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The Game's Themes Revolves Around Both Ninja And Samurai Aesthetics And This Time I Have Proof (Image Heavy Post)


Slurmageddon
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This is something that came up in Council chat a while ago and led to a bit of an argument (as just about every single tiny thing does) until I was eventually kinda shot down and everything was still ninja-centric but I'm still sure that it's both, if not leaning more in the direction of Samurai over ninja.

 

 

 

vvv Actual screenshot by me vvv

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And it's not just aesthetically ! Everything about the Tenno screams Samurai, right down to the founding lore of the game. Example:  "Fragments of history suggest that discipline and chivalry are the cornerstone values of the Tenno"

That's the code of basically any warrior-based class system throughout history, however if you read even just a wiki article about the Ninja clans of feudal Japan, they were saboteurs, assassins, thieves, arsonists and infiltrators. Their weapons were improvised, clever, concealable, and wherever possible: silent. These are all things that apply to some but not even close to all of the things in Warframe. 

Despite "infiltrate" "assassinate" etc. fitting the name and idea of some of our mission types the way most frames feel to play the game is more centered around the idea of "proud warriors" rather than cunning and skilled agents. Maybe that'll change if/when a stealth overhaul comes, but even then frames like Rhino will always be more samurai than ninja because their central tactic is to face their opponents head on and win by overcoming their foes with superior skill and power.

 

I mean am I crazy, and letting my imagination run riot? or have people gotten a bit hung up on using "ninja" as the buzz word of the game regardless of how well it applies to the games actual experience?

And I would like to make a major sidenote that none of this is a complaint !

Samurai history and lore is awesome and is most definitely something I feel makes the game only better, my gripe is with omitting it and using "Ninja" as a blanket term even when it doesn't apply.

Edited by Santaphrax
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Warframe focuses on Eastern philosophies and imagery. Yes, Tenno are labelled "space ninjas" and the term "space ninja" is a pretty cool selling point, but Warframe has always been labelled by the developers themselves as having Eastern traits - not just "Ninja".

Frankly I don't see why this thread needed to be in existence, but eh.

Edited by SoulEchelon
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I am as guilty as the next internet user for maybe using wikipedia a bit too much or trusting it a bit too much, I know a bit about the topic tho, and can provide a non-wikipedia based opinion, IMHO.

 

The light vs dark theme of samurai vs ninja is something that bothers me. It is an invention of western culture. The first thing people forget (or dont know at all) is that Samurai had to be BORN in a Samurai family, or BUY the title. This comes before Bushido, sword training, etc. And speaking of Bushido, the Way of the Warrior isnt and was never exclusive to Samurai. If you werent Samurai you could ignore Bushido, but that would give you shame even in the eyes of merchants (the lowest caste in feudal Japan). Ronin, dogs without owners, outcast Samurai, who had no honor left to begin with, in the eyes of society could be recruited and trained as ninja obviously. Donning black kimonos and black masks was also a popular way to divert attention from the true masterminds of assassinations, arsony, kidnap, tho the latter was so strongly embedded in feudal Japanese culture that offering hostages was common practice.

 

But I digress... Back on topic, anyone carrying a sword in feudal Japan was concerned with Bushido. There is no way around it, unless you include peasants in the equation. Not that they could even possess a sword mind you, but in case they wanted to risk their lives and their families' by having one, they could ignore Bushido, as having a sword doesnt make you a warrior. But to be able to deserve  sword, no way around it, the Way of the Sword is the Way of the Warrior.

 

Lastly, chivalry, honor, and other WESTERN conceptions of what a knight were pretty different to feudal Japanese warriors and clans. Not that knights were chivalrious and honorable, but the powers that were needed to justify the absurd expenses of those men, so painting them as armored saints helped in that.

 

So while ninja could infiltrate, lie, deceive, kidnap, murder, arson, etc... So could and so did Samurai. Not all lives harvested by a Samurai's sword had to be in fair, honrable combat. If a peasant sneezed in the presence of a Samurai it could be taken as disrespect as they would be sliced in half more often than not.

 

Edit: One last thing about "silent" weapons... All feudal Japanese weapons WERE silent, gunpowder and firearms were brought to Japan by foreigners. And it was the end of the Samurai era.

Edited by Dogoframe
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I can see samurai in this but hosently i dont think it matters if they aren't pointing it out. I think they will work in more ninja aspects but to me, "space ninja" is a better attention grab than "space samurai" and i never felt cheated on being a ninja becuase enough is already implemented in the fast pace and parkour abilities to give that feel.

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That's the code of basically any warrior-based class system throughout history, however if you read even just a wiki article about the Ninja clans of feudal Japan, they were saboteurs, assassins, thieves, arsonists and infiltrators. Their weapons were improvised, clever, concealable, and wherever possible: silent. These are all things that apply to some but not even close to all of the things in Warframe.

 

And you have not read that Wiki article. It clearly states that Shinobi were mercenaries who also fought in open combat and in battle.

 

Not all of their weapons were improvised. They used swords (including the Katana), Spears and Bows (about 2m long ones). Shinobi used equipment that suited their mission,

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DE has stated numerous times that they pull from cultures and history around the world. Ninja's were just an original idea that stuck as the catch phrase to get people in the door. Now I'm not saying this is a problem, just that it shouldn't be assumed the whole game lives up to the idea of "ninjas", especially not with how lacking the stealth system is.

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Ninjas Play Free

Samurai Play ???

Ninjas are actually rogue samurai, so technically they're the same thing, one just prefers to stay in the shadows and one likes to show his power on the battlefield.

 

Ninjas play free (free = knife to your throat so you better let them play free)

Samurais play free (free = get their shogun to execute you if you don't let them play free)

 

 

This is 50% Ninja, 30% Samurai, 10% Hunter, 5% Skill, 5% Pain

And 100% reason to remember the Tenno

 

 

This is 50% Ninja, 30% Samurai, 10% Hunter, 5% Skill, 5% Pain

And 100% reason to remember the Tenno Game.

Edited by DragonSage
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