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Leavith

Corrosive vs Magnetic vs Viral

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5 hours ago, Anthraxicus said:

Nope. It has nothing to do with us. The fault lies entirely with DE.

I mean, imagine a world where a projectile misses the body entirely, thanks to shields blocking it, and you don't bleed to death because of a slash proc? Now, that would be useful shield and may consider bringing the tools to defeat said shields. It ain't so hard to imagine.......except for DE, who not only makes shields useless and can be bypassed but also makes magnetic damage weak and its procs worthless.

Well here is the perspective i am looking at it from.

We haven't really a complaint about it but instead, make a joke about it.

DE as a designer bad fault and producer/seller of the product are at fault but we as the consumer/user/reviewer are also at fault.

Look at it this way if a company makes there bag biodegradable so that they are easy to decompose and much better for the environment, but the consumer chooses not to buy the bags because they are too loud, it doesn't matter the green choice company has made because nobody wants it. (this is a real-life case lookup lays potato chips biodegradable bags)

Applying the reverse of it, as we who are using multiple products just ignore the lack of quality and maybe i am wrong but the attention procs and elemental damage get is little as we just accept it. As such DE will reflect is consumer.

Is beneficial for us to have things that bypass shields, so why would people complain about shield?... And as such we have so many methods to deal with shields more effectively why would we bother with magnetic procs? So to summarize our lack of care for the situation, of most users has contributed to this as we are also at fault.

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Just my two cents.

Powercreep makes status moot.

The only thing status is really used for is stacking to buff Condition overload.

When you have a hammer than can hit for 10million damage...... status is irrelevant. Stuff just dies

 

Make status mean something again.

 

I do like the idea of shields preventing status procs tho. and magnetic damage being the counter to it.
it makes sense that if you are shielded from damage you are also shielded from that damages affects.... 

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@0_The_F00ll

So here is the situation i am not against your reasoning, i am tackling it from the view of what is more likely to pass. However as the thread is fixing magnetic because that also needs fixing not just shields, i will gravitate to discussing making magnetic better as when i looked at what is more likely to be supported more, it would be us having more options then being tide down.

@(PS4)thegarada

I do understand that you are saying because if shields were more of a threat we would have more use for magnetic procs. Armor's biggest attribute is that even if the damage type used against that armor that supposedly suppose to do more damage is also reduced greatly because that is what armor does lower damage received by a percentage. However, we shouldn't aim to make shields as forceful as armor comparing them especially with the way they work as armor is a buff to health. However, armor still needs a good look at as well.

What we could work as a compromise with is make shields deal with Elemental Damage with the negation of procs, and i don't want to say apply logic but slash & fire proc, for example, shouldn't apply until you work your way through shields...  We can also add corrosive to this list ki it doesn't make sense either... If you are corroding shields you are basically doing damage over time it should not be removing armor protected behind the shield....

We can also add crits to the list of things... What part of an energy shield would be the critical spot? How are they receiving critical damage?if we are hitting the right spot or the weakness of shield being it should be damage multiplier not a crit... Since we are hitting tech that originates from the user.

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55 minutes ago, Leavith said:

Well here is the perspective i am looking at it from.

We haven't really a complaint about it but instead, make a joke about it.

DE as a designer bad fault and producer/seller of the product are at fault but we as the consumer/user/reviewer are also at fault.

Look at it this way if a company makes there bag biodegradable so that they are easy to decompose and much better for the environment, but the consumer chooses not to buy the bags because they are too loud, it doesn't matter the green choice company has made because nobody wants it. (this is a real-life case lookup lays potato chips biodegradable bags)

Applying the reverse of it, as we who are using multiple products just ignore the lack of quality and maybe i am wrong but the attention procs and elemental damage get is little as we just accept it. As such DE will reflect is consumer.

Is beneficial for us to have things that bypass shields, so why would people complain about shield?... And as such we have so many methods to deal with shields more effectively why would we bother with magnetic procs? So to summarize our lack of care for the situation, of most users has contributed to this as we are also at fault.

We are not fault here because the community, including the youtubers, have been vocal about these issues for a long time. It is DE who is at fault here. 

