings than Amesha viable for Empyrean...

And reenable experimental flight

Edited January 29, 2020 by (NSW)Hermy

[(PSN)SrebX]

I just don't see a point to this thread, what are you trying to do here?

Archwing has an insane amount of problems, big and small, and DE has acknowledged that and announced they're working on it, Why the hell would you open a thread just one of these problems? what are you trying to achieve? 

[DoomFruit]

26 minutes ago, (PS4)SrebX said:

I just don't see a point to this thread, what are you trying to do here?

Archwing has an insane amount of problems, big and small, and DE has acknowledged that and announced they're working on it, Why the hell would you open a thread just one of these problems? what are you trying to achieve? 

Because DE actively went and broke something which worked perfectly well before, and was in fact almost necessary for these weapons to actually work in the first place.

I take it that you've never played much archwing, otherwise you'd know exactly how bad a change this (removing autotracking on melee) is.

[(PSN)SrebX]

Just now, DoomFruit said:

Because DE actively went and broke something which worked perfectly well before, and was in fact almost necessary for these weapons to actually work in the first place.

I take it that you've never played much archwing, otherwise you'd know exactly how bad a change this (removing autotracking on melee) is.

I have played and I do know. Do you know who also knows? DE. Do you know how I know that DE know? Because they said that, and they said that a lot of changes would come to Archwing

Archwing in it's entirety is a freakin' Mess. Archmelee is just 1 of insane amounts of problems that Archwing as a whole has, and they're just gonna revamp it completely according to their announcements, so we'll just have to wait and see the changes and complain/accept them once they come

This is a very in-between phase of the game right now and a lot of things are bound to change because Railjack unveiled a S#&$ton of problems that DE have postponed which they now have to deal with, and said they intend to deal with, so there currently is no point in complaining because that's going to change. We're bound to see if for better or worse, and we'll voice our opinions afterwards, but currently there's isn't much point to this

[DoomFruit]

2 hours ago, (PS4)SrebX said:

I have played and I do know. Do you know who also knows? DE. Do you know how I know that DE know? Because they said that, and they said that a lot of changes would come to Archwing

Archwing in it's entirety is a freakin' Mess. Archmelee is just 1 of insane amounts of problems that Archwing as a whole has, and they're just gonna revamp it completely according to their announcements, so we'll just have to wait and see the changes and complain/accept them once they come

This is a very in-between phase of the game right now and a lot of things are bound to change because Railjack unveiled a S#&$ton of problems that DE have postponed which they now have to deal with, and said they intend to deal with, so there currently is no point in complaining because that's going to change. We're bound to see if for better or worse, and we'll voice our opinions afterwards, but currently there's isn't much point to this

In that case, what's the point in making any threads about any aspect of the game? You could say a lot of those same things about other parts which don't work, but it doesn't make the points any less valid.

Neither does it excuse completely breaking a full half of the arsenal for an entire game mode and saying absolutely nothing about it, anywhere. You'll very often find people throwing out the "it's beta" excuse at any defective part of this game, but in that case isn't it the purpose of this beta to find problems? Assuming that they even do look on us as the beta testers, and that they actually do read and take feedback into account (something which I do not believe), how are they supposed to know about problems if they're not told?

They certainly don't do much playtesting themselves, as shown by the consistent introduction of horrific grind which is later pared back slightly (plains, railjack), or that sanctuary onslaught cannot be completed solo without one of a very few specific meta builds, or that melee stances slapping the controls out of your hands are a bad thing in actual combat, or that their UI changes which actively get in the player's way are a stupid idea especially when you're doing the same thing for the thousandth time, or any other number of issues.

[(PSN)SrebX]

2 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

In that case, what's the point in making any threads about any aspect of the game? You could say a lot of those same things about other parts which don't work, but it doesn't make the points any less valid.

See, no you can't do that.

You can't do that because these other aspects of the game weren't being hyped for 2 years now, they haven't been discussed about at the most recent streams, and the devs haven't said they're right now in the workings of revamping the whole system just last week- That's only true about Railjack, Archwing and Liches

Look man, I 100% agree with you. Archmelee is completely broken, Archwings are useless and poorly balanced, space status is just incompetence indicator and Archguns just suck
But the fact is that they're about to change. They might change for the worse or for the better, we still don't know yet, but they are about to change, so there's not much we can do at this point except hope that this time it'll go well
And if it won't, we'll have to cry to the devs... Again...

Edited January 29, 2020 by (PS4)SrebX

[Endorphinz]

I'm in here to drop a "agree" with OP.

I use centaur, and archwing melee has never felt more useless.

[DoomFruit]

15 hours ago, (PS4)SrebX said:

But the fact is that they're about to change. They might change for the worse or for the better, we still don't know yet, but they are about to change, so there's not much we can do at this point except hope that this time it'll go well

And if it is going to change, doesn't it make sense to point out ways in which it could improve? Surely that's much better than just sitting there and taking whatever happens.