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Why is separate dispo the new thing?


Vitamin.Ex
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I've never seen this with anything other than the Kuva guns (which is understandable). But, why do it with the Aksomati Prime and Baza (I assume)? With the normal Aksomati and a riven, they're pretty good. Now take the same riven on the Aksomati Prime and you have newer weapon which does less damage than the normal version.

This doesn't make sense to do with a pre-existing weapon, and it is in no way an upgrade to the original.

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It's new as of the latest disposition update, all weapon variants (Wraith, Vandal, Prime, etc) are open to receiving dispositions separate from each other.

It was also specified that they wanted to avoid edge cases where the base version of a weapon would be better than its upgrades with a Riven. It's possible some weapons fell through the cracks though I'd suspect DE also considers stats besides pure dps in determining that.

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17 minutes ago, Vitamin.Ex said:

But this has never been done before to any normal version / prime version. Just now. Why change it now?

Cause they just put in this change.  All variants now will have the ability to have different riven dispos.  They did indicate it would be with in bounds so you don't have one be dispo 1 and the other version dispo 5. I think they were finally able to pull something behind the scenes to allow this. 

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because they probably have something new planned for making big sales, and so spinning Rivens down under the veil of 'balance' before spinning up whatever new thing to replace it that they want to deploy and sell instead.

just like always.

Edited by taiiat
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51 minutes ago, Vitamin.Ex said:

But this has never been done before to any normal version / prime version. Just now. Why change it now?

they starting to implement it in the last update you can check the changes here:
 

so basically all variants of the same weapon have different disposition

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It's a step towards reducing power creep and power varience. Basically, rivens weren't introduced as power magnifiers to the hot new things - they were introduced as means to level the playing field, so that weapons further down to progression tree could be brought back up. This includes variants - in theory, letting the Dera match the Dera Vandal through rivens. Of course, this didn't work, because variants had the same riven dispositions. Changing that means Rivens can actually go towards their intended purpose (which is an improvement in my book)

1 hour ago, Vitamin.Ex said:

But this has never been done before to any normal version / prime version. Just now. Why change it now?

Because it was a bad system, and thus changing it makes it better.  They are retroactively rolling this out, and eventually everything will use this system.

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Because rather than doing actual balancing and adjusting values, they can sell you riven slots on a half-assed system that is supposedly doing it for them.

Except it doesn't work, the idea is flawed from the start, rivens are obviously intended as upgrades/not as balancing measure and 99.9% of the player base don't care about 99.9% of the weapons.

If everyone could stop lying about Rivens being a balancing system (rather than the initial idea being as such) and stop apologizing on behalf of DE, that would be swell. You're bashing people down with idiotic arguments that make no sense in reality. Balance is a joke and vastly overrated, most of you don't even know what it is.

The Aksomati are not supposed to be comparable to the Aksomati Prime. They are in two different categories. Any excuse about making bad weapons good is just covering up that the system isn't working. Stick your intentions where the sun doesn't shine.

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11 hours ago, Vitamin.Ex said:

But this has never been done before to any normal version / prime version. Just now. Why change it now?

Because they didn't have the code for it up until now, but now they do, and they prefer it for the sake of more blanket weapon viability. 

Edited by Cubewano
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15 hours ago, (NSW)Sk0rp1on said:

I dont think it’s meant to be an upgrade? 
 

The seperate versions of weapons have different stats, so it kind of makes sense that they could have different dispositions.

Still the same weapon family. Now we have the problem of primes being barely better than the standard (at least for new incoming primes that get barely upgraded over the standard ones like recently the baza and aksomati) for riven owners especially. Did some comparisons using warframe builder with my riven on aksomati and aksomati prime. With a full build, the prime has a measly 3k more dps but requires a new potato and formas. And that's ignoring the fact that at this point the prime + riven will only get worse due to future dispo changes and more people using the prime. Rivens could've been a nice type of endgame with lots of replayability back when every weapon had a dispo around 1.00 due to the fact people would like to collect and roll rivens for all kinds weapons they like to maximize the build potential and due to rolling RNG, keep grinding kuva. But then they've introduced this disposition nonsense and everything fun is bound to become worse and worse every 3 months. Just so they can say "hurr we want people to use underused weapons". Still waiting for Prisma Acrid by the way.