Fire used to be the trashiest of the elemental types for as long as I can remember. DE finally made it good with the Ember rework after much complaints. I don't see why other damage types can't see the same treatment.

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Magnetic would have to become a powerhouse elemental effect to overpower virals health halving + slash's true damaging or corrosive/heat's armor melting utility. Like something really good. Shield vamp was my suggestion for a defensive status proc that would provide a lifestrike like effect to shields that provides more of a cushion. I posted the suggestion earlier in the thread. It's honestly the only way i would even consider using magnetic damage over the other two. It has to be good or no one will use it.

28 minutes ago, Anthraxicus said:

Fire used to be the trashiest of the elemental types for as long as I can remember. DE finally made it good with the Ember rework after much complaints. I don't see why other damage types can't see the same treatment.

Indeed. It came with a WF rework. Hopefully it does not take them revisiting mag to fix the magnetic elemental proc.

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3 minutes ago, Anthraxicus said:

We are not fault here because the community, including the youtubers, have been vocal about these issues for a long time. It is DE who is at fault here. 

Fire used to be the trashiest of the elemental types for as long as I can remember. DE finally made it good with the Ember rework after much complaints. I don't see why other damage types can't see the same treatment.

Let's leave it as agree to disagree, YouTuber represent themselves and there opinion not the player base unless the content they do is based specifically on what the player base are talking about.

Let me give you an example most warframe YouTubers are presenting on news, updates, walkthrough, and builds... Also fashion frame. The consideration to give is that the discussion i always hear about magnetic procs is that of satire. If something is funny why i end it... DE probably has judge two ideas one is not a priority because the players aren't treating it as priority or change. We already have future plans. Finally isn't consider important enough by the community( evidence we look up the threads date of discussion of magnetic damage and procs that have some analytical view of the situation and see how often and how far apart they are from each)

A YouTuber that present on the player opinion would be one that looks through the forum and as they play they do it as a podcast discussion talking about what the forum says.

Any YouTuber identified itself to providing latest content is one whose works is valuable because is the latest content, there opinion of it is why we choose to watch them over another, but the opinion they have isn't the players but there distaste. Now,  why would DE use there opinion if is not the popular one according to the forum.

In fact i would hypothesis that fire rework happen because Ember had rework. Ember needed a rework of fire because is the most prominent damage type is doing.This was a must or else the rework would fail.

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hace 15 horas, Diangelius dijo:

Would be nice if Magnetic proc had extended duration to 8 or 10s, and it could disable skills usage of some mobs and bosses, such as Nullifiers' bubble, Commando's switch teleport, Hellion's aerial bombard, Shield Osprey's shield boost, or even disable all Eximus variants' exclusive auras, etc.

 

hace 5 horas, Anthraxicus dijo:

I like the idea of making enemies attract each other. Would help Mag a bit.

I second these two ideas

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This thread has hit the nail on the head for all of my issues with magnetic damage.

Honestly, my biggest problem with it* is that so many other damage types can be useful against other enemies. Electric, Blast and Gas are still AoE, viral still halves health, and I'm very happy using all of these against Grineer. (And Corrosive, of course. Everyone likes Corrosive. Very good on everything I own.) And even if those AoE elements aren't that useful, it's still fun to use them just for laughs.

But I can't even say that about Magnetic. 

The best idea I've seen so far, I think, was having Magnetic disrupt enemy abilities. If it screws with our abilities, why not theirs? It'd still be outclassed, but at least I wouldn't be deliberately trying to avoid using Mesa on Grineer to avoid getting a Kuva weapon I'll hate. At least there'd be a niche.

 

*Alternatively, my biggest problem might actually be that there's like three ways to just bypass it. I could use toxin, gas, or slash... but that's beside the point.

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2 hours ago, Leavith said:

Let's leave it as agree to disagree, YouTuber represent themselves and there opinion not the player base unless the content they do is based specifically on what the player base are talking about.

