Rail Jack Crewship Strategies (Dome Charges)

[LordPreda]

On 2020-01-07 at 12:46 AM, [DE]Marcus said:

@Mr.Fluffins 

Empyrean is still in its early stages. Long term, we look forward to further updates with new content, including the Command Intrinsic class, and more. Expect balancing across the board in the near future!

Pls remember to put the Railjack's actual name on the squad-visible Railjack life bar instead of just the word "railjack"

[wizardeiges]

Huh.  had no idea about garuda.  you can use nudus link to buff a pilot rhino for huge damage. 

[Pendragon1951]

One thing for sure that needs to change is having to "X" out of the pilot seat hit "X" again to go down to the artillery seat line up the target shoot then "X" out of the artillery seat then "X" back into the pilot seat. The way it should have been designed is not to have to leave the pilot seat but hit a keybind to bring up the artillery targeting, fire then keybind back to normal while still able to pilot the craft. The way it's currently designed is a waste of motion and time.

[TheGrimCorsair]

4 hours ago, Pendragon1951 said:

One thing for sure that needs to change is having to "X" out of the pilot seat hit "X" again to go down to the artillery seat line up the target shoot then "X" out of the artillery seat then "X" back into the pilot seat. The way it should have been designed is not to have to leave the pilot seat but hit a keybind to bring up the artillery targeting, fire then keybind back to normal while still able to pilot the craft. The way it's currently designed is a waste of motion and time.

Nah, the railjack has 4 seats for 4 players, the pilot and the engineer should coordinate to manage the big gun. If the two can't work together for whatever reason, you're just gonna have to make due. That said, the artillery position could use a much higher maximum magnification with multiple, stepped-levels of zoom.

[FataL-Flaw]

On 2020-01-07 at 3:38 PM, Worldbrand said:

Consider which investment should be rewarded more for this gamemode: crafting Archguns and using rivens/forma, or crafting Railjack armaments and using avionics to boost their power. I personally think the Railjack armaments should sail past Archguns by at least a factor of 2

I have a very well rolled cyngas riven and also T3 Vidar/Zetki Cryophons and every possible damage avionic.  I can tell you even in the current state the Cryophons are far more effective at taking out fighters..which is the only thing that is relevant since neither is able to kill a crewship.

 

They need to bring the other archguns up.. not nerf the only one that works.  Otherwise why even have archwing in railjack?  They should be able to do something..

[Astrauckas]

On 2020-01-07 at 5:01 AM, Fast_Pickle said:

you explicitly advertised warframes you bring would matter because their abilities would work with the ship. do not backpedal on this.

I don't know about you, but it seems like you've never accessed the tactical menu on the Railjack before. Rhino Roar buffing the ship is unintentional. Being able to use certain Warframe abilities from the tactical menu is intentional.

[darkemplar8]

TL:DR here:

1)   Give railjack debuff/supportive auras that provide passive effects like slow/loot detection/healing/allied damage buff. Aura can be toggled to provide boosted benefits while consuming flux energy. This is to address issue of amesha being mandatory in all team compositions and to also be a reason to NOT NERF AMESHA.

2)   Loot pick-up/detection needs a patchup, needs waypoints and/or greater vacuum range. Also, loot extraction supposedly only works for clients if host/crewmember refines resources at forge, else you return home with credits only. Rip all them void holes/munitions vortexes lost to failed loot extraction. Also, gunners should be able to mark/waypoint loot

3)   Tenno archwings aren't equal to enemy fighters, they're simply jetpacks with abilities. Implement a flyable/pilotable fighter equivalent to deal with the enemies. Fighter equivalents can be selected while in dry dock by each member, and selection is available from researching at dry dock else obtained via grineer/corpus enemy blueprint/part drops.

4)   Vidar reactors with 2% drop chance AND bad rng scale needs to be changed to an upgradeable reactor. More upgrades(costs resources or rush drones, whatever tenno prefer) result in more reactor avionic capacity, at the max of 100 capacity. Also, each reactor has a given number of upgrades, and tenno can choose whether they want to upgrade flux energy OR avionic capacity. They can also spend forma to increase the number of upgrades to be gained(forma grants +5 capacity or +10 flux energy, or else each forma grants +1 upgrade point. Also apply this change to the other reactors, except each house reactor has different flux/avionic capacity base and max amounts.