4 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

I just love how so many players are crying because the already powerful weapons can't be even more powerful.

Like that's any useful in this game. I still only have like 2 melee rivens and i can still complete any mission easily. 

You progamer you.

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13 hours ago, (PS4)Double991 said:

Balance wise it makes total sense. Fun wise it's awful.

Well basically whenever you got a primed weapon that you already had a riven for you could be ready for the disposition to tank before, you might get some time to play with it when it had a high disposition, but things like the stradavar and similar like the Zhuge get smacked down if a prime gets released. I have a -puncture riven that makes the normal Zhuge into a slash proccing monster, but because the Zhuge prime got released the disposition started getting smacked down and it's no good on the Zhuge prime.

 

Entirely unrelated from what I just quoted, I do want to say that the increased status chance on Aksomati Prime is the kind of reason why we need separate dispositions, 10% doesn't sound like a lot but when everything is based off the base going from 8 to 18% even if no other stats change is going to make fire and corrosive proc a lot more reliably and drastically lower kill times on things with armor. No riven is going to bring the penta up to the secura penta, make the tiberon competitive with the tiberon prime, or make the afuris compete with the dex afuris so it doesn't make sense to shackle the weapons together. Frankly though the real change we need is some kind of extra beyond 1.5 disposition for weapons like the Kunai or the pre-rework Kesheg.

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5 hours ago, ChaosSabre said:

Yea problem arises when the base weapon compared to upgraded weapon is a minor change in stats. You picked aksomati and baza here and regular variants are actually better than their prime with a riven. Which is pretty hilarious to me.

That depends on the rivens, I think.    I don't have Baza Prime yet, but Aksomati Prime is much, much better versus targets that matter with my Crit / Toxin / +recoil riven.

Which doesn't mean DE put enough space between the versions to make up for the disposition difference.  I just know a blanket statement that "regular variants are actually better than their prime with a riven" isn't accurate in the Aksomati's case.

Edited by Tiltskillet
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Just now, ChaosSabre said:

You are still doing less damage with it. The prime version has 2 extra base damage and higher status chance. That's it. You'll be getting more stats on regular one.

The riven will actually be way more effective on regular version as well since the prime also has worse accuracy.

I've tested them.  There's a huge difference in the Prime's favor with my riven, both in terms of ttk and ammo efficiency.

The accuracy difference while it spools up is so small in actual effect that I'm not sure it's working correctly.  Once it spools up, the Prime is so much more accurate than the base version it's like a different gun entirely.  It's a  far more capable headshot weapon.  You can see this very easily yourself if you just spend a minute comparing both weapons.  The bullet pattern on the base version is huge compared to the prime.

Again, I'm not saying rivens -don't- exist that would make the base version better--especially situationally.  Although as far as I know, nobody has actually demonstrated it, situationally or otherwise, in a way that takes status application into account. 

What I do know is rivens -do- exist that make the Prime -a lot- better, and I have one of them.

Edited by Tiltskillet
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19 hours ago, Vitamin.Ex said:

But this has never been done before to any normal version / prime version. Just now. Why change it now?

You know the tiberon before the prime it had and iirc still does have a 5/5 dispo the prime came out and it was forced to have the same dispo even though the tiberon prime is leagues better than the tiberon. it didn't make sense why does the weaker weapon that most the time is rocking a 4-5 dispo then a prime rolls around that makes it a good weapon and is forced to follow the same dispo as the normal variant. personally i'm glad it happened since we have some sense of balance between variants its not use the X variant of a gun and ride off the fact the original is so under used so your riven is ubermensch 

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