Corrosive vs Magnetic vs Viral

[Leavith]

This discussion is about the titled procs... But more importantly Magnetic procs. This titled mods are mainly the discussion because they are pretty much reduction mods for the three particular things that keep our enemy alive.

Let me give you a rundown the benefits of corrosive procs is that it removes armor and is permanent debuff that stacks. Which is great. But we can say it has a weakness is that is pretty much enemy faction exclusive- well it is true and is not. It is true because grineer main thing is armor and that sucks cause it reduces damage... But it isn't at the same time because when DE wants to make sure we don't one-shot something they give it armor. From corpus to infested enemy, all have some armor in their factions.

The benefit of viral procs is that it halves enemy health, which is also great because this works on every faction (that you can apply procs on)... Downside has duration... So do the job in duration you have or watch your work be lost. Still a good procs because it deals with something all enemy type have which is good.

Now reaching our golden poor child... Magnetic procs..... Benefits it halves enemy shields(and is mainly used as the bane of our existence by our enemies)... However, the weakness it has been that it is actually pretty much factions exclusive minus some bosses or special enemies but you will only see it on corpus enemies. The other weakness it has that we are dealing with it has duration. Now do not get me wrong, this proc and damage is useless if you are modding for a weapon and you need 4 elemental status mod to reach 100%/chance and use gas proc... Just go to the trading post and look for some acolyte mod that increases status chance is a better investment and you aren't using proc like magnetic instead electric that stuns and arcs damage and frost that slows down the enemy.

So i don't get a suggestion on how to fix this, but i want to hear your take on this. I am not trying to say we need to do something for magnetic proc but it would be nice... But magnetic as it works maybe because shields aren't are bad as armor or health that is weak... I think it is the way it is.

What do you guys think? Maybe i am not using it right or haven't realized something. So inform me what you know.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Leavith

[Diangelius]

6 minutes ago, Leavith said:

So i don't got suggestion how to fix this, but i want to head your take on this.

Would be nice if Magnetic proc had extended duration to 8 or 10s, and it could disable skills usage of some mobs and bosses, such as Nullifiers' bubble, Commando's switch teleport, Hellion's aerial bombard, Shield Osprey's shield boost, or even disable all Eximus variants' exclusive auras, etc.

[Leavith]

3 minutes ago, Diangelius said:

Would be nice if Magnetic proc had extended duration to 8 or 10s, and it could disable skills usage of some mobs and bosses, such as Nullifiers' bubble, Commando's switch teleport, Hellion's aerial bombard, Shield Osprey's shield boost, or even disable all Eximus variants' exclusive auras, etc.

It would be a cool feature and would make it more viable, i would also include the other not attack melee or gun feature mobs have... Like the hook shot, infested aura disabled, and shock wave attack from heavies... Since it isn't permanent it lacks that OP of it and it would serve more as a give me some breathing room proc like blast kinda does minus the CC from knockdown.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Leavith

[TARINunit9]

It's almost like Corrosive being the one damage type to rule them all, and Magnetic being useless, is intentional by DE at this point. I mean if DE really wanted to make Magnetic useful they could have made the Sentients weak to it, but nope, weak to Corrosive like everything else above level 25

[Leavith]

8 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

It's almost like Corrosive being the one damage type to rule them all, and Magnetic being useless, is intentional by DE at this point. I mean if DE really wanted to make Magnetic useful they could have made the Sentients weak to it, but nope, weak to Corrosive like everything else above level 25

I get where you are coming from, but i think it may have to do a lot with us. We kinda haven't given a flip about this proc. Like, take a look at slash puncture and impact... We talk about how great slash but never talk about the other procs.. Not even how bad they are. We just make it meme... And i know we are discussing procs not damage multiplier of the element but i am likely to bring a viral sentinal against the corpus faction do it can proc viral on enemies then i am to bring magnetic.

(Usually gas me and viral sentinal or toxic me.)

I tested weeping wound with a ceramic dagger(has no slash) and well impact is good cause it works like a cheap blast proc we all get so it has good use while... Puncture proc... It makes no difference used frost against a butcher level 115 and my max shield is 1505 he hits me with no puncture proc i get 781 shields left... Then with puncture proc i get 998 shields left, and maybe i read this somewhere that it stacked but it doesn't. While i can see is use when puncture proc enemy comes against armor and health enemies i don't see it being a reason we would choose a weapon for it.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Leavith

[Aadi880]

Ferrite armor has Iron in it. Why not make magnetic procs pulls enemies closer together, emulating the armor being "magnetized"? This will make it especially useful in viral + magnetic melee builds (innate corrosive would be god send).

Magnetic damage should deal 25% additional damage to ferrite armor. (not armor strip, just an increased damage dealt, so nothing of too much importance is lost).

[ArcKnight9202]

I'd like it to reduce accuracy. It could simulate the gun being pulled towards bulkheads and doors and is harder to keep steady. Especially with guided rockets and stuff from Bombards. The rockets could drift closer to walls and such.