Let me give you an example most warframe YouTubers are presenting on news, updates, walkthrough, and builds... Also fashion frame. The consideration to give is that the discussion i always hear about magnetic procs is that of satire. If something is funny why i end it... DE probably has judge two ideas one is not a priority because the players aren't treating it as priority or change. We already have future plans. Finally isn't consider important enough by the community( evidence we look up the threads date of discussion of magnetic damage and procs that have some analytical view of the situation and see how often and how far apart they are from each)

A YouTuber that present on the player opinion would be one that looks through the forum and as they play they do it as a podcast discussion talking about what the forum says.

Any YouTuber identified itself to providing latest content is one whose works is valuable because is the latest content, there opinion of it is why we choose to watch them over another, but the opinion they have isn't the players but there distaste. Now,  why would DE use there opinion if is not the popular one according to the forum.

In fact i would hypothesis that fire rework happen because Ember had rework. Ember needed a rework of fire because is the most prominent damage type is doing.This was a must or else the rework would fail.

You realize Vauban had a rework with many ideas presented by Youtubers, right? The same goes for Ember. That heat meter Ember has right now was a suggestion on Youtube. 
Also, I mentioned in my post that Fire got a rework because of Ember's rework, which has been a complaint for a long time. As a matter of fact, you don't need to hypothesize anything, because DE said so. 
DE tried to rework IPS. The community and youtubers spoke loudly about DE's S#&$ty ideas and the whole thing got scrapped. The only thing between magnetic damage being great or lame are both DE's laziness and lack of creativity, which they don't even need to have, as many people have given them plenty of great ideas to start from.

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2 hours ago, (XB1)Fluffywolf36 said:

This thread has hit the nail on the head for all of my issues with magnetic damage.

 

There are a lot of work around the benefit of magnetic damage. If Armor didn't exist magnetic damage would likely be in the same spot of usefulness and viral would be the go to.

I do think this idea can be tackled from three side byt dealing with two things. Initially it should be that we getting an answer, then us getting benefits, and then we getting a fix.

What i mean to say is that a lot of perspective we have all make sense but we need to aim for the best method if we really care about getting our idea out. I support fix on shield and magnetic procs, but we can't just go about it like that.

First step be give magnetic procs more potential and better adjusted role.(buff it alter it but make it more appealing) making it better will let us see more value in it then just be damage.

Then second step we fix shields not just for the enemy but for us, if we make shields anti procs like we suggested or any further benefits that really hardly help us people will oppose the change and it won't help.

But the idea still works vice verse that if we say, shields now protect you from status effect until broken, shields half the damage of puncture ,   slash , and other damage type that aren't made to deal with shields ( this make them bulkier, but this meaning now warframe with lack of armor but high shields get more use out of shields), then we add some shield gating, and we can even say that besides robotic type enemies, enemies like human faction corpus users will have no shields until alerted. This may be a bit over it but with such changes we not only increase the different play styles that can exist(because we can support stealth play and all of the builds that say use shields) we also deal with shields by buffng them and buffing us. I am sure better balancing can be done by this is just an idea.

And no shield mode can be half shield and less shield Recharge rate, with longer time for shields to begin to recharge.

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Magnetic for me works best against the corpus. Radiation also works, but magnetic is by far the best over all and is what I use in index.

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@Leavith I dunno what would be the path to fix magnetic (or other procs). As it currently stands, the preferred damage method is to use viral+slash on a melee weapon and ignore enemies shield and armor. Is this working as intended? Probably not. Does something need to change? Yes. Will it change? Maybe, since DE mentioned it before. I am not too optimistic.  

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6 hours ago, Matheoryon said:

Magnetic for me works best against the corpus. Radiation also works, but magnetic is by far the best over all and is what I use in index.

This sounds like a person who never used gas or toxin against Corpus.  If you did, then you would know just how unnecessary magnetic is.  

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I may get the chip bag case wrong last time because it may have not been laying but sun chips. I am not sure where to take this thread now to be clear. If elemental damage gets worked on that's good but it should at least make it useful. If enemy shields get worked on we should also benefit from this, or people would get ticked.

I do want to add after this thread cane to the discussion that we have limitations that the event that shields get buffed it shouldn't be focused only procs of elements or we going to be hurting the weapons that focused on procs..  We gonna be stuck with a crit only era.

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19 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

This sounds like a person who never used gas or toxin against Corpus.  If you did, then you would know just how unnecessary magnetic is.  

