Can we please have the Hema & Sibear grind back?

[SordidDreams]

I never thought I'd say this, but I miss the old Hema and Sibear kind of grind. You know, the kind where you just have to gather resources at a steady rate and you see your effort rewarded with tangible progress. This new kind of grind, where you're farming for multiple items with a 2% drop chance per mission with RNG stats on top of that? That doesn't feel good at all. You're putting in effort and getting zero progress in return. It doesn't even feel good when you finally hit jackpot, because success is determined on a mission-per-mission basis, so all those previous failed attempts contributed nothing to the eventual success, and you just end up bitter about the game wasting your time.

Can we please abort mission on this layered RNG experiment and go back to the old style of grind?

[Vespilan]

Maybe not so much the Hema grind... even with the smallest tier of clan that is kinda ridicolous.
But else I completely agree. Warframe's progression being dependant on pure work rather than RNG was one of the reasons it set itself apart from similar RPGs so well and I would definetly rather see the "old system" return.

Another big upside of the old system was that people were actually motivated to stay in missions longer. More enemies meant more loot and loot is what you came for. Nowdays, see Quellor /Penant, people jump into a mission, completely screw over their teammates and immediatly leave should RNG not give them what they desire, leaving the rest of the team weakened. 

[Melanholic7]

5 минут назад, Vespilan сказал:

Maybe not so much the Hema grind... even with the smallest tier of clan that is kinda ridicolous.
But else I completely agree. Warframe's progression being dependant on pure work rather than RNG was one of the reasons it set itself apart from similar RPGs so well and I would definetly rather see the "old system" return.

Another big upside of the old system was that people were actually motivated to stay in missions longer. More enemies meant more loot and loot is what you came for. Nowdays, see Quellor /Penant, people jump into a mission, completely screw over their teammates and immediatly leave should RNG not give them what they desire, leaving the rest of the team weakened. 

Just make every valuable random loot items as "hidden loot" type,which will reveal only after extraction. So u wont know do u have item u needed or no

 

[SordidDreams]

1 minute ago, Vespilan said:

Nowdays, see Quellor /Penant, people jump into a mission, completely screw over their teammates and immediatly leave should RNG not give them what they desire, leaving the rest of the team weakened.

Oh yeah, there's that as well. Though DE had figured out how to prevent that some time ago, just drop unidentified items. Pad out the commander's drop table with a 1K credit cache or something, so that he always drops something, but you only find out what it is after the mission ends. But DE forgetting already learned lessons and repeating old mistakes is a whole another can of worms. I could, for instance, mention the stamina bar, which they learned back in 2015 isn't fun and has no place in the game.

[Jiminez_Burial]

4 minutes ago, Melanholic7 said:

Just make every valuable random loot items as "hidden loot" type,which will reveal only after extraction. So u wont know do u have item u needed or no

 

That would only work if they added 'filler' rewards so that something drops every time.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Jiminez_Burial

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

57 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

 Hema

My small clan started that research the day it came out on console and we still haven't finished it <.<

Other than that though...I agree. I've always preferred dedication over RNG.

[Baterial]

1 hour ago, SordidDreams said:

I never thought I'd say this, but I miss the old Hema and Sibear kind of grind.

Can we please abort mission on this layered RNG experiment and go back to the old style of grind?

No. Now you are here with 2% drop chance on vidar reactor mk III as a mission reward and 0.01% to drop void hole from enemy. Now this is good grind

Edited January 3, 2020 by Baterial

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

12 minutes ago, Baterial said:

No. Now you are here with 2% drop chance on vidar reactor mk III as a mission reward and 0.01% to drop void hole from enemy. Now this is good grind

good how?

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

My small clan started that research the day it came out on console and we still haven't finished it <.<

Other than that though...I agree. I've always preferred dedication over RNG.

topk 3 people ln my clan less then a month

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

topk 3 people ln my clan less then a month

My clan only has 3 people, but I've funded 95%+ of the research myself.

For the Hema, I honestly just said "screw it" after a while. It's not game changing and I'm nearly MR 28 without it. I'm not going out of my way to farm for it specifically any more since it's not worth the headache.

[Vespilan]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb SordidDreams:

Oh yeah, there's that as well. Though DE had figured out how to prevent that some time ago, just drop unidentified items. Pad out the commander's drop table with a 1K credit cache or something, so that he always drops something, but you only find out what it is after the mission ends.

I- I made a blog post about this, why I #*!%ing hate RNG. Because this is what it does, it appeals to - like - the EA fantasy
Seriously tho, I said that just that in my railjack feedback post. Maybe you wanna check it out

 

[Baterial]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Spider_Enigma said:

good how?

irony

[SordidDreams]

9 hours ago, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

My clan only has 3 people, but I've funded 95%+ of the research myself.

Well that just comes down to the choice of clanmates, doesn't it. The Hema research is supposed to be a team effort, if the other people on the team aren't contributing, of course it's going to feel excessive. That's not really DE's fault.

[Aldain]

Sordid, I mean no offense by what I'm about to say but...

ARE YOU ABSOLUTELY INSANE!?

-ahem-

I think it would just be better to actually balance out the economy in Empyrean where the loot actually drops at a resonable enough rate to make up for the random nature,along with making sure that the dropped parts are never worse than the same tier research version.

Rather than asking for an old but slightly less worse slog, we need to ask for DE to admit they screwed up, pull themselves up by their bootstraps and actually fix something for once.

[MirageKnight]

4 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

That's not really DE's fault.

It is DE's fault for making the resource grind so massive that no-one that really values their time is going to want to touch it.

Edited January 4, 2020 by MirageKnight

[Test-995]

15 hours ago, Melanholic7 said:

Just make every valuable random loot items as "hidden loot" type,which will reveal only after extraction. So u wont know do u have item u needed or no

"Make it harder and let em suffer instead of giving players positive incentive"

No.