 

[Chewarette]

8 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

Ferrite armor has Iron in it. Why not make magnetic procs pulls enemies closer together, emulating the armor being "magnetized"? This will make it especially useful in viral + magnetic melee builds (innate corrosive would be god send).

Something like that yeah.

Could also be :

- Enemies slowed down (metallic boots and armor)

- Fire-arms jammed

- % self-damage from using specific weapons (with bullets)

[TARINunit9]

17 minutes ago, Leavith said:

We kinda haven't given a flip about this proc.

I was talking about the damage in general, proc included. The proc just becomes the straw and camel's back and all that

[BDMblue]

Magnetic could cause all shots fired around it to have a chance of creating a extra multi shot to hit that target. 25% since it is such a week damage type it should amp damage to its target.

[Skaleek]

Shield vamp. Get after it.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Skaleek

[0_The_F00l]

This is mostly cause shields suck, while armor is broken, for damage reduction. 

If shields were half as effective in damage mitigation for enemies as it is for armor of equal level and value ,magnetic would be a lot more effective without any major changes (enemy weapon jamming for duration would be nice though) 

Currently you can straight away bypass shields with Toxin but there is no option for armor (other than true damage sources which are not easy to apply and 4xCP) 

We don't need a magnetic proc rework we need a shield rework. 

[Diangelius]

4 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

We don't need a magnetic proc rework we need a shield rework. 

Rework on shield does not make Magnetic better at all. In the best scenario it just made a few people pay a little more attention to magnetic proc, otherwise just cheating on shield with Toxin, Gas and Slash proc is better.

Furthermore, if DE is not clever on Shield rework, Shield will be f***ed up all over just like Armor.

[0_The_F00l]

1 minute ago, Diangelius said:

Rework on shield does not make Magnetic better at all. In the best scenario it just made a few people pay a little more attention to magnetic proc, otherwise just cheating on shield with Toxin, Gas and Slash proc is better.

This is assuming shields can still be bypassed by these procs, let's not assume a condition at this early stage, just because it has been the case so far does not mean it will remain to be so. If Tenno can get shield gates, so can the enemies, 

2 minutes ago, Diangelius said:

.Furthermore, if DE is not clever on Shield rework, Shield will be f***ed up all over just like Armor.

Yes. Which would make them equally annoying and magnetic procs would actually become an option to build for at higher difficulties. 

[Leavith]

7 hours ago, BDMblue said:

Magnetic could cause all shots fired around it to have a chance of creating a extra multi shot to hit that target. 25% since it is such a week damage type it should amp damage to its target.

Could work l, but deeply don't want to leave any RNG with the fact Procs are RNG

[Leavith]

6 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

This is mostly cause shields suck, while armor is broken, for damage reduction. 

If shields were half as effective in damage mitigation for enemies as it is for armor of equal level and value ,magnetic would be a lot more effective without any major changes (enemy weapon jamming for duration would be nice though) 

Currently you can straight away bypass shields with Toxin but there is no option for armor (other than true damage sources which are not easy to apply and 4xCP) 

We don't need a magnetic proc rework we need a shield rework. 

@Diangelius kinda took the words out of my mouth, even if we fix shield it isn't going to fix magnetic procs.

Look at the property of magnetic damage itself we are dealing with proc that halves the value of shield, for basically an exclusive faction(corpus), and with a duration.

Any usefull change to shields for the enemy makes it a headache for us... I can't see people getting behind that.. The only change j can see viable to make the current magnetic proc useful is.

Shields reduce the other damage type greatly like to 25% (damage type matching) and you can't bypass them with them slash.

Only toxic DoT proc bypasses shields, not toxic damage.

5 hours ago, Diangelius said:

Rework on shield does not make Magnetic better at all. In the best scenario it just made a few people pay a little more attention to magnetic proc, otherwise just cheating on a shield with Toxin, Gas, and Slash proc is better.

Furthermore, if DE is not clever on Shield rework, Shield will be f***ed up all over just like Armor.

I agree with you, i tried looking at it from the shield perspective and i was like i prefer to choose to use something because is fun, instead of being force to choose something because i have to. This translate to is preferable for us to work magnetic proc to be more useful so we use it more ...than to mess with shields and make it more difficult for us and we are forced to use magnetic.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Leavith

[Anthraxicus]

7 hours ago, Leavith said:

I get where you are coming from, but i think it may have to do a lot with us. We kinda haven't given a flip about this proc. Like, take a look at slash puncture and impact... We talk about how great slash but never talk about the other procs.. Not even how bad they are. We just make it meme... And i know we are discussing procs not damage multiplier of the element but i am likely to bring a viral sentinal against the corpus faction do it can proc viral on enemies then i am to bring magnetic.

(Usually gas me and viral sentinal or toxic me.)