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1)   In the current state of empyrean, due to the enemy armor scaling and the potential for crewships to 1shot tenno in archwing, only the amesha is able to easily handle taking the hits. This leaves out the other archwings, as they can abrely take a hit and survive, let alone 2 hits(mostly due to latency issues greater than 100, and even if itzal can cloak and remain unseen, that doesn't mean itzal can take a stray hit and survive). In resolving the need to use amesha ALL THE TIME due to the huge help it provides in slow aura as well as the fact that it's basically space trinity, toggle-able tactical avionics that provide PASSIVE effects could be implemented(slowing effect, magnetic field to redirect enemy missile/projectile fire, healing field, loot vacuum that has greater than current loot radius, loot radar, the list goes on).This would be the railjack equivalent of a warframe aura. In a team effort, each tenno should also be able to contribute their own railjack's toggle-able tactical avionic to the host's railjack(host's tactical avionic will provide the strongest bonus while fellow crewmembers provide a lesser bonus) and provide multiple effects on the field. All 4 tenno with loot radar would mean a greater detection range than if only the host brought loot detection, for instance. To not leave out solo players, they get doubled the host's benefit in a solo run. Also, I stated that this should be toggle-able so that when active, it would provide boosted effects at the cost of flux energy drain. This is to be used situationally(railjack is surrounded by 3+ crewships, 30+ fighters, is taking terrible terrible damage, and has no void hole/munitions vortex/seeker volley/other battle avionic).

2)   Adding to the top change, loot pick-up and loot extraction fixes are needed. I'm certain I've probably lost countless avionics and who knows how much resources due to the lack of loot radar and the abysmal loot pick-up radius(250m pick-up radius is ALOT of pick-up space if it's in a ground situation, but really it feels like I actually need to physically touch loot to pick them up and feels like 25m in front of me, if even that). The lack of loot radar doesn't help either as loot can be ANYWHERE in ANY direction of your railjack, and with all the visual noise(asteroids/rocks/spacecraft/explosions/particles), it's easy to lose track of any and all loot locations. The loot also don't really make it obvious where they are unless you're within about 500m or so of them and you are LOOKING DIRECTLY at them. Loot radar needs to be a thing in empyrean, else loot pick-up radius buff and/or loot identification needs to be implemented similar to how rare resources like argon crystals or vitus essences are waypointed.

This is an add-on to 2nd statement as I've seen that Danielle has posted about loot visibility/pickup: Would be VERY BENEFICIAL if gunners can mark/waypoint loot. If there's a TON of waypointed loot, most of which would be resources, it'd be nice if loot marked by gunners would have a special blinking effect or something to emphasize that it's an important pick-up(wouldn't want to miss a void hole or something in a sea of copernics, right?).

3)   So far in space combat, enemy grineer and corpus have access to jetpack troops, fighters, and crewships. We the tenno have archwings and the newly released railjack(which needs improvements such as weapon balancing for the better and NOT nerfs, most avionics needing patches to make them actually useful). Archwings, so far, feel like jetpacks with special abilities. In combat, on Earth, they're okay-ish in survivability versus any fighter. Just when you have to deal with crewships are they almost no good in taking a hit, as all crewships 1shot you. Hence the massive push in having to use amesha to debuffing and almost completely negating damage taken. This is fine and good, except it leaves much to be desired, as I really wanna use itzal and the other 2 archwings we almost never use(cuz go figure, archwings haven't ever been used by the majority of players for a while). In my personal honest opinion, crewships and fighters should put less priority on tenno in archwings unless tenno are dangerously close to them. So rather than just simply nerfing the enemy fighters/crewship armor and/or damage output, what if the tenno could bring in their own fighters of sort? Something of a cross between the archwing and the railjack in terms of survivability/damage output. This could basically be a kind of zaw-empyrean spacecraft in which tenno research orokin parts back at dry dock, and acquire(*ahem, steal blueprints/parts) from corpus/grineer fighters/crewships to add enhancements of other factions to their fighters. Tenno can deploy these fighters from the railjack, and can equip the railjack weapons on them. Omni can be used to recall tenno and fighter back to railjack, costs 25 omni to recall. Though this idea should be implemented AFTER current state of railjack is fixed/patched.

4)   My luck with the vidar reactor is legendary(or so I believe). 20+ reactors so far, all of them provide less than 40 avionics capacity. I do not believe that RNG on top of RNG(mission reward drop table reward of 2% with a capacity range) is a good idea for content. I know there are definitely people with 90+ cap reactors, maybe even someone owning a 100 cap reactor. The fact that I've wasted all this time to get something that is much less useful than a researched mk3 sigma reactor is depressing, disappointing, and frustrating. A change is needed for this(especially as it's frustrating just about for anyone who farms empyrean for it). I propose changing house reactors so that the reactors have a starting base amount of flux/avionics capacity, and we can upgrade them with resources/dirac obtained in missions. Resources and/or dirac can be used to grant an upgrade point. Each reactor will have a set amount of upgrades possible, and tenno can choose whether flux energy or avionic capacity is upgraded. This consumes an upgrade point. Once maxed out on points useable, tenno can also spend forma to increase the number of upgrade points(by 1 point each forma, up to 5 or so), or else each forma spent can grant additive bonuses to stats(+5 avionic capacity or +10 flux). Could also use forma to make a new forma called empyrean forma or something to increase upgrade points.

