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Archwing "Meta"


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Prologue - Before we even get to the discussion about Amesha, there are fundamental problems with archwing as a whole; And now that the previous main use for archwing was given to all of them (open world mobility), Railjack provides an opportunity and the challenge that highlights the rest of them.

Energy and Health Management

Energy and health management in archwing is horrendous compared to warframes, so obviously the archwing that specializes in those areas would rise to the "most used" spot. We lack...

  • Operator
    • Health - There is no operator to cast Protective Dash, Magus Elevate, Magus Repair, Magus Nourish, etc... And you can't use Void Mode to go intangible while you revive a teammate, meaning you just have to take the beating for the entire time.
    • Energy - You can't utilize Energizing Dash unless you cast it on foot before you go into archwing, meaning it's not useful at all in prolonged flight or actual AW missions. And you can't really utilize Kinetic Diversion safely, because you can't heal with your operator or really anything else except pads and frame arcanes. 
  • Companions
    • Health - There is no companion with Medi-Ray, Hunter Recovery, Dig, Guardian, Molecular Conversion, etc... to recover your health and shields. And nothing exist to draw aggro or cause crowd control/status procs to keep the heat off yourself.
    • Energy - The vacuum radius to still really bad in archwing, and has the drawbacks of a non-precept vacuum (i.e. you lose stuff that were previously mid-vacuum if you Blink, stuff takes forever to be picked up if you're moving, etc...). And fighters don't drop energy to vacuum, I believe I've only seen Outriders drop energy. And after that there are no precepts like Energy Generator, Dig, etc... to get energy back.
  • Weapons
    • Health - Nothing in the archwing arsenal heals you like the Hema, Hirudo, Life Strike, Healing Return, Winds of Purity, Syndicate procs, Sancti Magistar, etc...
    • Energy - And there are no syndicate procs, Zaw Arcanes, even the Broken Scepter, etc... to give you energy back.

So you all have forced us to us the Amesha from the lack of content archwing has (pads are not a solution). And it was solidified with the devaluing of Itzal, and the fact that the highest level AW enemies in the base game are no longer level 25 corpus.

Not "Too Good", Just no Competition

Even before the the change to Itzal and archwing controls overall, Odonata and Elytron were less than worthless (to put into perspective, they weren't even used before Railjack), and it was only exacerbated by the horrible energy economy in AW missions. And with the changes I mentioned before, Itzal is near worthless too, leaving only Amesha. 

  • Elytron
    • Bloomer - To start with this horribly designed archwing, his first ability is literally a significantly worse version of his 4. Having no merit at all, not even a reduced energy cost makes it considerable.
    • Core Vent - Spending 50 energy to maybe dodge projectiles that track you is a horrible waste of a hard to obtain resource in regular archwing missions, let alone Railjack ones. On land I can cast Gara's 2 for the same amount of energy and be infinitely more survivable.
    • Thumper - An ability that you have to cast 4 times to just deal decent damage to level 25 corpus, which equates to 300 energy that probably wont even touch let alone scratch an Enemy in the Veil.
    • Warhead - The equivalent of Resonating Quake Banshee in space, but you have to hit one of the fastest enemies in the game with a slow AF projectile, aaaaand you have no energy after ~3 cast.
  • Odonata
    • Energy Shell - The only ability worth a damn on her, but it only protects half of you. And I feel the shield is bugged, in that doesn't always stop every projectile, or at the very least splash damage. The heat damage and crit are nice, but you'd barely have the energy to sustain this ability in Railjack, let alone the rest of her kit.
    • Disarray - Take Elytron's Core Vent and make it worse... that is Disarray. AND no ability stat (i.e. strength) boost it's effectiveness. 
    • Seeking Fire - An ability that doesn't even do damage to level 25 Corpus, and now imagine it in the Veil Proxima.
    • Repel - The range makes it worthless even if it did/does work on fighters. So not only will I have no energy to cast it without spamming pads, I'll be dead from anything outside of 140 meters.
  • Itzal
    • Arch Line - The once king for anything archwing (except boss missions), is now reduced to having an ability that is still just as bad on Itzal, as it is on Valkyr.
      • And universal Blink is great but nothing compared to Blink, or even what you advertised. You said "over twice the range of original Blink", but blink now goes ~500 meters, and on Itzal it went 400 meters (640 with mods). So if there wasn't a mistake, you all were untruthful, or you based the new Blink on the old unranked Blink instead of it at rank 3, which is just a different type of untruthfulness. 
    • Penumbra - The ability to hard stop is the main reason this ability was good, and that is no longer unique to it (ultimately a good thing), and invisibility isn't a good survivability skill in a mission with indiscriminate/homing attacks. It's why you don't see Ivara in pub Eidolon hunts. And after that mobility is everything. Prowl's mobility reduction is the main reason Ivara isn't that great, now imagine if you couldn't move in a mission with objectives ~15,000 meters away.
    • Cosmic Crush - Is a glorified vacuum that cost energy. In regular AW missions this could do damage, and is what allowed Itzal to have an energy economy... By killing hordes of enemies that drop energy. But now you don't kill hordes, and they don't drop energy. And with Railjack this should no longer make him special, we should have companions that give us 200+ meters of true vacuum.
    • Fighter Escort - The drone damage was worthless even against level 25 corpus, and the explosion is unpredictable and definitely not worth it in Railjack.

Amesha - And even after this I'm sure there would be those crazy people out there using other archwings beside Amesha. But when I'm in the Veil and I'm too slow to reactivate Amesha's 1, and I (in the literal sense) get "one shot" through 600 shield, 1800 health, and 200-800 armor; there is a problem only Amesha can solve (and more often only Amesha+Hildryn). And even if I have no energy and get another ~350 hit points from her 4, I still take one Elite Cutter missile and die.

And in regards to her 3 (the slow), that again is on you all. You made fighters fast, evasive, and tanky AF. While making all arch-guns projectile based, and introducing a new damage system with no (arsenal) explanation, and reducing arch-gun damage against fighters by 95%. How the hell was I supposed to know combined elements just add their damage with no status effect, and that my Imperator Vandal build (crit in general) was going to be garbage. No duh I needed the slow to whittle fighters down with what I didn't know was a crappy gun. And even now with a good gun and a good build, the problem remains the same because the fighters have a lot more ehp in the Veil.


I for one largely play this game for the power fantasy. When I first started you all seemed to not really nerf things, you just pitted us against harder and harder content, or you all buffed things up to the new power level. For harder content just look at the Railjack Gokstad Officer, she has 2x the armor and 3x the health of a Corrupted Heavy Gunner, and is immune to armor strip. And so even in the Earth Proxima I was so happy there was finally content worthy of what I thought was the best designed archwing. But now off-the-clock or not, I'm hearing things like nerfing Saryn, Cloud Walker, Amesha, hell even other archwing abilities, etc... And it's a massive let down in a PvE game. I didn't like, but I understood the nerf to the Catchmoon, so I'm not just anti-nerf. But you all damn well know that usage stats mean nothing when it comes to Amesha. There are only 4 options, 3 of the options aren't even usable, and enemies mid-Saturn and up do too much damage. Amesha's ability kit is not overtuned, and she is no more need of nerfs or changes than Nova is.

Plus I think you all already knew Amesha was going to be basically the only used archwing, even past the obvious reasons. Because when you choose a symbol to represent all frames or all sentinels, you choose a silhouette of Excalibur and Deth Cube respectively. So the graphics on the archwing exits in the Railjack should have Odonata on them, but instead they have Amesha.

Edited by KitMeHarder
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