I tested weeping wound with a ceramic dagger(has no slash) and well impact is good cause it works like a cheap blast proc we all get so it has good use while... Puncture proc... It makes no difference used frost against a butcher level 115 and my max shield is 1505 he hits me with no puncture proc i get 781 shields left... Then with puncture proc i get 998 shields left, and maybe i read this somewhere that it stacked but it doesn't. While i can see is use when puncture proc enemy comes against armor and health enemies i don't see it being a reason we would choose a weapon for it.

Nope. It has nothing to do with us. The fault lies entirely with DE.

I mean, imagine a world where a projectile misses the body entirely, thanks to shields blocking it, and you don't bleed to death because of a slash proc? Now, that would be useful shield and may consider bringing the tools to defeat said shields. It ain't so hard to imagine.......except for DE, who not only makes shields useless and can be bypassed, but also makes magnetic damage weak and its procs worthless.

[Ham_Grenabe]

6 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

This is assuming shields can still be bypassed by these procs, let's not assume a condition at this early stage, just because it has been the case so far does not mean it will remain to be so. If Tenno can get shield gates, so can the enemies, 

The widespread panic if DE changed it so that there were no bypass procs...my god, it would be terrible and beautiful. 

[OliverSniper]

I think magnetic would bee a great proc if It would have a smal "pullsing" pull effect like the Ferox in adition to it's shiled reduceing effect or take avay the shiled halfing effect and add a stronger pull that way it would synirgise with gas pr

[0_The_F00l]

1 hour ago, Leavith said:

@Diangelius kinda took the words out of my mouth, even if we fix shield it isn't going to fix magnetic procs.

Look at the property of magnetic damage itself we are dealing with proc that halves the value of shield, for basically an exclusive faction(corpus), and with a duration.

Any usefull change to shields for the enemy makes it a headache for us... I can't see people getting behind that.. The only change j can see viable to make the current magnetic proc useful is.

Shields reduce the other damage type greatly like to 25% (damage type matching) and you can't bypass them with them slash.

Only toxic DoT proc bypasses shields, not toxic damage.

so its ok for armor to be over powered and broken but shields being strong is not OK?, i have also proposed rework of armor which is more about the overall level scaling of enemies (not here elsewhere).

i am one who feels Armor is such a problem due to is being much too strong compared to shields "at the same level", one needs to be reduced and one needs to be improved so elemental choice actually makes a difference (also suggested a health regen feature for infested which we are getting a taste of in veil proxima). A level 100 grineer should not require 10 times the damage output than corpus to die.

Only Toxic DoT bypass would i guess be a step in the right direction for shields  though it does not change the gas effect as it is still toxin procs or not? maybe make it not get affected by gas at all?.

1 hour ago, Leavith said:

I agree with you, i tried looking at it from the shield perspective and i was like i prefer to choose to use something because is fun, instead of being force to choose something because i have to. This translate to is preferable for us to work magnetic proc to be more useful so we use it more ...than to mess with shields and make it more difficult for us and we are forced to use magnetic.

This would be true if there wasn't already a force on corrosive procs, for armored enemies at higher levels.

There should be a choice , but having a choice does not mean being able to breeze through anything with the same build irrespective of faction , which is currently the case.

Edited January 6, 2020 by 0_The_F00l

[(PSN)thegarada]

The issue stems from shields. Shields have no damage reduction and take full damage from all damage types that it does not have an inherent reduction from. Where armor receives significantly less damage at higher levels. As such, you do not build damage around reducing enemy shields. It does not matter. However, you must have tools to either reduce armor or bypass it. Even when fighting corpus and infested, since they do have some armored units.

And for most melee weapons, the best combo is viral and slash. Ignore the armor and shields. Cut HP in half, while bleeds "true damage" annihilate the target HP. Why even bother with magnetic?

The procs/damage type system.. sucks 🙁

[ChaoticEdge]

in the way to be, viral is mostly being pick as king because due of teaming up with bleed which bleed is the best friend for viral for due of viral cut health down and bleed just finish it afterwards, Magnet is dealing with corpus guys with heavy shielding because we all know shields are for weebs and yet shield get no respect, so corrosive can deal with armor but the only thing is they just deal with armor and you just make them bleed out but it doesn't deal with much what the person expect to be.

[Anthraxicus]

Do the Grineer have armor around their lungs? I mean, the Corpus wear masks and shields, and even so a gas can obliterate them. But a Grineer, with their faces fully exposed sometimes, can mitigate the effects of said gas with their armors.

 

Would be nice if damage models made some sense.

[LoneWolveYoutube]

I think giving magnetic a small AOE stun meme would be pretty cool.  It could be similar to gas but a short stun.  Magnetic is just kinda poopy atm unfortunately. 

[Anthraxicus]

3 minutes ago, LoneWolveYT said:

I think giving magnetic a small AOE stun meme would be pretty cool.  It could be similar to gas but a short stun.  Magnetic is just kinda poopy atm unfortunately. 

I like the idea of making enemies attract each other. Would help Mag a bit.