If #4 is implemented, all currently existing reactors should not be affected. Tenno already spent a ton of time farming for their 90+ capacity reactors, should let them keep their prizes, after all.

 

Edit: I see Danielle has commented on loot visibility in another post, and has also thought of adding loot markers.

Edited January 9, 2020 by darkemplar8
Acknowledging Danielle has spoken about loot detection/visibility. Also adding to what Danielle has suggested.

[-Augustus-]

On 2020-01-06 at 12:46 PM, [DE]Marcus said:

@Mr.Fluffins 

Priority number one for the coming weeks is Empyrean. We’ve been gathering feedback about the update, but one that stands out is a need to tackle weapon balancing. The goal is to make your Railjack’s weapons feel more impactful in every mission. As with all updates, we try to balance ahead of time as best as possible before launch. We want to improve from here.

Few Warframe Abilities unintentionally work on the Railjack itself, bringing a meta Warframe to Railjack Weapons is not a design outcome we intended (i.e Chroma does not work). Our goal here is to balance so that players don’t feel they need to use Rhino’s Roar; Railjack weapons should feel powerful on their own. And right now they don’t. A main reason for this is the enemy Armor values are extremely high - on Dev we have halved all armor values for fighters to test that, and will send it out if it feels better! 

Empyrean is still in its early stages. Long term, we look forward to further updates with new content, including the Command Intrinsic class, and more. Expect balancing across the board in the near future!

The consistency with which you guys miss the point is exceeded only by such misses' magnitude; both boggle the mind.

Edited January 9, 2020 by -Augustus-

[Darkmega18]

On 2020-01-07 at 11:31 AM, Fast_Pickle said:

you explicitly advertised warframes you bring would matter because their abilities would work with the ship. do not backpedal on this.
 

not sure thats exactly what they meant. it was more that they bring tactical calldowns from the tactical menu. but no-one uses them. Not that you should only pick damage boosting frames which make it unfair to the other frames that can't. but other than the rest of the stuff you said, it would be neat if a frame would deliver some kind of passive bonus to being aboard the ship also.

 

and to add to the "railjack crewship strategies" name of the original discussion but not necessarily with dome charges since it just feels easier to infiltrate them with sling instead:

loki is a damn good crewship infiltrator combined with some magus lockdown dashes. from the entrance you just dash all the way through and stun enemies, then invis at the last dash, then disarm towards the front of the ship. it disarms the enemies and pops them off their stations so they can't use the rear gun underneath or the side gun and the pilot pops off so the ship is inert basically. then just bait em all in with a decoy, murderize and steal the ship till the next one shows up. then just hack the reactor, shoot a tigris into it (tigris one shots reactors) then TP out and grab the loot and go yeet to the next ship and repeat.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Darkmega18

[Anthraxicus]

On 2020-01-06 at 7:46 PM, [DE]Marcus said:

@Mr.Fluffins 

Priority number one for the coming weeks is Empyrean. We’ve been gathering feedback about the update, but one that stands out is a need to tackle weapon balancing. The goal is to make your Railjack’s weapons feel more impactful in every mission. As with all updates, we try to balance ahead of time as best as possible before launch. We want to improve from here.

Few Warframe Abilities unintentionally work on the Railjack itself, bringing a meta Warframe to Railjack Weapons is not a design outcome we intended (i.e Chroma does not work). Our goal here is to balance so that players don’t feel they need to use Rhino’s Roar; Railjack weapons should feel powerful on their own. And right now they don’t. A main reason for this is the enemy Armor values are extremely high - on Dev we have halved all armor values for fighters to test that, and will send it out if it feels better! 

Empyrean is still in its early stages. Long term, we look forward to further updates with new content, including the Command Intrinsic class, and more. Expect balancing across the board in the near future!

I can understand you guys missing some Warframes buffing Railjack weapons, after all, all you've been doing lately is content designed for Warframes that can buff weapons and forgetting everything else, but I can't understand how you miss the jewel in the crown, forward artillery, doing absolutely nothing to crewships under normal circumstances. That is not balancing ahead of time as best as possible. That is a complete lack of any sort of balancing.