I'd say viral works better then either toxin or gas. 

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2 hours ago, Matheoryon said:

I'd say viral works better then either toxin or gas. 

Against corpus?... They got low Hp in the first place and viral doesn't affect shields... While toxic ignore shields and gas proc triggers toxic proc that as States works around shields.

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On 2020-01-06 at 1:16 AM, Diangelius said:

Would be nice if Magnetic proc had extended duration to 8 or 10s, and it could disable skills usage of some mobs and bosses, such as Nullifiers' bubble, Commando's switch teleport, Hellion's aerial bombard, Shield Osprey's shield boost, or even disable all Eximus variants' exclusive auras, etc.

Would give me a reason to use the weapon swap mods and use combos. One thing I enjoyed about Payday 2 is bringing specific weapons for troublesome enemies and then having a 'jack of all trades' weapon for everything else. So 50cal for heavy units + pistol/smg for lower tier units, as an example. Need more combo-type stuff, and I like your idea here for magnetic procs, being able to disable special unit abilities for a period of time + eximus, that gives it a reason to be in my loadout. 

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On 2020-01-06 at 12:29 AM, Aadi880 said:

Ferrite armor has Iron in it. Why not make magnetic procs pulls enemies closer together, emulating the armor being "magnetized"? This will make it especially useful in viral + magnetic melee builds (innate corrosive would be god send).

Magnetic damage should deal 25% additional damage to ferrite armor. (not armor strip, just an increased damage dealt, so nothing of too much importance is lost).

Dude you are a genius! This is a great idea! I would like to see this in game.

Your element mixes are off. It would be viral (cold+toxin) and radiation (heat+electric), but the magnetic and gas is a wonderful combo for gas damage tics in groupings.

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1 hour ago, Leavith said:

Against corpus?... They got low Hp in the first place and viral doesn't affect shields... While toxic ignore shields and gas proc triggers toxic proc that as States works around shields.

This fine Tenno gets it.  😀 

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On 2020-01-06 at 1:20 AM, TARINunit9 said:

It's almost like Corrosive being the one damage type to rule them all, and Magnetic being useless, is intentional by DE at this point. I mean if DE really wanted to make Magnetic useful they could have made the Sentients weak to it, but nope, weak to Corrosive like everything else above level 25

my estimate is that its because they heavily depend on armor as the toughening method for enemies.  And corrosive is the anti-armor.

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10 hours ago, Leavith said:

Against corpus?... They got low Hp in the first place and viral doesn't affect shields... While toxic ignore shields and gas proc triggers toxic proc that as States works around shields.

This game is easy to a point where I can get away with any bad build and do the hardest sorties. Combination of skill and leadership, assuming my pug group isnt that bad, which is the real determining factor.

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5 hours ago, Matheoryon said:

This game is easy to a point where I can get away with any bad build and do the hardest sorties. A combination of skill and leadership, assuming my pug group isn't combination bad, which is the real determining factor.

I think we are confused here, viral isn't a bad thing to run on a build, specially in sorti where enemies are giant bullet sponges ... Stating viral is more effective than toxic and gas against corpus is the incorrectness here. If you get away with is cool, but in the overall picture the statement is wrong and I never had to really on my team or leadership skills for sorti, reason why because of a good build. Even skills can become negligible if the build and mission synchronize well. All in all, Saryn, get a good build on it we back to button pressing. Ash before bladestorm was changed button pressing... The build did the work, no team, no leadership needed, and no skills (which is why it was fixed, but proves we really don't have any clear determining factor)

14 hours ago, Filanwizard said:

my estimate is that its because they heavily depend on armor as the toughening method for enemies.  And corrosive is the anti-armor.

 Yeah, I don't think DE purposely made magnetic pointless or shields such a push around.

Because since over shields we haven't had many changes done to how shields work.

3 hours ago, Currilicious said:

Make magnetic procs immobilize enemies and drag nearby enemies towards them.

You mean immobilize like they are stuck in one spot but can still attack? Cause I can see how magnetic works with that, and as well as how they can become magnetic rods to attract similar enemies with armor or metal in them.( which would work with some infested made with technology but not the ancient they kinda are pretty,y much,h bio not tech)

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