[Melanholic7]

7 часов назад, Test-995 сказал:

"Make it harder and let em suffer instead of giving players positive incentive"

No.

"make players play the game-mission" more like this. 

[-Kittens-]

22 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

I never thought I'd say this, but I miss the old Hema and Sibear kind of grind. You know, the kind where you just have to gather resources at a steady rate and you see your effort rewarded with tangible progress. This new kind of grind, where you're farming for multiple items with a 2% drop chance per mission with RNG stats on top of that? That doesn't feel good at all. You're putting in effort and getting zero progress in return. It doesn't even feel good when you finally hit jackpot, because success is determined on a mission-per-mission basis, so all those previous failed attempts contributed nothing to the eventual success, and you just end up bitter about the game wasting your time.

Can we please abort mission on this layered RNG experiment and go back to the old style of grind?

How about no to any stick and carrot bullS#&amp;&#036;.

[DrakeWurrum]

Eeeeeeh.... no thanks to either grind. They're too tedious to be fun.

[Nezha_Rose]

Already got the weapons I needed and mkIII stuff I needed. No longer have to worry about personal Railjack conundrums like:

People joining my premade squad to tell me what to do on my ship, people complaining about "hurr wheres zetku bulkheadtu" or my ship looks better than yours.

If youre like that last guy, first, scr*w you my all pink ship is fantastic, second you have poor taste.

Railjack can be fun yes, but theres so much rng involved I dont feel like Im progressing much. Its like the game itself is constantly pushing you back at all times.  

If I join a mission with a capt and or setient ship and people leave cuz they didnt get what they want, so be it, Im good enough to solo a boring 30 min space ext now. But lately the toxicity Ive been getting myself into as a pilot had made me dislike railjack more and more. And Im sorry but I cant take it no more. And no, my ship WILL STAY PINK.

 

Oh and lets not talk about the titanium. 

 

* Goes on full boomer mode* Also stop painting your ships solid black and *instert color here* Camouflage doesnt work inside your ship. SWITCH TO SOMETHING LIKE PINK 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Nezha_Rose

[SordidDreams]

18 hours ago, Aldain said:

Rather than asking for an old but slightly less worse slog, we need to ask for DE to admit they screwed up, pull themselves up by their bootstraps and actually fix something for once.

The community has been doing that for years, and for years DE has been promising to do that. Remember when PoE came out and it was grindy as f*ck? And DE said they learned from their mistakes and that future content wouldn't be as grindy? And yet here we are. Remember how we all b*tched and moaned that zaws had to be leveled twice to get the MR out of them? Yeah... We didn't know how good we had it back then.

It's become clear to me that DE doesn't want to make the game anything other than a slog. The reason is obvious, if it wasn't a slog, you'd have no reason to pay money to skip it by buying boosters or items directly. WF uses the pay-to-skip model, and nobody would pay to skip fun. So asking for the slog to be turned into fun is pointless and will never happen, WF's business model dictates that there has to be a slog. But I view the Hema slog as bearable, whereas the Railjack slog is making me not want to play the game at all, and I'm sure driving players away is not what DE want.

18 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

It is DE's fault for making the resource grind so massive that no-one that really values their time is going to want to touch it.

There's a flip side to that, which is that requiring a lot of your valuable time to acquire makes the item in question feel special. You know, it's all about that sense of pride and accomplishment.

8 hours ago, -Kittens- said:

How about no to any stick and carrot bullS#&amp;&#036;.

Every game has carrots and sticks, that's what distinguishes a game from a toy. Do you think anyone would play WF for the gameplay alone if there were no rewards to acquire? Do you think anyone would play Tetris or Pac-Man if they didn't record a high score for you to try to beat? Carrots and sticks have been in games for as long as games have existed, and for good reason.

1 hour ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Eeeeeeh.... no thanks to either grind. They're too tedious to be fun.

That's the point of them, to motivate you to buy boosters. Welcome to free-to-play.

Edited January 4, 2020 by SordidDreams

[DrakeWurrum]

3 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

That's the point of them, to motivate you to buy boosters. Welcome to free-to-play.

I'm plenty familiar with grind and the pay-to-skip methodology employed by DE. The Hema and the Sibear stand out above every other grind in the game, the same way that a 2% drop on a "required" Avionic or Mod stands out from other grinds.

[SordidDreams]

Just now, DrakeWurrum said:

I'm plenty familiar with grind and the pay-to-skip methodology employed by DE. The Hema and the Sibear stand out above every other grind in the game, the same way that a 2% drop on a "required" Avionic or Mod stands out from other grinds.

There's one very important difference: The Hema and the Sibear are crap weapons that almost nobody uses, so it's not a big deal if you don't grind them out. They're just for bragging rights. You f*cking need those avionics and ship parts.

[DrakeWurrum]

4 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

There's one very important difference: The Hema and the Sibear are crap weapons that almost nobody uses, so it's not a big deal if you don't grind them out. They're just for bragging rights. You f*cking need those avionics and ship parts.

Obviously. I'm just trying to highlight that other grinds are actually bearable (and often even enjoyable), while these weapons have ridiculously terrible grinds and yet aren't even a good reward. To the point that most people simply don't care about them. You can't really brag about getting a weapon when nobody cares about it because it's a terrible weapon that takes way too much work.

Edited January 4, 2020 by DrakeWurrum

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

This community is a funny, funny bunch. 

It's almost as though there are people who don't actually enjoy playing, all they care about is the "rewards"? Which is weird because if they hate playing as much as they pretend to, then no matter what rewards they get they would still complain. And if that were the case then all they really want to do is to complain..... 

Oh..... I... I think I see what's going on.... 

😐