[gluih]

On 2020-01-06 at 11:46 PM, [DE]Marcus said:

Few Warframe Abilities unintentionally work on the Railjack itself, bringing a meta Warframe to Railjack Weapons is not a design outcome we intended (i.e Chroma does not work). Our goal here is to balance so that players don’t feel they need to use Rhino’s Roar; Railjack weapons should feel powerful on their own. And right now they don’t. A main reason for this is the enemy Armor values are extremely high - on Dev we have halved all armor values for fighters to test that, and will send it out if it feels better! 

I think it would make much more sense to look at range in railjack before changing armor. It seems like fall off and vacuum ranges are way too short. When enemies are close enough, they actually die very quickly. It is also very difficult - almost impossible to properly hit enemies with a lot of the archwing weapons, because of the travel time on their projectiles.

[Anthraxicus]

17 minutes ago, gluih said:

I think it would make much more sense to look at range in railjack before changing armor. It seems like fall off and vacuum ranges are way too short. When enemies are close enough, they actually die very quickly. It is also very difficult - almost impossible to properly hit enemies with a lot of the archwing weapons, because of the travel time on their projectiles.

I agree. They should be looking at fall off ranges before anything else (except crewships vs forward artillery). The fact that Vidar Carcinnox have 4x the range of other weapons leads me to believe DE had intended to have longer range engagements but decided to nerf everything.

[poncho2k]

You can oneshot crewships even in veil when you hit the right spot, without any buffs or forward artillery. Maybe its a bug, but i'm doing it all the time. 

As pilot, i disable the engines with my guns, fly over it to see it frome above, then switch to the artillery and shoot in the center of the ship where the reactor would be inside. 9/10 times instakill, or i missed the shot. 

[gluih]

2 minutes ago, Anthraxicus said:

I agree. They should be looking at fall off ranges before anything else (except crewships vs forward artillery). The fact that Vidar Carcinnox have 4x the range of other weapons leads me to believe DE had intended to have longer range engagements but decided to nerf everything.

Yes, except for crewships vs forward artillery.

You mean nerf range? It really seems more like whoever decided on the vacuum and fall off ranges didn't know what it would mean in practice. I'm curious in general, how the scales work in railjack. I am willing to be beliece, that the railjack in the dry dock is as big on the inside as it is on the outside. In space it seems off and the crewships are definitely wrong. Would be nice to get some insight on this in the next devstream.

[gluih]

2 minutes ago, poncho2k said:

You can oneshot crewships even in veil when you hit the right spot, without any buffs or forward artillery. Maybe its a bug, but i'm doing it all the time. 

As pilot, i disable the engines with my guns, fly over it to see it frome above, then switch to the artillery and shoot in the center of the ship where the reactor would be inside. 9/10 times instakill, or i missed the shot. 

So are you very close to the crewship, when you are hitting it then? This might just be another case of the fall off not working properly.

[poncho2k]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb gluih:

So are you very close to the crewship, when you are hitting it then? This might just be another case of the fall off not working properly.

Maybe 200 - 300m

[Anthraxicus]

1 hour ago, gluih said:

Yes, except for crewships vs forward artillery.

You mean nerf range? It really seems more like whoever decided on the vacuum and fall off ranges didn't know what it would mean in practice. I'm curious in general, how the scales work in railjack. I am willing to be beliece, that the railjack in the dry dock is as big on the inside as it is on the outside. In space it seems off and the crewships are definitely wrong. Would be nice to get some insight on this in the next devstream.

What I mean is that during internal testing, DE had probably balanced the weapons' fall off range for at least 4 Km. But prior to the release, they changed all the weapons to 1 Km, except for one. The Vidar Carcinnox retaining the 4 Km was an oversight from their part 

[AvPCelticPredator]

On 2020-01-06 at 11:46 PM, [DE]Marcus said:

As with all updates, we try to balance ahead of time as best as possible before launch. We want to improve from here.

If u want to improve things then you should add one more slot for avionic which can have effect similar to (Vaccum) on sentinels that we can collect mods and other resources in open space during the mission, we don't need always to droping there with our archwings for looting, cuz there is no point to spend one hour in one mission just for looting and farming. Also the second thing is time cycling for Sentient ship is to much to wait for 3h that he spawn just for 30 min. You should add same time cycling like we have on Tridolon for Sentient ship, and do not forget adding time cycling on our navigation inside orbiter that we can know when ship coming, right now we don't know that, we need to searching on google.

Regards!