Revenant has no purpose outside solo play.

[Krenlik]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

 

Harrow has a consistent benefit of his 4 giving a dps increase and survivability.  So his design isn't a problem.  If we WERE to improve Revenant's team coop benefits i'd again point to looking at benefits of thralls being killed.  For the most part that's his gameplay loop.  creation and destruction of thralls.  If he was capable of making a group of thralls at once and thralls being killed providing more benefits beyond occasional damage/cc then this loop would work even better.  I don't think making thralls more survivable is the way to go.  It simply doesn't fit with his current mechanics.

 

destroyed thralls provide a DPS increase as an aoe aura?   Kill  thrall, stand in the wake.

 

 

[(PSN)thegarada]

Many frames have no use outside of solo play. And rev has a strong AOE nuke which is useful to clear rooms, which is far from useless.

[Teridax68]

I agree very much with the criticism, not so much with the solution. I very much agree that Revenant is one of a recent generation of extremely selfish frames, whose kit not only has very little interaction with teammates, but is so focused on itself that it doesn't actually work well when other players are around. However, making his Thralls resistant to damage from allies I think would only worsen those problems, and worsen gameplay for his teammates as well, as Thralls are currently fully vulnerable precisely because players already took issue with Nyx's Mind Control target being immune (before it absorbed player damage, anyway). While I perhaps don't hate Revenant as passionately as GearsMatrix, I also agree with them that Revenant needs a more comprehensive rework to deal with all of his other design issues, in this case ideally one that lets him contribute to his team.

[selig_fay]

Give the opportunity to impose 5 stacks of mesmer skin on the allies and he will already protect the allies more than anyone.

And it works on objects from my observations.

Edited January 6, 2020 by zhellon

[Madway7]

6 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

I agree very much with the criticism, not so much with the solution. I very much agree that Revenant is one of a recent generation of extremely selfish frames, whose kit not only has very little interaction with teammates, but is so focused on itself that it doesn't actually work well when other players are around. However, making his Thralls resistant to damage from allies I think would only worsen those problems, and worsen gameplay for his teammates as well, as Thralls are currently fully vulnerable precisely because players already took issue with Nyx's Mind Control target being immune (before it absorbed player damage, anyway). While I perhaps don't hate Revenant as passionately as GearsMatrix, I also agree with them that Revenant needs a more comprehensive rework to deal with all of his other design issues, in this case ideally one that lets him contribute to his team.

While I believed what the OP suggested might have been the solution at one point I no longer think it is, all it would create is further annoyances between Revenant and teammates.

AI allies aren't spectacular, they're not amazing, at best they just draw aggro in a very inconsistent manner (since it depends on AI and relative positioning for the most part)

 

I did want to suggest an alternative idea about thralls, which would be to make them unkillable so long as they are thralls. Explanation: Unlike Nyx's Mind Control, they would still take damage and stop taking damage when at 0 health, but despite being at 0 health they will remain "alive" so long as they are thralls.

And to counter the direct issues of "I can't do anything with thralls until the duration runs out" or "please UN-thrall this enemy" I would have the unthrall mechanic be tied to holding the first ability button down. (it would cancel out all active thralls, if they still have health they live, if not they die)

 

Although the most direct issue with this would be the people who love the 3-1 combo complaining that it would require an extra step with such a change.

 

 

[nslay]

11 hours ago, Madway7 said:

I did want to suggest an alternative idea about thralls, which would be to make them unkillable so long as they are thralls. Explanation: Unlike Nyx's Mind Control, they would still take damage and stop taking damage when at 0 health, but despite being at 0 health they will remain "alive" so long as they are thralls.

I mean, the underlying problem is that the enemies die too easily. All of these "fixes" to Revenant's Thralls are bandaids for the underlying problem: Warframe is too easy to warrant usage of most forms of CC. This is not specific to Revenant either.

So you could hope for balance fix to Warframe to make CC more useful, leave Revenant as a mostly solo frame (possibly with a bandaid "fix" to Thralls for co-op), or rework his abilities to be only damage/buff/debuff/defensive abilities to fit the style of this otherwise 5-10 minute easy mission co-op game. Aside of his thematic issues, I don't think there is really anything functionally wrong with him other than two of his abilities overshadowed by the overall low difficulty of the game. Sure, he has a lame passive and some curious inconsistent synergies, but these do not get in the way of effective use of all 4 of his abilities.

IMO? More beefy Railjack enemies like Gokstad Officers please (their armor is impervious to any form of armor stripping)! Have to hit them in the head a few times with a Kuva Chakkhurr. Sheesh... And seriously, they use a Karak Wraith. Why do they only shoot 3 bullets at a time with long pauses? These kinds of Thralls would have higher/more useful longevity... sadly they usually appear only in solo activities (even with team players, one player is boarding crewships or doing something like disabling missile platforms). So no real room for team CC there!

[p_silveira]

On 2020-01-03 at 11:37 AM, LewdInspector said:

First off, make his thralls immune or at least highly resistant to damage from his allies, and only let Revenant himself and other hostiles be able to kill them. This would actually allow the thralls to do what they are supposed to do - be a distraction.

For the love of god, YES!! It's impossible to do any crowd control with Revenant because there is always an Atterax spinning a**hole that always kill them. They are great in high level defense missions to reduce the aggro on the defense objective, but the ability is completely useless because no thrall near the objective is left alive 2 seconds after you made them.

[(XBOX)LZonut]

Revenant is in too much of a mess right now. He needs more lore to go off of because of his looks and abilities, and yes, while you can play the game using him, there isn't any actual role for him to play. Want CC? Pick a nuker, which is usually better, or pick a frame with instant, reliable CC. Tank? There's so many to choose from, such as Inaros, who does almost all of Revenant's roles better from 0 -185 (random high number) Damage? Revenant is a B in that category. IMO this is his best category, creative design in his 4 and his 3 can be used to OHK enemies, even if it is unreliable in co-op.

It would be better for Revenant if his design had an actual direction. Tbh, his original concept might be better than the one have now, considering his mass sleep 4 and choices for who to enthrall and who to keep as immortals for long lasting CC. His 1 back then I think could be integrated into an on death effect for his 1 now, like when thralls die they just walk around doing nothing while being invulnerable or can take a certain number of hits before dying, because that could be an effective form of long lasting CC, which is a type we don't see much. Putting enemies to sleep however is something you have to make sure you don't mess up, or then he becomes a boring spam button to win frame since sleep is broken.

[CopperBezel]

Having abilities for preventing other players from damaging enemies is never a good idea, but making the thralls immortal undead as long as they're under the ability's effect, even if they're killed, just makes sense. (Assuming no total kit rework, since that's always a popular suggestion and there's two other recent threads about him.)

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

16 minutes ago, CopperBezel said:

Having abilities for preventing other players from damaging enemies is never a good idea, but making the thralls immortal undead as long as they're under the ability's effect, even if they're killed, just makes sense. (Assuming no total kit rework, since that's always a popular suggestion and there's two other recent threads about him.)

Or they could just remove the ability.

[CopperBezel]

Well, that's why I said "assuming no total kit rework", because I fully understand that every suggestion in relation to Revenant has to come with many caveats. I'm just saying that for that one ability, that is the way to fix that one problem within context of what the ability presently does. (While just making thralls invulnerable flat out is definitely not.)

[TearsOfTomorrow]

Ignoring everything else and just looking at the topic's title: "Revenant has no niche, outside of this one thing".

So in other words he does have a niche.